Game Development

4:00 AM

It's a hassle only for newbies, which is a bad argument

On arch there's not too many repos, and all the important ones are enabled by default, except the multilib repo if you are using x64 and want to run x86 software

And then there is the unofficial Arch User Repository. If you don't find a package from the official repos, it's most likely in the AUR

Aidan Mueller

Do you know if an arch linux repo could be used on say debian

Lasse

no, Arch has so different file system structure

all the files would go in wrong places

Aidan Mueller

Or do pacman repos not work on apt-get?

I see

Lasse

No they don't

Aidan Mueller

That's were the problem

They all achieve pretty much the same thing

Lasse

4:04 AM

They just do it differently

But I would really hesitate to use cross-distro repos

Aidan Mueller

Why?

Lasse

The distros are making sure that the software in it's own repos will work with the distro

That's impossible with cross-distros

For example, if one distro uses different kernel and you have another version, and you pull a package from the other distro's repo, it wants you to upgrade the kernel, and then it pulls the new version from the other distro's repos and that has really high propability breaking everything

Aidan Mueller

I suppose that having a lot of distros based off of others helps with the issue a little though

I see

Lasse

The distros are there to provide different flavours for different purposes

I would not use Arch on a server, because it's volatile as it is a rolling release. Debian has really high stability which is a good choise for a server

Aidan Mueller

My main concern is that as a software developer, it would be a lot of work having to submit your package to 100 different repositories

Lasse

4:09 AM

On debian it's highly unlikely that an update would break something

On Arch, you will always get the latest software, but that could break things more easily

It's not your job, and you really can't do that. The distro repos are maintained by a group of maintainers who will accept packages in

Aidan Mueller

Oh

Lasse

At least that's what I believe, I am not sure :P

Aidan Mueller

I see

Lasse

On Arch you can submit packages to AUR, but never to the official repos

Aidan Mueller

Do you know if software centers are a separate thing, or if they are basically just guis for pacman or apt-get, or whatever your package manager is

Lasse

4:12 AM

software centers?

Aidan Mueller

and just call the appropriate commands

Lasse

Oh, you mean the GUI front-end for the package managers

They are usually separate software, which just uses the real package manager in the back and hides that from you

Aidan Mueller

I think on ubuntu (and possibly debian), it brings up the terminal when install with the software center

Which is kind of ugly to people who are not familiar with terminals

Lasse

I've never used those horrible GUI things :P

Aidan Mueller

I do for some things

I like because you can see reviews, search for software, etc.

But if I want to install a library, I use the command line

Lasse

4:16 AM

Yeah I guess that's good for the more inexperienced users

Aidan Mueller

From a game development perspective,

steam would pretty much eliminate the issue we just talked about

Wait

Is that the first time that somebody's mind (mine) has been changed on the internet during an argument?

Lasse

changed about what?

Aidan Mueller

The package manager thing

Lasse

No, I've been successful several times for changin people's opinions. Or at least they have agreed with me to get rid of me :D

Aidan Mueller

I guess it depends on the intelligence of the person you are arguing with

A dumb person would just say "well you're an idiot" - indicating that you won

Lasse

4:21 AM

I don't think like that, as I don't think myself really more intelligent than others

Aidan Mueller

I guess I should say open-mindedness

Lasse

I can be a real dumbass with some things

Aidan Mueller

lol

For me it's cooking

I made cereal earlier

I'm a chef

Lasse

For me it's windows

Aidan Mueller

You made a typo

It's spelled "winders"

Lasse

4:25 AM

I just can't figure out how it works, and I am able to get a BSOD just by staring a windows desktop for 10 minutes

I actually managed to get two BSODs with win8 when I installed it on my dad's laptop

I just handed it over hoping it would work

Aidan Mueller

At least 7 is better than 8.

Which is weird because 7 < 8

Lasse

7 has better user interface

the win8 and 8.1 ui is horrible

Aidan Mueller

That's what I mean

Lasse

All the good things that were in win7 have been removed and replaced with some nonsense

I can't push win key and type in a name of a program and hit enter any more

Aidan Mueller

Someone once said that it seems like every other version sucks

Lasse

4:29 AM

I don't see how they could improve when they have taken the direction like that with win8

They need to go backwards to make it happen

And that's something I don't believe will happen

Aidan Mueller

I think that if you just start typing on the start screen it let's you search

Lasse

But let's not just mock win8, let's mock Ubuntu. The unity desktop is even more horrible than win8

Aidan Mueller

I would say that winders is shattered

I think unity isn't too bad. I mean I think it's better than windows 8

But it is not perfect

Lasse

I'm looking forward for the future of steam. It looks so exciting. Linux might get a lot more users because of that, and Linux would then become mainstream.

Aidan Mueller

why do so many people hate it though? (I have my reasons, just curious why you hate it)

By it I mean unity

Lasse

4:32 AM

I hate it because it's always on my way when I want to do something. If I use desktop, I want clickable icons, not a search bar

If it worked like win7 start menu, it would be better, but no

Also, I don't like the asthetics

Aidan Mueller

So you are saying that you like to find things with the category system?

Lasse

And it's really horribly slow to load and use, I prefer XFCE or some tiling WM

Aidan Mueller

yeah

I am not going to lie, winders 7 has a pretty nice design

Lasse

You mean UI design

Aidan Mueller

Yes

Some things in winders 7 don't make any sense at all though

Grey

4:35 AM

grey is back

Aidan Mueller

for example

Hi grey

If you want to change brightness, you go to appearance and personalization

Lasse

Well, tbh on my Arch changing the screen brightness is buggy :P

But that's only because the support for my laptop is a bit poor

I have to close the lid and let it go sleep mode, and then wake it up to see the changed brightness

Grey

indiegamepickuplines.tumblr.com

Aidan Mueller

I just mean that putting it in "personalization" makes no sense

Grey

This is a thing on twitter by the way #indiegamepickuplines

Aidan Mueller

4:42 AM

LOL

Funny

I am actually good at qwop though

Grey

ugh LA Game Space is UGH. They aren't finished yet and there hasn't been a peep from them about construction.

Aidan Mueller

@Lasse I'm looking for a desktop environment that looks different than windows (I want to be different), has a dock feature similar to ubuntu but maybe more compact, is very customizable and is in general just an efficient design. Does anything come to mind?

Lasse

XFCE

that's what I am using

Aidan Mueller

I'll check it out

anyone else using dvorak?

Lasse

you're using dvorak?

Aidan Mueller

4:47 AM

Getting used to it

It makes sense

Grey

Whats dvorak

keyboard?

Lasse

it's a keyboard layout different to qwerty

Aidan Mueller

I think that I'm going to switch to programmer dvorak

Lasse

@AidanMueller fyi: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27198869/Screenshots/…

Aidan Mueller

I will show you what it looks like

',.pyfgcrl

aoeuidhtns

;qjkxbmwvz

Grey

4:48 AM

ah

It would take me a while to get used to

Aidan Mueller

Much faster

Grey

QWERTY 5 ever

I bet

I'm actually quite fast on QWERTY

Lasse

why not 3 ever

Aidan Mueller

It's not just about speed

Grey

i have rsi though, and based on the wiki that layout can reduce injury

Aidan Mueller

4:49 AM

@Grey RSI 5 ever

Grey

@Lasse I am jealous of your setup

@Aidan It's practically gone for me :p

had it for 6 months

Aidan Mueller

That's why I am switching (in addition to speed)

Grey

@Aidan YOU HAVE LE RSI

Aidan Mueller

I actually wrote that before I read that you have rsi

Grey

Yes

Yes you did

I had mine in my trap area

It OCCASIONALLY acts up

But I've fixed my posture, and I can live with it now

LA GAME SPACE 2014

Aidan Mueller

4:53 AM

I am playing qwop because of you

Lasse

@Grey why? it's not that special

Aidan Mueller

@Lasse is it creepy that I am looking at your desktop tabs?

Lasse

They're not all there, I have another browser window

I can take a shot of them if you feel like lurking

Aidan Mueller

That's ok

Grey

@Lasse Your monitor is big. Two monitors

or one?

Lasse

4:56 AM

two 24"

1920x1200

Aidan Mueller

new monitor vIneH

Lasse

There's my tabs from the other browser window

Aidan Mueller

I thought I had a lot of tabs

Grey

@Lasse no lag

?

Lasse

the first four are pinned

nope

I've got i7 with 10gigs of ram

Grey

4:59 AM

Holy.

Dude.

WOW.

Lasse

I'm using 5.5 gigs now

Aidan Mueller

Well I have over 9000!

Grey

My secret desire: Get another monitor and code a custom interface

Aidan Mueller

Actually I have 6

Grey

control it via a voice command and a remote

with artificial intelligence

CALL IT SOMETHING CLEVER.

Aidan Mueller

5:00 AM

I was considering making my own interface

Grey

^

Lasse

I've been working on my own GUI lib on opengl

It's not good. It's horrible

Grey

@Lasse screeeeeeeeeeeeeens

Lasse

I should rewrite it from scratch

Grey

Lasse

5:01 AM

that's early version

and it hasn't changed much, I've not written any new renderers for the controls

Aidan Mueller

I am working on a design

For a DE

Lasse

here's a bit newer version with dockable panels

Grey

I'd buy a custom monitor just to run a monitor on it 24/7 that acted like an OS

Lasse

And after I got the GUI to that point, I found out how great game tekkit is

And there went 3 weeks with no progress

Aidan Mueller

I was working on a binary adder in redstone

I meant computer

No

ALU

Grey

5:07 AM

h8 minecraft

Aidan Mueller

I wanted to make a full computer eventually

Why?

Lasse

And currently I am stuck with a problem where for some reason if I use vertex attrib modifying commands on some other vbo, it makes drawing another vbo to crash

Aidan Mueller

My desktop environment

Design

(So far)

Lasse

I have bad graphical design skills, but I'd like to learn to do stuff like that. It's just too much of hassle for me

Aidan Mueller

I drew the background

...with a camera

Lasse

5:12 AM

I drew that penguin

when I had high fever some years ago

Aidan Mueller

I was knocked out of ludumdare for 2 days with the flu and I still finished

Lasse

I also drew that texture: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27198869/Screenshots/…

Aidan Mueller

Granted that the game sucked

Pieces of the japanese flag walking around with white sticks?

Lasse

It's just something I can see the orientation from

Aidan Mueller

►

Lasse

5:18 AM

It's amazing how people are able to bend like that

Grey

^

contortists

argh. they make my skin crawl sometimes

Aidan Mueller

I actually can "run" in qwop

Grey

►

lmao

Aidan Mueller

post the share link

So it's clickable

And so I get a preview

Lasse

Damn my feet are cold, even if I got wool socks

it's -18 C outside

Aidan Mueller

5:26 AM

BRB

Grey

►

THIS IS so cool

Lasse

wtf there are code templates for everything useless in monodevelop, but not for class methods

Grey

@Lasse lol

Lasse

I'm gonna make my own then

I like how I can just type in "prop" and hit tab and it fills a property for me and I just type in the type and name

"meth". Crystal clear.

Aidan Mueller

@Grey Laughed at that first game

Grey

5:37 AM

lol hooters

Never been there, never will.

Aidan Mueller

That was just ridiculous

I have no intention either

Especially since I am only 14

Grey

LOL.

@Aidan Same. I r 14 as well. Hooters is for pervs

Aidan Mueller

I know

ping

Anyone still here?

Y'all like my color scheme?

Lasse

5:54 AM

I don't like the green

but it's just my preference

Aidan Mueller

I chose it because it stands out

I think it looks nice

Matt D

i must be the only person in the universe who likes the standard colour set

Lasse

On my screen it is too bright, a bit darker would be nice

Matt D

i like bright

shrug

Aidan Mueller

Would you like a tip for picking colors?

Lasse

5:55 AM

@MattD do you mean white background etc?

Matt D

yes

long standing habbit.

Aidan Mueller

I use black on white for Java

Lasse

my eyes hurt if I have to use bright background too long

Aidan Mueller

White on black for C++

Matt D

see when i started programming, I was using dos edit, remember that? with the blue background? and white text?

Lasse

5:56 AM

yeah I've used it too

QBasic 4ever

Matt D

well thats all we had.

and a cmd line compiler

Aidan Mueller

Oh!

Matt D

in the days before visual studio 6

Lasse

I've also used some borland dos editor for c++

Matt D

which i still have a copy of somewhere

Lasse

5:57 AM

it was similar to the dos EDIT

a bit more features

Matt D

anyway. you used to know it was time to throw the towel in because the white text had disappeared behind a swathe of unfocused blue

and then i got visual studio 6

even though that was broken as hell

but at least it had a visual debugger

Aidan Mueller

Here is how I picked the colors: Go to ColorPicker.com, input a color, and click a generate color scheme button and BAM you have colors that work well with each other. Great for creating game art too.

Matt D

yaeh

there's some screen thing that generates slightly less artificially bright colours too

i dont remember where it is though

Lasse

meh, opengl does not even give me any errors and it still crashes when I try to draw this vbo

Matt D

have you debugged it

Lasse

6:00 AM

it does not crash if I don't fiddle with another vbo's vertex attribute arrays

I have no idea how to debug this any further

Matt D

what IDE are you using?

monodevelop

linux?

yeah

does it compile under windows?

Aidan Mueller

6:01 AM

This computer BSODs when you watch videos on Facebook. Thanks Winders!

Lasse

I think so yes, it's platform independant

Matt D

well, id fire it up in visual studio

and id grab gldebugger

user4704

I have noticed what I think is a bug in OS 10.9.

Aidan Mueller

What?

Josh?

user4704

I thought it was an Xcode bug with the file open dialog, but I can reproduce it in other applications.

Aidan Mueller

6:03 AM

You're using a Mac?

user4704

Don't be so naive.

Matt D

I use a mac at home too

user4704

Attempting to view any of the immediate subfolders of ~ results in a noticeable delay in display of the contents.

Matt D

vmware fusion ftw :)

interesting

user4704

Along with a busy spinner in the bottom left.

Matt D

6:03 AM

wonder what it's doing

Aidan Mueller

Wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just asking.

user4704

Huh, and apparently I'm not the only one: forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1688142

user4704

Me too. It's a v2 rMBP, so it has an SSD and everything.

Matt D

hmmmm... HMMMM.... ~ is the alias for the home directory right?

Lasse

right

Matt D

6:05 AM

ill need to upgrade my MBP when i move

i wonder if it's doing some kind of crazy authentication / profile setting checking or something

Aidan Mueller

I used to hate Mac. But I have changed my mind a bit

Matt D

eventually you'll see things as tools, and not as things you define your reality by. and you'll end up hating a hell of a lot less things

Lasse

I don't hate Macs. I hate Apple, and therefore boycott and mock Macs.

user4704

Dunno. There's definitely a disk IO spike that correlates.

user4704

It's writes, oddly enough.

Matt D

6:07 AM

well that is strange

Aidan Mueller

I do hate Apple though. Their products are good, but they are, well, I don't want to go to bed angry.

Matt D

i dont hate apple, i dont hate microsoft. i dont hate windows, i dont hate osx. they're either companies, or tools to do things

hate, now I hate people who cut in line at the supermarket

but software? I've got a job to do, and ill use whatever I need to do to get the job done

user4704

Yeah, I feel like it's pointless to "hate" diffuse organizations. Disagree with the policies or direction of, sure, but that's different.

user4704

Speaking of which.

user4704

Google buying Nest? I'm really curious what for.

Matt D

6:09 AM

ive never even heard of nest

this either makes me the most hipster hipster, or completly out of the loop

Lasse

What's Nest?

Aidan Mueller

Ok

I hate their policies

Apple with 171 lawsuits in last 5 years

Matt D

whoever they are, google paid 3.4 billion or something

so someone's opening some champagne right now

Lasse

nest.com

Matt D

and browsing the lamborghini website

user4704

6:10 AM

Lawsuits are an artifact of the broken patent system, I think a better place to lay that blame is the government.

Aidan Mueller

Nest is a company that makes tempurature control things right?

user4704

Nest makes a thermostat control and a smoke detector. With corresponding not-so-amazing iOS apps.

Matt D

I imagine when you have eleventy billion shipping containers with racks of equipment in them, having some thermostatic control applications would be pretty useful

Aidan Mueller

@JoshPetrie yeah, I have begun to dislike the patent system

Lasse

That really sounds something google would have got for a lot less money

Nest must have something really value

user4704

6:12 AM

Google paid just a billion or so shy of half what Microsoft paid for Nokia.

Matt D

yeah

thats a good way to put it. thing is nokia were already on the decline.

user4704

That's a lot of money for a smoke alarm and a thermostat though.

Matt D

I wonder how much EA would cost

but yes. i totally agree. I wonder what they were working on

user4704

Nokia's got a lot of things Microsoft could use. Like they make hardware that isn't horrid.

Matt D

also patents

user4704

6:13 AM

Yes.

Matt D

lots of patents

user4704

Patents were a guess for Nest, actually, but I didn't bother looking at what they have.

Lasse

Nokia's software has always been horrible, since the first smartphones

Aidan Mueller

Maybe they want to make people hot so that they use the google search engine to solve the problem with their nest

Matt D

@JoshPetrie google are on a bit of a spree at the moment.

buying a lot of robotics companies too

Aidan Mueller

6:13 AM

Yeah that's not it

user4704

So I killed some non responsive Safari QTKit processes and now I can't reproduce the delay.

user4704

But I suspect this is a red herring.

user4704

And I will investigate further later, because I'd rather be sleeping.

Matt D

:D

yeah its LATE where you are man

hope the weathers not as amazingly crap as it has been

ok not that late

i thought it was like 3am or something

user4704

Nah.

Grey

6:19 AM

Learning about regular expressions for Legrande.

Lasse

Will Nest customer data be shared with Google?
Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change.

Matt D

ok, back to work for me. got lots to do. have fun folks :)

Lasse

I laughed

Grey

@MattD r progrmming?

Matt D

yes, im at work

just taking a quick break

back into it now, will be a late night

Grey

6:39 AM