The Nineteenth Byte

Skidsdev

00:00

I think Clam is the only one of my languages that handles floats at all

Oh cool Clam is broken on TIO

well anyway 1/0 in Clam

user

4

lyxal

maybe the marker can't give extra credit points, hence "if"

user

🤔 Then why didn’t you?

Skidsdev

meybe there are strict criteria under which they can grant extra credit points

user

@lyxal Well he made the assignment so he has control over that

Skidsdev

00:04

granting extra credit might be controlled by faculty above him

user

@Skidsdev idk if they can give extra credit points at all but he could’ve given me 100%

10/15 is like a D

@Skidsdev This is a Canvas course at a school, so no restrictions like that here. I’m assuming it’s a typo, will talk to him tomorrow lol

lyxal

@user Canvas? Is it any good?

Because I'm pretty sure that's what my uni is switching to next year

caird coinheringaahing

Damn, your uni teaches one of dzaima's esoteric langs?

lyxal

Next year

We're still using blackboard this year. No esolang till next year :p

Wezl

00:30

my school system's switching to canvas too (next year)

lyxal

@Wezl what do you currently use?

Wezl

gOoGlE cLaSsRoOm

except this one teacher who's "doing us a favor" by switching early and it's really inconvenient (the inconsistency not canvas)

lyxal

@Wezl oof

I've had to use quite a few different LMS in my time

Echo, iLearn, Blackboard, and probably a few others

but luckily I've never had to endure google classrooms

Skidsdev

00:44

My wife's uni had their own bespoke system

Unrelated String

i think mine does too

although some of my classes aren't using it much

Skidsdev

I wish SEChat showed message notifications in the favicon as well as the page title, I use vertical tabs so I only see favicons unless I mouse over the tab bar

anyone know if there's a userscript for that?

Bubbler

I always thought favicon can't be made dynamic, but I was wrong

but I guess you'd need to write one yourself for that

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Wave square, Unicode Calendar Generator, Can all the pearls be collected? [code-golf][decision-problem][game][grid]

Adám

@Skidsdev I get a blue blob on the favicon when SEChat is pinned in FF.

Skidsdev

@Adám yeah firefox does that with pinned tabs if their title changes. I used to do the same, but I don't use FF anymore

lets try pinning the tab anyway and see if Edge does a similar thing

Bubbler

New Posts is offline again?

0

Q: Self-referential triangle sequence

Output the flattened version of the sequence A297359, which starts like the following: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3, 3, 1, 2, 4, 6, 4, 2, 1, 6, 10, 10, 6, 1, 1, 7, 16, 20, 16, 7, 1, 3, 8, 23, 36, 36, 23, 8, 3, 3, 11, 31, 59, 72, 59, 31, 11, 3, 1, 14, 42, 90, 131, 131, 90, 42, 14, 1,... ----------------...

Skidsdev

Edge does not do a similar thing

@Bubbler your pascal's triangle is wrong. The outer-most numbers are always 1s, yours has a row that reads 2, 4, 6, 4, 2

Bubbler

01:15

It is not a Pascal's triangle

Please read to the bottom

Skidsdev

Oh I misread, generated like a pascal's triangle

user

@lyxal Integration with Google stuff isn’t great but overall it’s better than Google Classroom

Integrated inbox, easier way to see comments on submissions, and pandas

thejonymyster

01:39

challenge idea: print an ascii golden rectangle

like given n, draw n units of it, starting with a 3x3 box

so this, basically

specifically going to state that direction does not need be consistent so long as the output is correctly shaped

Bubbler

02:00

Conceptually close but we didn't have that exact version so far, and yours would be cleaner to golf because we don't get multi-digit nonsense

Also related

thejonymyster

thats why it didnt show up in search, i typed "rectangle"

graphical output makes that a completely unrelated challenge as far as programming goes i think

unless i dont know nothin :P

@Bubbler as for this one, hm

Skidsdev

I don't like ascii art golfing :(

thejonymyster

lol

ok, then i wont post this :)

Skidsdev

I mean don't hold back on my account, I'm sure other people have no issue with ascii art challenges

It's an interesting challenge, I just personally don't like ascii art challenges so I skip them

lyxal

^

I don't particularly enjoy solving ascii art, but that doesn't mean I don't upvote

Skidsdev

02:12

ugh, there are some braingolf operators I'm really not looking forward to re-implementing

lyxal

You're doing a rewrite of it?

Skidsdev

> D - pops the entire stack, pushes every permutation of the stack as a new stack

yeah, the old python3 interpreter is literal hell and riddled with bugs, so I'm starting over

it was both the first python project and the first interpreter I ever wrote to be fair

originally I even used semicolons. I eventually removed them when Dennis protested

lyxal

@Skidsdev I get what you mean

How many built-ins does braingolf have?

thejonymyster

@Skidsdev actually, all challenges should be presented to you first before being accepted :P

Skidsdev

@lyxal 48 operators; symbols that "do things", plus 5 modifiers; symbols that modify the way the next operator behaves, plus 11 flow control characters

It's a little bit of a mess :/

and of course that stacks permutations operator was trivial in python because I just used itertools, JS has no such convenience

SO to the rescue!

lyxal

02:25

@Skidsdev heh that's not too bad

Imagine how it'd be if you had a whole custom code page to re-implement

thejonymyster

how to i write "n by n" for the actual challenge

is nxn ok

or is it n x n

im over thinking this but i dont know how loosely im allowed to write the challenge lol

Bubbler

You can just write "n by n"

or if you wanna go fancy then n×n or \$n \times n\$

thejonymyster

lol

ty

Skidsdev

@lyxal there's a good reason I didn't bother with a custom code page for braingolf

thejonymyster

02:50

Oh wait, for the golden rectangle: should i require it be like the spiral?

Because you can still form a rectangle shape without actually ordering the squares like a spiral

example

W D

I’m not sure

is that even 1:1.618???

Or am I just missing something

caird coinheringaahing

Well, it's ascii-art, so no

W D

Oh wait yes I am missing something

thejonymyster

the whitespace inside each square is fibonacci n x n

but the border makes it bigger

W D

It’s a little off too

Yeah, the +s are counted

so it’s not even a fibonnaci “approximate golden rectangle”

thejonymyster

02:53

oh, wait

that changes it a lot HAHA

W D

Like the 3rd smallest square

thejonymyster

sheeiiitt

W D

or something

should be 1x2

but its 3x3

thejonymyster

right, hell

W D

Pls

lyxal

02:54

@Skidsdev can confirm that re-implmenting ~240 built-ins isn't the most fun thing

thejonymyster

idk what to call this then, because it is consistent

W D

A golden rectangle +1

because +1

thejonymyster

lol

W D

you add 1 extra (by accident)

thejonymyster

but the next square is + 2

1 1 (2+1) (3+2)

W D

02:55

Ok maybe “golden rectangle + T_(n/2)” ???

T_(n/2) = (n/2)*(n/2 + 1) * 1/2

Idk I’m just guessing at strings here

Skidsdev

@lyxal I'm guessing, based both on your name and your aggressive war with aaron that you made Vyxal?

lyxal

@lyxal ight fine I lied. It's only 228

thejonymyster

yea this is kinda boned

lyxal

@Skidsdev ;P correct

@Skidsdev also, it was a three way war with Aaron, emanresuA and me

W D

thejonymyster

02:58

i think ill just post it in sandbox with the meta note saying "Note: This actually isnt the fibonacci sequence, since each new square is offset by the borders of the previous squares. How can i resolve this?"

since the challenge itself is pretty clear, its just a matter of properly phrasing it

W D

Um

ok

emanresu A

@Bubbler REEEDDWOOOLLLLFFFFFF!1!!11!!11!11!11

W D

Ping? @RedwolfPrograms

hyper-neutrino

F

emanresu A

It worked!

W D

03:01

Yay

hyper-neutrino

hm?

emanresu A

(Totally not a coincedence)

hyper-neutrino

what worked

emanresu A

Oh wait, did you boot up your copies of the bots?

hyper-neutrino

yes :P

W D

03:03

Huh

how can you have bot copies

hyper-neutrino

the bot is just a normal account and whoever has the credentials can run a chatbot on it

i have a copy of redwolf's code and his bots' credentials

W D

Okay

emanresu A

@emanresuA (In my new language, that means multiply by 19675, create a range of that length, and take the natural logarithm of each)

Skidsdev

@hyper-neutrino wait redwolf made the bots?

hyper-neutrino

yes

we got tired of the feeds being too slow so new main posts, new meta posts, and new sandbox posts are now done via two bots that watch the websocket for new posts since SE chat RSS scans very infrequently

Sandbox Posts

03:06

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make an ASCII Golden Rectangle While this challenge does involve making a golden rectangle, we're going to do something a bit different. Task Given an input n, using +s, |s, -s, spaces and newlines, generate a grid of n squares that form a golden rectangle. Rules Each square of your rectangle mu...

lyxal

very cool butter bot

W D

Here’s a command: emacs C-x M-c M-butterfly -r -e -a -d -m -y -m -i -n -d it summons a butterfly that creates tiny wavelengths. That then disturbs the hospital’s top secret mind reading machine and then uses it to read your mind and do the command that is in your head

you can use that command to instantly fix bots btw

Skidsdev

@hyper-neutrino were the bots always his? I remember the bots being around back in 2017 when I joined, but I don't remember redwolf. My memory isn't exactly reliable though. I could just be an idiot

hyper-neutrino

@Skidsdev they were only relatively recently replaced with chatbot accounts. back in 2017 they still would've been built-in RSS feeds

Skidsdev

ah gotcha

DLosc

03:10

CMQ: Should (-1) mod 10 be -1 or 9?

W D

9

Skidsdev

I remember depending on the day they were either very quick to post or took quite a while, so RSS feeds makes sense

W D

0 <= a mod K < K

maths

like 9 mod 10 wouldn’t be -1

unless you’re doing congruence or something

thejonymyster

concurring 9, i think any mod that does the weird negative thing should be clearly notated as a separate command

signedmod or something

caird coinheringaahing

@Skidsdev Yeah, nowadays the challenge is to get New Posts or New Sandbox Posts to post something with a score greater than 0 :P

and I mean "post", not "edit to", hyper :P

lyxal

03:12

@DLosc if in doubt, ask apl

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing i was just about to mention that

lyxal

10 | ¯1
9

caird coinheringaahing

:P

hyper-neutrino

why are you still up at (i think it's) 4

caird coinheringaahing

Because my brain seems to think that sleep is the enemy

emanresu A

03:13

@cairdcoinheringaahing Returns an empty string

W D

@thejonymyster maybe “Nearly Fibonnaci Golden Rectangle” ???

thejonymyster

i mean for the title, sure

the actual rules are the real issue

DLosc

@WD @thejonymyster @lyxal I agree! But Scala doesn't. :P

Skidsdev

@DLosc Braingolf, aka python, agrees that it is 9

W D

@DLosc how doesn’t it? I don’t do Scala so I have no idea

thejonymyster

03:14

i guess you could quick fix it by checking for a negative output and adding 10

W D

Um

what about -101 mod 10

DLosc

@thejonymyster I'm writing a function to do that right now

thejonymyster

@WD that will return -1, which you can add 10 to to get 9

if it doesnt, then the mod function just doesnt support negatives XD

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino 4:15 to be exact. At least that's what github refined tells me

DLosc

@WD Even more shocking is that Julia, a language that's a lot more angled toward math, also does it wrong: Try it online!

hyper-neutrino

03:16

well i was just too lazy to include that but yes 4:15 (well actually, 4:16 now)

W D

QUICK FIX
For mod
Function mod_returns_pos
If LEFT is negative
Return mod_returns_pos ( negative 1 * LEFT, RIGHT )
Otherwise
Return builtin_mod( LEFT, RIGHT )

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I think you'll find its 4:17

Skidsdev

@WD python3/braingolf still says 9

W D

actually, it’s 16:17

lyxal

Jelly says 9

DLosc

03:18

@WD That doesn't work, though, right? It'll give 1 instead of 9

thejonymyster

@WD so -1 mod 10 =... 1?

yeah ahah

W D

Oops

Skidsdev

@lyxal Jelly also runs on python afaik

W D

lol

oof

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing no, my clock says 4:18

W D

03:18

16:18

not 4:18

Skidsdev

uh it's actually 23:18

lyxal

05AB1E says 9

W D

For me it’s 14:18

thejonymyster

@WD ooh, golden ratio

hyper-neutrino

no I actually mean 4:18

W D

03:18

OI STOP WITH THE language says 9

thejonymyster

but with the ratio bar moved a bit

emanresu A

It's 4:18 PM for me

thejonymyster

and also wrong mathematically

W D

2:18pm

hyper-neutrino

because I am talking about caird where it is 4:18 and no I do not mean PM. it is 23:18 where I am

W D

03:18

99999999999999999999am

lyxal

@WD hey we're in the same timezone

W D

-_-

lyxal

or at least, i'm artificially in your timezone

W D

I’m joking, I’m actually 3:19pm

thejonymyster

im in all of your timezones because im in your computer

lyxal

03:19

@WD no, you're not JoKing.

You're WD

W D

Oh wait

lyxal

i can't believe you made that mistake

Jo King

@WD it's 14:19 here though

caird coinheringaahing

@WD That unfortunately overflowed time, it is now -2147483648 o clock

5

W D

the oldest trick in the book be like

@cairdcoinheringaahing correction: Infinity o’clock (maybe inf o’clock if python 3)

Jo King

03:20

@cairdcoinheringaahing what is that with daylight saving

caird coinheringaahing

-2147483647 o'clock

Bubbler

To be 100% precise with the remainder thing, there are three different ways to do it: always positive, follow sign of divisor, follow sign of dividend

The second is C way, the third is Python way

hyper-neutrino

average the positive and negative version

W D

What about 100 mod 3 and 100 mod -3

caird coinheringaahing

I have a fourth: randomly choose one

Bubbler

03:21

My fourth is always negative

W D

I have a fifth: crash the computer

thejonymyster

@Bubbler what does following a sign entail?

caird coinheringaahing

If it's negative, go backwards

thejonymyster

ah

lyxal

A sixth way: positive and negative at the same time until you observe it

Jo King

03:22

check the wikipedia page for the visual graphs

emanresu A

#7: Make it positive if Lyxal's online, otherwise negative

W D

I.e. quantum physics and superposition

thejonymyster

@lyxal or positive and negative while you observe it, ± exists

W D

#8: always return 42

emanresu A

#11: Positive aside from mod intervention

Bubbler

03:22

@thejonymyster It defines the output of 100%-3 and -100%3

Former gives -2 if you follow the sign of the divisor, latter gives -1 if you follow the sign of the dividend

W D

#-2147483647: always return -2147483647

thejonymyster

@WD guaranteed to be modulo by fair supercomputer calculation

W D

lol x36

DLosc

@Bubbler QBasic does it C way and now I am sad :(

lyxal

@DLosc no, you're not sad.

W D

03:23

#Infinity: return square root of -1 (= i)

lyxal

@DLosc You're DLosc

DLosc

I am DLosc and I am sad :(

Bubbler

Well, what do you expect from a pre-C language

DLosc

I am saDLosc

emanresu A

@DLosc No, C does it QBasic way

W D

03:24

I have few doors

I have fe-WD-oors

thejonymyster

i uh

Bubbler

IIRC the C way was determined by the x86 way

thejonymyster

i cant do that with my name u_u

W D

Well, let’s get back on topic as we always do in this totally always on-topic and well-moderated chatroom

DLosc

12 mins ago, by lyxal

@DLosc if in doubt, ask apl

lyxal

03:25

@WD can I use you to make my Rubiks cube go faster?

W D

I know how to solve them

but not really

Skidsdev

@WD no. Curiously JS says -1

lyxal

WD-40

WD-40 is an American brand and the trademark name of a water-displacing spray manufactured by the WD-40 Company based in San Diego, California. WD-40 acts as a lubricant, rust preventative, penetrant and moisture displacer. == History == Different sources credit different men with inventing WD-40 formula in 1953 as part of the Rocket Chemical Company (later renamed to WD-40 Company), in San Diego, California; the formula was kept as a trade secret and was never patented.According to Iris Engstrand, a historian of San Diego and California history at the University of San Diego, Iver Norman Lawson...

W D

-1 % 10

17 mins ago, 16 minutes total – 122 messages, 10 users, 3 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by lyxal

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler Yes. Source: the question I'm drafting

@WD The cops should write a program, and the robbers should try to find a list of applicants that breaks it

lyxal

@WD I was going to say that this seems like it would be better suited as a king-of-the-hill

caird coinheringaahing

Also, are you sure there isn't an optimal strategy?

W D

Idk

you could just

thejonymyster

03:29

isnt there that e thing

W D

Yes, but that isn’t perfect

thejonymyster

that was in like numberphile or something

caird coinheringaahing

If there is, it doesn't work as a challenge

W D

[200,199,198,197, …]

Idk

thejonymyster

maybe allow repeated salaries

W D

03:30

maybe I’ll make it so people can have the same

@thejonymyster exactly, i will

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing Please use the sandbox first :P

W D

nNo

If i allow repeated salary, robber could do [200, 200, 200, 200, 200 …]

@Bubbler no use, the sandbox is dying

thejonymyster

just have it be based on difference from minimum

so if theres only 200s, 200 wins

oh, heres something

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler No, and this is why:

New Posts

0

Q: Mathjax and image descriptions interact inconsistently between the edit preview and actual post

When trying to edit the image description in this question to diagram showing an inclined plane at angle \$α\$ and an angry bird being fired at angle \$β\$ at speed \$u\$, (raw text is diagram showing an inclined plane at angle \$α\$ and an angry bird being fired at angle \$β\$ at speed \$u\$) ...

bug latex

Redwolf Programs

03:32

@hyper-neutrino Bots still down?

hyper-neutrino

up on my instance

now that you're here i can turn them off just lmk

thejonymyster

@WD why doesnt if(salary = 100){accept}else{reject} work

Redwolf Programs

> getaddrinfo EAI_AGAIN openid.stackexchange.com

First time I've ever seen this error

Odd

W D

Oh

emanresu A

^^

Did you post on MM?

caird coinheringaahing

03:33

My bug report?

emanresu A

ye

caird coinheringaahing

No, cause I haven't verified it happens on other sites

Redwolf Programs

@NewPosts StAtUs

New Posts

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[23:32:35] api.stackexchange.com/2.2/questions/23966?site=codegolf.meta
[23:32:35] request: chat.stackexchange.com/chats/240/messages/new
[23:33:04] 202-question-2140

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[03:33:58] ws: wss://chat.sockets.stackexchange.com/events/240/1e686d571cad42c3a222e7a0f5ffc8f5?l=129421837
[03:33:59] opened: sandbox
[03:34:22] status: 240

caird coinheringaahing

MM post

Redwolf Programs

03:34

@hyper-neutrino My instance is working again, you can safely shut yours down now

hyper-neutrino

aight

thejonymyster

@WD also, you left a "robbers" that should be a "cops"

Redwolf Programs

NP/SP 2.0 should be finished soon, and it'll have the ability to ping other instances and auto-start when needed

Bubbler

Lol, two timezones for the same bot

hyper-neutrino

wait what

Redwolf Programs

03:35

It'll also not be a hacked together and incredibly cursed italian pasta dish, which errors when you look at it funny

caird coinheringaahing

one is UTC, and the other is Texas time I think?

hyper-neutrino

no, my instance is the one that's in my local time...

i think my friend configured our server's system time to our local time for convenience

it's redwolf's server that's in UTC time. which is a bit surprising to me - isn't your server just a computer in your house?

caird coinheringaahing

Oh right, and there's two instances of NP running

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, my server's UTC, and 2332 is HN's time zone not mine

caird coinheringaahing

Or, there was when the status ping went out

hyper-neutrino

03:38

i mean i just pinged again in sandbox and verified which one's which :p

caird coinheringaahing

I love this answer to a bug report :P

> Hey so I was looking into this today, and it looks like this was fixed nearly two years ago and we just never said anything over here.

W D

Still any problems?

thejonymyster

cops thread is missing an end to a sentence

also him/her -> them

(your questions should be golfed on cgcc)

Bubbler

CMP:

There are so many questions about the Pascal's triangle. Should we add a new tag for that? — alephalpha 2 hours ago

thejonymyster

03:54

i feel like just sequence is fine, not sure what would be gained by being able to tag search for it rather than "pascal's triangle" search for it within [sequence]

hyper-neutrino

i feel like pascal's triangle is more of a resemblance/association than an actual useful category

Unrelated String

yeah

maybe a general 2d-sequence tag or something

thejonymyster

that sounds cool, best to find non pascal examples though to go with it

Unrelated String

i know there are some other infinite matrix read by antidiagonals challenges out there but i can't remember what

not that many though and it's ahrd to say it's that different from plain sequence

Bubbler

Yeah, sequence is just sequence

PyGamer0

04:04

uh i cant see anything on my screen, dont know if this message will even reach lol

lyxal

that seems to be a bug with the chat userscript

PyGamer0

no i am on my tablet
works fine in incognito mode

W D

04:23

I want to answer codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/226460/…

But I haven’t answered before

so that will be my first answer

what do I do

thejonymyster

theres a guide somewhere

lyxal

@WD answer something else then

W D

but I want to

caird coinheringaahing

Write a program (either a full program, or a function) in the language you're most comfortable with. Make sure it complies with all the rules in the challenge, and makes some effort to improve its score

W D

I have one

thejonymyster

04:24

here

W D

Oh

um

lyxal

> Only accounts that submitted an answer before this question was posted are eligible to participate. Each user may submit only one answer.

W D

Aww

thejonymyster

one of the first answers is the format guide

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Also, I should read the question first :P

thejonymyster

04:25

@lyxal aww indeed

that link i sent is to the format guide in case you still need it btw

or, well, the format guide is in one of the answers

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, the welcome guide is, well, intended to be a bit of a how to get started guide as well :P

Of course, if a challenge requires you to have already answered before answering it, then, you have to answer something else first

Q: What reasons could a post have a greyed out OP name (not clickable, no rep/badges), but have no migration record in the post history?

hyper-neutrino

do you have a link to an example?

preferably on this site so i can ~~abuse my mod powers~~ get some more insight

caird coinheringaahing

Yes, but I'm considering taking other moderation actions on it, and would like to be able to do so without other users doing stuff as well :P

hyper-neutrino

hmmm

caird coinheringaahing

Actually, meh

CMM: This post appears to almost be a fastest-algorithm post. I'm considering voting to close as "lacks winning criteria". Also, it appears that all but one answer are closer to standard SE answers, rather than answers we expect. Thoughts?

hyper-neutrino

04:36

... why are half of the answerers and commenters non-existent, but the other half are fine

caird coinheringaahing

I have no idea

It isn't dissociation, as that shows "anon"

hyper-neutrino

this has to be a migration no?

caird coinheringaahing

Apparently not

hyper-neutrino

well ik the timeline doesn't say so

but i feel like it's more likely that the record is just missing or smth

caird coinheringaahing

Even weirder, is that one of the answers was deleted by "Shuo", but said user doesn't have an account here

hyper-neutrino

04:38

also that's weird - i lost 10 rep on japanese SE for serial voting, somehow. it's my only upvote there since i only have one post. ??

the earliest post migrated here was on feb. 6 2011 from SO, so we know the records go at least that far back

so this post wouldn't have been before they recorded that (if that ever was a thing, which I don't think it was)

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait no, the timeline is confusing, Shou is OP

hyper-neutrino

04:59

the only lead I have after a discussion with another mod is that potentially all code-golf tagged questions on SO were mass-migrated here by a developer and so instead of following the standard migration path they were just forcibly chucked here and thus look like they originated here

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