Charcoal HQ

it's a local tradition for kids to help harvest the grapes and as reward everyone who helped harvest that day can have some free grape juice from the grapes to take home and there's a big dinner for all the volunteers

iBug

it's a remote tradition to send stickers to everyone who helped fight off spam

terdon

@iBug Yes, but which sounds you find hard depends on what you are used to speaking.

iBug

@terdon hah, Chinese (and English)

terdon

For English-speakers, the single r in Spanish is also hard, for instance. The doubles are longer, but the single should also be rolled, unlike the English one.

Magisch

If you look at it objectively, it's basicly unpaid child labor but back when I did it I was always so excited to carry grapes down the mountain

Henders

12:31 PM

You're not forced to do it though...

terdon

And it isn't unpaid, you get grapes!

doppelgreener

it's unpaid child labour from a western capitalist perspective, but it sounds like a really super community activity.

Henders

Not if it is marketed as a voluntary activity which you choose to partake in.

iBug

@terdon Single R doesn't seem to be a problem for me

If it's not at the beginning of a word, or after N/L/S

Magisch

@Henders It is, you actually have to sign up months in advance because too many kids want to participate

iBug

12:34 PM

where it pronounces the same as rr

Henders

@Magisch Exactly, if nobody was interested in doing it, one could reasonably assume they'd just pay people to do it

Magisch

When I was like 10 I always did it with my friends we always looked forward to doing that on the weekend. Strangely enough picking grapes and carrying them down a mountain was fun

doppelgreener

it does sound like a lot of fun. :)

Henders

Yep, part of a team who are having fun together. Best kind!

iBug

when I was ten, i played computer games

doppelgreener

12:36 PM

right! and productive, meaningful activities are often satisfying and fulfilling.

iBug

I first took down my school's online system when I was 16

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in answer: True languages that pirates spoke by Steph Curry on linguistics.SE

doppelgreener

wow XD

iBug

and got suspended for 2 to 3 days

SmokeDetector

tpu- by doppelgreener

iBug

12:37 PM

I took it down again after graduation

and they didn't found me

terdon

What a crappy thing to do :(

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body: Free to work as an Android developer cum Backend Developer by Akshay Rohilla on stackoverflow.com

iBug

I wrote a malicious program when I was 15, and it stole some credentials of school online system from teachers.

WELZ

you're terrible! Lmao

SmokeDetector

fp- by suraj

iBug

12:42 PM

@terdon It was some ASP.NET application running on IIS 7.5, so easy to get it take itself down.

You only need a few malicious requests to make it start looping in its internals.

terdon

@iBug Still a crappy thing to do to some poor school sysadmin.

iBug

yeah, the school sys admins were poor (both poor and poor)

terdon

You could at least have let them know how you did it so they could protect the system. Otherwise, it's just pointless vandalism.

tripleee

you should know better now than brag about sabotage you did when you didn't

iBug

I did it once for a security issue.

but the exploit of performance issue wasn't intentional

And it was years ago...

I was trying to download some scattered data using a coarse javascript that I wrote when I accidentally sent some wrong requests, then the server stirred itself up.

The solution was simple: they killed the application and restarted it.

SmokeDetector

12:49 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body: I am back after being banned lol by Abcdef3737 on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by PeterJ

iBug

@SmokeDetector k

@SmokeDetector Good title! LOL.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, blacklisted user: How to highlight some attribute value of some XML tags in Emacs Web mode? by Abcdef3737 on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by A J

tripleee

@iBug at last! we waited so

uh of course I mean WE WAITED SO

iBug

@tripleee I was only 16 when I committed the havocs, and I am significantly more (mentally) mature now.

tripleee

@iBug you don't seem particularly remorseful

iBug

12:55 PM

@tripleee of course, I'm the weird kind of people who often focus on how they did instead of what aftermath they brought.

Lynn Crumbling

@SmokeDetector why

SmokeDetector

Post - Contains 6 unique characters
Blacklisted user - blacklisted for //stackoverflow.com/questions/49278211 (https://m.erwaysoftware.com/posts/by-url?url=//stackoverflow.com/questions/49278211) by the metasmoke API

iBug

I'm always proud that I had such skills when I was that young.

well, one of the (lesser) reasons may be peer's compliment.

Lynn Crumbling

It surprises me that "GAY" isn't matching pattern

iBug

@LynnCrumbling Gay can mean "happy"

"Homosexual" isn't its only meaning.

Just treat those stories as stories and pretend it's not really iBug who did them.

Lynn Crumbling

12:59 PM

I'm aware. Does Smokey have multiple levels of matches?

iBug

@LynnCrumbling What do you mean by "levels"?

Lynn Crumbling

"definitely bad words" vs. "possibly bad words"?

iBug

For all patterns/reasons, the result is binary: Match, or No Match.

tripleee

@LynnCrumbling there is that but watching "gay" is probably rather FP-prone

blacklisting vs watching

iBug

@LynnCrumbling There's a series of "experimental" reasons, but they're still binary.

tripleee

1:00 PM

github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/wiki/…

iBug

i.e., this post matches an experimental pattern.

tripleee

^ documentation about these features

Lynn Crumbling

There's only been 511 posts with "gay" in all of the 15M question history...

I don't think you're going to get an excessive amount of fp...

iBug

@LynnCrumbling That means 511 false positives.

We only have 16.7k FPs so far, so 0.5k is a huge amount for a single word.

Lynn Crumbling

Ah, ok.

tripleee

1:05 PM

metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/… is somewhat instructive, some of the sites are specifically suitable for discussing human sexuality so in isolation this is not a very good indicator of problematic content

(you need to be logged in to metasmoke for regex search to work)

PeterJ

@LynnCrumbling It'd also pose a problem for Aussies that wanted to ask questions about a popular ice cream: streetsicecream.com.au/Brand/Golden_Gaytime.aspx

tripleee

but I wouldn't dismiss it offhand, we can probably come up with a good enough heuristic if it becomes particularly problematic

remember though that we are primarily here to detect spam, not off-topic rants

iBug

if it becomes problematic

tripleee

like at one point it made sense to blacklist "holocaust" because there was a busy troll who posted on that topic

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating words in body: google search api for linkdin by Haro on stackoverflow.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in link text in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body, phone number detected in title, +1 more: Yahoo Helpline Number 1-888-315-8364 by missi jhon on ham.SE

Lynn Crumbling

1:07 PM

@tripleee Yep, I originally had that thought; my first thought was SO-specific, but superuser would be a good candidate... only 5 matches

SmokeDetector

tp- by tripleee on google search api for linkdin [MS]

tpu- by tripleee

tpu- by chade_ on google search api for linkdin [MS]

iBug

@SmokeDetector tp- for our purpose

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: I even ate only one plate of suppers on Thanksgiving! by liqgmaile on askubuntu.com

iBug

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Good NS for domain in body, good keyword in body, reputable website in body, compliment at end of body, positively-recognised website in body, +7 more

Mithrandir

1:26 PM

@iBug del

@SmokeDetector k

iBug

@Mithrandir That's not a report.

Mithrandir

@iBug tn-

iBug

@Mithrandir That's not a report.

Magisch

@iBug del

WELZ

When are elections officially done (for regular SE sites)? (Is there a set time, or do CM's just feel...?)

Cerbrus

1:39 PM

Depending on the site's needs, afaik

Always 2 wks

2? 6-8

@Cerbrus ur right

@ThomasWard you around?

tripleee

49

Q: When do moderator elections take place?

I'm really confused on this. I have no idea on several things: When do elections begin? Is there a set time each year? Do elections actually take place each year? Can I vote? Where do I vote? Etc. Can someone please help me?

support moderators election faq-proposed

quartata

1:58 PM

!!/standby Solar

SmokeDetector

teward/Solar Flare is switching to standby (@quartata)

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 355a4ae (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of aecoverseas\.com by WELZ --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

NobodyNada/Raspberry Pi received failover signal.

Restart: API quota is 18528.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in answer: True languages that pirates spoke by Steph Curry on linguistics.SE

tpu- by WELZ

WELZ

rereport

tripleee

!!/report linguistics.stackexchange.com/a/27430/1668

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: True languages that pirates spoke by Ballsy Man on linguistics.SE

tripleee

^ a new answer was posted which was abusive and which wasn't caught

that's what triggered the rereport

SmokeDetector

2:01 PM

tpu- by PeterJ

WELZ

they're still alive....

one of them is over an hour -_-

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Calculate weighted average of a pixel, using 5x5 kernel (bilinear 5x5) by CodeJens on stackoverflow.com

iBug

A small survey here

Smokey currently lists the first 5 reasons for a report

Some of us has thought it excessive

Pick a number you think OK: 1, 2, 3, 4, retain

M.A.R.

2:16 PM

@iBug 3

Two reasons can be on unclear spam.

3 reasons is almost always obvious spam. Haven't checked though

@SmokeDetector K

@SmokeDetector F

@SmokeDetector K

@SmokeDetector hehe that's interesting spam

WELZ

I say, the first 2 (ordered by reason weight) and also the actual total weight of the post.

Glorfindel

I say as much as fits into the chat message.

iBug

Reason weight isn't available to Smokey

@WELZ [status-declined]

M.A.R.

@WELZ that could work too

WELZ

that's not a ~~report~~ tag.

iBug

2:26 PM

I'm trying to do this, tell me what you think:

M.A.R.

Yay, my idea is the bestest

iBug

Start at 5, and if the message is too long, use 4, and if still too long, use 3

If it's still too long, drop MS link and use 5

M.A.R.

@iBug so basically what @Glor said

@iBug no

Or yes if you want us to freak out like this morning

Glorfindel

No, the MS link should never be dropped. Too many userscripts (2, maybe 3) rely on that.

iBug

So go all the way down till one?

Like "one single reason, +8 more: long long title by long long user"?

Cerbrus

2:28 PM

@Glorfindel This.

FIRE gets most of its data from the MetaSmoke link

Glorfindel

@iBug no. The reasons themselves are also interesting, especially for posts in the <300 area.

Magisch

MS link is deeply necessary

iBug

So how do we handle?

Note: Smokey doesn't know reason weight. It's MS's job.

M.A.R.

Just what's wrong with going with three?

It's also just one number, and neater

My point was reasons 4 and 5 are rarely read, let alone paid attention to

iBug

I'm planning to do this: 5 with MS, 4 with MS, 3 with MS, 5 without MS, truncate message

The first that fits will be used.

Cerbrus

2:33 PM

@iBug As discussed, Always leave the MS link in.

M.A.R.

@iBug scratch 5 without MS

iBug

Or just 5MS, 4MS, 3MS then Trunc?

M.A.R.

@iBug this

iBug

So if the message is really really long, the result is 3 reasons with MS and truncated message

Cerbrus

Let's put it this way: Are you willing to break FIRE and other userscripts?

iBug

2:34 PM

It currently is (and I see FIRE working?)

WELZ

I like shortening of the reasons themselves... they don't need to be so long

iBug

Anyone disagree with "5 MS, 4 MS, 3 MS, Trunc"?

I dropped "5 no MS"

Cerbrus

Also, changing the message format could break FIRE.

M.A.R.

@Cerbrus YES!

iBug

@Cerbrus That's the rarest case.

M.A.R.

2:36 PM

Dang fast flaggers, I never get to flag on mobile and this slow internet

Cerbrus

@iBug It shouldn't be a case.

iBug

I'm going to implement "5 MS, 4 MS, 3 MS, then Trunc"

M.A.R.

@Cerbrus I don't think trunc would ever happen

iBug

@Cerbrus How do we solve it?

@Cerbrus Note message truncating is currently in effect

I don't think it has ever happened.

M.A.R.

Unless it's a troll that wants to specifically target Charcoal to break fire, and knows chat and its limits

Cerbrus

2:38 PM

I'm not talking about a truncated title

M.A.R.

So, never

Cerbrus

But the format changing

M.A.R.

@Cerbrus bunnies?

iBug

@Cerbrus The format won't change

M.A.R.

@Cerbrus no MS? We agreed it wouldn't happen

iBug

2:39 PM

I'm only trying to prevent dropping MS link by reducing reason count.

Cerbrus

What report was problematic? (linkplz)

M.A.R.

3 hours ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, repeated URL at end of long post: Truly, we have a total posting of segments (which we'll get into underneath), by Andesch84 Virk on graphicdesign.SE

WELZ

github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/issues/1737

Cerbrus

@M.A.R. Ah, so that dropped the MS link?

M.A.R.

@Cerbrus yep

WELZ

2:41 PM

@Cerbrus yes, but FIRE still had the MS button (and it worked)

M.A.R.

I searched for @Welz's "wtf" to find it

Cerbrus

Eh, waitwat, FIRE actually works there...

Nevermind all that what I just said

I must be mis-remembering how I made FIRE

iBug

So how?

M.A.R.

@iBug I'd still say never leave out the MS in the message

It's so neat

Cerbrus

@M.A.R. agreed

iBug

2:43 PM

Two options here: 5 MS to 3 MS, then Truncate. Option A: Try 5 without MS before truncating message. Option B: Truncate message and don't try dropping MS link.

M.A.R.

@iBug B++

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer, no whitespace in answer, repeating characters in answer: Direct self-reference leading to cycle exception by das on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by iBug

iBug

implementing B

Glorfindel

B. Also note that AIM has functionality to edit all the reasons back in the post, but it's broken since the metasmoke v2 API and I couldn't find time to fix it (I think it's AIM's least useful function).

M.A.R.

@iBug yay

iBug

2:52 PM

Follow PR #1738. I will fix CI error (if there exist)

M.A.R.

It's really not fair.

Charcoal's got only @Art (ugh) but SOCVR had two or three people