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5:00 PM
@Fluttershy I didn't.
But @Fluttershy The middle mouse wheel is your friend. The game will pick what it thinks you want to do but cycling that will cycle your options if you have any
@Fluttershy You used to, you do not any more
@James Oh. Well... I still started with a pistol then because my character was saved from the older version. =P
@OrigamiRobot If you have nothing than fear nothing. That is my best suggestion. You can go through and learn the zombies abilities with out much fear.
@James Okay, so if the middle mouse wheel has a picture of a rifle with three magazines under it, what do I press to make it do whatever?
I spent an hour just trying to figure out how to move something from the ground to my inventory
Back to work.....
5:02 PM
@OrigamiRobot When I lost my first ghillie suit I just went into the closest towns and started dancing with the zombies to learn their ranges for sight and sound a bit better.
@Fluttershy You can press the middle mouse button to activate that selection or just open your inventory (which for some reason Iw ant to say is the G key?)
@James And... How do I like... Toggle the zoomed aim?
@Fluttershy If you have a gun that lets you do a bit of zoom its right right mouse button
For normal peer in and out I believe its - and + on the num pad
That is what I use the headset for though so I am rusty on those
@fbueckert My guess is it is about SEO rather than rep whoring.
5:08 PM
@bwarner For the linked site? Huh. I didn't think of that.
@James But how does the headset help with that? How does a motion tracker track your wanting to open something?
@fbueckert Yah, I would assume the user is associated with that site. He didn't list it in his profile, or I'd probably flag it as spam.
@Fluttershy Um, you asked about zoomed aiming :P
@MatthewReas To borrow a legal distinction, your question did not have evidende, it had testimony, which is the exact distinction that I'm talking about. Though I will say that your stubbornness in being unable to make this distinction is, to date, the best argument you've made. — LessPop_MoreFizz 2 mins ago
Too harsh?
@James Well... How does that help you zoom? Do you just... Look harder?
5:10 PM
@Fluttershy Move your head closer and you zoom in
@LessPop_MoreFizz I would say yes.
The last sentence is nothing more than a personal attack.
It's a personal attack aimed at a personal argument.
@LessPop_MoreFizz It's an unnecessary personal attack that paints you in a bad light, and I wouldn't be surprised if it got flagged as rude/offensive.
@LessPop_MoreFizz Personally, I don't think we should be re-opening the discussion, even with hard evidence to identify the game. If someone already HAS a screenshot, chances are EXTREMELY good they already know which game it's from.
@LessPop_MoreFizz I don't know what evidende is!
5:14 PM
@fueckert you're not comprehending why someone would ask this sort of question and associating them too strongly with old ITG.
@Oak You're entirely missing the point of the sort of question we're looking to allow. The whole point is that it's not about remembering anything. So yes, the number of people seeking to remember the name of a game they have a screenshot is is very small. The point of allowing these questions is to allow people to identify artifacts that they encounter in other media. Which, in turn, resolves your problem number two of a lack of textual clarity/searchability. Once the source of the artifact is cited textually, the question becomes very searchable. — LessPop_MoreFizz yesterday
@sterno phonetyping FTL.
Q: Can't train up 'Restoration' for some reason

JagdI found that once I hit 'Master' status with my restoration spells it was easier to just fork out gold and train it up 5 times with each time that I leveled. I know for certain that I'd done this with two of my character levels (ie - I'd go to the restoration trainer and train my restoration skil...

And on that note, phone dying, see you guys later.
@LessPop_MoreFizz And that's the thing. If a user finds a screenshot, almost guaranteed, there will be context behind it to identify where it's from. In rare cases, like that Breaking Bad one, it's a sidenote. And there is no guarantee whatsoever that anything shown in cases like that is even from a real game.
@LessPop_MoreFizz Since the blanket ban on ITG questions, we've still been getting ITG questions. Do you honestly thing making that one tiny addendum to the rule is going to improve the site? Requests for game identification, with or without a screenshot, are bad questions.
@Fluttershy THIS THIS THIS
5:18 PM
@fluttershy in what way are thru bad beyond their superficial similarity to a banned class though?
Memory based ITG has real concrete problems. These questions do not share them.
To date, nobody has countered that argument directly, instead claiming that this opens the floodgates to bad questions.
Goddamnit I need to stop trying to respond rapidly and in detail from my phone.
@LessPop_MoreFizz It's like @fbueckert says. The odds of someone being able to provide a screenshot and still need to have it identified for them are very slim. It would be easier to continue the blanket ban on requests for game identification based on the fact that these types of questions you're arguing to allow are going to be a vast, vast minority in the grand scheme of new users seeing that we allow requests for game identification.
@LessPop_MoreFizz How often are we going to encounter questions like the Breaking Bad one where A) it's a real game, B) enough data is provided to be able to tell which game it is, and C) there's no context behind it to allow the watcher to identify it on their own.
@fluttershy you're sidestepping it again.
Someone's gonna pop in here, see , and it's going to go to shit.
The whole point is that this is not a big category.
@fbueckert we've had several in the past.
5:22 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz Examples?
The linked chocoholic racing question. One I can't go searching for about police quest that's deleted.
Phone is at 3% now. Enjoy the last word. Maybe you could actually directly address the argument for once. That'd be nice. Nobody had yet.
Because your argument is not worth arguing in the grand scheme of game identification, honestly. And if you're going to continue being abrasive, I'm going to choose not to continue any discussion with you.
@Fluttershy I'm trying to find the actual argument. I must be blind. Help?
Q: How do you make your java game available for others to play?

HeisenburgI've been making a java game just for fun, and am now wondering how I make it available for others to use? For instance, how to make an icon on my desktop so that it runs when I click it or make it available online for people to play.

insert coin
5:26 PM
I really hate the slippery slope argument
@fbueckert He wants to allow requests for game identification if, and only if, they provide a screenshot. It's pointless. You and @Oak have both noted that the likelihood of someone still needing it identified after being able to provide a screenshot are very slim.
Can we all get a little less personal here?
@Fluttershy Clearly, such a thing has happened
Why should we disallow a question type just because there aren't likely to be many of them?
@Sterno Indeed; the Breaking Bad question.
@Sterno Yeah. It has. And y'know what? They were closed and deleted along with all the other ITG questions.
5:27 PM
They could just ask in chat, that way they get an answer, but not rep.
The exception being LessPop's special case for his argument.
I think you're focusing too much on the specific exception criteria
And I don't have 10K, so I can't see those questions to understand the context.
humm, I spent this whole time thinking evidiende was fancy latin
In the case of the Breaking Bad question, it's a clearly answerable question. Screenshot or no. The screenshot could have been skipped, and if you gave the episode number, people could still answer it
It doesn't have any of the problems the typical ITG had
5:29 PM
@Sterno I answered it before the screenshot was edited in, so ye
I think we're just caught up on the fact that ITG is a thing that previously existed. We're way too scared about "Zomg, it might upon the floodgates for it to come back!"
It seems kind of silly.
@Sterno This has been beaten to death. There were several old ITG questions that were closed and deleted that "didn't have any of the problems the typical ITG had." It was determined then that these few good questions were not enough to salvage the category. Thus, the blanket ban.
I feel that you're all judging @LessPop_MoreFizz's point based on your previous feelings regarding ITG rather than understanding the nuances of what he's saying
@Sterno There is no "might." It will.
@Fluttershy Please cite your source.
and get me the lottery numbers for next week's drawing while you're at it
5:30 PM
@Sterno Cite my source? ITG has been banned for months and we still get shit ITG questions. People see [game-identification] as a tag, and the floodgates will open.
isn't it fine to draw from experience?
@DavidB Sure. Care to quantify the impact it will have? 1 extra ITG a week? 2? 300?
How big is this flood that we're holding back?
Is it a problem that a good tag wiki can't solve?
@Sterno Honestly, probably none. People still ask for ITG's and Game rec's, because They. Don't. Read. And don't care. This is their problem, and they want it solved, rules be damned.
@Sterno one hundred million
Here's the thing. It seems like we're pretending no one will understand the distinction between "Hey, there was this game on this TV show (or whatever). Here's the source. What game was that?" and "Hey, guys, remember that game with that guy who had a gun and shot stuff? I think maybe the gun was blue? What game was it?"
5:35 PM
@Sterno There's still the argument that the game being played is fake. And there is no way to prove it does not exist.
@fbueckert Well, to be fair if you see a games Q&A site you won't assume that a question specifically about a game is off-topic (granted, they should read the FAQ but it is non-obvious if you haven't read that imho)
The big difference is the first case has a clearly correct answer that can be verified. it isn't "this is right only for the guy who asked"
@fbueckert It's hard to prove any negative. But saying, "I've looked into this and I'm pretty sure that's just some game they made up 20 seconds of that doesn't really exist" is a valid answer
Kind of like that awesome Unix UI in Jurassic Park
Solution #2: Migrate such questions to Movies & TV.SE :)
@Sterno Migrate all our ITG's to TV.SE? Genius!
By the way, for the record, I was very much against ITGs. But it was because they couldn't have concrete answers.
@fbueckert or if it's a sci-fi or fantasy game, migrate to sci-fi. They'll take anything there! :)
@Sterno Solution $3: Continue the blanket ban on requests for game identifcation and save everyone future headaches by arguing what is and isn't a request for game identification (especially when the question in... question... starts with "What game is")
5:39 PM
@Fluttershy Like we're ever going to stop arguing on here. :P
If we allow the exception, we ARE going to get the slippery slope arguments of, "Well, it's KIND of a screenshot. Cut the new user some slack."
@James That bit where you say you'd like to find diamonds, that worked for me.
And that's the problem with opening up one exception. It really IS a slippery slope.
@RonanForman haha, I thought Id id well finding a few diamonds but not compared to Golui :D
I guess my main point is that I think this whole concept of "Floodgates! Future headaches! Chaos!" is overblown. And the whole Screenshot or GTFO thing is missing the point. Either a question is truly answerable, or it's a guessing game. And it's usually pretty easy to tell which one it is.
5:40 PM
@James I hate him so much.
Is it useful for some asker to post a minecraft screenshot and ask what game it is?
@RonanForman lol
@DavidB In that case, the question would be, "Where did you get this and how did it not tell you it was minecraft?"
@James He killed me.
I still think chat is the best place to ask these.
@RonanForman As he should have you backstabber! :D
5:41 PM
@fbueckert watching random stuff on youtube maybe
@DavidB Which should SOMETHING somewhere noting it's Minecraft.
Even if it's a different random user going, "What game is this?", and someone answers, "lol. minecraft, noob."
@fbueckert so, maybe there is and the asker didn't see it. or maybe there isn't. doesn't it matter for the useful-ness of the question?
I mean, here's a quick case of why just "Oh, it's got a screenshot? It's fine then!" is no good
@DavidB The point is, it's going to be EXTREMELY rare for someone to yank a screenshot like that, and NOT know where it's from.
What game is that, guys?!
5:43 PM
@Sterno It's DOS.
@Sterno ...I loled.
@Sterno Men in Black.
@sterno that's called troll the bridge
While loading.
@Sterno Yeah. But your messiahs are arguing that that would be allowed.
Also, it is clearly Amnesia.
5:43 PM
Doom 3, with my flashlight off!
@Sterno Nuh uh! It's got a cursor in the corner! No HUD! It can't be Doom 3!
@fbueckert is the question useful?
@DavidB I'd argue that any gamer who doesn't know what Minecraft is at this point has been living in a cave, or worse, without internet, for the last several years.
Hell, I know what Minecraft is, and I have never played it.
So, you say the question isn't useful, because "everyone knows". fine.
@fbueckert I don't know what Minecraft is
5:46 PM
@DavidB That's using Minecraft as an example.
@pixel You're strange. You don't count. :P
sure, I'm thinking of another example.
how rude.
@fbueckert I don't think that is good reasoning. Just because it's obvious to you doesn't make it a bad question
I'd actually be quite curious if you could pull a screenshot from somewhere and not find the name of it somewhere where you pulled it from.
@murgatroid99 That was a jokingly ad hominem argument. :P And yes, I agree, that doesn't make it a bad question.
5:48 PM
@fbueckert I really meant your previous argument, as paraphrased by @DavidB
@murgatroid99 Derp. Bad writing.
I meant that yes, it's a bad example, since Minecraft is obvious to me. I was agreeing with you on that.
@pixel No idea. But I bet you know.
no I went on the skynetgoogles and searched for 'random game that @fbueckert doesn't know'
ok, I'm watching a video of someone's favorite 2D Sonic stages on Youtube, but he doesn't identify which Sonic game the stage is in. Is it useful to ask on arQAde?
I got a super ambiguous screenshot labelled as 'client'
I suspect that nobody here can name it, making it valid ITG
5:51 PM
@RonanForman Notice that the screenshots for most of those have a description that says what it is? :P Those that don't, I can bet almost anything they'll be described in the article where the screenshot is from.
/me raises a question
I think the 'problem you face' rule comes in here. What difference does it make to you whether you know what game it is?
I want to buy it
and play it
@RonanForman That's the whole point of the exception we're trying to discuss here.
@pixel Do you want to make a point or know what game it is?
5:52 PM
i know what the game is, it soaked up most of my childhood quite effortlessly
@DavidB Based on a screenshot?
@RonanForman the screenshot could be the information provided for identification, not all information the asker has about the game
@RonanForman if that's my only exposure to the game, then sure
the point is that @fbueckert said that whenever you find a screenshot you would also find the game name
whilst taking screenshots with FRAPS named the screenshot with the executable name
which is client.exe
and that screenshot was off a photo gallery labelled 'gaming'
thus disproving his point
@murgatroid99 The only way we've found to get a screenshot without knowing the name is googling 'game screenshot'.
5:54 PM
back in my Sonic example, I may know I like Sonic games and I want to play the one with the mystery screenshot
@pixel I said rarely. I did not say never.
@pixel ok. I cant read all the Chat, Internet in switzerland is like the wild West.
@RonanForman what if instead of a screenshot it was a video that never mentioned the name of the game
But I bet you had to specifically look to find screenshots that you couldn't find context for.
@murgatroid99 Youtube comments.
5:55 PM
@fbueckert my usual next comment would result in us getting stuck in a loop for a bit, I will not make this comment this time
I actually searched for 'cyberpunk third person mmo'
@RonanForman right, let's trust YouTube comments as a valuable and consistent source of information </sarcasm>
which is exactly what I would do if I was searching for a screenshot of a cyberpunk third person MMO
@murgatroid99 Or the bridge, just not a question, they don't deserve rep for an ITG question.
@pixel Would you mind linking where you found that? I'd actually be interested in seeing how hard it would be to find context for that.
@RonanForman see, that's a completely different concern. Whether someone deserves rep for something is independent of whether it is OK to ask on the site.
5:56 PM
well no I don't mind, but I have no browsing history
so sigh, minutes please
What if the User has less than 20 rep? @ronan
Didn't we decide the were too localised? Seeing as they only help one person ever.
this is the internet, there are contextless images everywhere
@DavidB First shot identifies the game as a Sonic game. Which narrows the search dramatically.
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