Charcoal HQ

!!/watch yiioverflow\.com

@Glorfindel Added yiioverflow\.com to watchlist

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title: klereumcol.com/renuvaline-es/ by sajantms on graphicdesign.SE

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

CI on 8eabd13 succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 8eabd13 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of yiioverflow\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Restart: API quota is 16541.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in answer: privkey16WGrKJUZ3LrRms88kkmQyTLzVs8dyJD8aТолько для просмотра by patson on bitcoin.SE

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

New metasmoke user 'pkuderov' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, potentially bad keyword in body: Distance from any Perlelux Cream by marywwarner on graphicdesign.SE

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, +2 more: website.Qwww.supplementmakehealthy.org/trilixton-dk/ by virgiqjerry on superuser.com

tpu- by K.Dᴀᴠɪs

Floern

9:21 AM

sd - k - k - - k

New metasmoke user 'casualcoder' created

so, uh

bad news folks

uh-oh

if we do this thing about requiring two reviews on every post...

there's gonna be 50k items in the review queue

._.

9:24 AM

Just make it active for all posts from 'now' on.

that feels icky

So does going through 50,000 items though...

(Also, can we please be able to give feedback directly from the MS page?)

Or duplicate the existing feedback (on posts with 1 feedback) to a new record for the System user (-1).

@ArtOfCode sounds doable

9:26 AM

@Glorfindel meh

If we all dedicate an hour or two. Most of it is spam so blatant that we can dismiss it in a second or so

The question is can metasmoke handle it

Hmmm, gotta hope the roboreview doesn't set in though after the first 500...

If we did it for only posts over 300 weight, it's only 10k items

which is no more than we did the first time round with far fewer people

What do we gain from doing the whole lot or > 300 ?

the idea is to require two feedbacks on each post so that we know at least two sets of eyes have seen it whether it was 5-flagged or not

9:29 AM

tp- by Mithrandir on read from two separate text files and write into one [MS]

Conflicting feedback on read from two separate text files and write into one.

@Rob Plagiarism gets a tpu- feedback, but not spam-flagged.

tpu- by Mithrandir on Alibaba Cloud Container Service to Deploy Multiple PHP Projects? [MS]

Conflicting feedback on Alibaba Cloud Container Service to Deploy Multiple PHP Projects?.

@SmokeDetector Alibaba spam again

Conflicting feedback on How can I get Spotify to play M4A files?.

!!/blacklist-website tunefab\.com

9:33 AM

@tripleee Blacklisted tunefab\.com

Rob

@Mithrandir Yeah but in this case it was more of trolling rather than plagiarism

As the plagiarised post was literally right above it

@Rob Trolling also gets tpu- ;)

Rob

Alright, good to know :)

in the context of recent hits maybe we want to change the verdicts for 108217 and 104177

CI on 7a2c55d succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 7a2c55d (SmokeDetector: Auto blacklist of tunefab\.com by tripleee --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Restart: API quota is 16321.

9:36 AM

(@Cerbrus would FIRE be possible in the transcript?)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Is it possible to have a "reset form" button in an excel form? by user9450348 on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Mithrandir

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, +3 more: growxlsite.com/cialin-rx/ by NadinCox on graphicdesign.SE

tpu- by A J

@tripleee also, still alive (!): video.stackexchange.com/a/23510/17390

iBug

@SmokeDetector k

@iBug I hit an error while trying to run that command; run !!/errorlogs for details.

Conflicting feedback on Alibaba Cloud Container Service to Deploy Multiple PHP Projects?.

iBug

Plagiarism Source (Simplified Chinese): segmentfault.com/q/1010000011936392/a-1020000011936469 — iBug 2 mins ago

9:40 AM

!!/errorlogs 30

bytes_ = self.recv(min(16384, shortage))

File "/home/smokey/.local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/websocket/_core.py", line 427, in _recv
return recv(self.sock, bufsize)

File "/home/smokey/.local/lib/python3.5/site-packages/websocket/_socket.py", line 80, in recv
bytes_ = sock.recv(bufsize)

File "/usr/lib/python3.5/ssl.py", line 914, in recv
return self.read(buflen)

File "/usr/lib/python3.5/ssl.py", line 791, in read
return self._sslobj.read(len, buffer)

File "/usr/lib/python3.5/ssl.py", line 577, in read

New metasmoke user 'GPhilo' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: Who are coop 18 Do and all it takes by Iletelaid1985 on askubuntu.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in body: Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly? by annsay 02 on ru.stackoverflow.com

tpu- by Glorfindel on Who are coop 18 Do and all it takes [MS]

fp- by Glorfindel

@SmokeDetector tp-

(ultra short, low quality, but genuine question)

Conflicting feedback on Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly?.

tp- by Mithrandir

Conflicting feedback on Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly?.

It's also not vandalism or something.

9:49 AM

Conflicting feedback on Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly?.

@Glorfindel oh, not vandalism?

@SmokeDetector fp-

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: two ways about it works by shrinkage by Zeks ist on drupal.SE

No revision history ...

Conflicting feedback on Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly?.

@SmokeDetector tpu-

9:49 AM

Conflicting feedback on Что делать, если зависает камера в musical.ly?.

tpu- by Glorfindel

It's posted in a vandalized state, essentially - it's something we'd want to catch at a system level.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: Change This Law Of Attraction For Weight Loss by qweroppr on askubuntu.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

No, it's just lacking details.

The body is gibberish...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, title starts and ends with a forward slash: /sb-serum//sb-serum//sb-serum/ by JamesBledsoe on askubuntu.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

9:52 AM

It's gibberish, which is something we'd want to prevent people from posting. But it's a legit question, in the title, so tp-.

I'd argue that we don't want to block this; instead, we want to work together with the user to make it a good question. We can't do that if there is no question to begin with.

But it's probably something we can hold a poll about later, once the more urgent matters have been resolved.

New metasmoke user 'Thomas Ayoub' created

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: The converge of such a significant number of characteristic by Licep19 Virk on superuser.com

tpu- by Glorfindel

@Mithrandir @Glorfindel can't you just cast a single, custom flag on that? Why does it need to be categorized as spam or not spam?

@terdon Not for flagging purposes, but for Smokey feedback purposes.

That seems like the sort of thing that is best dealt with by a comment explaining to the user how SE works. Or, even better, copying the title into the body.

Cerbrus

10:04 AM

@Mithrandir what transcript?

ooh

@Cerbrus have FIRE show up in CHQ transcript

Cerbrus

Ehm, there was a good reason I didn't enable it there...

@Mithrandir Yes, that's a false positive, right? Why not mark it as one? How does marking as one or the other affect smokey?

Cerbrus

Just don 't remember what the reason was

@terdon Well, that's what the debate is... Whether the gibberish body should be marked as a true or false positive.

I'd say true positive because we want to catch gibberish.

10:05 AM

How does marking as one or the other affect smokey?

Will it learn and adapt to it?

Gives us data for the future

Humans or the bot? Is it continually using its DB as a training set?

@terdon not without a human manually editing the checks

Rob

@terdon As far as I know, it adds weight to reasons, which make them more eligible for detection (and auto flagging)

@terdon Sort of. The feedback given on posts eventually effects the weight that the reasons that caught the post have.

10:06 AM

OK, but it isn't using a machine learning approach, so it won't be able to note the fact that the title was a valid question.

And since the title makes it a question, and only the body gibberish, doesn't marking it as a false positive make more sense?

Right. The title wasn't detected as a positive, it caught the body gibberish.

But for most reasons, a single post won’t make a difference in reason weight

@terdon if it was fully gibberish, I would say TP, but if there is a legit title I’d be conflicted

In this case, I personally marked it the same way we mark posts that were replaced by gibberish after posting: tp-, to indicate that we do want to catch that type of post but not to blacklist the user.

tp- is a ‘softer’ tpu in a sense

Heh, you folks are going to have fun if there's ever a Finnish site on the network. This is a valid word, for instance (apparently): Hyppytyynytyydytys

thefinnishteacher.weebly.com/…

@Mithrandir I see

10:09 AM

@terdon It's in the works ;)

As is Lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas!

We already have our resident Fin ...

New metasmoke user 'Amicable' created

my favorite is hääyöaie

@tripleee Yes! If that's the one I think it is, a friend of mine taught it to me. Something to do with marriage, if I remember correctly?

10:12 AM

wedding night intention

Brilliant word.

@terdon But hopefully there'd be more than one word in the post ;)

I don't know Finnish.

I mean, there are exceptions, but...

heh

10:16 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer: Keystroke to maximize along the vertical only in Windows 7? by user2773056 on superuser.com

@Mithrandir my thinking is that isn't in our domain

fp- by Glorfindel

@Mithrandir How does this image highlight the letters?

@Mithrandir Wow! That's amazing

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, repeated URL at end of long post: This protected definition attempts to help vitality by Licep19 Virk on graphicdesign.SE

tpu- by Glorfindel

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Glow fresh Beauty by user802715 on askubuntu.com

10:20 AM

Hey guys, art invited me over. I guess you don't know me, I'm Bhargav, a mod on SO. ;)

tpu- by A J

tpu- by Glorfindel

Hello

\o

o/

@BhargavRao Namaste! We know. ;)

10:21 AM

@BhargavRao nice to meet you :p

@BhargavRao Welcome to Charcoal, not seen you round here before... ;)

@Magisch hi, nice to see new users greeting me :p

@AJ namaste!

@Henders hah, yep, visiting the room for the first time.

Floern

o/

@BhargavRao You're just in time for me to dump more flags on you :D

LOL

10:24 AM

New metasmoke user 'duncanhall' created

@ArtOfCode Thanks for discussing this!

I wonder how often are we're talking, and has the user been contacted via ~~snail~~ mod mail yet?

@BhargavRao Hi, welcome!

@Magisch I've taken a couple weeks of mod holiday, have a few submissions comin up, and quite a lot of all-nighters. Perhaps 3~4 weeks from now, I'll be free and you can expect your pending flags to be empty :)

I noticed that small issue, so posted it on Andy's meta.

@BhargavRao hopefully in a few weeks 3 more people will be there to handle them

10:26 AM

@doppelgreener Hiya!

@Magisch 3 more for sure. But we don't know if anyone is retiring.

Heh

will be interesting to see who runs

@BhargavRao pretty sure I saw the answer to that in TL...

@Magisch Oops, if this was the case, then my whole premise that users were robo flagging/trigger happy/blah blah is wrong. Are you sure that the userscript not alerting you all is a major reason for that behavior?

@ArtOfCode they say that every election, but no one retired last time. TL -> Too-much Lies

@BhargavRao Well, if I see a post, want to flag naa, and misclick the button by 5mm and flag spam instead

@ArtOfCode @Magisch meh, the human tendency is to click enter, so I don't think that'd help.

10:29 AM

In norma flag dialogues you have to do 2 clicks

@Magisch oh great

@Magisch That's. . . not good.

@Magisch Errm, then that needs a bit of change. I guess FIRE uses the API to flag? If yes, then you prolly can't retract from FIRE.

Let's put it this way, inability to retract flags from the API makes it frustrating to flag using the API.

@Undo this won't work as well, isn't it against the premise of autoflagging? I remember you mentioning that Smokey is built in such a way to not look at the feedback while autoflagging?

@BhargavRao It is at the moment, yeah. Could be changed.

@AJ 'tis a GIF

@Henders thanks :D

10:34 AM

@Mithrandir it doesn't look like gif

@BhargavRao Yes, I have to click through to the post and retract

@AJ the .png or .gif things are interchangeable

@Undo Yes, this is absolutely true. The only reason why I'm bringing this up is because, it's one of those corner cases, which can be used against Smokey's 5 flag expansion. It hasn't occurred before, and I'm quite sure (from what Art has told me) that it won't occur in the future, but it is something which needs to be looked at.

And last time you declined mine I wasn't fast enough

@BhargavRao Right. Personally I feel autoflagging after feedback is encroaching a little too far on the sockpuppet side

@BhargavRao It's certainly caused a couple issues, but I think most people are reasonably adept at clicking the right button.

10:36 AM

@Magisch Yup, I'm also one of the trigger happy decline mods ;) ... j/k apart, Undo has clearly instructed us to decline any wrongly flagged posts immediately. I've been told that it sends out a message to the users not to keep their autoflag reasons at a very low level.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body: Nutralu Those friends by joannabbeyhai2 on askubuntu.com

tpu- by Mithrandir

@SmokeDetector k

@BhargavRao Yeah, I can deal with declined flags. Still have over 99,50% accuracy on my SO flags so it's all good

@SmokeDetector so that just got 5 autoflags, and I nuked it from FIRE

besides, I'm currently exposed to a lot more decline risks

I have 280 custom flags pending if a mod has a bad day and decides these are useless my stats are immediately in the toilet anyways

10:38 AM

@Mithrandir meh, doesn't look like that, but it's more on the "smokey is useless" side. If smokey flags after seeing feedback, other users in the room can do that instead.

@Mithrandir are you sure bout that? I got a helpful spam flag on it. #USnoozeULooze

@BhargavRao huh, odd

I think it said I flagged :P

> -7 Nutralu Those friends asked 2 mins ago by joannabbeyhai2
spam – Mithrandir 2 mins ago helpful

@SurajRao +1 from me.

@Mithrandir 7 flag spam nuked \o/

@BhargavRao nope

Mith flagged it, but I don't see your name

Ah, no, my bad

@BhargavRao About "well known overzealous flaggers" what are SO mods doing to address these people?

Wat?

10:41 AM

Do you guys contact them?

You also flagged it, but it was after deletion

Because we're interested in not having that

But the same second as all the other flags :)

@terdon hah, helpful spam flag though, and no US. Shows that I'm not old. :p

Race condition, presumably. I haven't noticed that before.

10:42 AM

@Magisch On SO, no way. We've got 2300 flags in the queue, if we start to send out flag ban messages for every such user we find .... you can understand.

We do send it to users who go on a wrong flag spree.

@BhargavRao Yeah. If it's someone from charcoal though it might be worth dropping by

However on smaller sites, the situation may be different. I think Art or Undo can explain that better.

wheeee the next MS deploy is going to take aaaaages

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, +5 more: healthflyup.com/vedda-blood-sugar/ by user278878 on apple.SE

tpu- by Mithrandir

tpu- by ArtOfCode

@terdon I've seen spam flags raised after the post has been nuked as spam. :D

10:44 AM

whereas with 1 autoflag I had time to downvote that

@BhargavRao Helpful ones?

@Mithrandir You flagged and downvoted?

yup

@Mithrandir ???

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, username similar to website in answer: How do I merge two Wordpress SQL databases in phpmyadmin? by BestDesign2Themes on stackoverflow.com

@terdon What?

10:45 AM

tpu- by A J

@SmokeDetector k

"Don't downvote spam" is one of the first spam rules.

Granted, it was more relevant pre-smokey, but you don't want to remove it from the front page so that others can flag and it gets deleted.

@SmokeDetector this has been edited.

It was already at -4 when I downvoted, so it had already dropped off the front page.

Q: Why shouldn't I downvote spam that I've already flagged?

58

One of the responses to the question about the mass of football spam said: The proper course of action is to flag the post as spam. Three spam flags will remove it from the front page, six will delete it. Don't edit it, don't downvote it, don't use another flag. Flag as spam and move on. As...

10:46 AM

@SmokeDetector f

Conflicting feedback on How do I merge two Wordpress SQL databases in phpmyadmin?.

@terdon yep

That looks like a useful answer, same as the case as on BI

@Mithrandir still tp for our purposes

@SmokeDetector edited, commented, messaged.

that should be a tp, I guess?

10:47 AM

@Mithrandir That is pretty blatant copy pasting with link

I flagged that

A: Why shouldn't I downvote spam that I've already flagged?

9

While the reasons given in the accepted answer are correct (but only apply to questions), it's good to note that most of the obvious spam posts 'automatically' get three spam flags from Charcoal volunteers. One spam flag from you, and the question's score is already -4 and it isn't displayed on t...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, +4 more: supplement4choice.com/trilixton-es/ by Drfuff on apple.SE

eh, sure, i suppose tp is valid

tpu- by Mithrandir

@SmokeDetector tp-

10:47 AM

They literally (badly) copy pasted their article

Damn, I've lost all my canned comments

And it's only cursorily related to the post itself

@BhargavRao github.com/Charcoal-SE/userscripts/commit/…

@Mithrandir ?

@terdon reasons it wasn't so applicable

10:52 AM

@Magisch Yeah, this. I would certainly flag ban anyone who repeats the same mistake thrice.

@tripleee perfectly said.

@Mithrandir Well, that's kinda one of the problems that this whole discussion has raised. If you're both flagging and downvoting, you will remove it from the font page faster, right?

@BhargavRao I just read your answer on overzealous users...... interesting

Another thought (related to charcoal) is that removing it from the front page where it could get more flags is almost completely irrelevant. If it's spam, it'll definitely get the 6 flags required from charcoalers whether or not it's visible to get more flags from site-members. — DJMcMayhem Jan 8 at 20:26

@terdon It was already at -4 when I downvoted, so... no?

In one way I’d like to know but in other ways I don’t

But not being a mod makes that decision for me ;)

10:54 AM

@Mithrandir OK, but other times it might not have been. Which brings up that comment I just pasted.

I just don't see any reason not to let the locals get a flag in too. I may well be wrong here, but it seems that downvoting makes it harder for the locals to be involved. Am I wrong?

As triplee said, the problem with the large flag offering projects is that, people are attracted towards flagging. The main issue atm is people want to FGITW spam flags. I think this is the reason, which we all need to prevent. Something which as developers, we can't solve. The users need to be taught bout this.

@terdon "we want visibility for spam" is a very admin-centric view, most users will be totally happy if they are not distracted by stuff which is off-topic one way or another

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I was mentioning that from the Charcoal point of view. That particular user must be taught about what exactly is flaggable as spam and what is not.

@BhargavRao I'm thinking we could change how autoflags are made visible (or not) to reduce the tendency for piling on

@tripleee Perhaps. But this is one of the main issues raised about the autoflag increase. Both on MSE and on that trainwreck on SFF. So it isn't just "admins".

10:59 AM

@angussidney get one. The room description, "Where diamonds are made", is not there for fun ;p