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5:00 AM
@El'endiaStarman Is that... something to change?
 
That's not the problem. Try writing a web scraper yourself first. It's a little tedious, i.e. not nearly enough fun
 
I have...
it isn't that hard...
just think about everything slowly, and take it into account...
it only took about 15-20 min...
 
It's also not particularly fun or interesting to me.
And apparently, to others.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ՊՓԼՃՐՊՃՈԲՍԼPhinomenal phractions Background As many of y'all may know, Phi, or (1+sqrt(5))/2, is the Golden Ratio, a number with a whole lot of interesting properties. One of these properties are its continuing phraction phorm, or 1+1/(1+1/(1+1/...)). This phinomenal pattern has earned Phi the reputatio...

 
@ՊՓԼՃՐՊՃՈԲՍԼ Hmm. I'd say yes. Fractions are simply consecutive terms of the Fibonacci sequence divided by one another. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a trivial modification, but it's not much of one.
 
5:04 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies @Maltysen @Doorknob @AlexA. @Quill What's up with all the pings?
 
Now, if there are fractions that can be simplified, then that may suffice.
 
@Hosch250 Huh?
 
@Hosch250 People like bandwagoning.
 
Obviously.
 
Myself included, sometimes. :P
Well, really, it's more like it's a bit fun to see how long the pattern continues, or how other people change it.
 
5:06 AM
So you said you're a college student, @Hosch250?
 
Yeah.
 
s/college/university/, if you're outside of the US
Nice. What are you studying?
 
I'm attending the University of MN Crookston.
 
Sounds cold :P
 
The online ITM major + Communication minor.
@AlexA. I'm near St. Paul.
I wish I was up there. I hate it here. I can hardly wait to get away.
 
5:07 AM
You hate St. Paul?
 
I hate my city, and I don't like cities in general.
 
More of a rural person?
 
Yeah.
I can't look anywhere without seeing someone's ugly house, garbage dump, or something.
I've got to leave now, TTYL.
 
Okay, have a good evening!
 
@Hosch250 What did I ping you?
 
5:15 AM
@Quill o/
 
oh, bye then
 
That's what you pinged him with
 
I realised... lol
 
@Quill By RMunroe? Troll alert. :P
 
5:20 AM
That's just what we named the feed @AlexA. IIRC
 
That's what I guessed.
 
Oh, you have an xkcd feed?
 
yep and here
 
Ah, okay.
 
Anonymous
We need one of those
 
5:23 AM
...
I'm not doing it.
 
Anonymous
Hey Alex...
 
Anonymous
You know how you're my best friend?
 
6
Q: Do we want XKCD autposted in chat?

Calvin's HobbiesEl'endia Starman, a moderator, but not a PPCG moderator, has recently added an XKCD RSS feed to our chatroom The Nineteenth Byte, apparently based on the suggestion of one other user. I am vehemently against this addition to our list of feeds for a number of reasons: It was done non-democratic...

 
Anonymous
:(
 
fair enough then
I don't know why it might've got out of hand
we've never had an issue with it
we also get commitstrip posted
 
5:26 AM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
 
Somebody messed up.
 
I just did some queries regarding unclosed questions tagged . Only 15 remain open. We have 6 "pure" programming puzzles, the most recent of which was posted nearly 2 years ago. There were 5 programming puzzles posted in 2015, all of which are closed. So why do people think it's a good idea to keep "Programming Puzzles" in the site name?!
3
 
Methinks some people (including me) don't really want to give the impression that this site is only about code golf.
 
And Stack Overflow isn't only about stack overflow errors.
 
5:32 AM
Though I'd be fine with renaming to just "Code Golf" because it does make sense as it's the vast majority of what we do and everything else is an addition.
 
Then Code Sport is probably more appropriate
 
That's my favorite option. Code Sports
 
"Code Sport" makes my skin crawl.
Code Sports is okay but I'm not a big fan.
3 hours ago, by Alex A.
The entire Stack Exchange network knows us as Code Golf and has no idea what "PPCG" is.
Personally I think we should just stick with the name we had when the site started: Code Golf.
 
I think a lot of people who know what "Code Golf" is will be like "What's Code Sports" if you had the name changed
but simply Code Golf is cool
 
I agree.
Btw, I love Code Review's favicon. You guys got lucky. :D
 
5:35 AM
Agreed - it's superb.
On a different topic, I'm mulling over the idea of doing operations on if conditionals.
 
What does that mean?
 
That's part of what I'm pondering.
 
Haha okay.
 
Assuming everyone here knows ternary conditionals...
 
Well, in R you can put if in the middle of all sorts of crap.
 
5:37 AM
Consider (a ? b : c) \xor (d ? e : f).
 
I am considering it.
 
Perhaps that could be (a \xor d) ? {something} : {something}?
 
Oh, you mean like some kind of associativity or something for how an operation could apply to a conditional?
 
Hmmmmmm
 
5:41 AM
Like, you can multiply functions by saying that c = a * b means that c(x) = a(x) * b(x).
As an axiom, that is.
Can you multiply if conditionals?
Is there a way to do so that's useful?
 
> (5%2 ? 4 : 2) * ((4*20) % 6 ? 1 : 5)
returns 4
 
> 420
 
You can multiply ternary results, not necessarily the ternaries themselves
 
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 46 secs ago, by nicael
http://meta.stackexchange.com/help/badges/41/reversal - lol
 
5:48 AM
@Quill hahaha wow...
 
ahahaha
 
I wonder how many up/down votes I would get if I posted an answer that just said the same things as the others...
In different words, of course.
Plagiarism is bad.
 
6:03 AM
most of them are pretty much saying the same thing
 
But there are at least new points in them, right?
 
Most of them
 
Anonymous
I can sum up all the meta arguments really quick:
 
Anonymous
1. You didn't think this through.
2. Closed as unclear.
3. [tag:citation-needed]
 
Anonymous
(pretend the tag worked)
 
6:06 AM
Someone speculated that the reason they're being so secretive about it (with Dave Fullerton, the VP of engineering, even saying that he can't say much for reasons he doesn't understand) is that they were sued by some company, citing licensing issues.
Seems vaguely plausible.
 
probably something along those lines
or their lawyers just said "don't talk about it"
 
And you certainly don't talk about something your lawyer tells you not to talk about
 
I'm honestly interested in what they say next. First they said the change would be made Jan 1, then backlash prompted them to push it back to Feb 1, now it's Mar 1.
 
And the post is at -120 total score
I'd call that backlash. :P
 
Definitely.
 
6:21 AM
So will it bump another month?
 
I think what they should do at this point is go "Okay, here are the problems we have: 1) 2) 3). How do you think we should fix them?"
 
Maybe they'll mention it once every month and each month it'll have exponentially more downvotes than the previous months.
 
Anonymous
6:32 AM
@El'endiaStarman ^ is much more likely imo
 
I upvoted the original proposal because I think it was an interesting thing to discuss, but I didn't realize that would be misconstrued as support for the proposal. -_-
As I mentioned to Hosch250 earlier,
4 hours ago, by Alex A.
@Hosch250 I want it to die in fire
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 AM
@AlexA. What is this about? The MIT license thing?
Also, I'm thinking of writing a version of Piet that uses ASCII for writing out the codels, and then is interpreted to an image of the codels themselves, because I don't like how the one decent IDE I've found is basically a modified version of the MS Paint color picker.
 
7:55 AM
@Sherlock9 Yup.
 
I don't understand this license debate
who the fuck cares about getting attribution for code they put in an answer seriously
it goes against the spirit of the website
 
DUDE. Anyone recognize a certain pattern? :P
This shows it too.
 
8:18 AM
Very cool
 
8:51 AM
@Rainbolt do you mind if I expand your nomination of lab rat race a bit? I'd like to draw some attention to the fact that several members of the community worked on it for two or three weeks.
 
user image
3
B3/S012345678 starting with a cross in the middle where each arm is 4 squares long.
So beautiful.
I wonder if all crosses eventually stop or if at least one produces "vines".
 
hi @El'endiaStarman
 
Crosses of sizes 5 and 6 make smaller shapes.
Likewise for 7. And 8. I think I'm gonna stop there.
By the way, a cross of size 3 produces the same shape as pictured above.
 
9:17 AM
This might grow forever, but 100x100 isn't enough to know... :(
I think vines do eventually sprout (as in, I see the very beginnings of what are probably vines), which would confirm it to be an infinite growth pattern.
 
how do i play it at a high speed?
 
It's so big you can't really.
I need to optimize the update algorithm. It's the naive one right now.
But there's at least one further optimization for this specific rule that I won't implement because this is supposed to be a generic simulator.
I'm seriously considering writing a separate program just for this. :P
 
you need to optimize your html
srsly, svg?
srsly?
 
...
I'm using D3.js.
 
so?
D3 is not even the right library for your usecase
its not even closeby
in the vicinity of use cases
 
9:29 AM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
dude
I can gaurantee you that you can achieve 100 ticks per second on 1000 by 1000 size with each cell of 5 size
 
Feel free to do so.
 
@Optimizer If you want to optimize it, you can help rewrite it. It's in your name, too :P
 
why should I? :D
this would not be called optimization. it would be called rewriting coz of a bad design choice
 
I've gotten my Piet character to codel transpiler to work! I just need to 1) commit it to GitHub and 2) name it something other than char_to_codel
 
9:32 AM
hey guys!
 
Hello
 
Aaand yep, vines. I only had to increase the width by 20 to see. Now, a lobe further up might interfere with that.
 
so I am making a stack based language for the sake of it...
but the code doesn't work...
 
?
 
9:36 AM
It's friday
 
Wow, I thought that died a while ago.
 
@AlexA. Where is that side room?
 
lol
 

 Code Golfer's Corner

Discussion specific to golfing code. For general PPCG chatter ...
I just unfroze it.
 
9:57 AM
@Doorknob Thank you!
 
@Optimizer: I optimized it. Try it now. (Be sure to do a hard refresh.)
 
@quartata I Thanks! I found out yesterday, and we were polishing some details. It was a big surprise for me. I'm so happy!
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ How about this? It converts the first input into double, leaving the second as it is
 
@LuisMendo wow! PogChamp
 
10:21 AM
@El'endiaStarman that's what i am talking about!
you just needed a little push!
 
yeah
The fix was this: if a cell doesn't change, don't update it graphically.
Made all the difference.
 
didn't you switch to canvas?
 
nope
haha
 
switch to it then
you'll see exponential increase
 
Nah. I'm basically done with it and I'd rather not learn a new technology just to remake it.
 
10:26 AM
lazy
 
More like I'm trying to make myself finish projects.
 
projects never finish
 
^
 
For Variations of Life, I've got a render-to-gif feature I want to program. For the Minkolang Online Interpreter, I've got a memory limitation to implement, then I'll be done. For Minkolang itself, I have a to-do list that's a dozen items long. Would only take me a day if I really focused.
 
Projects don't get finished. They get abandoned and unmaintained!
 
10:28 AM
I'll be the black sheep, then. :P
 
ok... by @Quill's advice, I am going to post code, and could you please help me debug it?
 
I'm glad you asked so nicely.
That said, it's just about 5:30 AM here. I'm going to bed.
 
huh?
 
@TanMath Did you try running it yourself yet?
 
10:29 AM
@zyabin101 why?
@feersum of course!!!
now, this has nothing to do with code golf unfortunately...
 
Seems like an important question based on past experience lol.
 
but @Quill told me to ask you guys...
 
@TanMath There's a specialised room for that! Kappa
 
@feersum I learnt my lesson, ok??
 
I just said these guys may help, I didn't really say much else
 
10:30 AM
now you going to blame me??
 
what are people worrying about @TanMath ?
 
@Lembik ?
 
"now you going to blame me??" What is the topic?
 
@TanMath no one is blaming anyone
@TanMath they want you to post your question in this room: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/30617/code-golfers-corner
That's all
 
@Quill why?
that is for code golfing!
 
10:32 AM
because it's a special room for code problems
 
bear in mind this is the most friendly .se chat room on the net :)
 
i know...
 
it's just named code golf like because we're on code golf
 
but do not say that... @Quill will be angry...
 
@TanMath don't be confused by the word "golf" :) Much of PPCG has nothing to do with code golf
 
10:33 AM
ok... I will post the question there then...
 
0
Q: Help me fill my wallet!

slvrbldA while ago I purchased a new wallet which is able to hold 8 cards (4 on both side). However, I seem to have way more cards than that and I need to make choices on which ones I want to carry with me. Some cards I use more often than others, but the cards I prefer to carry with me are not necessar...

 
10:44 AM
0
Q: Translate English to Robber Language

Stewie GriffinThe Robber Language is a Swedish language game well known in most of Scandinavia. The concept of the game is very simple: Every consonant is doubled and an o is inserted in-between. Vowels, numbers and punctuation are left intact. Challenge: Write a program or function that takes a string ...

 
@NewMainPosts dupe!!!
 
@TanMath @Doorknob dupe!!!
@Doorknob isn't responding.
<BUMP>?
 
there are not enough bash challenges on PPCG I have decided :)
 
<BUMP>.
 
11:19 AM
0
Q: Ulam spiral on a triangular grid

Luis MendoWe've had a couple of challenges about the Ulam spiral. But that's not enough. In this challenge we will plot an Ulam spiral on a triangular grid (instead of the usual square grid). Here's a sketch of what the spiral looks like on a triangular grid. As we know, the Ulam spiral arranges all na...

 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TanMathNatural language Computer Algebra System code-golf Still in the works and need to add more detail Background You are working at Wolfram Alpha, when a big fire occurs, wiping out much of the hardware infrastructure, losing much of the code. Now you are assigned to the natural language team wo...

 
What programming languages don't have nested loops? (Brainfuck derivatives are welcome, or programming languages that use a pointer)
 
@Stefnotch Haskell!
 
11:35 AM
XD (I was looking for some minimalistic languages though...)
 
bah :)
 
Clev: I didn't say anything. | You are weird. Clev: Weird is special. | Really? Clev: Yes, you make me feel special. | Good! Clev: Yes, you single? #cleverbot
 
XD
 
this stupid code for my new esoteric stack based language does not print 20 for an input of "5 4*" yet it says "Success":
 
What programming language doesn't have nested loops? Clev: Minion. #cleverbot
Looks like cleverbot considers languages like English to be programming languages...
 
11:47 AM
> What is mathematica? Clev: Mathematics is the tool of the devil. #cleverbot
I asked mathematica
plus:
> Mathematics is the tool of the devil.
lol
> I said mathematica! not mathematics! Clev: Your MATH is very poor.
 
I feel the devil has more tools than that!
 
XD
 
> Me: My name is Andrew. Cleverbot: Hi Andre! Me: I said Andrew! Not Andre! Cleverbot: Andrea hi andrea. Me: What is russian language? Cleverbot: My language. #cleverbot
 
XD
 
@NewSandboxedPosts: I am a cat. XD MingLee
 
12:17 PM
@zyabin101 Again, please stop cluttering my inbox by constantly, nonsensically pinging me for completely insignificant reasons.
6
 
@zyabin101 Doorknob (or any other single person) is not responsible for closing duplicate/off-topic/low-quality questions. That's for all community members, when they get the privilege. Also, there's no real reason to delete or edit the automatic chat message except as an occasional joke, it's not doing any harm, in fact it makes finding closed/deleted questions easier.
3
 
12:41 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Christian IrwanHexotria number Inspired by Triangular Ulam spiral code-golf For instance we write number in triagular spiralling way 30 10 26 51 31 11 09 25 50 32 12 01 08 24 49 33 13 02 00 07 23 48 14 03 04 05 06 22 16 17 18 19 20 39 40 41 42 Then we ...

 
1:39 PM
Congrats @LuisMendo for reaching 5,000 reputation! Here's a complimentary chip. (_)
The time capsule string disappeared from the starred messages. Is it closed?
 
1:58 PM
Hello
 
2:32 PM
@zyabin101 Thank you! :-D
 
2:42 PM
How goes MATL 3.0?
 
Anonymous
-198
Q: A New Code License: The MIT, this time with Attribution Required

samthebrand TLDR: This is a follow-up to our initial proposal for transitioning to a more user-friendly code license. The purpose of this post is to address the concern expressed most frequently in response to the initial proposal: no attribution requirement. Also, we want to make sure everyone has ample ...

 
Anonymous
It's gonna hit -200 today lol
 
Anonymous
Shouldn't it be getting Roomba'd?
 
Anonymous
3:05 PM
@zyabin101 Friendly reminder that Twitch emotes don't work here (for good reason), and so typing them out in chat messages is confusing at best
 
@Mego Doesn't it just vanish from the active posts page?
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Oh wait, I'm thinking of deleted posts getting Roomba'd. Nevermind.
 
There is no reason for a license change at all, the (crayon) change to the MIT lic. is violating it directly, no one gives credit anyways (case in point) and now it completely backfires on them. Who would have though that...
 
^ @El'endiaStarman here is an infinitely growing vine, if you haven't already found one.
 
3:23 PM
I've still not been able to figure out what moving from CC-BY-SA to MIT does for SO. What does it actually accomplish for them and their lawyers?
 
@TimmyD Nothing. And there is a huge chance that the ToS/FAQ "relaxation" will invalidate the MIT terms.
Oh, it reached -200.
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Hooray?!
 
Can one of you view the ratio?
 
Anonymous
Nope
 
Anonymous
Well, actually
 
Anonymous
3:28 PM
Lemme grab that userscript
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
It got closed as unclear :P
 
Anonymous
+122/-323
 
Thanks.
 
Anonymous
79
Q: "View Vote totals" without 1000 rep

Rob W Screenshot About The vote counts are a great tool to determine whether an answer is disputed or not. Unfortunately, not many of us have enough time to join all Stack Exchange websites and get 1000 reputation. This script unlocks the "View Vote counts" feature for those who are not logge...

 
3:32 PM
@Mego Magic.
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Databases
 
@Mego No difference.
2
 
Anonymous
@mınxomaτ Sure there is. Databases are unforgivable curses, up there with Crucio, Imperio, and Hakuna Matata Avada Kedavra
 
The time capsule string disappeared from the starred messages. :/
 
Anonymous
3:48 PM
@zyabin101 Pinned messages only stay pinned for so long until they're automatically taken down.
 
Anonymous
Something like 2 weeks
 
wow, my first answer gold is on meta ^.^
100
A: Increase reputation awarded for questions

OptimizerYes I say that we should go ahead with this change. Apart from simply correctly appreciating the massive amount of effort put into writing good challenges, this would also be a very nice added incentive to start writing questions, especially for existing users who now want to earn more rep. :)

 
Anonymous
It helps when you post an answer that is nearly-unanimously supported :P
 
Anonymous
@TimmyD But that's not from AVPM
 
Anonymous
 
There's only one way we can save the time capsule...
 
Anonymous
@Hosch250 Shame ding
 
Given a graph, a list of (A, B, value of connecting node A and B), and a maximum edge count, is there a polynomial way to maximize your score?
A and B aren't necessarily adjacent
 
@NathanMerrill The best way to do it, is chill. :P B)
 
4:06 PM
or for those who know ticket to ride: given an arbitrary map and list of tickets, maximize your score
 
Anonymous
@NathanMerrill You can do it with Dijkstra's, by modifying it so that it picks the maximum instead of minimum
 
but how do you know the value of a given node?
for example, if node A and B are connected only through C, but A to C has a value of 0
however, A to D has a value of 1
and A to B has a value of 2
maximum edge count is 2
 
hi all
 
Anonymous
Wait hang on I'm wrong
 
Anonymous
You can't do longest path in poly time
 
Anonymous
4:08 PM
@NathanMerrill Weighted graphs use edge weights, not node weights
 
right
 
Anonymous
So why is it an issue?
 
Anonymous
(longest path is NP-hard btw, so unless P=NP, it cannot be done)
 
but this is different than longest path
you don't need to visit every node
and there's no such thing as edge weights
only path values
 
Anonymous
The edge weights are the values of connecting the nodes
 
Anonymous
4:11 PM
Oh wait
 
Anonymous
I see what you mean
 
Anonymous
It's not edge weights, but total path weights
 
right
 
Anonymous
Well, you also get points by building routes, not just by completing destination cards
 
Anonymous
So you'd be looking to maximize route length for a given destination
 
Anonymous
4:14 PM
Well, for a set of destinations
 
sure, I'm ignoring that part
 
Anonymous
Which reduces to longest-path for a single destination
 
and I'm also assuming every route has a fixed length of 1
why would you want the longest path for a single destination?
 
Anonymous
Because of the scoring
 
oh, because the "6 route is 15 points"
 
Anonymous
4:15 PM
The score for a single destination is the score on the destination card plus the score for each of the routes that make up the destination
 
sure, like I said, I'm ignoring the actual score of the routes
 
Anonymous
Ohh I see now
 
for example:
A-B-C-D is my graph
B to D gives 2 points
A to B gives 1 point
you have 2 edges
 
Anonymous
You're trying to figure out the maximum score from a list of destinations with a limited number of trains, where all routes are length 1 and score 0
 
Anonymous
4:18 PM
You might be able to do that in poly time with dynamic programming
 
Anonymous
Though I would expect O(n!)
 
Anonymous
I'm not sure the problem is in NP, though; I don't see how you could verify in polynomial time that a given solution is the maximal solution, since verification would essentially be solving the problem and checking if you got the same solution (or at least the same score)
 
Anonymous
And if it's not in NP, it's certainly not in P
 
Anonymous
I think actually it would be O(n C k), where n is the # of nodes and k is the # of cards
 
that can't be
10 choose 10 is 1
 
Anonymous
4:24 PM
Worst case
 
Anonymous
10 nodes and 10 destinations isn't worst case
 
Anonymous
It's definitely some combination of n! and k!
 
right, but you're saying if the number of nodes goes up with the number of cards, then it maintains a constant relationship
ok: follow up question
I generate a massive network, with a set of random tickets
and post it as a code-challenge
maximum score wins
 
Anonymous
FGITW forcebrute solution wins
 
if its bruteforcable
which I don't think it is
you actually need to post a set of connections to get a score
 
4:28 PM
@NathanMerrill Brute For Cable ... a coalition of cavemen wanting better television
 
Anonymous
For each [0,k]-length permutation of k cards, consider all [1,L]-length paths (where L is the number of trains) such that [1,k] cards are fulfilled. There, forcebruted in (k!)^2*(L!).
 
so yes, basically impossible to bruteforce
 
Anonymous
It might take up to the lifetime of the universe, but it's forcebrutable
 
Anonymous
A greedy algo would do pretty well
 
4:31 PM
right, but I'm requiring a solution
 
Anonymous
Or a dynamic programming algo
 
4
Q: Calculate the Number, Divisors Edition

TimmyDInspired by this question over on Math. Let the prime factorization of a number, n, be represented as P(n) = 2a x 3b x 5c x .... (Using x as the multiplication symbol.) Then the number of divisors of n can be represented as D(n) = (a+1) x (b+1) x (c+1) .... Thus, we can easily say that the numbe...

 
4:54 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Nathan MerrillLet's play Ticket to Ride! (Note, this challenge was inspired by the board game Ticket to Ride, but is massively simplified to a graph-searching problem). For this challenge, you have a list of cities (nodes), connections (edges), and tickets (point value to make a path between two cities). Yo...

 

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