English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-07-20 (page 4 of 5)

« first day (617 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (4303 days later) »

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:10 PM

@Cerb, you are confusing mobile data and mobile voice. They are using the same radio. By your own admission, if you were on WiFi all day yesterday, you didn't have any mobile data connection happening, so why would it show up on the graph at all?

I'm not disputing that the mobile radio uses more power than the wifi radio. What I'm disputing is that running TWO radios will save you power over running just ONE radio.

specifically: while the phone is sleeping

Hey, if this thing works, it could be awesome: lazytruth.com

Cute.

What do you suppose the chances are that I will find a Flame Sagittario at KMart if the website says they are out of stock?

cute, but dubious usability

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I didn't make any calls in those 4 hours. And my 3G connection was active all the time, that's the way it works.

I mean, it's not in a data session.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus were you at home?

connected to wifi?

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:24 PM

so you were connected to wifi, therefore not using the 3g at all

Matt Эллен

@KitFox 50:50

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Exactly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so how long do you think that "standby" line would be if the wifi was off while your phone was sleeping?

If "sleeping" means it won't connect to Wifi even when the phone wants data, that means it would initiate active sessions to 3G, so it would use more power.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

the point is that "standby" happens because your cell radio is ON. it happens whether the phone is awake or asleep or using 3g or not using 3g.

@Cerberus sleeping means the screen is off. Not that Wi-Fi is off. Wi-Fi doesn't sleep.

hang on

5:26 PM

Well, whatever that setting means.

As I said from the beginning, I don't know what those words mean.

"Keep Wifi on during sleep".

@MattЭллен Hmm. Maybe I will leave early and check.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

right, I think you are interpretting it correctly. While the screen is off, it doesn't turn the wi-fi on to use data, it uses the 3G connection it already has

Later!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

your phone is already standing-by, scanning cell towers all the time.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox it's worth a pop, depending on your area. maybe the kmart doesn't get many beyblade hungry kids...

CU

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:28 PM

so whatever scanning it will do to maintain voice-call capability it will also be doing to maintain 3g capability because it's the same network

unless you turn that whole cell radio off, it will be scanning all the time

Matt Эллен

so you guys leave your 3G on all the time?

crazy

Right, well, don't you think the cell entry would be much higher if it had to get data while the phone was asleep?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm not convinced that it "scans harder" or something when it's looking for data.

Matt Эллен

your batteries must deplete really quickly

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus THAT depends on how much data your phone transfers while sleeping

5:30 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's not entirely correct: if you turn off 3G, but keep 2G data connections available, you will also use less power if you download the same data.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

because having the wifi radio on DOES consume power

Yes, but did you see how little?

That was what I wanted to show you.

Even with data usage.

So keeping Wifi on just doesn't use much power.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus so you're telling me that if you had turned wi-fi off, and reduced that 4% down to 0%, then your "standby" would have gone up past 14%?

Yes, most probably.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't think it's probable at all

unless you're transferring a lot of data while sleeping

My phone has been unplugged from the charger for 6 hours

my Cell standby is 17% of my battery use, and my wi-fi is ALSO 17%

5:34 PM

Then what the heck have you been doing with your Wifi?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The phone has pretty much been in my pocket all day

My cell reception is good, so it can't be that my cell radio has been laboriously scanning all the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and I sit right next to my access-point

Odd.

How come your Wifi is so high, then?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

maybe the question is how come your standby is so high? we're talking about relative percentages

5:36 PM

What does your Phone Idle say?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6%

Mine says 33 % and 22 %.

What would be the most constant factor?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

user image

Android OS says 6 % and 16 %.

I am beginning to think our phones' hardware is very different.

Hey, you have Bluetooth on?

Is that very low?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't see an entry for it

5:39 PM

I also see that you have 3 bars cell reception. I have 4.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm...

So perhaps Bluetooth scanning is negligible (I know it does use significant power when connected)?

Or is it part of Android OS or something?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can also see that I have a message in gmail and that I run the NotificationToggle app (I think you might like that one... actually I wonder if it works on JB...)

@Cerberus dunno

I also have several applications that synchronize.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

me too

A weather application, Gmail.

And I run various other applications.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What does that do?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

facebook, google plus, gmail, gallery, k9-mail, google reader..

5:43 PM

Hmm.

By the way, is k9 better than Gmail, for Gmail I mean?

(Probably not?)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

user image

It puts these customizable buttons in your notification area

so you can turn stuff on and off, mostly

Oh, yes, I believe I have come across that.

I am using the stock widget.

It doesn't have rotation, nor, what is that, flash?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

k9-mail is what I use for my gmail acct (not my work acct) and my home acct. I use it because it's more customizable than the built-in mail app and because it can support GPG (with an add-on) and because it does multiple accounts and identities at once

@Cerberus flashlight

If you install TelsaLED (one of the few flashlight apps that doesn't need, eg, your location and full internet access) then you can turn the light on and off with the toggle

GPG?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

encryption and message-signing

Matt Эллен

5:47 PM

is it like PGP?

user image

Ah, I see.

This widget also has a GPS switch.

Those waves are pretty cool, by the way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен it is PGP

Matt Эллен

cool

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus With NotificationToggle you can add/remove as many toggles as you want. I put the ones I use up there.

The last toggle on the first row shows/hides the 2nd row

The synchronization arrows?

It looks nice.

I will consider it.

I'm probably going to have Tasker turn this off whenever I'm not home (power), but it does look very nice.

I also made a Youtube video of a cat biting a Nexus my live wallpaper, there is an applications that does that.

It is as smooth and clear as any video, if you have a high-quality video.

Matt Эллен

5:55 PM

an app specifically for cats biting nexii?

It can do up to around 30 fps.

@MattЭллен No, you can use any video file.

But that seemed most appropriate.

Matt Эллен

:D

I could use a video of you posting messages here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus THAT seems like a total waste of battery power and cpu time :)

Or of northern light viewed from space.

Matt Эллен

5:56 PM

It would be cool if you were able to stream live video as your wallpaper

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен I bet you can

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, it is! But it actually doesn't use that much CPU, because it only happens when you're looking at your home screen or lock screen. So very short periods—and, let's be honest, the power used by the screen normally dwarfs everything else. Except when you're not using your phone: but then you will have enough power anyway.

@MattЭллен Hmm perhaps there is an applications...no, no, let's not go there.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus then you could have a video of me typing into chat!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, I find that sometimes when I've been running a cpu-intensive app, switching back to the home screen takes a long time (the screen partially draws, then waits, waits, waits)

I don't want to make it any slower under those circumstances

OK.

The thing is, I have yet to see anything lag on this phone, except perhaps while loading a large web page with lots of images and plugins.

And I don't notice any lag with this wallpaper.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:00 PM

well, your phone is much faster than mine

twice the cpus and twice the ram

Except that the wallpaper takes a split second to start moving when I go from sleep into lock screen or something. But my actions are not lagged at all, just the animation of the wallpaper, and only a tiny bit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and the GSIII is twice THAT

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha, yes, that might make a slight difference.

Honestly, my computer lags more than my phone (mainly in Firefox).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

uninstall FlashPlayer

your computer will be happier

I can't!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:04 PM

also, shut down your browser if you haven't used it in 40s

that's basically what your phone does

I should rather clean up my Firefox profile. That's always the culprit, I swear.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes.

Matt Эллен

delete all your history, cookies, temp files, banana cheese cake, all that nonsense

you'll feel refreshed

Yes, actually I should do that.

Haven't done it in weeks.

Done!

I haven't deleted cookies and log-ins, though, that's such a pain.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you need CookieCuller

it lets you white-list cookies as "protected", so that when you delete "all" cookies those ones stay

Oh, I need another extension!

I knew it!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Actually, that sounds interesting.

6:09 PM

I think we've been getting some pretty good questions lately.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't know if it hooks into the main "delete cookies" feature or if it just has its own, eitherway, the upshot is that you can delete all the unimportant cookies with one or two clicks

Blog - Stack Exchange: Kicking off the Summer of Love

Joel Spolsky on July 20, 2012

It’s summer here at StackHQ. Have a flower!

You’re welcome. Now on to some serious work. Can we talk about cultural anthropology for a minute? I’d like to talk about what happens when a community (online or off) gets to be about… oh, three or four years old.

Every community starts out needing to recruit members, so they tend to be very friendly to newcomers.

After a few years, an insider group of old-timers forms. They get to know each other. They know the rules. They know the history and the legends of the community. And it’s only natural to get little bit irritated when newbies show up who don’t know the rules. …

what is this garbage?!!! are they telling me to cut the snark?!

I also have an application that sets my phone at 43 % of normal brightness, because I can still confortably read a regular black-on-white page in my browser. That should save a lot of power, the screen normally using around 60 to 70 % of my battery when I'm actively using my phone (which is when it matters, when power is scarce).

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBձոգչ They're really jumped the snark with this one

@Cerberus doesn't your phone have an "auto brightness" feature?

or a slider

Yes.

But I can still read black on white perfectly at 43 % of the brightness that the lowest setting gives me.

Now.

So chances are that I will want to lower brightness all over when I need to save power.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:13 PM

oh, so you made it EVEN DIMMER

Yup.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I like mine nice and bright

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ being something to newbies? what is this word? nice? hmmmm I'll have to look it up...

But it is an overlay: automatic brightness still works, except every setting it picks is then lowered by 43 %.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not when you're at 8 % on your way to Vladivostok!

Similarly, I would turn off GPS if I had to use a map at low power. Saves heaps of power.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'll have no cell or 3g or wifi or bt connection out htere, so I'd just turn off the radios and be happy

6:15 PM

Minimalist.

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ nice adj. — 3. (archaic) fastidious; scrupulous.

4

They have cell phones in Russia, you know.

Matt Эллен

all righty then!

@MattЭллен Haha, yes!

that's it. my new resolution is to say something mean to a newbie every day this summer.

6:16 PM

I knew it meant something un-nice in the olden days, but not that!

Matt Эллен

:D

> Don’t get me wrong; it’s still a remarkably friendly place.

snorts

It is not.

Not to question askers.

Matt Эллен

it is, in many places

that's because they ask such stupid questions

It is nice to chatters, and to answerers.

Matt Эллен

6:18 PM

people are normally nice to me when I ask questions

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

on SO?

Matt Эллен

Yeah

b/c you ask good questions

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My questions almost never get answered

@JSBձոգչ I disagree: it is often "off topic" etc.

Matt Эллен

6:18 PM

Well, nice, or they ignore me

i've never been snarked at on SO

Matt Эллен

my latest question was because I'm a fool who can't bind properties but I still got good interaction

0

Q: How to get mouse wheel to change the background image

I am creating a UserControl and one behaviour I want it to have is that when the user rotates the mouse wheel over it then the background image alternates between two options. What I have so far is: <UserControl x:Class="OI.MR.UserControls.DataControls.ScrollWheel" xmlns="http:/...

c# wpf mousewheel

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm...in my experience, questions that require really specialized knowledge often don't get answered.

On SE in general, I mean.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I even put up a bounty

only one answer from someone who didn't understand the question, or didn't read it

Oh, no. Did you offer your services again?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:20 PM

@Cerberus offer my services?

I told you that wouldn't work.

You know.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

...?

Never mind, I see you have given up on the trade.

(By the way, those Jelly Bean messages are bothering me, in more ways than one. Can't I turn them off? It asks me to upgrade every hour.)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I dunno. I've never refused a firmware update.

Hey, I'm so confused. Leave it to/for/with An tony?

6:23 PM

Nor a client, hmm?

Matt Эллен

get it where you can, eh?

To?

Depends on what you mean.

Matt Эллен

like in a will

@Gigili depends on the context, why are you leaving something?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

on my phone I was excited to get it. On my tablet I was excited until after it was installed and I realized that there was a bug which caused the tablet to reboot. Thereafter I was excited for NEW updates, one of which resolved the bug.

Jinx.

6:23 PM

Do they have different meanings?

Matt Эллен

yes

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You never learn, do you?

Like a gambler who has just lost his house. "If I will just wager my wife, I'm sure I will get my house back this time!."

Matt Эллен

> I will leave this sandwich for An Tony

There are two examples in my book, "I'll leave it with/ you" and "I decided to leave it for John to deal with later"

Who's An Tony?

Matt Эллен

6:25 PM

this means that at some point you expect An to take the sandwich

@Gigili All three are possible, with different meanings or constructions. You need to know what you want to say first.

It's like asking, "is it I have one car or I have two cars?".

So you're not going to tell me the difference between the three?

Matt Эллен

no cars. I have no cars

(I'm exaggerating a tiny bit.)

It definitely is not like that.

6:27 PM

Neither do I.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili well, I started

If you will not tell us what you intend to say, then...

Provide some context.

This is taking much longer than necessary.

I intend to say nothing! It's just three different prepositions in one lesson and I want to know the difference if any.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili these mean similar things, depending on the context.

lets take "I'll leave it with you" (1)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Actually the bug in question wasn't that bad didn't impact my use of the tablet. It would just reboot randomly while sleeping. wastes battery and annoying in principle. Meanwhile, I got all the new functionality that ICS had over HC. Worth it, IMO.

6:29 PM

I see.

Matt Эллен

it can mean there is an object I will leave with you, or it can mean there is a choice I will leave with you to decide upon, or it can mean there is a problem I will leave with you to solve, and probably some other things I can't think of right now

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am still on the fence whether complete loss of privacy/security (if I can't use LBE or Droidwall or any of the other applications that do that) and some other unforseen broken applications are worth the benefits of JB.

Just finished reading an interesting article in The New Yorker. Linguists are now solving crimes! We may soon be seeing TV shows like "CSI:COCA" and "Law & Word Order".

Matt Эллен

:D

Law and Word order, it was about time.

911, is this the grammar police?

I have an emergency.

Matt Эллен

6:31 PM

@Gigili if we take "I decided to leave it for John to deal with later"(2)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus heheh "complete loss of privacy/security"... and you call ME dramatic

This criminal used a split infinitive, and now I'm afraid to let my children leave the house.

Matt Эллен

this requires more context as to what has been left with John. A choice, a problem, or an object. you can deal with all three, but it's probably a problem.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, yeah. But you have no idea how satisfying it is to be able to tell an application, "oh, so you need access to my contacts and my internet? We'll see about that, but continue".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I just don't install those apps.

Matt Эллен

6:34 PM

@Gigili so here's an example with more context: "I decided to leave the contracts with John to deal with later". This probably means that John has the contracts and that I (whoever that is) expects John to read and sign them, or perhaps post them off or whatever other things might be done with contracts.

@MattЭллен Uhum, do "don't worry, leave it with me" and "don't worry, I'm on it" mean the same thing?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Either way, whether I lose LBE or I lose those programs that want my phone ID (which is basically all programs), I lose out.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili not necessarily, they can. "Leave it with me" means it will be done in due course (which might be now) "I'm on it" means I'm doing it now

@MattЭллен Aha, got it. Thanks a lot, you're awesome.

And "leave it to me" also means "I will take care of it".

Matt Эллен

6:39 PM

@Gigili no trouble :)

@Cerberus yes, sorry I didn't make that clear

You didn't make it unclear.

Matt Эллен

I was not deliberately smearing Vaseline over the lens of my explanation

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

at least he didn't make it nuclear

BOOOOMMM

Oops.

Matt Эллен

and thus started the nuclear winter over EL&U, that plagues us to this day

6:44 PM

user image

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I already have 9 applications that want to access my contacts.

As you see, I have only permitted Dialer One; Drive is forbidden, and the rest prompt me.

I really don't want something like Skype or Swype accessing my contacts.

Those are very mainstream applications.

I need them.

What would you do?

What does "denied: 3" mean?

But this image only shows info about the "access contacts" permission.

Skype alone wants 9 permissions.

Of which I have denied half.

Why don't you want something like Skype accessing your contacts?

It only adds your Skype contacts to your contacts.

@Gigili No, wait, not true: it has prompted me three times for some permission I had set to "prompt (yellow icon), and I have denied the prompt each time.

@Gigili Who knows what Skype does with my contacts? It could upload them all into some marketing database. Then, if it should get hacked, all this information is public or in the hands of criminals.

I only allow permissions that I feel the function of the application really needs for what I want it to do.

You hair almost daily about yet another website whose usernames, e-mail address, credit cards, and/or passwords have been hacked.

Several websites have already been hacked that I had an account on.

6:53 PM

@Cerberus There's no way to make sure they won't misuse the information.

Exactly. So I don't want to give them the information unless I really have to.

What's uh-so-important about your contacts?

It's just private.

I don't need criminals to know which people I know, what their phone numbers are, etc. They might pretend to be me and contact those people to try and scam them, who knows?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Do you know why Swype wants your contacts? So that when you try to spell their name it can help you do that.

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:56 PM

And Google apps ostensibly already have your contacts since they are all part of Google, who have your contacts

That is why I considered granting permission (but I decided against it).

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know, and that is bad enough.

But that is worth it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

What I mean is that I fail to see the additional harm of allowing Google+ access to your contacts considering Google+ already has access to your contacts

Oh, there is none. That is just out of spite.

I don't want that stupid program on my phone.

Even though it would be yet another sub-database on Google's servers, somewhere...

Thinking about such things just makes me feel sick whenever I want to use an application or allow permissions.

Yeah.

« first day (617 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (4303 days later) »

Transcript for

Jul '1220

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...

phrase-requests pronunciation single-word-requests synonyms

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile