Charcoal HQ

SmokeDetector

8:00 PM

@doppelgreener Post ignored; alerts about it will no longer be posted.

doppelgreener

I've poked a portuguese.se moderator about it

quartata

@Makyen uh no

that was me laughing

I just meant that some reasons are no more accurate than guessing and it's identified those

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on dc0be3e: Your tests failed on CircleCI

New metasmoke user 'has not been' created

8

Byte Commander

:D

doppelgreener

!!/test Guarani

SmokeDetector

8:08 PM

> Potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title, potentially bad keyword in username
----------
Title - Position 1-8: Guarani
Body - Position 1-8: Guarani
Username - Position 1-8: Guarani

doppelgreener

!!/unwatch guarani

SmokeDetector

@doppelgreener No such item guarani in watchlist.

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

doppelgreener

!!/unwatch Guarani

SmokeDetector

@doppelgreener Removed Guarani from watchlist

quartata

really hope the trolls don't find out about this https://metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/destroy/humanity

doppelgreener

8:10 PM

no strong coincidence with spam, barely any use over the past 2 years, actually just an ordinary demonym of some people.

SmokeDetector

CI on 555828a succeeded. Message contains 'autopull', pulling...

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 555828a (SmokeDetector: Auto unwatch of Guarani by doppelgreener --autopull) (running on ArtOfCode/EC2)

Restart: API quota is 15696.

quartata

@ByteCommander it's been happening recently, thinking it's an SE thing

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, repeating characters in body: ML and Data point challenging Question! by Saurabh Saurabh on datascience.SE

tp- by ByteCommander

NobodyNada

@SmokeDetector v

quartata

.9

(barring the fact that it was an edit of course)

SmokeDetector

8:28 PM

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

SmokeDetector

8:38 PM

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

ArtOfCode

SpaceX launch in an hour

spacex.com/webcast

SmokeDetector

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: Is this a Fallacy? You are X because you hold an opinion as X would by Eclectic Crafter on philosophy.SE

quartata

sd ignore-

SmokeDetector

8:55 PM

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

quartata

Example of how MSML is more aggressive: this would have been trivially autoflagged metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/118820

But at the same time an example of how it's more conservative: this would not have been metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/113316

That's good

I like

Sooo @ArtOfCode @Undo if we did this, how would we transition?

We have a few options

Just reset everyone to a new default

Or keep both behaviors -- people with "old-style" flagging conditions and "new-style" flagging conditions

hmm

Also if we did this we'd almost certainly need a new meta post, and then I worry people would conflate it with 5 flags

Mithrandir

Or perhaps add it as a new reason, as an experiment?

quartata

It's not a reason

At least, it wouldn't be feasible to have it as one, since it would have to run last

and we're not guaranteed an execution order of reasons

Maybe if I stuck it in spamhandling

It's in Ruby tho :P

Zoe

What's MSML?

quartata

We could set up dry runs again

@Zoe I slammed together a logistic regression model for autoflagging today and it does way, way better than I ever expected github.com/Charcoal-SE/msml

Zoe

9:02 PM

cool

quartata

It's definitely the next step for addressing these autoflagging problems, but using it is going to require some careful thought

there are social issues involved, primarily

SmokeDetector

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

Zoe

Did someone call the plumber at least?

got 8 emails earlier today

Mithrandir

this is... strangely meta spam. medium.com/@liyauxzt/…

and medium.com/@blankjames/…

quartata

Korean spammers do that, where they apologize for spamming

This is more interesting though

SmokeDetector

9:16 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: liveReload plugin not refreshing page on save by Jokz on stackoverflow.com

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer, blacklisted user: Vaccinations and medicines for Peru and Ecuador by Perubybus on travel.SE

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

tpu- by JAD

Undo

@quartata Why would it need a new meta post?

quartata

@Undo fundamental change to autoflagging?

Undo

Is it at least as accurate as before?

Meta told us we can do autoflagging; they didn't approve a specific approach. We don't need to grovel to meta for technical changes

quartata

It catches less TPs at the more conservative flagging condition but much more TPs at the more aggressive condition, all within the standard accuracy ranges we consider

Undo

9:31 PM

If we can migrate people to something at least as good, I'd say just do it automatically

quartata

OK, sure

ArtOfCode

Launch webcast is live

Undo

if someone complains, easy to shut them down with "well yeah, but it is better in every way"

quartata

So 0.98/1/1 would be the new default

Most of the core here would probably run 0.93 - 0.95

All right so I guess there are less social issues

Is it OK to just reset flagging conditions though?

I think we did that before once when we changed the overall accuracy?

WELZ

what's .98?

Undo

9:33 PM

Should be okay, as long as no one becomes less accurate

quartata

The other thing is that you'd have to run a migration to get the new scores on old posts

@Undo .98 is 99.95% accurate which Art said was OK

Undo

Current min is 99.75, so yeah

quartata

oh, .75%?

SmokeDetector

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

quartata

I thought it was 99.5% for some reason

0.93 is too low then

Undo

9:35 PM

99.95 > 99.75

ArtOfCode

@Undo was thinking 99.95% for the default, but we can keep 99.75% as the min

Undo

280/1/1 is currently 100.00%, so... that might be hard to beat

quartata

No I know, I mean for the most aggressive condition

$ ruby liblinear/accuracy.rb .934
51223.0/98.0 = 99.80904503029949%

That looks about the lowest

For some reason there's a landmine of FPs when you drop to .933:

$ ruby liblinear/accuracy.rb .933
52147.0/200.0 = 99.6179341700575%

(note the TP count which is about 10,000 more than our current)

ArtOfCode

0.9335?

quartata

Still .8

This thing tends to be discontinuous

What happens is you get some certain reason combination that is really common that settles to a specific score like .9332 or something

So then you start catching all those, and all the FPs with it

Now what that exact combination is I'm not sure, I could try to find out

That would get a more accurate lower bound

I'm just playing around right now

SmokeDetector

9:39 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: How to download all di.fm & sky.fm playlists at once? by Ade on webapps.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: How to download all di.fm & sky.fm playlists at once? by sandshark on webapps.SE

naa- by Makyen on liveReload plugin not refreshing page on save [MS]

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link: Geoserver ImageMosaic ignores existing datastore.properties (connect to PostGIS) and automatically generates index using shapefile by Kay on gis.SE

quartata

0.07. Poor misleading link :(

ArtOfCode

Ooooh. Launch abort.

quartata

I might want to remap the scores so they range from -1 to 1

e.g 2x - 1

I don't know, do you like them as probabilities

ArtOfCode

that... makes less sense, I think

quartata

I think it's more useful to see 0.5 means 0, since that's what potentially bad keyword gives

SmokeDetector

9:48 PM

Recovered from BrokenPipeError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

fp- by Makyen

naa- by Makyen on How to download all di.fm & sky.fm playlists at once? [MS]

Makyen

@SmokeDetector link-only: go see how I did it here and the code is on GitHub, but nothing more than the links in the answer.

J F

@quartata I like that — -1 is definitely not spam, and 1 is definitely spam. Might be worth multiplying by 100 to make numbers easier to talk about.

WELZ

Let's do it like Fahrenheit (to make it more confusing).... 32 is definitely not spam and 212 definitely is spam

2

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

thesecretmaster

10:04 PM

@quartata Merge my PR then it'll work.

But if you merge it... I'll just have to make another one to keep working :)

Mithrandir

Welp. Launch canceled.

I stayed up for nothing :(

well. another ~10 minutes and i'll finish the first page of domains, though

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Does a vegan diet actually cause weight loss? by yaakov on vegetarianism.SE

quartata

@JF Yeah

SmokeDetector

fp- by ByteCommander

quartata

@thesecretmaster I can't merge PRs on the MS repo, ask Art instead

Mithrandir

10:16 PM

Alright. Going through the first of eight pages of only domains that are tagged #drugs, I found a total of 1756 spam posts on Medium, now linked spread over three gists ([1] [2] [3]).

Undo

criminy

Poor blokes over at Medium are going to be right busy

Mithrandir

Indeed. :D

NobodyNada

@Mithrandir ...wow, all by hand still?

Mithrandir

@NobodyNada yes

manually looking at each one

...now I need to sleep

goodnight y'all

NobodyNada

@Mithrandir Wow, that's really impressive

@Mithrandir night \o

Mithrandir

10:20 PM

let me know if they respond again @art

ArtOfCode

aye

Undo

I wonder if Medium has some way to get new posts in realtime analogous to what we do here

ArtOfCode

@Undo Read the email I sent back? I figure if they want to integrate with us, the "technical discussion" that we need to have includes some way of getting posts in real time

and probably some sort of automated flagging removal thing

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

Undo

@ArtOfCode yep, saw it

NobodyNada

10:22 PM

@ArtOfCode Can these be published under an abuse report?

ArtOfCode

Can what be published?

thesecretmaster

@quartata @ArtOfCode

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode The emails

ArtOfCode

@thesecretmaster want me to merge it?

quartata

well keep in mind any changes you might need run them by me because in probably a month or so I'mma drop a banger that complete rewrites findspam

thesecretmaster

10:23 PM

Ehm.... kinda. I wish you could merge it and leave it open, but that's not how things work.

Eh merge it and I'll make a third.

Undo

PRs are cheap

NobodyNada

@thesecretmaster Just keep pushing to the branch and make a new PR from it

quartata

I will try now to make the "sources" of posts generic, like making bodyfetcher an abstract base class or something

NobodyNada

@quartata niiiice!

thesecretmaster

@NobodyNada I know, already done it once. It's just ugly imo

quartata

10:24 PM

might be interesting

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada I mean... I have no objection to them being public, but the email chain at the moment is mostly not an abuse report, it's Medium asking who we are and how we can help

@thesecretmaster you've got a typo in that PR

Undo

It's only in email because it's convenient for them.

thesecretmaster

@ArtOfCode It's probobly OK?

ArtOfCode

@thesecretmaster where -> whre

so... gonna break things

thesecretmaster

Eeeeh

quartata

10:25 PM

If it gets serious we can take it to Slack, however I suspect what they want are the blacklists

ArtOfCode

We don't have Slack :P

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode It doesn't need to be published and it doesn't need to be under abuse reports, but I'm curious

Undo

pleeeease not another chat platform :P

quartata

No but they will

ArtOfCode

Hi Mateusz,

I'm Owen, aka ArtOfCode. Insofar as we have them, I'm one of the leadership of Charcoal.

For context, it's probably a good idea to have a quick view of who we are. Charcoal is a volunteer, user-run group that aims to detect spam on Stack Exchange and remove it as quickly as possible. We do this with the aid of some software that we've written, called SmokeDetector. SmokeDetector receives a real-time feed of new content posted to Stack Exchange; it runs that content through a set of filters and, if the filters indicate that it could be spam, SmokeDetector posts a report of the …

quartata

10:26 PM

guaranteed

ArtOfCode

meh

NobodyNada

@Undo oh, are the abuse reports for companies to look at? As in, we make an abuse report and send an email to the company saying "look over here?"

ArtOfCode

can always give 'em access here

quartata

at any rate I would say "autoflagging" = add to an abuse report?

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada nah, abuse reports on MS are for Charcoal tracking of reports that would otherwise be confined to the inbox of the person who reported them

thesecretmaster

10:27 PM

Spelling fix pushed

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode That's what I thought; thanks

ArtOfCode

merged

@quartata ?

quartata

Nevermind, I misunderstood abuse reports

Undo

there's some kind of a miscommunication here and I don't know what it is

WELZ

@ArtOfCode I see no mention of teh stickerz

quartata

10:30 PM

I thought it was like what Nobody said

Undo

That's what it should be. Spam removal for stickers.

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on c693b32: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

ArtOfCode

MS abuse reports are Charcoal-internal tracking. You still have to report things to companies manually.

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on c693b32: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

thesecretmaster

@Undo Whenever you get a chance, can you deploy the graphiql fixes?

SmokeDetector

10:31 PM

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on 8c97a54: Your tests failed on CircleCI

quartata

But really honestly don't get your hopes up. We are still very "optimized" for the fact that SE involves a lot of humans. The fact that Smokey casts such a wide net makes it less useful to otjers

Undo

@ArtOfCode unless we got something like RSS working for searches, then they could just get notifications of new posts with Medium URLs in there.

that'd be easily scaleable

ArtOfCode

MS abuse reports and Medium integration are also two entirely separate things :P

Undo

@thesecretmaster You've confirmed that this won't expose anything we don't want to, right?

thesecretmaster

I think @ArtOfCode has read it?

quartata

10:32 PM

yeah the abuse reports were for likr Tumblr and stuff

thesecretmaster

I didn't intend to expose anything we don't want to :)

quartata

because tripleee had to use temporary domain tags

Undo

k, just checking

quartata

and what not

ArtOfCode

@Undo Doesn't expose sensitive DB fields; they're simply not included in the model. To check, @thesecretmaster can you give me a GQL query that queries for fields x, y, and z on post 100000?

thesecretmaster

10:33 PM

{ post(id: 100000) { x y z } }

ArtOfCode

@quartata no, because we were using Teams questions to track who'd reported what to who

thesecretmaster

You can also try it on prod at /api/graphql now

It's just graphiql that isn't working, I think?

Undo

30s

thesecretmaster

Oh nope, it's the whole mess.

Undo

Deployed

thesecretmaster

10:35 PM

Wait noooo

NobodyNada

@art I think email confirmation might have broken something

quartata

ahahaa

thesecretmaster

Why does it work on dev?

ArtOfCode

sure has

NobodyNada

/api/graphql gives me undefined local variable or method 'confirmed_at' for #<User:0x00007f7281110418> Did you mean? confirmed?

ArtOfCode

10:36 PM

Pushed fix, good to deploy

thesecretmaster

Wait, Lemme fix another thing

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode ...where?

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada bah, push failed

actually pushed now

thesecretmaster

@ArtOfCode Merge me?

ArtOfCode

done

thesecretmaster

10:40 PM

K, I'm good to deply too

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 304e321: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 952e832: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 5450d79: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

Lord I've been away from this site too long... Wth happened to Yvette?

ArtOfCode

hm?

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

meta.stackoverflow.com/users/3956566/user3956566?tab=profile

NobodyNada

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs She anonymized herself, likely in response to Jay's blog post & the resulting Meta discussions but I don't know for sure

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:50 PM

Although the name is user3956566, that's Yvette

ArtOfCode

shrug

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

> I'm having a break from the site, things to do

That's a little more than going anon

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Where can i find like-minded martial artists in my area? by Isaiah Smith on martialarts.SE

fp- by ArtOfCode

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@NobodyNada Hmm where can one see this blog post? I don't follow Jay on anything.

ArtOfCode

@Undo Can you do another deploy so that everything stops being broken? :)

WELZ

10:52 PM

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs and Magisch as well

ArtOfCode

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs stackoverflow.blog

WELZ

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I was gonna ping you to ask where you've been, but I just assumed you "had your reasons"

NobodyNada

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/… .

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@WELZ Meh I am protesting till I get meh stickerz

WELZ

Still?!

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:53 PM

IKR?!?!? :P

ArtOfCode

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs speaking of, I stuck the new lot in the post $NotVeryLongAgo

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

Lol I was jk btw

WELZ

@Catija did you get the stickers from Art yet?

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

But gtk

Life just consumed me into a black hole

Catija

@WELZ Nope.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:54 PM

#Fail

WELZ

Postal service lost them -_-

Catija

Seems that way.

NobodyNada

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I know what that's like...glad to see you back

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

Thanks for the links @Art @Nobody

Catija

The first batch came in so quickly and without a problem... wasn't really expecting it.

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:55 PM

@NobodyNada Thanks

quartata

@ArtOfCode github.com/Charcoal-SE/metasmoke/pull/414

NobodyNada

afk, time to drive home

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body: Parsing JSON file in powershell with specific characters by Adam Sanders on stackoverflow.com

WELZ

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs In other news... I'm running for mod on GD

ArtOfCode

@quartata ?

quartata

10:56 PM

what do you mean

it's a PR

it allows you to inject code straight into your veins

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@WELZ Ahh I got to get the rep to vote there ... Can't have you running

:D

quartata

oh I guess I should explain why

WELZ

@K.Dᴀᴠɪs I'm currently running uncontested.

SmokeDetector

fp- by Makyen

quartata

so like before I was an idiot and made it so that when you do !!/approve it tries to acquire a lock

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

10:57 PM

@WELZ NoOoOoooOO!!!!

quartata

but the lock is just a class variable so it's not shared across workers

so I replaced it with a write lock on some random git file

WELZ

so, if you quickly get 300 rep, I'll vote you as my 2nd choice!

quartata

that should actually work

K.Dᴀᴠɪs

@WELZ Meh well in that case . . . .

WELZ

I can approve your edits and also if you just post 2 or 3 really good answers you already have 300

SmokeDetector

10:58 PM

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on b2b4eb1: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

ArtOfCode

@quartata Start from the start. What does it do, and why do we need it?

quartata

4 mins ago, by quartata

so like before I was an idiot and made it so that when you do !!/approve it tries to acquire a lock

So that if two !!/approves fire at the same time, one doesn't screw up the other

SmokeDetector

Recovered from websocket._exceptions.WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.

quartata

(although Git would just fail most likely)

The way I was locking before doesn't really work though

This way does

ArtOfCode

Is having that metasmoke-side deliberate? Seems like you'd need to lock on the Smokey side if you're talking about a command.

quartata

11:04 PM

No I mean when you type !!/approve on a PR. Pullapprove.

ArtOfCode

Ah

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on bf92c2a: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

quartata

will need Undo to stick around after deploy to test it

WELZ

Ms down?

ArtOfCode

yes

quartata

11:12 PM

no, just a bug

I mean

"yes" loosely

@ArtOfCode do you have the latest TTD data so I can run the test between 3 vs 4 and 4 vs 5 again

now that we're talking about that again

ArtOfCode

there's a query for it in the SQL exploder

quartata

which doesn't work currently

well I'll wait

ArtOfCode

okay fair point

quartata

the results will probably be the same though

ArtOfCode

I don't think my dump is too old

quartata

11:16 PM

which is that the difference between 3 and 4 is not nearly as statistically significant as the difference between 4 and 5

although we do have the new deletion watcher

ArtOfCode

I pulled that specific stat not long ago, hold on

quartata

so the TTD data might be a bit different

Mar 6 at 18:32, by quartata

@Undo t = -2.6374006236321903, v = 68.88519325013864, tcdf(t, v) = .005159

Mar 6 at 18:38, by quartata

On the other hand, 3 vs 4 is much weaker (p = 0.03)

ArtOfCode

Around 59s average at 3

33s at 4

13s at 5

quartata

so that hasn't changed much

(do you have the stdevs on hand?)

oh... wait

this is all the old data

we haven't run it since the new deletionwatcher

so yeah it hasn't changed, duh

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How do the numbers and letters differ in hexadecimal colours? by Prasad MK on stackoverflow.com

naa- by ArtOfCode

quartata

11:19 PM

You know, implementation wise, 4 flags in the manner @Undo suggested would be very easy. All you would do is give System a flagging condition and make it count outside the number of flags

(e.g. core_count -= 1 unless user.id == -1)

or whatever it is

just set the flagging condition from the console?

and set it to 280 or 300 or whatever we decided

or .993 for the new system

That would be nice because then admins could adjust it from the UI

or disable the flagging condition in an emergency

Lot of functionality built in

pretty painless, all in all

J F

11:41 PM

@ArtOfCode GraphiQL is broken. Does it require Auth in order to work?

ArtOfCode

literally everything is broken right now

thesecretmaster

Please deploy <3

J F

MS works mostly fine if you’re logged out though

thesecretmaster

Except graphql

quartata

undo needs a pager tbh

Makyen

11:45 PM

@thesecretmaster [tag:dev-on-prod] [tag:everything-is-broken] [tag:failure-as-a-service] [tag:panic-driven-development]

NobodyNada

Would it be worth giving Art the ability to deploy? (or is that too much access?)

thesecretmaster

I wanna dev on prod but I need to deploy

@NobodyNada Meh, it's nothing super important that's broken.

It's the new sparkley stuff

NobodyNada

@thesecretmaster Sure, and it's not a big deal -- it's just that sometimes another deployer would speed things up a bit

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada I have... just about all the accesses apart from that

Historically I haven't had that so that Undo is the final point of responsibility and sanity-checking of code before it makes it to running alongside the sensitive data.

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode Right -- and being a GH admin already lets you run whatever you want on everyone's servers through Smokey

I don't think it's a big risk, but I'm not in charge

ArtOfCode

11:51 PM

Aye, which is why metasmoke handles the sensitive stuff

Undo has been talking recently about a CI job or deploy keys for me, so I don't think it's at all outside the realm of possibility

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Shortened URL in body: Domain specific language naming conventions by Tobby P on security.SE

fp- by NobodyNada

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Toxic answer detected: Not having to explain my reasons for wanting to keep my last name by Heckflosse_230 on interpersonal.SE

tpu- by NobodyNada

Undo

I picked a poor time to disappear

@quartata Yep, that's roughly what I was thinking (System already has a good API token, IIRC).

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