@fbueckert You really like putting words in my mouth, huh?

@Wipqozn Reminds me of some of my Minecraft farms ...

@AshleyNunn "Going academic" implies we're writing published works to expand knowledge. We're not in an academic realm, we're in a very grey legal one. The goal of pretty much every site (this one included) is both to spread knowledge and to attract viewers. If I prevent people from visiting the original author's site by providing a lengthy recitation of his material, that's plagiarism, regardless of whether I've cited his site or not.

@Decency I call it like I see it.

@AshleyNunn If you take issues with that terminology, replace 'plagiarism' with 'not fair use' and it amounts to the same thing.

Popcorn, anyone?

@MartinSojka Sure, I'd like some, thanks.

Fair warning: Today is practically like a Friday

@Sterno It's only Wednesday, dude!

For US citizens, anyway, which as we all know are the only people who matter.

@Sterno Oh, right. You Americans have your thanksgiving in November.

@Sterno If that's what helps you sleep at night, then I won't disillusion you.

@fbueckert I sleep terribly.

@Sterno Then I better REALLY not disillusion you.

However, I am firmly of the opinion that every country should celebrate every other country's holidays. We'd just have to jam all our work into those 5 holiday-free days a year.

@Sterno That, I can certainly go for.

@Sterno Make that "one day every four years, roughly".

If I took out all the internet surfing and Bridge chatting, I'm pretty sure it'd be doable

You guys should all sing me praise.

This isn't related to the current conversation at all, I just feel like having my Ego boosted.

@Wipqozn I'll boost your ego here in a minute... >:|

@fbueckert You might be better off calling it as I've explicitly outlined it multiple times, rather than strawmanning my argument with your poor eyesight.

@Wipqozn I could make turtle burgers for Thanksgiving if you'd like to feel included.

@Decency Ad hominem much? Regardless, what I see is people asking you stop just linking junk, and you flailing around looking for any excuse to not have to. THAT is what I see.

@Sterno The turtle discrimination that goes on in this chat is beyond the pale.

TURTLES ARE PEOPLE TOO

@Wipqozn Call PETA

@Wipqozn I'm a cat person. Turtles are meat.

@Sterno No. They're crazy.

@Wipqozn Technically, turtles are NOT people.

They're turtles.

@fbueckert le'gasp!

@Wipqozn Sorry to burst your delusional bubble there.

But, hey, somebody had to.

Regarding the little amusing plagiarism kerfuffle, what's acceptable or not is up to the person who created the works in the first place. Since SE is an US-based network, this means: Let the DMCA notices come and deal with them appropriately. Until then, enjoy.

@fbueckert It seems to just be wannabe power-trippers who are complaining about my "junk posts". The people whose questions I'm answering don't seem to have much of a problem.. and frankly I'm far more concerned with their opinions than those of the community at large.

I'm pretty sure The Bridge and Meta is the community at small.

@Sterno I think he meant our influence, wisdom and egos.

@MartinSojka Or mine, more specifically.

@MartinSojka Very true, but only if I felt like letting modern interpretation of the law supersede what I feel is obviously morally wrong. As someone who actually produces meaningful content, I know how annoying it can be when it's stolen and rehosted somewhere. People and websites that work hard to create content deserve what they can get.

Not to mention our splendid looks, obviously.

@MartinSojka *swoons*

@Decency As someone who also produces content (and code. Lots and lots of code), I see it as, "If what I produce helps someone else, that's what it's for".

@Decency As someone who produces content as well, I don't give a rat's ass who uses it as long as it gets used. If you copy what I did 100% and even give me credit? Yay! Not plagiarism, but exactly what I want to happen. In other words: What is and isn't plagiarism is up to the creator, not your or anyone else's sense of morals.

I don't worry about, "Oh, he used my hard work! I deserve to get paid for it!"

I don't really see the problem. Links with absolutely no context (as in, the entire answer is "http://read-this-gamefaq.htm") are generally unacceptable and turned into comments. Once you add context, such as "All of the locations for the super collectible magical ponies in MLP: Island Adventure are listed here <link>. Search for the "Magical Ponies" section" the answer is acceptable. After that it's up to individuals to decide if they want to upvote, downvote, or leave it alone

At least, that's my understanding of how it's supposed to work.

@Sterno ... or edit.

@Sterno Yes.

The only requirement is to explain what is expected to be found behind the link (i.e. "this contains a detailed explanation of how to beat that boss"). Providing excerpts of relevant information (i.e. "tl;dr: Hit the boss on the head") is helpful, but not required.

@Wipqozn Exactly. I mean, maybe @fbueckert wants to downvote an answer for not excerpting. That's fine. Maybe I want to upvote it because it linked to an awesome FAQ and told me right where to go to read it, and it easily answered my question. That's fine too!

The answers from that question support this.

@Sterno Wee! Personal choice!

Where did THAT come from!?

I'm allowed to downvote an answer just because I think someone's picture looks dumb!

(though I probably wouldn't)

@fbueckert I guess I'm just lost on why this is even a discussion. Ultimately, I'm not sure why @Decency cares what you think.

@Sterno You .. you ... you face-ist!!!

Unless you're flagging his answers for mods or something

@Sterno Neither do I, really.

re: all arguments on the internet.

Context.

@Wipqozn Which is what I said almost a week ago.

I'm done and past that.

@fbueckert You guys should just kiss and make up.

@Wipqozn Yeah, no.

@fbueckert Kiss and make-out?

I won't kiss you, and I somewhat respect you.

Oh. So this is one of those cases of of explaining downvotes and it turning into a huge argument? This is the thing I can point someone to as why it's a bad idea next time they come in here with the idea that all downvotes should require a comment?

@Wipqozn In conclusion

@Sterno Sure! I don't mind.

@Sterno Turtles do not pass?

No turtles allowed?

Turtle denied?

Those are both acceptable interpretations

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT PICTURE!!

/hyperbole

@MartinSojka I think that's one of Bowser's kids.

Heh, I just noticed I actually upvoted that answer of Decency's. Apparently I read this entire argument last week too. Yay for recycled drama!

@fbueckert Open source code is in a different place because if it's not open sourced what generally ends up happening is just code replication. Either way, someone is going to end up being helped by the existing knowledge, it's just more painless one way.

@Decency Why are you still beating the dead horse? I disagree with your interpretation. We agree to disagree. Done.

@AshleyNunn Morning!

@AshleyNunn Told you!

Where you at?

@MartinSojka It sure is up to the creator. And if the creator doesn't specify, the default assumption is "copyrighted" and you should pay respect to his/her work by directing people to it.

@AshleyNunn He redeems himself later.

@Sterno Pretty much, yeah. Sometimes comments just lead to pointless arguments that produce nothing constructive.

REALLY later.

@MartinSojka This is awesome./

@Sterno Well, fine! I'll throw my own party! With only one rule: No Sternos allowed.

Hey guys

@badp Hi padb!

since somebody is mistakenly asking me for laptop buying advice

what's a non-Mac brand that doesn't suck?

He's listed me some specs but asked for a brand

@badp Tell them to buy a mac. I hear they aren't overpriced at all!

Also, ASUS is a good brand.

@Decency Are you really sure that's the default assumption? Because I can easily show you examples from the last ten thousand years where it's clear most people were just fine copying and imitating each other's work. Starting with cave paintings.

I PATENTED THE ALPHABET. IT'S MINE. STOP COPYING MY LETTERS

@AshleyNunn There is a reason why they are like that. But I won't spoil why.

@AshleyNunn WELL THEN MAKE UP YOUR OWN LETTERS

@badp Sadly, I could see someone actually trying to patent that in the US.

@fbueckert I would be perfectly fine agreeing to disagree if you'd stop strawmanning my position. You'll note that each time I've replied to you it's because you're doing exactly that.

@AshleyNunn It's okay, the internet is a write-only place anyway

"HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY MINECRAFT MAP"

@AshleyNunn Oh, they'll try. And it will just highlight how badly broken the patent system is.

@MartinSojka Quote: "United States law in effect since March 1, 1989, has made copyright the default for newly created works. For a recent work to be in the public domain the author must specifically opt-out of copyright." I am unsure of the law in other countries.

"I MADE A FUNNY IMAGE MACRO PLEASE LOOK AT IT AND LAUGH"

@Decency So is it about law or morals now?

@Decency If you don't want me to strawman your arguments, then stop posting condescending comments. Being a jerk doesn't help you at all.

@badp ❑❡❥❱❥❂➽!

This conversation is the gift that keeps on giving.

@Sterno We've got three or four of them going right now.

To which are you referring?

I think you know!

@AshleyNunn He does.

@badp They're are always intertwined. Legally we are all supposed to abide by fair use but the amount of effort required to enforce it and the difficulty of actually doing so makes it nearly impossible, hence the grey area, hence where morality becomes the determining factor.

Oh, boy, does he.

@AshleyNunn Well, the Phoenician doesn't want us to use his letters ...

@AshleyNunn You haven't even gotten to the REALLY good parts yet.

@Decency There's very little gray area around fair use, there's just very little enforcement because the letter of the law is ridicolously tight and hard to enforce.

@badp And companies in the US are willing to sue first and ask questions later.

@fbueckert I'll stop posting condescending comments as soon as you stop valuing silly rules over actually helping people.

And most people they sue don't have the resources to fight.

@Decency Then I guess I'm going to keep strawmanning your arguments. Win-win for all!

why is chat so busy now

earlier hours went by without a single message

@fbueckert As you wish; you make yourself look far more foolish than you make me look to anyone actually paying attention.

hey @Decency

@Decency Legality doesn't even come into it. Most people produce things, both transient and material, because they like to produce. Most people copy (and mix and match and change other people's stuff) because that's how we, socially, work. "Standing on the shoulders of giants", as it were. The default assumption is, and has been since Ugh created the first stone axe and shown it to his cousin Ogh, that we copy.

@pixel Because people are arguing. You should know by now that's the bridges favourite past time.

@AshleyNunn I feel like I needed to sleep until American times

@Wipqozn me? know that? I'm not sure what you're implying!

I never argue

ever

little miss angelic, I'm never the source of any friction

@MartinSojka Of course legality comes into it, people just ignore it because it's such a rare scenario. It's the same rationale behind pirating music/movies. It's obviously illegal, but its exceedingly common and those being harmed can't do shit about it. Ditto copying content online- it happens everywhere, especially in gaming-related communities.

@Decency I disagree. Your constant disregard for site policies and your attitude toward users on this site really does nothing but make you look foolish.

@Decency You're just now ignoring tens of thousands of years of how human society works. :)

Would somebody be so kind as to fill me in on the current debate, to save me reading up? :)