The Nineteenth Byte

El'endia Starman

12:00 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Now that's the sort of reaction I like to see. :D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman :D I'll be using Pytek, it sounds very nice.

List of languages known, in the future: JavaScript, J, Cheddar, and Pytek.

Interview be leik "wtf is that"

El'endia Starman

in Pytek, Mar 31 at 17:50, by El'endia Starman

I'm not worrying about initial confusion. My goal is "Oh, that makes sense." after explanation.

New and/or different concepts are always hard to understand at first.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Like calculus, and set theory

BTW I remember there were going to be set constructors. Is that still a thing?

quartata

yes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:D

El'endia Starman

12:03 AM

Yep! :D

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ By the way, did you see this?

in Pytek, Apr 4 at 19:46, by quartata

type:board() {
  grid = \list(" " * 80) * 24;
}

func:generate() {
  board = board:board();

  side1 = {n | \and(n,2) == 0, 0 <= n < 16, n in \N};
  side2 = {n | \and(n,2) == 2, 0 <= n < 16, n in \N};

  side1 ~= \order -> \list -> \shuffle;
  side2 ~= \order -> \list -> \shuffle;

  \for(room, [6,11] ~ \random -> \range) {
    chunkNum = (room % 2 == 0 ? \pop(side1) : \pop(side2));
    chunkPoint = 20 * (chunkNum % 4) + 5 * (chunkNum / 4)i;
    randomPoint = \random(20) + \re(chunkPoint) + (\random(5) + \im(chunkPoint))i;

I think this is a really good syntax sample

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

What's type?

quartata

Kinda like a class.

El'endia Starman

Defines a type.

Yeah, it's like a class.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman That explains everything.

El'endia Starman

12:05 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :D :P

Dennis

@orlp Sure does.

Ashwin Gupta

Hey, anyone know JS?

How the hell do you add a constructor for objects? (Sorry I'm used to java so I don't know this..)

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Basically, types are int, float, str, etc. You can define your own with type:foo[](){} syntax.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

IDO)

function ClassObject(){
  this.prop = thing;
}

Like that?

Ashwin Gupta

okay I saw that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:06 AM

new ClassObject()

Ashwin Gupta

but here is the thing

what if I want variables and stuff in it

fields

var Alien = {
    health:3,
    x:Math.round(Math.random() * 1000),
    y:Math.round(Math.random() * 1000),
    color: () => (Math.floor(Math.random()* 16777214)).toString(16),
    isAlive: false,
    getHealth: function() {
        return this.health;
    }
}

like I got that

how can I add a constructor for that?

quartata

@AshwinGupta JS is prototype based; it's very very different from Java's class based system

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

function Alien(){
  this.health = 3;
  this.x = ...;
  this.y = ...;
  this.color = ...;
  this.isAlive = false;
  this.getHealth = ...
}

Ashwin Gupta

@quartata clearly LOL. I'll get used to it after a while I'm sure

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Some inspiration comes from Blitz 2D/3D's "class" system, which you can see here: github.com/elendiastarman/arbychess/blob/master/…

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:07 AM

Or define the getHealth in prototype

quartata

I encourage you to find a tutorial on it

Ashwin Gupta

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ oh okay so basically everything goes inside the constructor basically?

even methods and things

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AshwinGupta Yeah. But you can and should define methods under the prototype

quartata

I don't understand it much myself.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Like, Alien.prototype.getHealth = function(){}

Ashwin Gupta

12:08 AM

um

right then

Maltysen

well bascially the thing is that the constructor is the object

Ashwin Gupta

hold up

lemme just wrap my head around this

Maltysen

but you should use prototypes so you can have "classes"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Ashwin Gupta

okay

so wait

is prototype like a predefined keyword?

quartata

12:10 AM

Instead of having a class you have a prototype of the object and instantiate objects by copying the prototype basically

Ashwin Gupta

or just the name for something?

Wait so you are saying that I should define functions for each instance of the object?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AshwinGupta It's a special name that passes all properties of it to each instance of the parent object.

Ashwin Gupta

not for the prototype?

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yeah I'm guessing I'm going to have to find a good tutorial on this. It's very different from what I'm used to. Thanks for the help though.

yup

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AshwinGupta No problem :)

@QPaysTaxes Boi

orlp

guys quick

I need to know

is the riemann hypothesis true or not?

Doorknob

12:13 AM

we don't know that's why it's called a hypothesis

(incidentally, if someone were to correctly answer that question, they would receive $1,000,000)

poi830

well

hopefully prove that there aren't

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes That would be a counter-example. The other option is to prove it.

Ashwin Gupta

@orlp are you taking a test or something xD?

poi830

that would be a mean test question

orlp

@AshwinGupta no was just trying to make a quick million

Ashwin Gupta

12:15 AM

oh xD

poi830

Prove or disprove the Riemann Hypothesis. (100 points)

Ashwin Gupta

@poi830 probably. I don't even know what that is...

El'endia Starman

@orlp Probably, and the vast majority of mathematicians do believe it is true, and there are even a whole bunch of proofs that would be true if the Riemann Hypothesis is true...but no one actually knows.

poi830

^

terence tao thinks we are close to solving RH

El'endia Starman

Oooh, exciting.

orlp

12:17 AM

@El'endiaStarman I know, was just trying to make a joke :)

btw I surpassed 50k on SO

woo

Ashwin Gupta

ok

I think I sorta get it

prototypes are like classes

right?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I honestly would rather know the continuum hypothesis's truth

El'endia Starman

@orlp Congrats!

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AshwinGupta Pretty much

Ashwin Gupta

ok

poi830

12:18 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ undecidable in ZFC

Ashwin Gupta

and is their inheritance?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@poi830 Proven undecidable?

poi830

yes

Continuum hypothesis

In mathematics, the continuum hypothesis (abbreviated CH) is a hypothesis about the possible sizes of infinite sets. It states: There is no set whose cardinality is strictly between that of the integers and the real numbers. The continuum hypothesis was advanced by Georg Cantor in 1878, and establishing its truth or falsehood is the first of Hilbert's 23 problems presented in 1900. Τhe answer to this problem is independent of ZFC set theory (that is, Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory with the axiom of choice included), so that either the continuum hypothesis or its negation can be added as an axiom to...

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes. You can include its truth or falsehood as an axiom.

orlp

@poi830 not undecidable

independent

poi830

12:19 AM

independent

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Oh, I see.

I misread that part I guess

poi830

wait those are equivalent

orlp

I believe there is a subtle difference between the two

poi830

undecidable has 2 meanings

one of which = independent

but the only one that makes sense in that context is the one that means independent

Ashwin Gupta

hmm that didn't format well...

oh well xD.

orlp

12:21 AM

@poi830 hrm, as a CS guy I guess the computability theory 'undecidable' got me confused

poi830

yeah i mostly do math over CS so i didnt even think of that lol

...why 500?

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes Are you doing 9-bit bytes? o.O

(I guess words would be a better choice than bytes, but eh.)

orlp

@El'endiaStarman he might have two prefixes

Doorknob

    let mut b = babble::babble::Babble::new();

@Doorknob come on Rust

orlp

e.g. as an example for Pyth

poi830

12:22 AM

lmao

orlp

.x and $x

El'endia Starman

@orlp True, that could do it.

orlp

where . and $ are prefixes of a two-letter command

poi830

eight digits?

base 8?

do commands include operators

El'endia Starman

@QPaysTaxes Take a look here for inspiration (scroll down). :P

poi830

12:26 AM

ok so + - * /

also why is your language

what is its purpose

nice

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

...is two words?

poi830

im scared

no, the code for it is "... uh, gimme a sec"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Hopefully it's shorter than my recent hw XD

poi830

read hw as homework and was very confused

Doorknob

ARRHZLEZLLZLLZLOZTBTZTBHWZLOZLRZLLZLDZTBIZEPUT

by the way, Babble should achieve Turing-completeness soon

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:30 AM

\o/

poi830

how can you be sure

Doorknob

@poi830 parallels to BF commands

poi830

ah ok

wait

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Reduction to a TC language implies TC of the former language.

poi830

can you translate BF into babble then?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:32 AM

It doesn't need to be bijective.

But yeah, supposedly.

Doorknob

probably

poi830

if it has parallels to BF commands can't you just translate from the BF version to the babble version

Alex A.

I wonder if anyone has a Brainfuck implementation with multithreading support.

multifuck

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

I sincerely hope so.

Nathan Merrill

@poi830 not necessarily. I could do additional things that BF can't do

turing complete doesn't mean "can do anything in programming"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:41 AM

@NathanMerrill Almost anything, though

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

In a turing machine, You can do anything with infinite time and memory.

Love.

Can or can't?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Infinitely go on.

quartata

Uncomputable problems like busy beaver

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Since a TM is theoretical, it's unbounded.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Technically, Turing machines don't exist.

I'm not the right person to ask.

But I think they can calculate anything "Computable"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:44 AM

@QPaysTaxes Anything that can't be done on a computer can't be on a programming langauge

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Programming languages are a superset of Turing Machines.

quartata

oh wait I misunderstood your question

Nathan Merrill

we are biased to what we can see

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

But with less time and memory.

Nathan Merrill

for example, a turing machine can never solve the halting problem

cat

12:45 AM

hi! :D

quartata

The Church Turing Thesis says that turing machines are ewuivalent to any other computational model

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

And that they have religion

:P

cat

ewuivalent

Nathan Merrill

@QPaysTaxes Only as we define it. Maybe there's a programming language out there that can solve it

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@NathanMerrill -1 argument from silence

Nathan Merrill

12:46 AM

sure, it'd be written on a totally different computer

regardless, a program that could solve the halting problem would also be turing complete

quartata

so to answer your question no

cat

2 hours ago, by Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Rule 1: don't name your language after a consumable, whether it be Cheddar, Pretzels, Pythons, or Java.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

A programming language can simulate a finite Turing machine, so the only thing a real turing machine can do that a programming language can't is calculate something that requires more memory then a programming language has.

Nathan Merrill

you mean can't*?

cat

^ can't*?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

12:47 AM

Can't?

Nathan Merrill

they are in the same computational class

meaning they can compute the same things

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

:P

Nathan Merrill

but they will be faster at certain types of problems

cat

@QPaysTaxes we saw nuthin

@QPaysTaxes to or from?

kbai

k c:

O:

anyone else ever noticed the resemblance between the copyleft symbol and comedy central's logo?!

illuminati!!

quartata

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:50 AM

~~^~~

orlp

@Dennis lambda n,m=2,M=1,l=[]:M<=n and r(n,m+1,m*M/gcd(m,M),l+[n%m])or l or[0]

poi830

▽

orlp

It seems @Neil has gotten this approach first though, I didn't see his answer

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ᵥ

Easterly Irk

Hai.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:53 AM

WELCOME BACK! That wasn't a week

Can't stay long. :P

bai :(

Hai! @EasterlyIrk

On a iPad while mom picks up sister and drops off brother.

cat

~~eww, apple~~

Easterly Irk

12:55 AM

@cat I did see you "Bali

wtf ipad

cat

xD

Easterly Irk

i meant the bye bye byee message you sent

have to say bye bc iPad doesn't know txtspk apparently. :P

Ashwin Gupta

Trying to turn this function into a lambda in JS:
function translateCoord(x,y,w,h) {
var point = [x-0.5*w, y-0.5*h];
return point;
}
Is this the right way to do it:?
var point = (x,y,w,h) => [x-0.5*w, y-0.5*h]

Easterly Irk

@Downgoat js

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

yes.

cat

12:56 AM

yes! @AshwinGupta

Ashwin Gupta

great

lol

ty

Easterly Irk