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8:00 PM
@MartinEnder M&M's actually stands for "Mars & Murrie's," the last names of the candy's founders.
@DJMcMayhem What? Where?
@flawr I live in Florida and drink coffee all the time, so I'm not sure that's it.
@flawr i live in a hot climate. i love hot drinks and soup.
@flawr Minnesota, so it's only hot for 3 months of the year.
8:00 PM
@MartinEnder While many believe Hydrox cookies are an Oreo knock-off, Hydrox actually came first—in 1908, four years before the Oreo.
Please stop the random spam facts.
@Geobits Well I usually just drink hot beverages during (snowy icy)winter.
@flawr I grew up in the rain and never drink anything hot
I am a weird person, when I go inside on a cold winter day, I have a cold drink.
@Geobits int get RandomNumber


return 4;
8:02 PM
@trichoplax No hot pepsi??? o_O
@Phrancis It's a very common thing around here.
is it prove-flawr-wrong-with-anecdotes-day?
@flawr Nothing caffeinated either...
I'm sure glad chat bans are a thing.
Anecdotal evidence is the best evidence
8:02 PM
I scrolled up.
@Mast Here too, I just don't think it's very good
WTF was with the remove fest.
hey @Phrancis
@BusinessCat I once thought that too, but my boss was not convinced. So I'm not relying on that anymore.
@flawr pls halp im stuck in r/hmmm
8:04 PM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You might want to switch to reddit.com/r/awwschwitz
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I was tempted to trash all those removed messages, but then the remaining messages wouldn't make any sense.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Someone quoted the "gorilla warfare" meme, it got flagged, the mods swarmed in, he didn't think it was inappropriate, stuff git trashed
@BusinessCat The plural of anecdote isn't "data", unless you're studying social sciences.
@DJMcMayhem oic thanks
@Mast is a mod?
8:05 PM
@TimmyD Is that where they use anecdata?
Uh, I'm not sure
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ nope
I wish you could see on mobile
Java or Javascript? (strawpoll.me/11055518)
@ArtOfCode i didn't think so
@ColdGolf lel
8:06 PM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Why does everyone think that?
because "the mods swarmed in"
@Mast but you would make a good mod, if it helps
Aug 10 at 22:22, by flawr
Please include the title of the poll when posting a link.
@Mast I thought you deleted the posts cause you came in and said they were gone
And cause I can't tell on mobile
I'm a 10k+ user on chat.
@MartinEnder the line between "fewest tokens" and "fewest bytes" can be hard to define. For example, is my compounding english challenge fewest tokens or bytes?
8:07 PM
@DJMcMayhem Mobile chat is the pits
@ColdGolf 4/4 JavaScript so far
So I see and validate/invalidate flags.
Just spam/offensive flags though, not moderator flags. I'm not a moderator.
@Mast Oic.
Just like half the people in this room, currently.
Rep or stars? (strawpoll.me/11055544)
8:08 PM
@Phrancis yeah, it's true. It's better than missing the drama in here though
The other half actually is a mod :P
@NathanMerrill yeah that's a bit tricky, admittedly
@Mast Well, there's actually at least four mods in here, chatting and/or watching.
1 vote for Java. Who are you?
@ColdGolf 4/4 diamond so far
8:09 PM
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Haha
@Mast well, now that you're in here, welcome to our room! When we're not flagging spam memes, we're overstarring things and arguing about how words are pronounced, so you came in at the right time!
@Geobits did I miss something?
@MartinEnder also, you didn't address single number output Does it even belong?
@Downgoat Nothing worth mentioning.
@DJMcMayhem Overstarring things, now that's something I'm familiar with. I usually hang out in The 2nd Monitor.
8:11 PM
@Mast haha
@NathanMerrill I wouldn't mind if that remains a code challenge, but I think smallest output is fine
Gimme dem startz 4 no raeson
so, what are the benefits of differentiating between bytes and tokens?
also, I really like the name
@NathanMerrill that answers scoring by bytes get their own tag, I guess?
@ColdGolf JavaScript is best script
8:14 PM
@MartinEnder is there a difference in the types of challenges that would score by bytes vs tokens (that I may want to search by)?
@Geobits oh so this is what happened?
or is that purely for easy understanding
@Downgoat removefest + flags
so when I read I immediately know how the scoring works
@NathanMerrill one is plain data compression to whatever format you like... the other is likely more contraint in that you're asked to represent something in as few tokens/entities with given semantics as possible
8:15 PM
Favorite esolang? (strawpoll.me/11055601)
@NathanMerrill A fantasy novel with only one author --
@NathanMerrill public class p{public static void Main(String[] args){ ... }}
@NathanMerrill Visualize bit weaving, possibly.
so many replies oO
@MartinEnder oooh, so [fewest-bytes] is basically a compression challenge. If its about produing the minimal steps or the minimum of anything, its basically a
8:18 PM
Strawpoll ❤
I guess? But [fewest-bytes] could also be "the shortest output that is longer than your program"
i.e. in principle it doesn't have to be limited to compressing some input data in a recoverable form
Q: You have no respect for logic

MastInspired by Hosch250, TopinFrassi, Legato and the recent milestone of having our 100th fizzbuzz question on Code Review I decided to add an ArnoldC FizzBuzz to the collection. I haven't found any best practices about the language, but I assume the code needs to be VERBOSE. For those unfamiliar w...

Definitely not suitable for golfing.
Why the sudden silence
8:21 PM
Everyone is having pizza.
so, I'm mostly interested in retagging the challenges, and considering there are drastically more of those than , I'm going to avoid the latter
I'm still not totally sold on , for example, on my word search problem
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Pyro.JS?
the scoring is basically the number of "locations" used
8:24 PM
@Mast nice name
it's because downgoat is phlog pyro
and js addict
@NathanMerrill I haven't kept up. Is about output still?
Or steps in the algorithm?
yeah, still talking about
and theoretically different names/scopes
oooh, maybe
> Limit all lines to a maximum of 79 characters.
we use , so it fits well with that definition
8:27 PM
@Mast I love that there's a code review of ArnoldC
^ There are quite a few LOLCODE ones if I'm not mistaken (it may even have a tag?)
hmmm...and the opposite would be ?
I don't like "most" very much
Anyone have thoughts on this:
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DJMcMayhemWhat base is this number in? code-golf math base-conversion Here's a seemingly trivial challenge that is more challenging than it first seems: Given a string that represents a number in an unknown base, determine the lowest possible base that number might be in. The string will only conta...

actually, I could do , and the OP defines whether or not "fewest" or "most" wins
@trichoplax @MartinEnder ^ what do you think?
@NathanMerrill How would you define it in the wiki?
8:35 PM
"atomic output" ... Beta Decay automatically wins
@DJMcMayhem Feels like you sort it, find index in 0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz then add one? Not sure it's very interesting...?
@DJMcMayhem I recommend appending "inclusive" after 0 to 36
Er, find the index of the maximum :P
(I don't mean you must include 0 in your challenge, I just mean say "inclusive" for whatever range you settle on, so it is unambiguous.)
@DJMcMayhem Maybe allow taking input as uppercase as well? Not sure if that'd make any solutions shorter, but it couldn't hurt.
8:39 PM
@trichoplax "Answers are scored based on the number of 'atoms' in your code's output. Questions posted with this tag should indicate what an 'atom' is, and whether you want the maximum or minimum number of atoms"
@DJMcMayhem shouldn't unary be all 1?
@NathanMerrill hm, I'm not really a huge fan of that
@LeakyNun no, cause it it has ones, it could be in binary
8:40 PM
Chat seems normal again
Give it time...
@βετѧΛєҫαγ well, as normal as usual
Which is not at all
@FryAmTheEggman Yup, there's quite some of those.
also, I thought of and , but again, that's unclear whether or not we are scoring by bytes or atoms
We aren't as boring as you all think.
We jus like to keep our code readable.
Including Brainfuck.
8:42 PM
@NathanMerrill I understand the meaning from this, but I'm not sure how useful it is as a tag.
There is (at least) one Pyth question, too right?
Oh, yep there's exactly one with the tag anyway: codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/pyth
@NathanMerrill I'm trying to think of a word that sums it up rather than using "atom", which is already used for atomic golf. It seems that these challenges would be something like "output optimisation" or "search space exploring" but I feel like I'm missing a much better word
@trichoplax well, for the purposes of searching, its quite useful. Minimization/maximization problems are quite similar, and appeal to similar people. For a challenge-parsing purpose, its less useful as it effectively has two params that the OP has to define
@NathanMerrill I definitely agree that putting minimisation and maximisation together makes sense
@FryAmTheEggman and it's leaky nun. Haha, of course
8:47 PM
maybe a as a theme tag, and a as a scoring tag?
that way, scoring is pretty much always clear when you read it
I think perhaps "output" is the problem here
Is there a better word for it that doesn't sound like text?
I don't think so. We have "output" pretty well defined, and that's exactly what we are trying to score/optimize here
@FryAmTheEggman 53 Brainfuck questions, 1 Pyth question, 6 lolcode questions, probably plenty of other esolang as well.
outputting an array in many challenges doesn't mean printing text. I could simply return an array from my function
@NathanMerrill Good point. I may be overthinking and going round in circles...
@NathanMerrill If we go with the scoring tag, does that make the other redundant?
8:50 PM
Remember that there are two parts to weird bureaucracy: bureaucracy and weird.
Q: Figure Out the Android Lock Pattern

Eamon OliveLets say you saw your friend enter his or her password into their Android phone. You don't remember how they made the pattern but you remember what the pattern looks like. Being the concerned friend that you are you want to know how secure their password is. Your job is to calculate all the wa...

I was proposing both. is basically my original proposal. It scores both in bytes/atoms (by default bytes). is basically a theme tag that applies to minimization and maximization challenges. The have overlap, but they also include challenges that aren't in the other
@NewMainPosts I swear we had something similar to this, didn't we?
for example, a compression challenge would be but not
oh, there's an tag
its way broad: "for challenges involving optimizing a certain thing."
OK, 2 hours later the memory usage increased from 10.2% to 10.3% so it must be doing something
This might take multiple days......
8:56 PM
@quartata Might be a memory leak ...
@quartata If it takes two hours for a malloc to process, you might have bigger underlying problems. ;-)
No, it's supposed to be slow
But I have no progress bar so I have no idea how far in the transcript it is or how deep the tree has gone
oooh, "do X with as few malloc calls as possible"
@Geobits Inclined to agree
my_bytes = malloc(1 << 30);
8:59 PM
Well, after it's run the first time, you'll know what the maximum memory usage is. Then, when you run it again, you'll have a pseudo progress bar based on current usage over time.
@quartata is a thing?
I'm hoping not to run it more than once
@Laikoni is close (more general)
@quartata Always make a progress bar (even if it's wildly misleading)
Although I'll admit I'm tempted to throw in the 2nd Monitor's transcript
@NathanMerrill I'm struggling to see the distinction. Wouldn't compression count as a kind of output optimisation?
9:01 PM
its not a minimization problem
I'm missing something then
but the tag is confusing, which is why I like
because the act of minimization or maximization is independent of how its scored
Would this be output optimisation?
In a way golf and fastest code are types of optimisation too...
In fact, if there isn't something to optimise, there wouldn't be a winning criterion...
@NathanMerrill And too?
9:04 PM
I guess I see compression as the same kind of thing - the shortest string that leads you to the required original text
yeah, we're splitting hairs I think
Ah - output optimisation could be optimising some aspect of the output other than its size, so then it wouldn't be smallest output
I don't see what the distinction between and is
@NathanMerrill Seems like a subset
Optimisation could have a fixed output
9:13 PM
how so?
Produce this fixed output in the fewest seconds/bytes of memory/loops/bytes of source code
Depends how broad a definition you give "optimisation", which I guess can be defined in the wiki.
yeah, but if you look at the questions covers, all (or nearly all) are
Since it's a tag I guess I should be writing "optimization" rather than "optimisation" - it takes a conscious effort to remember...
@NathanMerrill I guess time and bytes of source are covered by existing tags, so the only thing other than output that would be tagged as optimization would be memory optimization
yeah. I think I've seen a memory optimization challenge
We've had those but I don't think they used a specific tag - I'll have a look
9:17 PM
Q: Restricted memory optimization

LembikThe edit (or Levenshtein) distance between two strings is the minimal number of single character insertions, deletions and substitutions needed to transform one string into the other. If the two strings have length n each, it is well known that this can be done in O(n^2) time by dynamic programmi...

its not scoring by the amount of memory you use, but it does have a memory restriction placed
Q: Domino Circuits

Martin EnderScoreboard Here are the raw scores (i.e. domino counts) for VisualMelon's submission. I'll turn these into the normalised scores described below, when more answers come in. The existing solution can now solve all circuits in the benchmark: Author Circuit: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ...

This similarly
ooh, found an old one that would probably be closed:
Q: Project Euler Problem 12: optimize memory usage

cbrulakI am referring to Project Euler #12. Write the solution in any language you want, but consume the least amount of memory while executing. Running time is not measure in this case. The sequence of triangle numbers is generated by adding the natural numbers. So the 7th triangle number wo...

@quartata any particular reason why the phlog is bad?
No airblast
@NathanMerrill Hmm. That does demonstrate the difficulty of judging a memory optimization challenge
9:22 PM
I think the array solution is rather clever
aka, the only variable a solution can use is a single array of fixed-sized integers
and you judge them based on the size of the array
In other words a finite tape
yes I like that :)
Might as well make a toy language for the challenge
That'll simplify any language quirks
Then again I have no idea what the challenge is so
we're not making one, talking about tags :)
Oh, ha, OK.
9:25 PM
I should make the podcast time table a challenge. "Find a 3h timeslot where as many people as possible are available" :D
isn't that trivial by intersecting with each other by brute force?
unless you make it a problem :P
ok seriously, why is my avatar different in chat than on site despite I never changed anything
It could be turned into an instance of graph k-coloring
9:27 PM
Do you see a purple one?
Weird. when I click on you the pop-up is a red one
No, a red
I think you need a chat refresh perhaps
@ThreeFx clicking on your avatar is red, but the link I posted is purple
Shift-F5 ot CTRL-F5 doesn't do anything
9:28 PM
@ThreeFx No, different kind of refresh
Only a mod can do it
Ah ok
Oh, nevermind.
I already tried - still looks red here and on the chat profile
9:28 PM
It's because your SO profile has the purple one
Change your parent profile
Although I think the only place where it's red is your network profile
It's red on the SO profile for me
ThreeFx, Germany
4.4k 1 5 30
Nope, not for me
Not for me
(purple in the onebox but click on it and the page has red but a purple one in the flair)
Yeah, it's purple when you click it
9:31 PM
What the actual heck
I think this is legitimately one of the few times we can blame caching
Huh. Interesting. I have a stack overflow error that has absolutely nothing to do with recursion.
9:31 PM
@DJMcMayhem r/nocontext
@ThreeFx Welcome to TNB ;)
One of us, one of us...
For me it shows red on all profiles except purple on the network profile
is red
is not
@trichoplax Exact opposite for me
9:33 PM
The f=1 parameter changes it.
Actually, it's purple on the network profile now
Maybe we should wait 24 hours...
Let's do so
How do you concatenate a list of tuples to a single list? Easy: foldr uncurry((.(:)).(.).(:)) []
9:48 PM
which lang?
Haskell, something of type [(a,a)]->[a]
idk haskell, sorry
I feel like it should be easier, 'cause it's a builtin in most golfing languages
I think the term is flatten?
@ThreeFx this reminds me of a Mathematica snippet I discovered today, which blows up an array x of arbitrary dimensions and depth by a factor of 2: #&[##&[#,#]&//@x] I think it's both beautiful and severely messed up :D
9:51 PM
Q: Is there a function to flatten a nested list of elements?

tm1rbrtHow can I flatten a nested list like this: [1, 2, 3, 4] == flatten [[[1,2],[3]],[[4]]]

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Thing is, I have tuples and not lists.
@MartinEnder I don't know Mathematica enough to completely understand it, but what the hell :D (Side note, It's sad such things don't work in Haskell)
I don't think I ever got to use //@ in golf.
@feersum you look different
Does he have a different avatar?
9:54 PM
Maybe @Martin sees different.
I've definitely used it in a golf just recently (not sure if it was my own or whether I helped someone else), but it was something where I used it to replace recursion
Well, it probably caches the image for each size.
I'm still seeing Three as purple
feersum's blue for me
9:57 PM
What the hell is going on with the caches atm D:
I think identicons are just broken today
Q: C# Visual Studio Question

PLEASE HELP ME423912Say i have a program where a user is presented with a treeview of multiple directories and must check desired file/directories that they would like to later be copied..... That aside once the user has selected the files how can i go about creating a separate executable after a button is clicked t...

Gravatar probably switched to Redis and it broke everything.
@ThreeFx //@ is "MapAll" it applies a function to all levels of an expression tree (unfortunately including the top level). ##&[#,#] is kinda weird but it repeats an element without actually wrapping it in a new list or pair or anything. but then at the end you have the problem that this is also applied to your input and you only want the first copy of it, which is what the outer #&[...] is for.
10:00 PM
Actually that makes sense
Isn't there a Mathematica student edition or so?
there is, but I think it still costs money and doesn't include free updates
Well isn't that something...
I think it's still cheaper to get a Raspberry Pi...
Of course.
luckily, it appears that my university's (free and auto-upgrading) student licence appears to be extending itself indefinitely, even though I graduated last year. Mathematica 11 was released last week and with that my licence got extended until October 2017...
10:03 PM
@ThreeFx There are parentheses missing, right?
v @MartinEnder can you help me with a scoreboard for one of my challenges?
I need to work for a company that uses Mathematica
Is the liscencing for mathematica independent of having a pro liscence?
@NathanMerrill try Wolfram Industries
@Laikoni Yep, just wrap the uncurry(..) part in parentheses
10:05 PM
@NewMainPosts that username though :D
@RohanJhunjhunwala I'm going to bed now, but I'm sure there are some people around who have used it before or know enough JS/HTML/CSS to help you out. :)
@MartinEnder you did a PHD in math, correct?
@MartinEnder ok, I'll ask around
talk to the goat
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I did an MSci in theoretical physics and I'm currently doing a PhD in computer graphics/visualisation.
10:07 PM
oh, that must have been xnor then
somebody did a PHD in math other than dennis
Zgarb did
@MartinEnder nice though
@MartinEnder okay, i knew somebody did
That references tho
Yeah, I do wonder if anyone uses Mathematica in production
@Downgoat Hey, I was wondering if you could help me out. For my recent challenge, It would be incredibly helpful to have an automated Javascript leaderboard. Do you think you could help me modify the standard stack snipped leaderboard to work with this question (codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/90593/…)
10:08 PM
So many PHDs around, it makes me feel underqaulified for the site. :D
It's extremely expensive obviously for a commercial license
But some of the functions could be incredibly useful
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, as one of the select few vi masters ;)
@ThreeFx actually, I can't stand vi. Vim is so much better
But thank you! :)
Oops, missed a letter there
Wasn't the devil something with 6's?
I've literally started scanning Python using scanmem just to find out how far along this thing is
If I'm correct it appears to be not very
10:16 PM
@ThreeFx Technically, 666 is the number of the Beast, which is not Satan, the devil.
I heard a rumour it is the number of a man, possibly the Emperor Nero?
Greek names are also numbers in the old system
I think the answer is not very
since I can find Welcome to chat for: Code Golf
but not does anybody have a shorter way joining spaces to an array in ruby, apart from the usual *' ' (message 3 months later)
Q: When was the number of the beast, 666, first identified as referring to Emperor Nero?

Ben MordecaiThe belief that the number of the beast in Revelation, 666, refers to Nero is a common theory now. When was this identification first suggested?

so I don't feel too bad about control-cing this
It definitely was working, but far far far slower than it should be.
I think it's the replies
I'm iterating through the entire transcript each time
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ not me
10:18 PM
I should stop after a certain date range no matter what
A: Why is the number 666 considered evil?

dancekIt is the number of the Beast in Revelation: Revelation 13:18 (ESV) 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. Its significance is often claimed to be that the Emperor Nero, duri...

I also heard there was a suspicion the original number was 616
@trichoplax See the first question.
@trichoplax if you make the next one just a little more absurd, this conversation could be an xkcd
@MartinEnder Sleep is overrated, eh? :D
10:20 PM
I said I'm going to bed (which I have...)
Amusingly, Jesus is 888, which was the old teletext page for translation
Nailed it.
(Funny because it's true...)
All right, I added a ten-day limit for searching for replies and a crude progress bar
This should be much better
@Downgoat When you have a chance bring Chatgoat into beep boop
This should make for a fairly entertaining bot conversation
@El'endiaStarman You're getting pretty close to overtaking your C.SE rep
10:42 PM
Hmm. My stat teacher put four assignments on the website and set their due date to yesterday. School doesn't start until tomorrow. Now they're all listed as overdue.
@Doorknob for some reason, I read "star teacher"
Admit it, you're just lazy (Kappa)
@El'endiaStarman I've been wondering for a while, what's the difference between Christianity.se and biblical hermeneutics? To an outsider, they seem like the same thing
@Doorknob He needs it yesterday
Whoa, this time making the tree finished in 10 minutes
I think it worked
Yeah, definitely works. Woot.
10:54 PM
^ my outdoors.SE score.
TIL the width of GitHub markdown documents is 888 pixels.
Does anyone know a browser extension that can warn you when the site you're on has a satanic element size?
Probably Hellblocker Plus or something
Yeah, Hellmouth Detector++ works nice for that
10:57 PM
Well, you COULD write one yourself. But you know, that's work..
Javascript is satanic though so it can't use JS.
Currently uses Dart I think.
Though I hear they now take souls as payment to show you hell even if you've blocked it.
@El'endiaStarman Speaking of the beast number: totient(666) = 6 * 6 * 6
oh and 2^2+3^2+5^2+7^2+11^2+13^2+17^2 = 666 = 1^6-2^6+3^6
and 1000000000000066600000000000001 is prime

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