@MichaelHampton I want to go to there.

But I don't know how.

@ewwhite I think you hire a Puppet consultant?

Or do a lot of learning on your own.

@MichaelHampton I have a good puppet guy on staff... another senior admin who's a good developer...

but even with all of that, we haven't been able to fix all that needs fixin'

@ewwhite Lock them both in a room until they've automated the entire infrastructure.

it took puppet guy 2 months to automate the process of building a virtual machine

Looks like they put the good stuff in Puppet Enterprise...so it'll be a while at least before you see it in the open source stuff maybe?

2 months!?

@ewwhite Was that will all the services and everything included, or is that just a base install?

When a client orders a new VM, it takes a minimum of 36 hours to turn it over to them

Should I answer that or just kill it as not constructive? There are really only two good answers.

because it's built/provisioned to client's spec (usually from a kickstart or an existing template)... integrated into our monitoring and backup solution, checked, tweaked... then it passes TWO quality-control checks... but those check have to be from two NOC center people, which means it has to span two shifts...

and 12-hour shifts...

so 36 hours to turn over a system or a batch of systems.

These have to be pets, not livestock. That process is just not scalable.

@MichaelHampton right?

so now it's automated... well, the quality-control portion of it

there's a roadmap to get it to be fully automated.

Not the build part?

@ShaneMadden Honestly, the build is either coming from a kickstart or a VM template. That should be quick?

Glue puppet into cobbler. Or razor, if you're feeling adventurous.

So what I do is put puppet's yum repo in a minimal kickstart, and have it send a CA request in %post. Sign the request, and then puppet does the rest of the provisioning.

@ewwhite But have you elected a committee to decide the color of the cover for the booklet where you're printing the roadmap to the roadmap?

we're at the point where we are putting puppet hooks in the new systems.

@MichaelHampton our imaging solution is not cobbler or foreman... homegrown... so it requires being wheeled up to the server to be imaged...

or cross-connected

which is like, WHUT?

@ewwhite WTF?

"Hey, where's bangbros-db1?!?" "Oh, it's probably in a pile over by the imager..."

Hey, Real Support...

So they have an idea of where they want to be.

but it's really tough to get there.

If they don't want to be doing stupid shit, that's a good start.

lol

thats an interesting way to put it

Well, it's hard to shift culture

I just got an emergency call...

top - 20:28:39 up 50 min,  5 users,  load average: 24.42, 19.59, 12.68
Tasks: 4593 total,   4 running, 4589 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s):  7.4%us,  9.1%sy,  0.0%ni, 57.0%id, 26.3%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.2%si,  0.0%st
Mem:  98863236k total, 98620668k used,   242568k free,     7740k buffers
Swap: 16777208k total, 16777208k used,        0k free, 64709492k cached
   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
 1376 root      11  -5     0    0    0 R 58.3  0.0   1:13.03 kswapd1

See a problem?

@ewwhite That's some decent IO wait

And swap

Oh I didn't notice the swap

damn

# free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:         96546      96308        237          0         20      63260
-/+ buffers/cache:      33027      63518
Swap:        16383      16383          0

Who needs free swap anyway.

hmm, so I should fix this

Since I'm looking for live support and it's a shopping question, I figured I'd ask here. Can anyone recommend some vehicle maintenance software? Doesn't need to be super detailed, but does need to track multiple vehicles (cars and motorcycles).

Seems like something @Adrian or @ChrisS might know about.

Worse comes to worse, I'll just Google Docs it. But it would be cool to have notifications of reports, etc. oob.

@jscott Super User?

@MichaelHampton Shopping is ok there? I've not read their FAQ, but will do so now. thanks.

@jscott Shopping isn't really OK there, but they'd have a better idea about general software in their chat room.

Ha! always forget there are other channels.

"Root Access" is their channel name?

odd

@ewwhite vm.swappiness = 10

@JoelESalas heh... naw, won't fix this

Gawd, it's Oracle.

@MichaelHampton indeed it is.

Mossberg 500. That'll fix all your Oracle problems.

@MichaelHampton I was like "oooh mossberg 500, what kind of SSD is that!"

@JoelESalas Mine's a 500a.

@jscott You might want to see if mechanics.stackexchange.com has a channel, and if you could get away with asking it there.

@Zoredache Ah, thank you.

I don't think we really need the home-network tag, right?

@JoelESalas: Solid Slug Destruction!

I think I'm going to fix this by adding a swap file

terrible approach...

How the hell did that go 100% into swap with so much free memory?

Once upon a time, when I was much younger and more naïve, and Linux kernel versions began with a 0, I thought briefly about completely rewriting Linux's memory management code. Now I sort of wish I had.

I have 200mb free RAM

a RAM disk is in use, per the Oracle installation guidelines

Is that why free said you had 64GB of free RAM?

yes

# cat /etc/fstab
/dev/vg1/root           /                       ext3    defaults        1 1
LABEL=/boot             /boot                   ext3    defaults        1 2
#tmpfs                  /dev/shm                tmpfs   defaults        0 0
shmfs                   /dev/shm                tmpfs   size=92160m     0 0
devpts                  /dev/pts                devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
sysfs                   /sys                    sysfs   defaults        0 0
proc                    /proc                   proc    defaults        0 0

OK, weird as hell, but I'll accept it for now :)

@jscott Weird. Everyone I know who still lives back there has some form of firearm in their possession.

@Andrew Hey, not me, beat @ewwhite over the head with it.

@ewwhite linuxatemyram.com

@Andrew om nom nom

@Adrian Yeah, Rochester is pretty hill billy, even if we like to think else. Most everyone [of the gun nuts] is freaking about the SAFE act, so there's that too. My mossy is actually disassembled and in a box in the garage. I've not shot it in at least a couple years.

@jscott That's the nice thing about a Mossy. Keep it oiled and sealed, it'll be fine for many years.

Ugh, iTunes update just rebooted me. Is there a new iOS coming soon or something?

@Adrian Do you ever ride with earbuds in? Do you use earplugs?

@jscott Sometimes I do ride with earbuds. especially when the ADD kicks in. The music allows me to tune the distractions out and focus on traffic. When I ride my VFR, earplugs are mandatory. It's got an aftermarket exhaust with baffles that needs to be re-wrapped. It's obnoxiously loud, but so fun to ride.

That's got to sound like a beast.

It sounds like the Batmobile when I'm off-throttle since it's got gear-driven cams.

I keep breaking earbuds or getting ones that just refuse to stay in place inside my helmet.

When I'm on the gas, it sounds like the fucking Apocalypse.

haha! Awesome

@jscott I had my helmet custom-fitted. I wear an Arai Profile in Medium, so it's fits like I grew an exo-skeleton.

@Adrian Dang.... With your new suit you're pretty well set on gear. Very nice.

Yeah. Should be a good summer. Weather's turning out to be nicer than we've seen in 10 years.

Stupid SourceForge mirrors. 2 hours to download 317M. Go to kernel.org for Knoppix instead of RescueCD and it's 5 minutes for 695M.

A friend and I rode out to Buffalo yesterday to check out some Urals at a dealer. Clear skies the whole way, upper 80s in Buff, even blew by a sheriff on the 20 and he didn't budge. I can't wait for summer.

@MDMarra serverfault.com/questions/509720/…

@MichaelHampton Samba does AD now.

@Andrew Yeah, I know. That's not the question.

And for the love of Gawd, I wouldn't actually use Samba to do AD in a mostly-Windows environment. Or perhaps at all.

@MichaelHampton if it's Windows being a DC that doesn't like "teh clouds" / cloning, run it as Samba?...

@MichaelHampton hahaha. We're planning to.

@Andrew The problem is, two distinct cloud instances appear identical to AD somehow. I read somewhere that there's a way to differentiate them, but I can't remember what the right keyword is...

And neither of our resident AD experts seems to be around...

sysprep

Yeah, it's some sort of sysprep invocation.

Maybe you can take a stab at it?

And no, you shouldn't think running Samba 4 is the same as using AD.

I would use Samba 4 to join a Linux box to a Windows domain, but run a DC? No thanks.

@Andrew You don't know the context. Oracle skews this.

@ewwhite Oh boy, lucky you.

@MichaelHampton Ultimately, your "use AD" comment is the most apt response. I can't believe the OP doesn't know of sysprep. Also "newsid" has been depreacated as it actually did nothing. Unless you cloned DCs from the original.

Running newsid on 7/2008 actually destroys the OS

For posterity: blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2009/11/03/…

Time to update that old answer, then.

So changing the SID with sysprep is something that I'd expect a Windows admin to know about? At what level of experience?

Because this guy doesn't sound very experienced.

@MichaelHampton You don't sysprep to just to change the SID. You sysprep because it's the MS-supported method for building images/clones,

@jscott Apparently this guy needs some basic education in it (and maybe I do too).

@MichaelHampton You're good, he's in need.

@jscott I use a dirty spiral notebook with a pen clipped to it.

@ChrisS :) I had that feeling that was one of the two possible answers from you.

@jscott So as I understand the general process: You create a sysprep.xml with the Microsoft utility of the year, whatever it's called now, install Windows with it, and at some point during the process you interrupt it and take a VHD, which then becomes your cloud image?

@MichaelHampton Install Windows, do the nasty to it (install apps and such), get it ready for cloning, and the VERY LAST THING you do before shutting it down and imaging is run sysprep

@MichaelHampton Install windows (scripted or other), run sysprep /generalize. After that, you can twiddle the sysprep.xml any way you want, sneak it back into the to-be-deployed image and when it boots it will do what you told it to.

@MikeyB OK, that sounds similar to how I used to OEM-install Windows 95 and 98 way back when I was doing desktop PC crap.

@ewwhite pfft, context :P

@jscott lies!

@jscott Yes, that sounds eerily familiar.

@Andrew Wouldn't it be easier to just use AD? I mean, rather that implement it poorly.

@jscott There exist quite a few SMB environments that have only ONE Windows server. The BES server. And the stupid POS requires AD.

@MikeyB And BES supports Samba as AD?

@jscott OK, well, to be honest we just make the BES server also the AD master :) But it would be cleaner to use Samba to do that.

@MikeyB I don't take issue with the only DC also being BES, you got to do what you got to do in that environment. But a non-MS DC makes me sad panda. Can't we all just meet at LDAP and be OK? :p

@jscott we're doing samba 3.5 with external LDAP atm

@jscott Embrace, Extend, Extinguish!

People still use BlackBerry? Didn't RIM implode or something?

@MichaelHampton They're giving BB10 their all. They even hired Alicia Keys (she's hot and can really sing).

Their last hurrah, huh?

There isn't much room for a third try in the mobile space, well, not for companies which don't make their money elsewhere.

I heard they had to put an Android compatibility layer in it.

!

developer.blackberry.com/android

I worked at Blackberry... you could say I had a RIM job

instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot

badamnPISH

Of course, the real problem is they made it a royal pain in the ass to actually sign up as a BlackBerry app developer. They want you to send them a copy of your driver's license and your business registration paperwork!

@MichaelHampton Nearly as painful as getting your Apple developer key!

@jscott Eh, all Apple wanted was $99 a year...

@MichaelHampton The district I work for has been waiting/fighting to get our PO processed for almost 3 months now. Sure it's only $99. :)

@jscott Should have paid by credit card. :)

ugggh i hate documentation

@MattBear Rewrite it to be more hateful then

@MattBear You will hate it even more when you need the documentation and it isn't there. Or worse, wrong.

@MichaelHampton its not the usefull kind... its the "make auditor happy" kind

@MichaelHampton Oh gosh, I would gladly take "no docs" over "wrong docs"

@MattBear You're a sysadmin, automate that shit.

@MichaelHampton I should of been more clear... I hate writing ambiguous policies

echo $CVE was remediated by installing $PACKAGE $PACKAGE_VERSION as supplied by $VENDOR in $VENDOR_ADVISORY >> damnauditors.txt

@MattBear Oh, OK, that's different then.

I like real documentation

@MattBear Pussy

Real men take the documentation, shit on it, and just change settings. We never make mistakes and the changes we make are obvious and no need to document them

And that's even funnier with an Australian accent.

@MarkHenderson lol

@Adrian double lol

@jscott did you see that Chinese video I posted earlier?

Hmm. About 12 hours ago actually.

@Adrian I interviewed with a company in New York about 12 months ago. I had no trouble talking technical with the interviewers, but every time I had to go through reception I would automatically say "G'day, I'm calling for $x" and you'd just hear the girl do a double-take. Not used to hearing "G'Day"

G'Day mate!

That's not a noife, THIS is a noife!

Had a grand-boss working in Perth. Was funny listening to him avoid Australian idioms.

@MichaelHampton Not nearly as difficult now. It's dead simple. Actually, never was really

@Adrian Fuck that, I'm not interested in avoiding it. The number of americanisms we have to put up with they can deal with a few Fair-Dunkums and You-Beauts

I don't think he realized that it made him sound like a stuffed shirt. We would've rather listened to his local accent anyway

@MichaelHampton You could put it that way… or you could say that built in a full Android runtime to make it dead simple to port Android apps over with minimal (read: sometimes no) changes.

@Adrian He was from perth. He was probably a cashed up bogan because he held onto his mining stocks from the 90's

Considering our crew included two Indians, a Swiss German, a Canadian Chinese, and a Mormon, we'd hardly notice.

Nice guy as far as IBM middle managers go

@MarkHenderson Ewe what? I thought that Ewe was what they did in New Zealand.

...

I thought that was wales

@jscott facebook.com/…

@MichaelHampton I never said Ewe?

I said "You Beaut" as in "You Beauty" as in "This is good news that pleases me"

@Adrian teh fuuuuck

@MarkHenderson In American English, You and Ewe sound pretty much identical.

@Adrian you see that splatter down the pipe at the end?

@MichaelHampton same here

@MarkHenderson So it was a bad joke about sheep.

@MichaelHampton Yeah I think I finally got it

Probably would have worked better saying it not typing it

@MarkHenderson I don't think I ever use "G'Day" over the phone

well, not when calling. Maybe when answering someone I recognise

@MarkHenderson G'day Bruce.

@ScottPack Bruce!

I'm not a pelican though

@Andrew I use it all the time. It's my favourite greeting after "Whats up cunts"

...

@Andrew He's such a nasty Sheila.

I hope the hairs up your arse turn into drumsticks and beat the shit out of you

I dunno, its 9pm, gonna go home, run a few miles, and go to bed

have a good night

@ScottPack a sheila is a woman

@MichaelHampton a BOFH contest, eh?

@Andrew I'm not sure SE would go for that.

@MichaelHampton pfft, we're not really part of them anyway!

@Andrew They seem to think we are!

@MichaelHampton We'll show them!

Clone the site, hijack the DNS, done!

Breaking News: ServerFault secedes from the StackExchange network.

StackExchange infrastructure mysteriously vanishes from plain sight.

In unrelated news, physicists announce a breakthrough in teleportation technology.

Break into DC with a trolley, wheel out rack of servers. Done.

@MarkHenderson bring a UPS to plug into the ATS and a 4G router

5-9s uptime while being stolen!

Hey, if MiFi was good enough for the StackExchange DC move then it's good enough for us!

That election questionnaire was long. I think it was much better than the town hall stuff.

@ScottPack I liked it, though I think it should have been posted before the election started.

@MichaelHampton It still works out better than the Town Hall. Those don't usually happen until the election is almost over.

Have you looked at the voting numbers? We're up to about 450. I'm interested to see what the turnout percentages look like.

@ScottPack It worries me about 440 of those 450 people are not aware that there's a bogus nomination inthere

@MarkHenderson In truth, his nomination spiel violates the moderation agreement so I'm surprised they re-opened his nomination.

Why didn't his nomination stay deleted?

@ShaneMadden Because for some reason they insist on treating him like a decent citizen

It makes sense. We do let @Mark stick around, so why not Evan?

He has gone on multiple personal attacks against SF moderators, he made up a bloody banner calling one of us a facist and posted it on a bunch of heavily trafficed websites

And he named and shamed me in public in his original nomination after I'd already received a reprimand from SE proper, and that only happened because I banned him from chat for 10 years

@MarkHenderson They're aware that he's just a troll though, right..?

They seem to think he's not a troll.

@MichaelHampton This

@ShaneMadden What @MichaelHampton said

Jeff even called him on the phone to decide that he wasn't a troll

Right, but Jeff doesn't work there anymore.

You can't see that over the phone!

@ShaneMadden I KNOW

You can be a delusional dick without being a troll.

I seem to recall dude being pretty creeped out by the fact that Jeff tracked him down to a phone number to call.

Anyone seen the iPhone 6 "transform into a projector" video and thought it was fake?

@ScottPack Nah he has his phone number on his public website

@MarkHenderson I never said the tracking was hard....

And I'm going to bed. Gentlemen. Bruces. Trolls.

Sorry, I'm not a moderator :P

3k users can still vote!

(to close.)

Eh, it's spam, flag it as such. It'll go away faster.

Oh look, Google Chrome is up to 27 now.

Oh look I know the answer to a closed quesiton

Now what!?

Do I just comment it? Doesn't matter, they've been told "GTFO"

I tend to do that, and comment that its OT as per the FAQ, but that's just me

Stack Overflow and then Server Fault have become "Yahoo Answers for tech stuff".

NOT DOING TECH SUPPORT FOR THE INTERNET. NO.

@Andrew If you think this is something a professional system administrator would be doing, toss a reopen vote at it.

@MichaelHampton it's "webhosty stuff", I guess. We maintain a few dokuwiki installs for internal stuff and had to work that out, which is why I know the answer.

define "professional system administrator" anyway.

@Andrew The guy who has to make your IT shit work.

G'day

Lots of people dropping in from $elsewhere to collect badges in our election

@Iain Cos they get a network-wide notice

So if they ever came and collected a few upvotes they can participate

I sometimes go and vote in elections on sites I havent visited in years :P

;p

I was just saying earlier that I'm worried that they're going to be aware that there's a bad nomination in there and they'll just hit 1,2,3 in the order they're presented and he'll get too many donkey votes

@MarkHenderson I know - I almost never vote $elsewhere

i vote in places I hang out in ;p

@MarkHenderson In truth I was wondering if there may be some sort of rigging going on

@Iain If he gets any position you can be assured there will be a mass exodus of moderators

(well, at least a -1)

@MarkHenderson Strictly speaking that's be -2 already ;)

@MarkHenderson: but it would be more fun to just make life horrible for him.

constantly

@JourneymanGeek We could not retire and just leave all the flags

That would work

maybe

There's been 36.3k flags since 2010

If we just let them stockpile for him that's a lot of work

assuming he bothers to do them

moo

@MarkHenderson it's not only mods who would leave, trust me on that..

I want to post a non-constructive question on the site :( need to figure out a way to deploy standalone winxp/win7 (as in not domain joined) via MDT and still get some kind of GPO lockdown on a local user account..

How's it NC?

If you're talking of a process, rather than a product, it usually should work out IMO

Morning

well, the process would involve getting the right tools for the job..

as I'm a bit lost where to start

I just failed the most stupid review audit test ever..

how the hell is that system administration

@pauska I failed in the other day as I clicked on close to see how may close votes it had

@pauska I would like for there to be some way to flag an audit test question as "wtf, this can't be true"

@Iain I was tempted to do the same the other day, but realized that it would trip the wire.. so I usually open the question in another window..

@Iain I failed the other day as it was a cron question and I wanted to close it as a duplicate of the canonical cron...

@JennyD Well this one is obviously a HORRIBLE candidate for audit...

Mine was one that shouldn't have been closed so I was just curious

@pauska That's the main reason I've become a lot harsher with downvotes - it's the only way to keep questions from becoming crappy audit tests.

@pauska steadystate or such?

@JennyD @Iain md5deep is close but I'm still trying to monkey it out :(

@JennyD Maybe we need to raise the close vote limit & encourage more downvoting

"your question is crap, here's why"

@Andrew or answer the question posted serverfault.com/a/509775/9517

how did that get a +1 ?

@Andrew MOAR VOTES! I'm in favour!

@Iain Serial downvoting time, woo

"love to hack vulnerable machines" - yes, that is highly Professional

Is this banworthy? "I am hacker, and this is my manifesto."

@Ward err, rep limit

@Andrew rep limit ?

Yeah, I was responding to "Maybe we need to raise the close vote limit ..." I'm always happy to have more votes!

@Ward sorry I meant to reply to @Andrew

Rephrase: maybe 3k isn't enough rep to determine "you are sane and we trust that you know when to close". Also maybe a 2-stage "nominate to close"/"final close with actions" process

so a million "off-topic" questions don't stay unmigrated

closing "off-topic" says "this is off-topic for all of Stack Exchange"

I figure "if it's a real question that could live somewhere, migrate it somewhere"

If they're off-topic, unanswered, and downvoted, they'll get auto-deleted.

crap questions are obviously still crap, but use "this is a crap question" rather than "well I dunno, let's get rid of it because it won't earn me rep"

broops

@Andrew No! I can recognize a question that's certainly off-topic here, but I don't know what SU wants... (or security, or ...) We went through that with the crap from SO.

@Ward let it pinball then.

@Andrew How does that help anyone?

or create a network-wide "salvage" queue; make migration pull rather than push.

@Ward if it's sent back where it came from, it's definitely beyond help.

@Andrew I wouldn't mind if the auto-delete was cranked up a notch or two, and if the limbo questions get moved to limbo.SE, that'd be fine, but don't saddle some other site with possible crap.

what's the goal of the stack exchange network? to be an awesome internet knowledge base, or make beer money for dudes via Google Ad Stuffs?

if you're not paying, you're producing. who's getting the profits here?

The thing is, I followed the crap from SO to here (before it got turned off) ... only a small fraction of the people followed their migrated questions. If the original asker won't even click a link, there's no way to get clarification, confirmation if an answer helped them, anything.

@Ward so basically we need a way to stop dump & run of crap, or provide an easy feedback mechanism of "I think my question still has merit despite the fact you all think it's crap"

You're not gonna get an awesome knowledge base with crappy questions...

the claiming of "turning newbies away" doesn't hold water if there's no evidence they are going to stick around anyway

@Andrew also it's not as if there's a lack of new newbies

@Ward right, so purging needs to occur. But potentially useful stuff gets swamped in a storm of "not my area! get rid of it!"

I certainly don't care about turning newbies away by downvoting them... the rest of you could do more. :)

@JennyD Eternal September and all that...

@Ward you have rep to burn. plus, you ride a bike.

@Andrew In a professional context there really can't be be as many clueless newbies as we get dumped upon us. C'mon how did most of these people get hired ? Don't they have seniors to work with ...

@Andrew downvoting questions is free

I'm extremely jealous of my rep... Downvotes on Questions don't cost rep, and by lucky coincidence, I think it's questions that need to be harshly downvoted when appropriate.

@Iain When did that change?!

@Andrew Uh... 2 years ago? thereabouts

@Iain On my very first sysadmin job I was very clueless about many things. But the thing I was not clueless about was how to find information, and it did not involve having random strangers do my homework for me

@Andrew 2 years ago ?

@JennyD My first sysadmin gig was using VMS, there was no internet as we know it today but I had someone to work with and a wall of excellent documentation

Before you can ask a question, the site should display some Google results.

@Iain When I started the internet was very different - but there were IRC channels, and friends, and books, and man pages, and even a few web sites.

Just over 2 years:

@Andrew it kinda does - no one appears to read them

@Iain The grey wall!

@JennyD VMSs online help was as good as the paper documentation

We still had some orange...

@Ward We had grey/ornage/white walls

@Iain I've got the impression that VMS was a lot better at documentation than many other OSs

White? We had orange for our 4.6 stuff, then grey for 5... we dumped the VAXes (and never ran vms on the alphaserver) after 5.5-2, so did white come after that?

@JennyD very much so.

@Ward White was OpenVMS 6/7

e.g.

By them it was in softcover books rather then binders so it didn't look so impressive

@Ward remember it well

That little terminal ain't no VT, though.

@Ward: as far as migration to SU goes, feel free to ask ;p

I believe @Iain had a thing going on where he'd occationally check if we wanted a question. I do something similar here, very rarely

@JourneymanGeek I eventually reached the point where I decided it was better to just close stuff OT and leave a comment educating the OP. It's not like it's hard for them to copy+paste after searching $elsewhere.

@Iain Awww, those couple in the middle of the pile that actually say "digital" look so lonely.

@Iain: I think migrations are for exceptionally good questions that happen to be in the wrong place, so most things would deserve cleansing with fire ;p

@JourneymanGeek and I agree but I don't know what makes an exceptionally good question $elsewhere or if it's already been asked or ... or ...

eh, 1 is the REALLY hard part

you often find 2 if you ask, and someone has a sharp enough memory, or its an interesting enough question

ur doing it wrong

totally homework question

New users should get some kind of trivia before they are allowed to ask a question..

"What is the name of Microsofts implementation of directory services? A) Passive Directory B) Active Directory C) Novell"

I wonder how many we'd block at the gates by that..