The Nineteenth Byte

Alex A.

00:00

If people are still using Rust in 262k years, I think something will have gone terribly wrong.

mınxomaτ

OS X system log.

Alex A.

TFW your system shrugs at you

quartata

@Adnan The "pop ..." thing by the commands in the docs indicates the arity, correct?

@Doorknob why do you need dates bigger than 262,000 years from the epoch? are you trying to make a PPCG graduation countdown?

19

Doorknob

help I keep mistyping "metadata" as "meatdata"

mınxomaτ

I have no idea what that was about, but I still watched it.

quartata

00:10

mmm meatdata

El'endia Starman

> Cat Pictures ##

...not sure this video will be worth the time. :P

mınxomaτ

It is. Afterwards you know Swedish.

El'endia Starman

Not sure that'll help me. I'm working on learning German... :P

quartata

Do we get Swedish Fish for watching?

El'endia Starman

Is that the gummy fish-shaped candy?

quartata

00:13

Ye.

Anonymous

@AlexA. Bird soup

Doorknob

Let me take a moment to appreciate how mind-blowingly awesome Rust's lifetime/borrowing system is

So, I kept getting "this string does not live long enough" errors

I couldn't make them go away

mınxomaτ

@El'endiaStarman No.

feersum

Your string lived more than 262,000 years?

Doorknob

Then I realized that I was trying to access slices of that string, which occupy the same location in memory, after the string went out of scope

quartata

00:14

@Mego What a coincidence! I'm having doorknob soup.

Doorknob

In C and friends, this would have been a segfault

And it would have taken so much longer to debug

@quartata ಠ_ಠ

Alex A.

Kinda metallic

Okay with a little hot sauce

Anonymous

In C and friends, if the string had gone out of scope, it would've been plainly obvious why accessing the string wouldn't work. If you need slices, you have to make new string variables and assign the pieces.

quartata

you should be flattered I'm a picky eater

(not really)

Alex A.

@Doorknob Strings have "lifetimes"? o_O

Doorknob

00:16

Oh, and did I mention these slices were hidden away inside a Vec, which was in turn inside a struct, being stored longer than it should have inside a HashMap with a longer lifetime ('a) than the original string

It's kind of amazing that Rust was able to correct me on this

Alex A.

Wtf is a lifetime

El'endia Starman

What would have happened with Python?

Anonymous

@AlexA. In non-butterfly-unicorn speak it's called a scope

Alex A.

Oh

...why wouldn't they call it a scope

Doorknob

@AlexA. Yes, string slices that are stored on the stack and not the heap have their own lifetimes

@Mego no it's not a scope

well, it's kinda a scope, but that's the simplified definition

Anonymous

00:17

Because Rust is DiFfErEnT and uniQue and special~

feersum

Could be nice in some cases, but annoying as hell when you know the string will be alive but the compiler can't tell.

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman in Python, strings are dynamically allocated, so this doesn't apply

El'endia Starman

ah, okay

Doorknob

Rust has a dynamically allocated String type

but &str (string slices) are not

feersum

Python is garbage collected.

Doorknob

00:19

yeah

Anonymous

Reference counting and garbage collection and GIL yay!

Doorknob

Rust doesn't have a GC, but it has all the benefits of one without the overhead ^.^

quartata

And it's come to collect Rust.

Alex A.

@Doorknob You're nearly 11 years my junior and yet you know way more about computer science stuff than I do.

._.

Anonymous

@AlexA. What did you major in, in college? (Or did you not go to college?)

feersum

00:20

My grandma is over 80 and I know even more CS stuffs than my grandma whoooaaa

Anonymous

I feel like I've asked that a million times, but I keep forgetting

quartata

Stats I think

Anonymous

Stats would make sense

Alex A.

@Mego I got a bachelor's in math with a minor in stats. Doing a master's in applied stats now

Anonymous

Ahh

Doorknob

00:20

@AlexA. You know waaay more about stats-related stuff that I probably ever will. And I know more about living in Houston than you. Different skills, different experiences :P

Alex A.

Having never been to Houston, I can tell you that I know far more than any person alive about life in Houston.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Anonymous

I know a lot more about software engineering than computer science, despite my degree being in the latter

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^ what is this? o_o

Doorknob

bad code

El'endia Starman

00:21

Fork bomb.

Nasty code.

Doorknob

no, just stack overflow

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ causes a stackoverflow

It's on the PPCG 404 page

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Naive corecursion example and a stack overflow waiting to happen

El'endia Starman

Oh, TIL.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat That;s where I found it.

quartata

00:21

Hence why it is the 404 for SO

Doorknob

no it's not

El'endia Starman

Fork bombs are for shell scripts, right?

Doorknob

the SO 404 is like a Befunge/C/other stuff quine

iirc

@El'endiaStarman you can have a fork bomb in any language

it's where the program runs multiple copies of itself without a check/condition

Downgoat

6

A: Graduation Design Ideas

Stack Overflow 404 message This comment got some up votes, so let me post it as an answer. Maybe someone will want to incorporate this into their UserScript! If you get a 404 on Stack Overflow, you see a polyglot. We should have something similar, but instead we show a random code from Shortest...

Alex A.

@feersum :/ Not what I meant.

quartata

00:22

@El'endiaStarman Fork bombs can be done in C, but you have to use fork

Doorknob

so more processes keep getting spawned without any way to stop them

feersum

I fork bombed myself in Windows a while back.

El'endia Starman

Anonymous

include<sys/fork.h>\nmain(){while(1)fork();}

PhiNotPi

If programming languages were weapons

El'endia Starman

00:23

^^^ SO 404.

Alex A.

feersum

With CreateProcess.

quartata

@Doorknob oh right it is a BF/Befunge/C polyglot

El'endia Starman

There's BF code in there...

Doorknob

the standard Bash fork bomb is f() { f | f & }; f

El'endia Starman

00:23

A polyglot? Huh!

Doorknob

lots of times you'll see it with : instead of f (and less whitespace) for extra confusion points :P

Anonymous

web.archive.org/web/20071001004937/http://members.verizon.net/…

Anonymous

@Doorknob It also looks like a funny emoticon that way: :(){ :|:& };:

Dennis

^ not valid Bash

Alex A.

My dad used to always make a mustache emoticon :{)

Doorknob

00:26

@Dennis yeah, that's what I thought

Dennis

503

Q: Why is whitespace sometimes needed around metacharacters?

A few months ago I tattooed a fork bomb on my arm, and I skipped the whitespaces, because I think it looks nicer without them. But to my dismay, sometimes (not always) when I run it in a shell it doesn't start a fork bomb, but it just gives a syntax error. bash: syntax error near unexpected tok...

Anonymous

helpmyspacebarisbroken

El'endia Starman

@Mego Here you go: " "

Anonymous

thxm8

PhiNotPi

From /r/programmerhumor: vanilla-js.com

El'endia Starman

00:27

.....I literally just copy-pasted a space. What is wrong with me.

Doorknob

Can I also take a moment to mention how amazing vim's mark feature is? I'm jumping between my struct and the stuff I'm using it in seamlessly without any thought required: just 's for struct and 'c for code

@El'endiaStarman :D

Dennis

Of course, using parens instead of curly brackets is forkier and golfier.

Anonymous

$jq('#test-table');

Anonymous

What is this

Doorknob

jQuery?

El'endia Starman

00:28

jQuery

Doorknob

ninja'd

Anonymous

In jQuery it's just $('#test-table');

Doorknob

with less confidence :P

@Mego you can name the jQuery variable whatever you want

Alex A.

@Dennis New challenge type: code fork.

El'endia Starman

^^

Anonymous

00:29

@Doorknob But why

El'endia Starman

Conflicts with Prototype, perhaps.

Doorknob

if you have something else on the page that's already using $

Anonymous

But why would you use anything but jQuery?

Doorknob

because contrary to popular belief, it does not do all things

El'endia Starman

In some cases, it's because you let someone else add code... :P

Anonymous

00:30

@El'endiaStarman Well that's an incredibly poor choice

El'endia Starman

I was actually taught Prototype first in college because the teachers figured it would be simpler/easier to teach.

Anonymous

@Doorknob Heresy!

El'endia Starman

Naturally, I forgot everything, and went with jQuery the second time I got into web development. :P

Alex A.

@Doorknob In a bizarre plot twist, it turns out that jQuery cannot query.

Anonymous

I was never taught JS in college. Just PHP, and only the bare minimum for interacting with MySQL

Anonymous

00:31

It was in a DBs class so JS/PHP were very much not the focus

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

who's using jQuery?ಠ_ಠ

El'endia Starman

I am.

Anonymous

Everybody

El'endia Starman

Suck it.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ಠ_ಠ

I'll eat dinner now.

Anonymous

00:32

Suck it, blues

El'endia Starman

Blues? He's green.

With envy...

orlp

WHAT THE HELL

ITS 1:40 AM

Doorknob

hahaha

orlp

@El'endiaStarman WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE TIME?!

you WITCH!

I'm blaming you!

Alex A.

El'endia is a reasonable scapegoat for matters of the intangible.

Doorknob

00:41

19 hours ago, by Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman Help it's past midnight and you've sucked me into a neverending pit of linguistics :D

El'endia seems to have a thing with that

orlp

@El'endiaStarman Is there any progress on the mysterious 36 and 94?

Or do they remain elusive?

Doorknob

oh yeah that thing

orlp

@Doorknob Why is it that when I google image search 'doorknob' most of them have keyholes in them?

like this:

Doorknob

It's the most common genus

orlp

why does it have a keyhole?

it's a perfectly ordinary doorknob, and then suddenly BAM keyhole

Anonymous

00:46

@orlp That's terrifying

Doorknob

I have a keyhole

El'endia Starman

@orlp I've been thinking about Pytek in the meantime.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Battle Snake King-of-the-hill proposal. Introduction The classic snake game where bots control the snakes. Can you create a bot that out lives the rest? Snakes will enter the arena and hope to survive. Eat pellets and grow in length. Can you force your competition to crash and die while your ...

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Most of my brain has been sacrificed to Pytek

El'endia Starman

lol

quartata

00:47

Also is it just me or have there not been a lot of questions today?

Anonymous

Most doors with non-deadbolt locks have the locks in the doorknobs (which simply prevent the doorknob from turning while locked)

Alex A.

@quartata It's Sunday

quartata

@AlexA. True

Alex A.

We get more traffic on weekdays when people are bored at work

orlp

@AlexA. why does that matter?

Doorknob

00:48

Aditsu's Law

Anonymous

We need more, so that we aren't at risk of losing the 10

orlp

do people post more challenges if they get less sun?

quartata

@Mego We're still at 10.6 don't fret

Alex A.

26 secs ago, by Alex A.

We get more traffic on weekdays when people are bored at work

quartata

@orlp Yes we're very light sensitive

El'endia Starman

00:48

Oh, there was the GoL Tetris thing too. Spent a little time on that.

And plus, there's the time spent on learning German... :P

aditsu

I solved the 2nd-highest voted unanswered challenge :p

quartata

@aditsu Which one?

aditsu

"Fix the Meeesesessessesseesseessedessed upp teeexexextext" :)

quartata

Ah yes.

Alex A.

@aditsu Link pls I want to shower you with upvotes

quartata

00:54

I was somewhat surprised it didn't have any answers; it seemed pretty simple.

Anonymous

That's one that I look at frequently but never decided to put in the effort to solving :P

quartata

30

Q: Fix the Meeesesessessesseesseessedessed upp teeexexextext

This is inspired by Monday Mini-Golf #6: Meeesesessess upp teeexexextext Background ETHproductions have difficulty entering text on his usual webpage. Whenever he use digits or letters, the text will be meeesesessessesseesseessedessed up. Your task is to help him type so the normal behavior is ...

code-golf string

Doorknob

@AlexA. +1 is a shower?

aditsu

@AlexA. hahaha, ok, oh there ^

Alex A.

@Doorknob In California where there's a water shortage, yes.

Doorknob

00:54

sheesh that is the longest CJam code I've seen

aditsu

it has room for some more golfing, but it's already under 256 :)

trichoplax

@Doorknob +1 per sock is...

feersum

What do you guys recommend to do to learn about a new programming language?

Anonymous

If(Cond, IfTrue, IfFalse)

feersum

Usually I solve some easy problems in an online judge, but that won't work for Mathematica.

Anonymous

00:57

@feersum Go through Rosetta Code and implement some of the simpler stuff

Alex A.

Maybe I'll keep it a mystery

El'endia Starman

ಠ_ಠ

Alex A.

( ^ ͜ʖ^)

Doorknob

@AlexA. this is next-level lenny abuse

trichoplax

@feersum learnxinyminutes.com

Alex A.

01:00

hahahaah

@Doorknob I do what I can to further the cause

Anonymous

Shouldn't this discussion go in the Pytek room? :P

aditsu

@feersum solve some codegolf challenges (without the golfing aspect)

quartata

@Mego Sorry

El'endia Starman

@Mego I was thinking that too. :P

quartata

@El'endiaStarman do that super cool move message thing

El'endia Starman

01:01

will do

Anonymous

@quartata Oh it's not bothering me any, I just thought it might be better if all of the chat/planning was centrally located in there :P

quartata

@Mego Yeah.

I actually thought for a second this was the Pytek room until I noticed aditsu

Little... unaware... today

feersum

@aditsu That could work

Doorknob

@aditsu hm, that's actually a neat idea

El'endia Starman

→ 32 messages moved to Pytek

Doorknob

01:04

solve code golf challenges with good code. People could even make Github repositories with those

El'endia Starman

whoosh

Alex A.

~~~~~~

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

github.com/molarmanful/aplkeyboard-mac

aditsu

@quartata I should join that room to confuse you :p

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

Just an APL keyboard for Mac users.

Doorknob

01:06

Just an APL keyboard for Alex

golfier synonym :P

Alex A.

@ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ ( ^ ͜ʖ^) looks neat

@Doorknob ( ಠ_ʖಠ)

Downgoat

chatgoat is having an identity crisis...

Alex A.

Marky Goatov

4

Downgoat

Chatgoat needs friends..

1 min ago, 1 second total – 2 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 26 secs ago by Downgoat

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

@AlexA. Anyone tested it? I think I screwed up my Mac so that trying to add new keyboard layouts crashes SysPref. (?)

Alex A.

01:16

I haven't test it

aditsu

woohoo, 2 badges :p

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Chatgoat V Marky going down right now.

LegionMammal978

I guess I learned something today

{"error_id":502,"error_message":"too many requests from this IP, more requests available in 71788 seconds","error_name":"throttle_violation"}

71788 seconds is about 20 hours

Calvin's Hobbies

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ can you link? I'm on mobile

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/32979/chatgoats-barn

It's terrifying.

aditsu

01:26

@LegionMammal978 what service is that?

also, just use a different ip :p

Alex A.

@aditsu Looks like the error object from the SE API.

@LegionMammal978 You'll have to wait until UTC midnight for your API quota to reset. You only get 300 requests per day without a key.

quartata

ATTENTION ALL PPCG HOBOS:

func:isPrime(n) {
  return (1..n~\product,n->\mod) == n - 1
}

Does this code look pretty

feersum

No this code doesn't make you look fat at all.

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

@quartata -1 too much whitespace.

quartata

@ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ <n:1..n~\product,n->\mod==n-1>

There.

orlp

01:40

MUSTARD AND CHEESE

YEAAA

quartata

Actually <n:\product(1..n)%n==n-1> is shorter

But the point of the focus group was to find out if people like chains

Downgoat

proof that Chatgoat's brain is incredibly slow

orlp

@Downgoat where do downgoats and chatgoats come from?

how is babby formed?

Alex A.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Downgoat

in Chatgoat's Barn, Feb 4 at 2:45, by Uᴘɢᴏᴀᴛ

Alex A.

01:43

@quartata No

orlp

@AlexA. yes

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

@quartata Ah much better.

Alex A.

@orlp ok

orlp

who wants to be my friend?

<3

Alex A.

@orlp me

<#

quartata

01:45

@orlp You liked chains?

You... you like this code?

FINALLY

Doorknob

@AlexA. capital 3

Alex A.

@Doorknob Yes

@quartata No

orlp

@quartata what are chains

quartata

@orlp the code thingy

Anonymous

It's the thing tacit languages use

orlp

01:47

tacit?

tacit

Adjective: tacit ‎(comparative more tacit, superlative most tacit)

Expressed in silence; implied, but not made explicit; silent.
tacit consent : consent by silence, or by not raising an objection
1983, Stanley Rosen, Plato’s Sophist: The Drama of Original & Image, page 62:
He does this by way of a tacit reference to Homer.
2004, Developing Democracy in Europe: An Analytical Summary (Lawrence Pratchett, ‎Vivien Lowndes; ISBN 9287155798):

(2 more not shown…)

quartata

Point-free.

Anonymous

Tacit programming

Tacit programming, also called point-free style, is a programming paradigm in which function definitions do not identify the arguments (or "points") on which they operate. Instead the definitions merely compose other functions, among which are combinators that manipulate the arguments. Tacit programming is of theoretical interest, because the strict use of composition results in programs that are well adapted for equational reasoning. It is also the natural style of certain programming languages, including APL and its derivatives, and concatenative languages such as Forth. Despite this base, the...

quartata

It's what APL does.

Pytek is going to have a way of doing tacit programming called chains.

Alex A.

@quartata Not all of APL is point-free. Trains and stuff were added after J became a thing. J is all point-free.

If I'm not mistaken, Jelly is also entirely tacit.

orlp

I still don't really understand the difference

how would you handle functions with arity 2?

Alex A.

01:57

Tacit programming confuses the hell out of me, but the example I can think of is a dyadic function in APL. The function is used as an infix operator with the arguments on either side.

quartata

This technically is concatenative not tacit

Alex A.

Idk what that means

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/36046/testing-bots-again

Someone say something in here?

Anonymous

@orlp Right and left args

orlp

@Mego that doesn't work

Anonymous

01:59

So like + would be an arity 2 function (dyadic), so you would use it like 3 + 4

orlp

print 3 + 4

is that (print 3) + 4

Chatgoat needs friends..

Transcript for