English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2016-08-25 (page 4 of 5)

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10:00 PM

@Cerberus After one mod got sacked by SE, there was an election to replace him. At least two 30k+ rep users (including the site's top user) got suspended during the election. Several candidates were targeted by one or more users, leading to fights all over SFF meta and main meta. Another 20k user threatened to delete his account if a particular candidate won, and did so. One of the incumbent mods also deleted his account unexpectedly due to the election results.

Fortunately, things settled down after that.

First, ELU has had its issues but in clubs not in spades like SFF. Second, I don't think it's healthy dredging this up.

I don't get the distinction between clubs and spades. And Cerb asked!

@Cerb Which is worse, clubs or spades?

> Trump: Q♧ Q♤ Q♥ Q♢ J♧ J♤ J♥ J♢ A♢ 10♢ K♢ 9♢ 8♢ 7♢. Fail: A 10 K 9 8 7.

On a lighter note, would this question from earlier (or some variant or rewording of it, perhaps) be on-topic for ELU?

@Randal'Thor This is a test, right?

10:09 PM

No.

I genuinely want to ask that question, if it's allowed.

Six and fifty.

> 1 circumquaque
2 equivoque
3 harlequinesque
4 Qallunaaq
5 quaquaversal
6 quaquaversality
7 quaquaversally
8 quasquicentennial
9 querquedule
10 Quicunque vult
11 quinquagenarian
12 quinquagenary
13 Quinquagesima
14 quinquagesimal
15 quinquagint
16 quinquangular
17 quinquangulate
18 quinquarticular
19 Quinquatria
20 Quinquatrian
21 Quinquatric
22 quinque-
23 quinquefid
24 quinqueliteral
25 quinquenary
26 quinquennarian
27 quinquennia
28 quinquenniad
29 quinquennial
30 quinquennialist
31 quinquennially

And no, it isn't on-topic. :)

Harlequinesque - love it!

Because it requires nothing more than a remedial command of regular expressions and access to the full OED. :)

Qallunaaq sounds more Inuit than English.

Innit tho?

10:10 PM

And quomodocunquiser isn't on there.

I demand my money back.

@Randal'Thor Watch your mouth!

@Randal'Thor Oh, no, I think you're up to date.

Except that you couldn't see the deleted comments in which J*ff cursed at Kosmo and the whole site.

Plus he spelt it wrong.

Quomodocunquizer is carrot.

echo quomodocunquize | translate --language @Cerberus

@Randal'Thor Wow, so what triggered all that? Why was this mod "sacked"?

I have a suggestion, guys.

10:16 PM

@tchrist I have no idea what you mean, but you get 30 points for a spade, 20 for a club, so it's 4 spades to the manche, 5 clubs.

@Cerberus Indeed. I searched for them in chat too, but apparently nobody quoted them directly. Maybe I'm better off not knowing?

@tchrist I'm European. I use -ise, not -ize.

@tchrist Quid significat istud?

@Randal'Thor No, you aren't. You're English of the sub-Oxford flavor.

@Randal'Thor I don't remember the exact wording either.

But it was terrible.

@tchrist And England is in Europe, n'est-ce pas?

10:17 PM

@tchrist No sub!

@Randal'Thor Still!

@Cerberus It means to pecuniate in whatsoever method should prove efficacious.

@Cerberus ante? pre?

@Mitch Fluffy angel wings.

@tchrist Yes, Randy told me so, but what about it?

@Randal'Thor pense pas

@tchrist Iuxta.

Cum.

10:18 PM

Well, were he but classically educated, he would have spelt it better.

Nah.

There is something to say for both schools.

Don't make me cite Oxford for things you well know.

I won't.

Both -ise and -ize exist in Greek, just in different cases.

And please don't drag the Deryni into this.

@Cerberus The public answer to that (second) question is here.

@Cerberus Britain will always be part of Europe, whether or not it remains in the EU. Until they drag the island off the seabed and tow it over to nestle its head in the nether regions of the US.

@tchrist Are you saying the Americans are more classically educated than the British?!

10:21 PM

Sigh.

Looks like I have a couple three layers of awareness here on you. I'm trying to decide whether to take the time to unwoollenize thine eyes just right now.

But you've take what I've said at least two ways wrong.

I admit that I was being deliberately ambiguous in playful fashion.

But that was not at all what I meant.

I didn't actually think you meant that.

I suspect you are simply unaware of the finer parts of the Oxford argument for one thing.

I'm aware of the fact that many American spellings are actually more similar to archaic English spellings than modern British spellings are.

That's for the most part not true.

I was being slightly humourous in attempting to defend my continent.

10:26 PM

You don't live on a continent, I keep telling you. You are an insular denizen not a continental one.

You were being slightly patronising :-)

(no, not patronizing)

Everyone has their own language.

Each one of us.

@Randal'Thor Thanks for the link!

Those edits are indeed a bit weird.

@Randal'Thor Oh, yes, absolutely.

@tchrist Define 'continent'.

But don't compliment America so; it is nowhere near the nether regions.

@Randal'Thor chuckles

10:28 PM

@Cerberus I dwell not a mile beneath Nederland.

@tchrist Very well; you alone are so low.

@Randal'Thor What he probably means is that some Greek forms that -ize/-ise verbs are based on do use a z in Greek.

However, others are based on a Greek s.

It is true, though, that Oxford tries to use z where Greek uses z, and s where Greek uses s.

The use of ‘-ize’ spellings is part of the house style at Oxford University Press. ... These early works chose the ‘-ize’ spellings as their preferred forms for etymological reasons...

Even so, I think that is often artificial or impossible, for e.g. both phraze and phrase can be defended.

@Cerberus Oh, I didn't mean those nether regions! My implication was entirely different ;-)

It is a myth that "America" spells everything with -ize anyway.

10:31 PM

@Randal'Thor Oh, phew!

But please read what Oxford has to say about all this.

I know it.

I was talking to our unclassicist, not to you.

@tchrist Do Americans say "advertise"?

I know you know.

10:32 PM

@tchrist Well, pardon me for not having gone to Eton :-P

@Randal'Thor Of course.

Except like any sane person we actually say /ˈæd.vəɹ.taɪz/.

Matt E. Эллен

I hear Eton's a mess

Nobody in the world says "advertise".

@MattE.Эллен Nice and sticky.

But we write advertise yes.

10:34 PM

@tchrist That's the same as the European pronunciation (unless I've forgotten my IPA).

@tchrist Oh, you'd be surprised.

Err surprized.

@Randal'Thor Cornish are ya?

@Randal'Thor Except for the r.

@MattE.Эллен I was going to say "public school" in general, but that's too easy to misinterpret by those who don't know the terminology of the British school system.

Doesn't everyone know?

Matt E. Эллен

10:35 PM

true

@tchrist ... no, why?

The r.

Although I'd like to be - Cornwall is a wonderful place.

Now I'm wondering how widely known Eton mess is.

Matt E. Эллен

down in Penzance

@Cerberus me too!

10:36 PM

Some people know it here, but not many.

@Randal'Thor Yourrarres.

@MattE.Эллен Why is Eton a mess?

Matt E. Эллен

Eton mess is a traditional English dessert consisting of a mixture of strawberries or bananas, pieces of meringue, and cream, which is traditionally served at Eton College's annual cricket match against the pupils of Harrow School. The dish has been known by this name since the 19th century. According to Recipes from the Dairy (1995) by Robin Weir, who spoke to Eton College's librarian, Eton mess was served in the 1930s in the school's "sock shop" (tuck shop), and was originally made with either strawberries or bananas mixed with ice-cream or cream. Meringue was a later addition, and may have been...

@Randal'Thor Clearly more people need to read Wodehouse.

@MattE.Эллен Ah, I see. Never heard of it.

Sounds indigestible. Like the common run of English dessert. I lived in the UK for a few years, and concluded that English people have cast-iron stomachs.

@Cerberus In the US, I believe "public school" means pretty much the opposite of what it does here.

@FaheemMitha pats belly clangingly

@MattE.Эллен Ahh, Penzance ... nostalgic sigh

Matt E. Эллен

10:39 PM

@Randal'Thor where there be pirates! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

"public school" is a confusing bit of terminology. Then again, Eton is (or used to be) called Eton College.

@MattE.Эллен And pasties! yummmmm

Though, of course, it's a school.

@Randal'Thor Again I beg, keep it clean.

But perhaps college actually means school.

10:41 PM

@MattE.Эллен Do you know Penzance, or are you just referring to the G&S thing?

@tchrist Why are pies unclean?

@tchrist I'm not sure if you're making some sort of joke, or if there's some chatroom etiquette I'm unaware of ...

Matt E. Эллен

@Randal'Thor I've not been. I've only been as far as St. Ives.

Eton is really really expensive. Has anyone here been to an English public school?

@FaheemMitha College always means school, except when it means flock.

10:42 PM

@Randal'Thor I'd vote for an attempted exercise in humor. Too sophisticated for the peasantry.

@Randal'Thor Oh, I see.

@tchrist How nice that us humans have language to communicate with.

> In ancient Rome a collegium was a club or society, a group of people living together under a common set of rules (con- = "together" + leg- = "law" or lego = "I choose" or "I read").

@FaheemMitha At Eton and Winchester (and probably other places too), college means school. At Oxford and Cambridge, college means part of a university (a strange sort of institution, with unclear status and loads of money). Colleges can also be sort of mini-universities, and I believe the word has still other meanings in the US.

Hmm, that could include a drinking society. Or a frat.

@FaheemMitha Drat @tchrist and his sophistication.

10:45 PM

@Randal'Thor College these days is most likely to be understood to be part of a university, due to the gravitational pull of American terminology.

@FaheemMitha College means flock when it's the College of Cardinals, rarae aves though they may be.

@tchrist Ok.

So, no ex-public school boys here? I did go to Cambridge. Which in my part of the world is unusual verging on the bizarre.

@Randal'Thor If you expect me to exercize just to humerus, you've got another thunk coming.

@FaheemMitha Different sources give me different etymologies.

I kind of wish I'd gone to a English public school. It couldn't have been worse than the school I'd gone to. And I could go around speaking with one of those wacky English accents.

10:46 PM

@FaheemMitha So which college did you go to?

@Cerberus What other etymologies are you seeing?

@Randal'Thor Trinity. Is that important?

Oh, I see. Humor.

*Humour :-P

LOL

@FaheemMitha The OED says it is from legere "to choose", but this Dutch etymological dictionary says it's from legare "to bind" (like lex "law").

@Cerberus Wow. When experts disagree...

10:48 PM

I trust the Dutch dictionary more than the OED with respect to non-English etymology.

Which Dutch dictionary?

The OED's is usually absent, and occasionally sloppy or not up to date.

I see the problem as stopping when it leaves English.

@Cerberus How shocking. Clearly they need to hire a better class of staff.

Less Oxbridge graduates, perhaps.

Find people who know something.

M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands

@FaheemMitha Hah!

10:50 PM

Are we searching for college's etymon?

Well, the OED just doesn't really try.

It stops at most Latin or Greek that it finds.

It is very good with Anglo-Saxon etymology, though.

I wonder how dictionaries figure etymologies out, anyway. I mean, they can't whistle up a time machine.

@tchrist Well, I have found it, but yes.

Collegium derives from colligere, no?

Most probably not.

10:51 PM

@FaheemMitha Heh :-D

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

@FaheemMitha The OED says it is from legere "to choose", but this Dutch etymological dictionary says it's from legare "to bind" (like lex "law").

It's not just the OED.

Me: Sure, I will do your work.
He: Thank you so much!
Me: You're welcome.

So Question is, You're welcome is good responce or is there any professional typo responce to Thank you?

Matt E. Эллен

> Old French collége (= Provençal college , Spanish colegio , Italian collegio ), < Latin collēgium colleagueship, partnership, hence a body of colleagues, a fraternity, < collēga colleague n. (Compare convivium, judicium.) The early by-form collegie, -ÿ, appears to have been formed directly from the Latin: compare similar forms of privilege, sacrilege.

@FaheemMitha To some people it is. But not as important as which subject you studied, of course.

10:52 PM

BTW, does anyone here watch University Challenge?

@FaheemMitha They use a combination of instruments. Corporeal research, in which they trace back the earliest forms of a word, to see what came before it and what words were in use at the time. Phonological laws. Comparison with other languages. Etc.

@Cerberus Oh. Ok.

@YOU "You're welcome" is perfect, it's professional.

@Randal'Thor Did you go to Oxbridge?

And Latin certainly had collega.

10:53 PM

@FaheemMitha I think I have seen bit of it once. It was respectable!

@Cerberus It's quite entertaining. I thought so, anyway.

@Cerberus What about No Problem? Or just :) smile icon?

Though sometimes it's funny what the young things don't know.

@tchrist Yes, it is quite interesting, because both etymologies would be immediately attractive.

@FaheemMitha I do!

1 hour ago, by Rand al'Thor

@Mitch I only know this phrase thanks to University Challenge :-P

10:55 PM

@YOU Less professional.

But probably OK if your contact with these people is informal.

@Cerberus Yes.

@FaheemMitha Oh, like what?

@Randal'Thor Oh, I missed that. I was telling Anthony about it over in U&L the other day. He hadn't heard of it.

@Cerberus Hmm. Basic math stuff, for example.

I'd have to go back and rewatch the episodes.

Ah, but you have studied something to do with mathematics?

At one point Paxman asked them some basic Complex Analysis questions, and they had no idea what he was talking about.

But in fairness, Maths isn't pushed hard in the British curriculum.

@Cerberus Who, me? Yes, I have two degrees in math. One in statistics.

10:58 PM

@Cerberus Thank you!

@FaheemMitha I'm a mathematician, which actually means I tend not to be too disappointed by their lack of maths knowledge, since from my point of view, almost everyone knows almost nothing about maths ;-)

One more question.

@FaheemMitha Well, then I'm not surprised that you should be surprised at their lack of knowledge.

@Randal'Thor yes, that's an accurate description of the general populace. Though I might replace "almost nothing" by "nothing".

Respectfully,
Name Here

Regards,
Name Here

Best Regards,
Name Here

Kind Regards,
Name Here

Which is most perfect to use in professional way?

10:59 PM

I know 1+1=2.

But a basic level of mathematical literacy (and statistical literacy) wouldn't hurt anyone.

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