The Nineteenth Byte

DLosc

00:01

@user Reminds me of

lyxal

00:41

It's coming.

hyper-neutrino

just got the notification

finally, now I can sleep well at night

lyxal

@GingerIndustries @cairdcoinheringaahing @RadvylfPrograms @DLosc @user and everyone else interested:

5 minutes and 43 seconds of loud Lyxal noises.

►

9

user

01:16

Lol you actually did it

lyxal

You didn't think I was going to?

DLosc

01:46

Jan 3 at 4:43, by user

I would like to torture my parents tomorrow >:)

I found just the video for you... X^D

Also @lyxal bold move to include copyrighted material... whatever will you do if you get demonetized? :P

lyxal

@DLosc jokes on you - it got claimed immediately

DLosc

Not surprising

Komali

Hi; just curious if I can submit to [kolmogorov-complexity] with this thing I’ve been making github.com/PrinceKomali/IntegerForest

it’s not Turing complete but it prints strings in a weird way; don’t know how it fits in with current regulations

DialFrost

ello

can anyone check my chalenges

in sandbox thx

DLosc

02:15

@Komali As long as the interpreter on GitHub works, you're good. Interesting language!

Komali

02:31

Thanks! Maybe I’ll do the 900th hello world!

Or am I too late….

emanresu A

02:58

TIL typescript's cool

Radvylf Programs

Gaze in horror at my chaotic neutral PvZ strat

Symmetry is for the weak

And starfruit + spikerock is incredibly OP

PyGamer0

03:49

uhh

VyxalBot just starred flax .....

@lyxal was that you, or did the bot do it by tself?

also vim-apl has more stars than flax lol

hyper-neutrino

the bot doesn't have any abilities on github, really

other than posting issues and such. and receiving webhook events

emanresu A

~~make it sentient~~

lyxal

@PyGamer0 I do a little trolling

It's funny - I'm sitting on a bus right now, and no one would have any idea that there exists a video of me screaming into my phone for 5 minutes and 43 seconds

Somehow, it almost gives me a sense of being better than everyone else on this bus.

Radvylf Programs

You are

lyxal

I doubt they've released that much loud noise themselves

Radvylf Programs

04:02

Amount of loud noise recorded by a smartphone is an unambiguous measure of human achievement

lyxal

Obviously

Why else would 15 people star a petition for me to do such an otherwise questionable thing

PyGamer0

lol

lyxal

04:39

Being 20 minutes early to a lecture got me feeling like big yeets yo

CMQ: How to pass 20 minutes without looking like an idiot

emanresu A

Stare at your phone

lyxal

Already doing that

Radvylf Programs

Listen to caramelldansen 5.7 times

lyxal

If I was going to go down the music route, I'd have just listened to some of the worst beats ever created #23

But I'm bored of music too

Radvylf Programs

Lukewarm take: Homeschooling is absolutely idiotic and should be illegal

lyxal

04:45

Why is it idiotic?

Radvylf Programs

(All of this from a US perspective but) parents absolutely are not qualified to teach every subject, even if they had the best interests in mind. From what I've heard and experienced, Homeschooling is typically chosen by parents so they can indoctrinate their children with religious, anti-science, anti-government, racist, politically polarized, or otherwise biased information.

And in the US, there is essentially zero oversight for homeschooled students. There's often not even a way to verify the students are learning anything at all, let alone whether or not what they're being taught is accurate

School also provides exposure to differing viewpoints and cultures, which even ignoring the typical demographics and viewpoints of parents who choose homeschooling, is very important and not going to be provided by homeschooling

Radvylf Programs

05:02

And sure, sometimes people are homeschooled by competent parents who just want to provide the best education possible for their children. But I still think that's problematic. It's only really viable for those who can afford to have one parent stay home 24/7 (and of course, those who have two parents in the first place), so it has the same segregation-by-another-name effect as private schools.

And I'm not saying that to imply that parents who choose homeschooling are opting into that basically-segregation, since I don't think that's necessarily true. It's more that instead of providing funding and regulation necessary to make public schools better, federal and state governments just give people options...options which can only be exercised by part of the population.

emanresu A

There are those kids who can't physically go to school

Radvylf Programs

E.g., the majority of school funding comes from local property taxes, rather than being equitably distributed across the state/country. Or, giving students the ability to choose which school they go to, which leads to a snowball effect where different demographic groups are associated with different schools.

@emanresuA That's a special case though.

And there can still be oversight required rather than just giving parents free rein

It'd still be home schooling, but not Homeschooling

DialFrost

can anyone check my sandbox posts

thx

most of them have got downvotes

and no comments

especially this one codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

which is new

Radvylf Programs

05:19

These seem to almost all be plagiarised

codingame.com/training/hard/a-game-of-go

You can't just copy someone else's challenge

It's fine to take the concept of the challenge, but you've taken entire paragraphs, the structures of the challenges' bodies, and in some cases it seems like just a direct copy-paste.

Unrelated String

05:32

@lyxal i totally forgot about those holy shit

a friend showed me a few a couple months ago but we were somehow hanging out in person and my memory is completely offloaded into discord message history

emanresu A

06:13

what

lyxal

06:39

> APL provides many powerful operators (and a
large number of new symbols), allowing complex
computations to be written in a compact program but at the cost of poor readability

Looks like my lecturer is a heathen

Unrelated String

😔

reminds me i'm in a machine learning class this semester and every time the professor makes a point of calling the iverson bracket the "indicator function" i die a bit inside

lyxal

Yikes

Unrelated String

...also reminds me for some reason he notates the kronecker delta as y

forget what name he uses for it but it's really disorienting to see it written as y

pxeger

@NewPosts @WheatWizard Why did you delete this? Because people kept answering invalidly?

Also I just realised my answer is invalid for another reason: if the forbidden word is 1 2, and the RNG generates 1 1 2 2, then it will remove the inner 1 2 but end up with 1 2 from the outer bits, which is still forbidden

Unrelated String

f

pxeger

06:49

(actually there were only 2 answers, so probably not because people kept answering invalidly)

lyxal

07:05

Another bus full of nerds who haven't ever released a 5 minute screaming video

The superiority is real

graffe

07:46

CMQ given a text file, how can you compute the average line length from the bash command line? (Obviously the more golfed the better)

emanresu A

@lyxal Imagine what he'd think of Vyxal

lyxal

I know right

graffe

Maybe should have been CMC ?

lyxal

@emanresuA here were my notes on another topic:

emanresu A

At least Vyxal has #2

lyxal

07:54

Uh...

About that...

emanresu A

We have a few duplicate ops and )}]; but aside from that, there's pretty much one thing for everything.

lyxal

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/issues/516

We have a few more

pxeger

@graffe Zsh, 27 bytes: set `wc -ml`;<<<$[$2/$1.-1]

should work in Bash too, if you change <<< to echo

graffe

@pxeger wow I don’t know zshl. It doesn’t look like bash but maybe it would work?

emanresu A

@graffe cat f > vyxal vLṁ ea

Requires Vyxal installed

(Untested)

pxeger

07:58

@graffe if you want input from a file, change wc -ml to wc -ml<my_file

graffe

@pxeger your tio has bash but execute never terminates it seems

pxeger

@graffe can't reproduce

graffe

What does <<< do?

pxeger

print

but it only works in zsh, not bash

it's 2 bytes shorter than echo

graffe

Does execute work for you?

pxeger

08:02

@pxeger actually, this doesn't work in Bash, because it doesn't have floating-point arithmetic

@graffe yes, works fine

try a hello world in Bash?

PyGamer0

@lyxal what?! APL is very readable.

emanresu A

Everything is readable to those who understand i

PyGamer0

exactly

emanresu A

Except maybe Malbolge

PyGamer0

lmao

pxeger

08:05

Why do people pretend that APL is readable (other than because they're paid to)? It objectively is not very readable to people who don't know APL, whereas Python looks a lot more like pseudocode and a lot more like English, so it is objectively more readable even to those who don't know Python

PyGamer0

@pxeger looks at people who dont know english

graffe

@pxeger everyone agrees but for some people it’s just fun to code in APL

pxeger

I'm not gonna deny that it's fun lol

PyGamer0

TMN is not readable to people who dont know math.

emanresu A

See this conversation

Sep 1 '21 at 20:29, by user

caird would say Jelly is quite readable, DLosc would say Pip is readable, Leo would say Husk is readable, even though they're all unreadable to people like me

PyGamer0

08:10

TMN is also inconsistent at times

sin²(x) vs sin⁻¹(x)

StackMeterPlus

09:10

@PyGamer0 what's TMN

PyGamer0

traditional math notation

StackMeterPlus

09:37

@PyGamer0 that seems consistent

emanresu A

TIL Typescript and <script type=module> do not go well together

PyGamer0

@StackMeterPlus how? in some places i see sin⁻¹(x) being used for csc(x) but some places its being used for asin(x)

emanresu A

And there's arsin, arcsin and sin't

PyGamer0

09:54

it makes me go arrr*sigh*

Adám

@StackMeterPlus sin²(x) means (sin x)² while sin⁻¹(x) means asin x.

So what does sinⁿ(x) mean‽

emanresu A

(At least how my maths class does it) (sin x)^n for positive n

Exactly how I feel

emanresu A

10:42

@DLosc Congrats on 30k!

4

o/o/

PyGamer0

10:54

/\\

PyGamer0

11:14

Wheat Wizard

@pxeger I just wanted to put a freeze on it and come back to it later when have time to handle it.

StackMeterPlus

@Adám what is an Asin

PyGamer0

arcsin

inverse of sin

StackMeterPlus

11:33

@PyGamer0 i think it should be asin only that equals sin^-1

Adám

@StackMeterPlus Would sin⁻²(x) be (arcsin x)² then?

StackMeterPlus

@Adám yes

sin^-2 = (sin^-1)^2

Adám

OK, but you also agree that f²(x) is f(f(x))?

StackMeterPlus

yes

PyGamer0

then .... then ...

Adám

11:42

How about if f(x)=sin x? What is f²(x) now? (sin x)² or sin sin x?

StackMeterPlus

@Adám i'm not sure

Adám

;-)

lyxal

and there we have it

the beauty of APL

my goodness, this site has really influenced me. I now take objections against APL as personal attacks

what has my life come to?

StackMeterPlus

we should do the code golf bignum bakeoff
1024 bytes to make the biggest number possible

no extra restricions

Wheat Wizard

12:15

@pxeger Small little python scripts looks readable. But that python is particularly readable overall I think is a bit of a myth extrapolating from that. Python sort of falls apart quite a bit under the burden of it's syntax as you get into bigger more complicated stuff. Production python looks nothing like pseudo-code and often other languages that are considered "less-readable" than Python are more readable at scale.

Of course APL more closely resembles the output of /dev/urandom than a computer program at any scale, so ...

StackMeterPlus

@WheatWizard what does /dev/urandom do

ophact

@StackMeterPlus console.log(1/0) unbeatable solution

lyxal

@ophact just print "inf" - no math required

StackMeterPlus

@ophact i am going to have to make a few edits to my idea

ophact

Yes, I'd recommend that

Wheat Wizard

12:22

@StackMeterPlus It outputs a stream of random bytes.

user

@WheatWizard is any language readable at scale?

Whenever I peek st the code for a big project, i am immediately confused, even if it’s java or Scala

Wheat Wizard

I think languages can be more or less readable at scale. It really is a relative measure.

lyxal

Readability is subjective really

Wheat Wizard

I think for example that golang is a lot more readable at scale than Python is.

lyxal

To a random stranger, ₁ƛ₍₃₅kF½*∑∴ looks like someone managed to press random keys on the unicode part of their keyboard

but to others, it makes complete sense

and to others, it kind of makes sense, but not fully

Wheat Wizard

12:28

When I'm talking about readablity I'm really talking about "How easily could a stranger to the language, but familiar with the concept of algoritms and code understand what this means?"

Obviously if you are immersed in a particular language for long enough all the quirks are smoothed over to you.

StackMeterPlus

@user no

lyxal

@WheatWizard that's what I meant by "to others, it kind of makes sense, but not fully"

that's the category of people who know code, and could maybe guess, but wouldn't get it right

Wheat Wizard

I have no idea how anyone that hasn't worked with whatever that is could ever have any idea what that means.

I mean obviously this is not objective, but I think this is a terrible example.

lyxal

In your opinion, does readability depend on context?

Wheat Wizard

What do you mean?

lyxal

12:31

Does knowing what something is solving make it any more readable than just seeing code?

Wheat Wizard

I don't think that really matters.

lyxal

because knowing that ₁ƛ₍₃₅kF½*∑∴ is FizzBuzz means you can look for the parts where 100 is referenced, where divisibility checks happen and where things are applied to each item

but if you didn't know that, you'd have no clue what it was

Wheat Wizard

I feel like you are getting really caught up in the specifics of things.

lyxal

maybe it's too late for me to be discussing things like this

I might head out for the night

early morning tomorrow anyway

o/

Wheat Wizard

And no knowing that is fizzbuzz does absolutely nothing to help me. I think you are really overestimating how readable whatever that is.

StackMeterPlus

12:35

@lyxal is kF 100

lyxal

no

StackMeterPlus

@lyxal how many characters are in the right place

ophact

Is ƛ 100?

lyxal

also no

@StackMeterPlus what do you mean by that?

StackMeterPlus

@lyxal are k and/or F in the correct answer for "what part of ₁ƛ₍₃₅kF½*∑∴ makes 100"

lyxal

12:38

no

StackMeterPlus

ok

lyxal

100 ɾ ƛ
    n 3 Ḋ [
        n 5 Ḋ [ `FizzBuzz` | `Fizz` ] |
        n 5 Ḋ [ `Buzz` | n ]
    ]
; ⁋

Try on that snippet instead

the original snippet is the result of extensive golfing, so it probably wasn't the best example

StackMeterPlus

@lyxal just a thought: is it the 100 that makes the 100 in that snippet

lyxal

yes

(credits to hyper for the snippet btw)

PyGamer0

55

Q: What are the worst notations, in your opinion?

With which notation do you feel uncomfortable?

StackMeterPlus

13:06

i have new rules to stop this:
*updated rules to the BigNumBakeoff+*
must be deterministic (no x += random(randint(1, 100000) while random.random()
must print a number, in any base (or a string representation of such) - if in a confusing base, then 1) it must be able to represent ANY number, and 2) you must explain how to convert it back into base 10 (+1 brownie point for a program that does this)
must terminate provably in finite time (aka no x += 1 ad infinitum)
output must be finite (no infs or nans)

there we go: loopholes closed

Ginger Industries

hllello

StackMeterPlus

@GingerIndustries can i put this in r/ihadastroke

Ginger Industries

*hallollw

*hlllell

*heloap

*hlol

StackMeterPlus

@GingerIndustries almost

Ginger Industries

*greeting word

:/

hello reddit

please censor my username

StackMeterPlus

13:12

k

Ginger Industries

@lyxal HALLELUJAH IT FINALLY HAPPENED

2

wooo

StackMeterPlus

i will attach some links to my accounts on other programs when i hit 1K 111 rep

Ginger Industries

@lyxal I can help you with that, one sec

9 hours ago, by Radvylf Programs

Listen to caramelldansen 5.7 times

19 hours ago, by Ginger Industries

Aug 22 '21 at 19:58, by user

@pxeger I have infinitely many legs, for I am God

19 hours ago, by user

What is a head? Do legs cease to exist when you do crunches?

Feb 15 at 13:33, by Ginger Industries

how big is a loaf of bread

Feb 15 at 13:54, by PyGamer0

presenting a diagram of an onion:

Feb 15 at 14:15, by ophact

this long and unproductive discussion has given me the idea for a code-golf challenge.

Feb 7 at 19:19, by ta Radvylf srik su shilani

What's your order? 37mm machine gun? Life sized gummy bear? Non-rechargeable iPhone battery?

Feb 7 at 19:28, by Ginger Industries

I am not ordering heavy weaponry through UPS redwolf

Jan 19 at 17:54, by Ginger Industries

@mathcat good thing I came prepared with an AntiAntiAntiAntiAntiRickroll

I'm going to stop now.

ping me if you want more

Fun fact: If you write 0 to /dev/urandom it reverses entropy

PyGamer0

petition for @GingerIndustries to make a youtube video of @GingerIndustries screaming for 10 minutes :P

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 no voice reveal sorry

Today's Unicode Character of the Day is Ł.

PyGamer0

13:28

Łøł

Ginger Industries

:█

StackMeterPlus

13:46

rocket league sideswipe is broken

chunes

any J experts in here?

PyGamer0

@chunes i dont think so, probably look in apl.chat

Ginger Industries

CMQ: What's the syntax for spoilers in SE posts?

nvm figured it out

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Page Selector I'm making a page selector for my super cool terminal-based blog program. In order for it to fit correctly into the design, it has to have some constraints. The page selector can only display a certain number of characters at a time due to the constraints of the UI system. If there ...

caird coinheringaahing

14:14

@lyxal I genuinely don't know why I watched all 5 minutes, 43 seconds of this, but this is the greatest thing I've ever seen :P

Also, I now very much just want a video of you reading off starred TNB quotes for like an hour :P

5

StackMeterPlus

14:26

@PyGamer0 i found this

Radvylf Programs

@GingerIndustries Due to the way that /dev/urandom works, typically seeded by temperature and user inputs, it'll bring the room the computer is in down to absolute zero and electrocute anyone who touches the keyboard.

There's actually a prototype power plant in Germany that uses a /dev/zero > /dev/urandom laptop to generate 16 GW of power, by bolting wires to a corpse and throwing it on the laptop over and over again

StackMeterPlus

@GingerIndustries how do i run /dev/urandom

Radvylf Programs

14:43

> The top 10 percent of a high school class shall not contain more than 10 percent of the total class size.

Hmm yes this floor here is made out of floor

DLosc

@emanresuA Thanks! This is actually my second time above 30k--I got there briefly at the beginning of this month before awarding a bunch of tinylisp bounties. I expect I'll reach 30k a third time after awarding my Best of 2021 bounties. :D

3

mathcat

@lyxal wohoo

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think I know your intention

DLosc

@PyGamer0 I initially read this as "What are the worst nations, in your opinion?" ಠ_ಠ

PyGamer0

@DLosc lmao

StackMeterPlus

@RadvylfPrograms lmao

PyGamer0

14:48

@RadvylfPrograms lmao

Radvylf Programs

user's opinion of vyxal:

Aug 17 '21 at 12:36, by user

ass

PyGamer0

@mathcat lmao

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc Monaco. They know what they did :P

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms we are quoting that a lot now

mathcat

> Vyxal is [...]ass

- user

PyGamer0

14:49

were was that script which showed the mosted quoted tnb messages?

Radvylf Programs

In my bash history

StackMeterPlus

@mathcat greatest use of square brackets since lists

Ginger Industries

> # using the python keyword global is bad practice.

>:(

you can't tell me what to do

StackMeterPlus

@GingerIndustries qué

mathcat

@GingerIndustries your bad

ass

Ginger Industries

14:50

23 secs ago, by mathcat

ass

you FOOL

mathcat

:face_palm:

Radvylf Programs

Okay "ass" is my new favorite chat search

mathcat

I forgot that

Ginger Industries

YOU FOOL

Radvylf Programs

> mathcat, if you could have anything in the world, what would it be?

3 mins ago, by mathcat

ass

mathcat

14:53

no

When you try to make a joke but it backfires on you.

Radvylf Programs

now your also bad
ass

PyGamer0

lmao

flax is bad

DLosc

yep :P

PyGamer0

oh ....

DLosc

lol gottem

PyGamer0

14:58

lol gottem

(heheheheh)

DLosc

(To be clear, I am 100% joking. I have nothing against flax. :P)

PyGamer0

@DLosc you are not JoKing, you are DLosc!

DLosc

(Yes, I know, I'm not JoKing)

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