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12:15 AM
@DJMcMayhem ayy check it
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

tfbninjaI found this interesting alphabet pattern while golfing for this challenge, and in my opinion this is different enough from the other alphabet challenges to post as a KG. I don't really want comments from alphabet challenge haters, more just unbiased opinions on whether this is a dupe and if I sh...

12:44 AM
@tfbninja Congratulations, you ninja'd New Sandboxed Posts. Good job.
1:05 AM


For playing the game Contact, where one person tries to "defend"...
Anyone want to play contact?
1:27 AM
I assume that ... and I won't make a pun because the penguin is watching
The Penguin is always watching over you
Enter PhiNotPi
With ATaco in hand
> eats a taco
> Stops, before the penguin waddles and kicks
Mego has added an event to this room's schedule.
PPCG Podcast happening in 25 minutes (2 AM UTC)! Featuring myself, @Doorknob, @DJMcMayhem, and Nick Clifford! discord.gg/H2hR2X
1:35 AM
what is that :D
@Pavel lol true
Nick Clifford is a dev or a random user?
the first one was a mistake
1:37 AM
Mego has removed an event from this room's schedule.
Mego has added an event to this room's schedule.
Got the right date this time
@HyperNeutrino He's on PPCG, but hasn't been in here recently enough to ping
@Mego hold on the podcast is actually happening?
I know, it's exciting
1:40 AM
Oh okay
Why didn't I hear about this sooner?
wait so how does this thingy work
@PhiNotPi We've been talking about it for the past two-ish weeks in here and in the podcast chat room
@HyperNeutrino Why can't he be both
o true :P
1:42 AM
@HyperNeutrino Our four lovely speakers will be in a voice chat channel in Discord. We'll be talking and doing podcasty things. We have 4 main topics to discuss (Spectre/Meltdown, Net Neutrality, Programming Language Trends and Development, and PPCG v2). We'll also almost certainly meander into other topics. Listeners can join the voice channel, but can't talk. They can respond in text chat, and we'll be keeping an eye on text chat to enable a live conversation with the viewers.
Ooh that sounds really cool :D
We're also recording our individual audio, which I will mix and master into a final cut that can be listened to at any point after I publish it
glad I can just use text and not have to voice because otherwise i'd deafen you all with background noise lmao
So if people are interested but can't make it to the live cast, it will be available for listening
@HyperNeutrino Yeah that's a big reason why we chose to set it up the way we did - too many people in VC would make it hard to hold a conversation
1:44 AM
yeah true
oh my god
There may be some issues with people's voices in VC (DJ, for example, has a common problem where his audio will drop out for a few words), which is why we're recording the audio
i have like 3 discord accounts because i keep forgetting which email i use
I remember volunteering for the podcast a while back (like, 2016 a while back)
well i finally figured out which email it was
@PhiNotPi Yeah, unfortunately that iteration didn't pan out. Which is why I decided to try it again.
1:46 AM
@Mego Wait really? :/
I didn't know that
@DJMcMayhem Lol we complain about it all the time
@Mego just so you know, I'm still interested in doing some podcast stuff, so if there's ever gonna be a podcast on a topic you think I could help out with (IDK what that would be), I can be a speaker for something.
@PhiNotPi One of the topics I thought of for the next podcast could be Tetris, which I would love to have you on for
Can someone please explain the usage of the eggplant ?
@Zacharý Alex is a goof
1:52 AM
Liao, right?
ah yes hello
I'm not really in TNB that much but I'll still respond if you ping me @Mego lol
@Zacharý who me?
the SE app gives chat notifications too
@NickClifford if a user is inactive for too long the option to ping them goes away lol
1:55 AM
i was asking for clarification of which "Alex".
@Zacharý No, Alex A. Our beloved bird mod.
Whether it's you or "bird alex"
(shows how much I use chat.SE)
Yes, the one that can fly (away from here)
@Mego So thus you are not our beloved bird mod
2:32 AM
@Zacharý Right, because Mego is not a mod
He is not our beloved bird mod, he is a mod that can still kick me. So, he's the ... other bird mod
Never mind, A.A. is the painting mod, and Meego is the bird mod
3:21 AM
@aditsu would you mind taking a look at this when you have the chance? Thanks in advance
3:41 AM
@Zacharý Not a mod, just a room owner
podcast went well!
I'm pleasantly surprised about how few issues we had
yeah I'm glad DJ didn't actually stop recording
@NickClifford Well what happened is that I wanted to blow my nose, but I didn't want everyone to hear it, so I unplugged my mic. I didn't realize that would stop audacity lol
I should have just muted it
3:47 AM
Oh Now I see who Nick was, I was unsure the whole time
4:01 AM
@DJMcMayhem You need a mute button on your mic :P
I made good use of mine as I downed a large glass of water
So you can mute without alerting people to the fact that you muted.
@NickClifford haha yeah that really scared me for a bit
I have been summoned
4:09 AM
4:26 AM
@Mego Recording available?
@Pavel I'm still downloading audio from the other participants lol
It shouldn't take me too long to edit this all together
Maybe like 6-8 weeks
4:41 AM
First things first: repair DJ's audio
What was wrong with it?
It cut out for a couple seconds in the middle
Which isn't a huge deal, except that it's split into two tracks now
4:59 AM
Oh boy, Audacity keeps freezing on me
This is going to be really fun
I hate Audacity >_<
There's no real alternative and the UI is annoyingly hard to use.
DJ audio fixed! \o/
5:45 AM
user image
2 hours later…
7:58 AM
@Mego How long did the podcast last?
@Fatalize About an hour and a half
jeez that's long
@Mego Where will you upload it? Youtube?
@Fatalize Not sure yet
Maybe youtube, definitely standalone downloads in various formats (MP3, WMA, OGG)
90 minutes ended up being the perfect amount of time for our discussions
8:10 AM
@Fatalize We discussed broccolilog brachylog a little bit
"broccolilog" ಠ_ಠ
I don't see in which of the 4 subjects Brachylog (or any esolang for that matter) would fit the discussion
Programming language trends and development
We were talking about how languages started using single-byte encoding schemes to get even shorter
Eh, I thought that would be more about practical languages
And Brachylog came up because it was the first language we could find that was made by a PPCG user that used a SBCS instead of ASCII or Unicode
8:14 AM
I mean Jelly did it first
even though Jelly is younger than Brachylog
(What about the new code page for Actually btw? :p)
Seriously was a contender, but Brachylog was earlier by a few months
Jelly was the first to use a custom codepage so that the symbols made sense and weren't a huge pain to type
But Brachylog was the first (as far as we could tell) that used an existing encoding
Yeah but Brachylog used ASCII for a long period at first
Then was Seriously the first?
before that it used ASCII
Well yeah I think so
Now you gotta edit the podcast to replace "Brachylog" with "Seriously" :P
In any case, Brachylog's code page was inspired by Jelly's code page, so it's definitely not first
November 8th, 2015 for Seriously
so more than a 1 year difference
gs2 came first, but it wasn't made by a PPCG user (the creator was an anagolf user)
8:20 AM
What about ESMin?
Or does that use Unicode?
ESMin uses UTF-16 as it's JS
And it has way more than 256 characters :P
Are there new/in development esolangs currently?
The last one I can think of is Husk
Well earlier today Christopher came up with an idea for a Brain-Flak derivative designed to be even more painful to use
Actually is still somewhat in development, but I'm still focusing my effort on the rewrite/refactor so that continued development will suck less
8:25 AM
Refactoring is the hard part
The last few changes I wanted to make to Brachylog's syntax require big changes to the tokenizer and the parser. I've lost the will to work on the language after attempting to implement the changes
My problem is, it's not the core language that I want to change. It's the terrible implementation.
I mean at least you have unit tests… :P
87% coverage woo
I gave up on implementing them after the 30th built-in
8:42 AM
@Fatalize Wheatwizard and 0' are making "jelly, 3 bytes"
…is that really the name
Yeah, I think they are planning on rotating through a list of awful names
Add "language names" to the list of neurons dedicated to Brain-Flak
9:07 AM
@LeakyNun Jelly, 8 bytes Æp+³=µ#Ḣ
Gives the maximum of the pair of primes
Oh ;-; Ninja'd-nearly by Erik, at least it's a bit different
Husk, 8 bytes !İp€Ẋ-İp... Can probably be made a lot shorter
10:04 AM
Can mods close question immediately (without 5 votes)?
@user202729 I'm sure they can, since even gold badge non-mod users can.
@user202729 Of course.
@Adám Only for duplicates, though.
Actually an interesting question. Are all mod privileges publicly known?
Because we only have few moderators (Dennis, Doorknob, MartinEnder and AlexA. (?)), I was not sure.
@Adám ... just ask them ...
1 hour later…
11:33 AM
so i tried codegolfing in Rust, and wow
somehow it's more verbose than Java
like sleep sort in Java - 106 bytes, in Rust - 150 bytes
and that of course considering checked exception nonsense for Thread.sleep
11:50 AM
@Mr.Xcoder Typo "Triagularity" on github page.
@user202729 Thank you! Fixed.
1 hour later…
1:19 PM
@Mods The comments under the /// answers became too long. Should someone delete them? (and probably lock the answer)
Also, someone complains about the answer hardcodes the output...
[history question] Why do we have the "hardcoding the output" loophole and "serious contender" rule at the first place?
answers are exempted from that standard loophole (hardcoding).
... I don't understand. We can't even define what is hardcode the output.
(I remember MartinEnder (or someone else) have a question on meta about what is hardcode)
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Peter TaylorHard-coding the output Unless the question is an obvious exception (the primary exception being those tagged kolmogorov-complexity), your program is expected to do work, not just print a pre-calculated result. If the question doesn't require input and so a solution which just prints the answer w...

... and the comment has got 3 more upvotes by the way.
> If the question doesn't require input and so a solution which just prints the answer would seem to meet the spec, downvote the question rather than post a protest answer consisting of the literal output.
Let's see...
In my opinion, an answer which hardcodes the output is an answer that only works for a specific range of inputs, due to the limitations of the algorithm used, rather than the limitations of the language in which the algorithm is implemented.
1:26 PM
Oh ok.
Because this loophole may be wrongly understood, read this. In other word, algorithms must theorically work for all input, although in practice it may not work. — user202729 8 secs ago
^ correct? (the latter sentence)
In my opinion, that answer doesn’t violate any standard loophole, but it is not a serious contender so it should be removed.
isn't that loophole a duplicate of this?
I don't entirely agree with your comment, because in this particular case, I feel like it is not appropriate (the challenge explicitly allows – and that's actually the whole point thereof – that the output can be anything, while you should try to optimise the score)
@user202729 Definitely not.
@Mr.Xcoder ... which comment?
1:31 PM
@Mr.Xcoder Isn't that what you meant?
Ok, good. I'm trying to wrap my head around the context
@user202729 I thought you commented on the Moby Dick answer... Wait
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

DowngoatEmpty / Bare Output Not sure on the best title but hopefully the examples show what I mean. Mainly targeting code-challenges where the score is determined by the output. This results in very boring, but valid, answers which tend to get upvoted especially on pop-cons with no other answers. An ...

OK, that is a clear loophole violation. Never saw that one before.
In my opinion, this answer clearly violates this loophole. — Mr. Xcoder 32 secs ago
4 mins ago, by user202729
@Mr.Xcoder Isn't that what you meant?
^ Can you reply to that comment too?
That's what I meant, but I don't think it is necessary to mention it in a comment. You can do whatever you want, though.
1:37 PM
I think it's necessary because I don't think so on the first time I read the answer. Is it that obvious?
Mhm, perhaps my opinion is not necessarily the definition of hard-coding.
Is (non competing) still used on this site for any purposes?
A better variant might be: An answer hardcodes the output if it is possible to identify a portion of the program that encodes pre-calculated results, instead of computing them.
Anyways, cya gtg o/
@user202729 No, because its only real purpose was for postdating languages which has now been added to the Standard Loopholes (if abused) and the status has been officially removed (well, there was a meta post by Martin and it was like +50/-10 or something like that, I don't remember)
some people mistakenly use it for incomplete or partial solutions but those should just be deleted
i lagged out TIO (client-side) somehow lol
Just output a lot of bytes. Easy.
1:49 PM
and i just lost a ton of code yay
Or use RAM-consuming browsers and open a lot of tabs, and disable pagefile.
Don't use TIO for serious code.
well no i can usually output over the byte limit and still not freeze
it's not serious code so i don't really care :P
2:04 PM
@Fatalize Ohm is still kind of in development
I think I successfully finished my KoTH controller :D
nvm i forgot a TODO part lol
2:37 PM
CMC: Given a positive integer N, output the sum of all prime factors of all numbers from 2 up to and including N (for each number between 2 and N, don't count prime factors multiple times). / (it's a CMC, I'm not going to bother judging it properly) (problem given to me by a friend)
Sorry, misread.
100k -> 795296868
200k -> 2980866992
250k -> 4566515439
Sum of all prime factors of all numbers?
so like for input 7
answer is 24
2 -> [2]
3 -> [3]
4 -> [2]
5 -> [5]
6 -> [2, 3]
7 -> [7]
2 + 3 + 2 + 5 + (2 + 3) + 7 = 24
Question to native English speakers: is “sine qua non” a well-known expression?
2:41 PM
I've never heard of it; I'd think it's foreign if I saw it. I don't know if it's well-known to most people though.
(link is to TIO frontpage)
oh I see what you are doing
nvm tooltip text ok
yeah that's what i'd do as well
but also, . but gj regardless
... fastest code so C++ ...
I can get 10 million in about 4.7 seconds (python)
So I'll use Python to be fair.
2:44 PM
@user202729 yeah pretty much :P
I can use c++ as well if you prefer c++
I don't prefer C++, but I know it better
because competitive programming.
oh wow i'm so dumb
@Fatalize I've never heard of it either
Anyone up for JHT after this CMC?
i had a hugely inefficient part of my program that could be easily optimized
2:45 PM
@Mego yikes... i'm only 12 hours late
10mil now ~2.9 seconds
Hmm alright thanks
@HyperNeutrino ...?
nvm I just missed a part in my program that was obviously optimizable
For 100k I got 795396868
2:51 PM
yep looks right
I think Rabin-Miller should be the best attempt here
interestingly enough, my python solution is faster than my c++ one
Sorry, my mistake
Do you measure the time on TiO or independently @HyperNeutrino?
2:55 PM
1e6 -> 64986402084 (1.4s)
wait nvm no it isn't
@Mr.Xcoder TIO but I use a built-in time library and check the elapsed time instead of using the debug info
1e6 -> 64986402084 (0.2s)
2:56 PM
switch to C++
@Mr.Xcoder ... primality test?
Nvm I changed my mind
@user202729 Yes
1e6 -> 64986402084 (~50ms) (C++)
my friend got 100k in 1.9s

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