The Nineteenth Byte

6:00 PM

Elementwise

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ This is almost never actually defined. There are very few situations where it makes sense to add a scalar to every element of a matrix (in math, anyway).

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman really? I was taught this in geometry a week ago

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Oh really. Did your teacher say anything about why it would be useful?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Yeah, transformations.

@QPaysTaxes see ^

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes That can't be true! You can't mean to say that anything you learn in school won't be applied on a daily basis. That's just heresy.

2

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:02 PM

I am forever reading your name as Texas, sorry.

Aaron

Hey there! I was looking for Sp3000, does he often come here?

Alex A.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes Programming uses transformations, esp. graphics.

Geobits

@QPaysTaxes Really? Taxes are easy unless you have unusual circumstances. For most people it shouldn't take more than half an hour or so.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ What sort of transformations? o.O I mean, take the identity matrix I, which does nothing. Then I + 1 would be [[2 1] [1 2]], which has a determinant of 3, which means that any shape will have its area multiplied by 3 after the transformation.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:03 PM

@QPaysTaxes Transformations are useful there.

Geobits

Oh right. I thought you meant something else >_>

Aaron

@QPaysTaxes I hardly ever use the chat ; am I supposed to @ him here?

Geobits

in Game Development, 2 mins ago, by Icy Defiance

@wadry numbers are just concepts. imaginary numbers are just a concept you can't count to from 0. they're well defined, and they're useful, but you're never gonna go "that's sqrt(-1) apples".

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^

Quill

@Geobits now that I think of it, I pretty much tossed away all experience with Art and Music after I left school...

Aaron

6:04 PM

@QPaysTaxes great, thanks !

Helka Homba

Is there an xkcd that mentions Inception and planck time or am I misremembering?

epicTCK

vertix.io

El'endia Starman

@Geobits brb to deliver a smackdown

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman With shapes being represented as [[x1 x2 ... xN] [y1 y2 ... yN]], SHAPE + scalar = moving that shape by scalar units. I concede its not that useful, but still can be in some cases.

Quill

@HelkaHomba separate ones or the same one?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:05 PM

@HelkaHomba In the same comic?

ninjad

@QPaysTaxes bai

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Ahhh, different kind of matrix.

Helka Homba

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ same

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman What kind of matrices were we talking about?

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman Uh oh. Did I accidentally start something?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@HelkaHomba Nope.

El'endia Starman

6:06 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I was talking about the kind of matrices used for transformations, where you multiply vectors by a matrix to get the transformed vector.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman Oh, I see. Yeah that's not particularly useful.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ "Your" matrix is really a list of coordinate pairs, which isn't the same thing.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman It's still a matrix. It's just used differently.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Meh, I'm not gonna bother. They did say that imaginary numbers are useful, which is good enough. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

PPCG v GD

Geobits

6:09 PM

Damn. I guess I need to try harder next time.

Alex A.

Trying is overrated

Geobits

I'll not try to remember that.

Aaron

@Sp3000 Hello ! I was wondering if you would be interested in this abomination or something along the lines for your "Showcase your language" ><> entry

Helka Homba

How this work? youtu.be/11c1OAYJBHo?t=4m29s

quartata

@Geobits Did Minibits get another foil from his second booster pack? What a lucky kid

He's like a golden downvote

Geobits

6:24 PM

Nah, this one's mine ;)

quartata

Oh, OK.

Geobits

I traded in a few of my older cards for a booster box, and that was in the last pack I opened.

FryAmTheEggman

A week or two ago the price on that one in particular would've been crazy high...

Geobits

I think I can probably get another box free of charge if I trade in a few I've opened. The local shop seems to have pretty good rates.

I'm trying to get a Standard collection going, since I didn't have anything newer than Ravnica until a week ago.

quartata

Standard is so overrated

Don't bother

Commander and Modern are where it's at

Geobits

6:28 PM

I know... but the locals here play it (much) more than others, so I'm going to need at least a couple decent decks to play with.

Morgan 'Venti' Thrappuccino

+1 for commander. I played a ton of standard and modern back in the day, but commander is so much more fun.

aditsu

@HelkaHomba what's more puzzling is the language the guy speaks.. it almost sounds like English occasionally

Alex A.

@Geobits When Minibits gets in trouble, do you downvote him?

flawr

Geobits

@AlexA. It's not very often, but yes.

flawr

6:29 PM

FryAmTheEggman

@Geobits Probably better to wait a while for SOI to calm down so you can pick a deck using some of those cards, that way they'll last longer.

Alex A.

@flawr Ugh, too accurate.

@flawr oh god

flawr

I figured more than enough people here could relate.

Alex A.

@FryAmTheEggman Are you British?

Geobits

@FryAmTheEggman I thought of that, but I can always use these in other formats once they rotate out. Considering the bulk of my collection is ancient, it's not like having older cards bothers me ;)

FryAmTheEggman

6:32 PM

@AlexA. No, but uh, why do you ask? :P

Alex A.

@FryAmTheEggman No reason in particular, just wondering. I noticed you've used British English spelling in comments and stuff. (Granted, I think every English speaking country but the US uses British English...)

FryAmTheEggman

@Geobits Yeah I love having lots of cards from different time periods, my only point was that if you get a mostly SOI deck it'll last a few months longer of being standard legal :P

@AlexA. Yeah I'm from one of the ~~colonies~~ strong independent countries.

Alex A.

@FryAmTheEggman Australia?

zyabin101

@flawr From where? sphinxcomics.tumblr.com is blank.

flawr

@zyabin101 v

joshua-wright.tumblr.com/post/142773021329/…

Geobits

6:35 PM

@FryAmTheEggman Oh, I know, but it's no big deal. I do have a huge gap in my "from different time periods" now. I have nothing from Time Spiral to Conspiracy.

FryAmTheEggman

@AlexA. Nope :P

@Geobits For what it's worth Conspiracy is probably my favourite magic product ever. Nothing has ever trumped my feeling of playing a 5/5 haste for G that searched up 3 more from my deck >:D

Alex A.

@FryAmTheEggman Uh... Canada? Malaysia? New Zealand?

FryAmTheEggman

Canada :P

Alex A.

Oh, okay. Canada is nice place.

FryAmTheEggman

Yeah, I certainly like it :)

Alex A.

6:41 PM

I've been to Vancouver and Victoria each a few times, Edmonton when I was young, and I'd like to visit Montreal at some point.

I especially like Vancouver.

Optimizer

@AlexA. so... do you know Victoria's Secret?

Alex A.

Huh, according to Google Maps I'm only a 2 and a half hour drive to Vancouver. I could have sworn it was longer.

@Optimizer I think the secret of Victoria, BC is that it's mostly a tourist trap. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Hello, World!

vXKZELI:{>.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v.^^;}
WJSM{v.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v<;>^^;}
NT{v.>::<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v:^^;}
{fv.>::<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.>>;<<v^^;}
>;<.>>!{v<<.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v<;>^^;}
{v.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v.^^;}
{v.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v.^^;}
>>>.>;>;<<<<.>>.<<<
{v.>::<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v:^^;}
{v.>:<.^;>,<v.^;;v.>>;<<^;v.v.^^;}
{v..^;v..^;;>,<v.^;;v.>>;^<<;v.v.^^;}
v>:<^.vvv?

Only 410 bytes golfed :D

Because I'm bored.

Why is it so long?

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Which language?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

"META".

Alex A.

6:53 PM

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

jsfiddle.net/Conor_OBrien/7kv3Lkwn

Alex A.

@AlexA. @FryAmTheEggman The northern part of your country is amusing. ^^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

bugger off m9

Optimizer

this chat is in Javascript too

FryAmTheEggman

There's a particularly amusing place called "The road to nowhere"

Alex A.

6:57 PM

@FryAmTheEggman :O Where does it lead?

Optimizer

@AlexA. to knowhere

FryAmTheEggman

"The end of the road to nowhere"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

haha

FryAmTheEggman

goo.gl/maps/pAu9V3Uheeq

El'endia Starman

haha, nice

Alex A.

7:07 PM

You as well!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

BAI!

zyabin101

o/

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@QPaysTaxes Read this when you come back here.

zyabin101

> A full explanation will take a ridiculously long time, and now I have to breathe some nice air.

lol

@Doorknob do you have a repo for Babble?

Doorknob

I promised to create one once it's capable of printing Hello, World!

which is almost

Alex A.

7:11 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ chat.stackexchange.com/…

zyabin101

@Doorknob How is your progress?

> 127 messages found

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. bai

zyabin101

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ lol

Alex A.

@zyabin101 Make that 127. :P

zyabin101

@AlexA. \(o_O)/

New Main Posts

7:13 PM

1

Q: Need help analyzing 3D grid (list of lists of lists) for equal adjacent elements in Python in <200 bytes

My Python 3 function golf(...) should take a list of lists of lists of strings representing a solid cube and return whether there are any places in which two equal strings are directly next to each other on the x, y or z axis (not diagonally). If there are no adjacent duplicates, True shall be re...

Doorknob

I proudly present the third ever Babble program

ARRHZLEZLLZLLZLOZTBTZTBHWZLOZLRZLLZLDZTBIZEPUT

It outputs Hello, World!

zyabin101

@Doorknob \o/

Congrats. Now go create a GitHub repo.

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob \o/

zyabin101

297 messages say bai, and almost half of these are from Conor.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

bai

zyabin101

7:16 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ \(o_O)/

@Doorknob in Babble, the letter Z is allocated to escape sequences. But how to output the letter Z?

Alex A.

You could try escaping Z, i.e. ZZ

El'endia Starman

@zyabin101 Probably ZLZ.

Alex A.

Or that

zyabin101

@El'endiaStarman I mean, the uppercase letter Z.

El'endia Starman

@zyabin101 Oh right. Okay, then I'd guess it's Alex's ZZ.

Alex A.

7:20 PM

ZZ Top

ZZ Top /ˈziːziːtɒp/ is an American rock band that formed in 1969 in Houston, Texas. The band is composed of guitarist and lead vocalist Billy Gibbons (the band's leader, main lyricist and musical arranger), bassist and co-lead vocalist Dusty Hill, and drummer Frank Beard. One of just a few major label recording groups to have held the same lineup for more than 45 years, ZZ Top has been praised by critics and fellow musicians alike for their technical mastery. Of the group, music writer Cub Koda said, "As genuine roots musicians, they have few peers; Gibbons is one of America's finest blues guitarists...

Doorknob

github.com/KeyboardFire/babble

@zyabin101 you can't actually haha

ZZ makes sense

oh wait you can with the ZT escape sequence and manually specifying the ASCII code

Alex A.

So it'd be what, like ZT90?

zyabin101

@Doorknob How to specify the ASCII code?

@AlexA. Only chars [A-Z] ever parsed in the code.

Doorknob

@zyabin101 base 25 with A-Y

ZT accepts two base 25 digits

Alex A.

So like ZTJA?

Doorknob

7:24 PM

ZTAJ

Alex A.

Why AJ?

That's 09

Doorknob

err

BK?

watt

Alex A.

If it's zero-indexed it should be JA

Doorknob

A represents 0

Alex A.

Right

J should be 9, yeah?

JA -> 90

Doorknob

7:25 PM

no it's ZTDP for a single Z

3*25 + 15

but now I implemented ZZ anyway

Alex A.

Uh why 3*25 + 15? Those seem like such random numbers

Doorknob

A + 3 = D, A + 15 = P

Alex A.

Yeah but what's the significance of D and P then? Don't you want 90?

The ASCII code for Z is 90

El'endia Starman

3*25 + 15 = 90

Doorknob

^

El'endia Starman

7:27 PM

4 mins ago, by Doorknob

ZT accepts two base 25 digits

Alex A.

Yeah, J = 9, A = 0, those are two base-25 digits, right?

zyabin101

@Doorknob would you make an online interpreter for Babble? If so, when?

Alex A.

TIO

Maybe

Doorknob

if Dennis can get Rust to work

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. That'd give you 9*25 + 0.

Alex A.

7:27 PM

@El'endiaStarman Who is multiplying by 25 and why

Doorknob

5 mins ago, by Doorknob

ZT accepts two base 25 digits

Alex A.

You it is nailed to the Bing >:U

I don't understand base 25 (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Doorknob

you don't understand base 25...?

El'endia Starman

Surely you understand base 16?!

Alex A.

I don't understand anything anymore

(╯>:U）╯︵ U:<

8

zyabin101

7:31 PM

69

A: "Hello, World!"

Brainfuck, 78 bytes Open-ended bounty: If anyone can improve this score, I will pass the bounty (+500) on to them. --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>]<<--.<++++++.<<-..<<.<+.>>.>>.<<<.+++.>>.>>-.<<<+. Try it online! The first 28 bytes --<-<<+[+[<+>--->->->-<<<]>] initialize the tape with the foll...

First time I've seen +1000 rep bounties. :O

Doorknob

@AlexA. um okay, so in base 10, the number 123 is 1 * 100 + 2 * 10 + 3 * 1

in base 25, the number 90 is 3 * 25 + 15 * 1

Alex A.

@zyabin101 It's a combination of bounties. I don't think you can award 1000 at a time.

zyabin101

@AlexA. Yup. That's why I said bounties.

Alex A.

@Doorknob I understand base 25 ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)

zyabin101

>:Uﾉ(U:<ﾉ)

FryAmTheEggman

7:34 PM

@zyabin101 scifi.stackexchange.com/a/105743

That's the highest I've seen not on SO

zyabin101

+3150 REP??? :OOOOO

It's waaaaay high.

El'endia Starman

@FryAmTheEggman That's their one and only post there.

9 different bounties!

FryAmTheEggman

Yup, that's what answering a 4 year old question gets you apparently... :P

El'endia Starman

And answering with research and citations!

Doorknob

 ONEPVBONEPVAADDPVCPUT

1+1 in Babble (outputs 2)

bell just rang so I don't have time to explain it :P

Anonymous

7:40 PM

ding

Anonymous

I'm guessing PVA, PVB, and PVC are registers of some sort, ONEPVB and ONEPVA put 1 into PVA and PVB, ADD adds the values in PVA and PVB, and PVCPUT puts the result of the ADD in PVC.

El'endia Starman

Actually, I think ADD puts the result of PVA + PVB into PVC, then PUT outputs that.

Alex A.

^

El'endia Starman

I don't yet know how PUT knows whether to output from PVC or from ZE.

Anonymous

Ohh, I was thinking PUT as in PUT a in b, not as in int puts(char*);

El'endia Starman

7:44 PM

yeah

29 mins ago, by Doorknob

ARRHZLEZLLZLLZLOZTBTZTBHWZLOZLRZLLZLDZTBIZEPUT

Anonymous

Maybe it's smart and goes by where the last operation stores its result?

El'endia Starman

^^ outputs "Hello World!".

New Main Posts

0

Q: Box-256 Assembmly - BIG SQAURE

I'd like to start a series of challenges for http://box-256.com/ starting with the first challenge, “BIG SQUARE II”. After this one I'll add another for "CHECKERBOARD" and so on. Rules: Complete the BIG SQAURE II challenge in the Box-256 emulator (either on the website or download the progra...

code-challenge graphical-output assembly

zyabin101

I see outside challenges. I think vtc-plz.

status-declined

Anonymous

3

Q: Can I set a challenge using Box-256?

Re-edited for further clarify: I can't believe how much difficulty people are having understanding this question. It's very simple: http://box-256.com/ is an on-line game in which one codes in a form of assembly to solve the puzzles presented on there. Can we ask questions on this site which a...

discussion asking-questions rules

Anonymous

7:48 PM

There's nothing on that site that says posting one of their challenges elsewhere is not allowed

quartata

Yeah the challenge is fine

Anonymous

They don't even have a formal copyright notice or a terms of use

quartata

I thought we had a different tag other than atomic-code-golf for that though

zyabin101

@quartata Fixed.

Alex A.

> I can't believe how much difficulty people are having understanding this question.

:/

kinda rude imo

Anonymous

7:50 PM

And this isn't even copying a challenge here - it's just "solve this challenge on this site", which doesn't violate the copyright

Anonymous

@AlexA. Where do you see that?

Anonymous

@QPaysTaxes It could be said in a much nicer way

Alex A.

@Mego Second sentence in the linked post

Anonymous

@AlexA. Ah. I edited it out.

Alex A.

@QPaysTaxes An edit to clarify without making that kind of comment?

Anonymous

7:53 PM

Although I do think Peter jumped the gun on the dupe vote without fully reading and understanding what the question was asking

Anonymous

To me, it was crystal clear: is there a problem with making a challenge here involving using this site's challenges and programming langauge?

FryAmTheEggman

The first revision was much less clear: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/revisions/8966/1

Anonymous

I read that revision too

Anonymous

I knew exactly what they meant

FryAmTheEggman

I didn't :P

Anonymous

7:55 PM

Either float or decimal/rational (or both)

Anonymous

MPFR and GMP make it less hard

Anonymous

And rationals are easy - you just need 2 ints

FryAmTheEggman

If you don't have BigInts already they can be a pain to implement. Still "easy" but probably "tedious" :P

quartata

@QPaysTaxes Ruby has arbitrary precision Rationals

They're really great and do all sorts of things

I'd be highly surprised if Crystal doesn't also have them

Alex A.

Crystal should have rationals

Anonymous

8:02 PM

@AlexA. Not counting arguments is still fine within ACG. Here's another challenge where only the number of instructions are counted: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/37071/…

quartata

It's been in Ruby for ages

Alex A.

May 1 '15 at 13:16, by Martin Büttner

atomic code golf is such a broken challenge type.

flawr

How about Irrational?

Alex A.

Whatevs. I'll just clear the comments. :P

Anonymous

@AlexA. I don't disagree, but in a few cases it makes sense (like assembly)

Alex A.

8:04 PM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

El'endia Starman

Once I get Pytek fleshed out enough, I might start asking atomic-code-golf questions with it because Pytek has a built-in print-the-AST function, and you can use easily use that to count the atoms.

flawr

Let's evolve: molecular-code-golf

El'endia Starman

Plus, given the way the parser is set up, it would be possible to customize it to parse Python, and the AST print function would still work.

,, I think?

flawr

You mean brainfuck?

El'endia Starman

Note: I've never programmed in BF. :P

quartata

8:10 PM

, doesn't take an integer.

Anonymous

It takes an ASCII character (sometimes extended ASCII, depending on implementation)

flawr

Well you cannot really directly read integers but just character by character.

Anonymous

So if you wanted to input 65, you'd use A

flawr

ShadyAsFuck?

Anonymous

See: Seriously

Anonymous

8:12 PM

BF is the reason why , and . are input and output in Seriously

Quill

7

FryAmTheEggman

s/Seriously/dozens of esolangs

El'endia Starman

@Mego And there the resemblance ends. :P

Anonymous

@FryAmTheEggman I'm speaking specifically for Seriously, since I made it and not the dozens of other esolangs :P

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Nah there's still a lot of resemblances. Both look like garbage.

El'endia Starman

8:13 PM

BF is at least "clean" garbage. :P

Or "pretty", if you prefer.

Alex A.

It's like treated sewage

Doorknob

Okay, so here's an alternative implementation of output(1+1) in Babble that should keep you guessing for a while >:D

SVARVAONEADDPUT

There is no stack

Nathan Merrill

what does VAR do?

I wasn't under that impression, but I may be wrong

Geobits

save/repeat/one/add/put?

Doorknob

Sometimes but not always

Ok here's another hint: ONEPVASVARVAADDPUT outputs the same thing

Nathan Merrill

8:20 PM

lol, is there an esoteric lang that uses its own code as storage?

Alex A.

Extra Smelly Ostrich?

Nathan Merrill

-.-

Geobits

Extremely Suspect Orthography

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Self Modifying BF.

Nathan Merrill

happy?

Geobits

8:21 PM

pretty much yes

El'endia Starman

Also possible with Befunge, ><>, and Minkolang, but not necessary.

Nathan Merrill

so SMBF doesn't have a stack?

Alex A.

Stack Mountain Barn Fool

El'endia Starman

Well, it's a derivative of BF, so it probably has a tape?

Nathan Merrill

right, so I don't think that it counts

FryAmTheEggman

8:22 PM

It has tape that has the code on it to the left of the starting cell if I recall correctly

zyabin101

@AlexA. Stack Mountain Bounty Finder

@FryAmTheEggman It was used for quines. (Before meta consensus disallowed them.)

Nathan Merrill

ok, I need to make a language that can do it.

I probably never will, but it'd be awesome

zyabin101

@Doorknob I think [PSR]VA is for primary/secondary/result variable.

Nathan Merrill

oooh, what about something like marbelous, except its robots, and they actually do something

El'endia Starman

@zyabin101 Oooh, indeed, maybe V denotes a stack in some way? @Doorknob

Nathan Merrill

8:31 PM

4+6

so the above example, the + robot would take the items on all sides and add them

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes I took that to mean there's no global stack, like you would have in Befunge.

FryAmTheEggman

Maybe the S and P variants are arity 1 with R being special and having arity 0? Something like SVA being the successor function and RVA just being a "return zero" function?

Oh no wait it's actually postfix notation if it's the way I was thinking of which doesn't work that way. Don't mind me... :P

Doorknob

Bigger hint: PVGTWOPVDFIVSVGRVASUBPVAPUT is a convoluted way of saying output(5-2) -> 3

FryAmTheEggman

Yeah but when I was thinking about how they might interact I switched to prefix for some reason (too much Pyth...)

zyabin101

So apparently PV[A-Z] is put value into variable defined by third letter.

Maybe.

Lastly, SV[A-Z].