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1:10 AM
Wouldn't you know it... Actually talking to people can sometimes be productive: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367091/…
@apaul still generates quite some drama
But some meaningful and constructive discussion in posts from people I suspected
I said "sometimes" ;)
Q: What should the user community do about incivility on Stack Overflow?

Robert HarveyIncivility on Stack Overflow is not a new topic. But apparently it's been given new life. So here's your chance to sound off on what we, as a community, can do about it. But first, some of my own observations and opinions. As a diamond moderator, I have cleared thousands of flags on Stack Ove...

Good stuff, for example
I hate how a chance to addressing the root problem got lost in debates of finding out who's on which side
95 percent of the discussion was polluted with emotions, whose net result would just be an "us vs. them" stance for people on all sides involved
I'm saying because that's how I feel, and I didn't even engage
Helping users who post crap not post crap can help the situation greatly, and the possible solutions are much more quantifiable and workable than trying to help regulars not have bad days and post snarky comments
SO is not sexist or racist. Okay, that's controversial. But what we all agree on is learning the ropes of how to ask is a very tough curve and people usually just don't bother climbing.
There's lots of potential to work on here. The only reason work hasn't been done is procrastination.
And we already have some ideas how. I've seen loads of meta.
2:04 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Either Stack Overflow is the first group of humans in recorded history to have solved all the issues of race and gender, or... There's room for improvement.
Discrimination and bigotry aren't just a Stack Overflow problem, or a Stack Exchange problem, they're human problems. Where ever you have large groups of humans together, you're going to have to deal with these problems sooner or later... Or not.
We can choose to react, or not.
We can only react - and how we react defines us.
2:20 AM
Q: How to convince my girlfriend to be open about the discussion of political topics

Rumble downMy girlfriend and I have been together for about 5 months. She tends to be more left leaning in her beliefs and I tend to be more centered. Every now and then she'll ask me something related to something she agrees with politically (often to do with feminism/race etc), and I would end up disagr...

2:51 AM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Is it plural of "thanks"? :P
3:29 AM
Q: How to politely tell a friend that I only want her to hang out?

VahnI have a crush on my collegue friend and want to take her out to cinemas or other places. When I ask her out, she always tell me if her friend could go along with her. I know it's not a date just hang out together. But, I really only want the two of us. How do I politely tell her about it?

3:45 AM
It sounds like you want to ask them on a date. What's preventing you from just asking her out? — sphennings 1 min ago
#13889 sphennings (5257 rep) | Q: How to politely tell a friend that I only want her to hang out? (score: -1) | posted 31 minutes ago by Vahn (99 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
3 hours later…
6:46 AM
@Rainbacon I commented before it was migrated
7:16 AM
> "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
7:47 AM
It seems clear that the OP's crush is female.: agreed. my point was that she could bring a MALE friend to the date: agreed. as a message she's not interested: agreed (but then, why not just say "no" to the "date"?). IMO, be it a female or a male friend, it's exactly the same: I bring them to feel safe before going any further. My advice isn't misleading at all in either case I believe :) — OldPadawan 47 secs ago
#13891 OldPadawan (9982 rep) | A: How to politely tell a friend that I only want her to hang out? (score: 1) | posted 59 minutes ago by OldPadawan (9982 rep) | edited 26 minutes ago by OldPadawan (9982 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
8:19 AM
@Tinkeringbell or @AJ, you around?
@Mithrandir I am.
@AJ Alright. Do yo mind if I do some science about the above meta question? Are you available to refund a bounty if needed?
@Mithrandir I don't know how to refund the bounty?
i'll walk you through if needed
@Mithrandir ok
8:22 AM
Actually, I could probably do this on Lit.
@Mithrandir I ain't sure about it.
can you refund your own bounty?
not my own, my sock. want to test something, for science
@Mithrandir ah. ok.
@Mithrandir Though, I have answered it, but I don't know pretty much about it, so I only posted what could have happened.
8:25 AM
alright, that did nothing. experiment concluded :p
Undefined variable 'did nothing'.
bounty didn't go through
@Mithrandir check my answer and see if I have to add more.
Your answer seemed to cover it, I was just curious about something that made me think of.
THanks :)
8:31 AM
I was also curious about something to do with spam flags, but I'm not going to science that for reasons.
8:56 AM
Q: How can I accommodate my in-laws in a hotel without making them feel uncomfortable about paying the room?

PreservedFruitI want to invite my in-laws, who live in another country, to visit me and my wife. However, we do not have enough space in our apartment for so many people, so I would like to accommodate them in a nearby hotel instead. Unfortunately, given their financial situation my in-laws lack the money to ...

I also noticed back when I was going to a university and while I lived in that city afterward (between 2004 and 2011) that college students (those I didn't know) would rarely wave back or say hi if I said hi or waved to them as we crossed paths (while walking to and from campus)—I said 'hi' and/or waved a lot. That was a new to me (I was used to people responding in my home town, then). That was in Utah, but the students were from all over, but for people I knew, they would normally respond. (But people over a certain age where I live now usually respond, while the younger ones, not so much.) — Shule 1 min ago
#13662 Shule (145 rep) | Q: How to politely ask someone why they didn't say hi back? (score: 2) | posted 5 days ago by bighouse (243 rep) | edited 5 days ago by bighouse (243 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
9:13 AM
Q: How to Strategically decide to continue dating

kattappaI have been friends with this Amy for 3-4 years, since college. Recently we have started going on one on one dates couple of times a month. When we are out we really seem to connect, as we have been friends for long and have a somewhat common friend’s circle, field of work, play the same sports s...

1 hour later…
10:27 AM
@apaul the opposing side's argument is not that these problems are non-existent. It's that they're not the main issue, and if we want to be making SO a better place, they're not our primary concern
And damn right.
Most of the SO user-mods, meaning, people who do the regular janitorial work, are NOT racist or sexist, at least most of the time.
And please don't bring up the "you are sexist and you don't know it" argument. I hate that
10:55 AM
Q: How to convey seriousness in conditions when gifting money to brother

JesseTL;DR: I want to give my brother some money with a few conditions on how it is spent but believe he is unlikely to realise that I seriously plan to enforce those conditions. How can I convey my seriousness to him? I have an older brother whom I do/have gotten along well with for all of my life...

@ExtrovertedMainMan Longest question I've seen in a while :D I just kept going on and on, there was a more and more context I thought was relevant that came to mind as I was writing it
If I need to its no big deal to condense it down
11:16 AM
@Jesse great question. IMO you could cut some of the backstory, because you ask about IPS skills and -techniques, and not about a "standard" IPS problem. If it were the latter, then the more context the better. but since it is not, I do believe all that specific context is a bit too much. Answers about conversational skills and -techniques do not depend so much on your backstory.
As it is, the question is nice and contains all the necessary info to give a great answer. It is up to you, how much you want to cut in order to attract more readers (+ answers)
@Cashbee Being specific helps me get personal and targeted answers which is nice. But I could probably delete the entire first 3 paragraphs and the question works equally as well :D which would be better for the site. I might do a smaller trimming and then see how things go
12:14 PM
the two current answers both include suggestions that i specifically said I did not want >_> I started to go on a rant about why I don't think they will work but instead I think ill try leave the ball in their court. Its really their job to explain why if they want to disagree
That's the drawback of long questions ;) details tend to get overread or forgotten
surprisingly it did still attract answers. (albeit mediocre ones) 3 answers/70 views are pretty high stats
they are all "hacks" to solve my situation rather than answers to my actual question. I think hack answers are risky because they are likely to result in exactly what has happened, the suggestion is something that just wouldn't work in OP's case
patience you must have
good answers take time, and questions about actual IPS skills are rare and different to answer properly
12:24 PM
@Cashbee thanks, and yeah thats true
I have some things to do anyway so I might just distract myself and then come back in a couple hours to see if there are any comments I need to answer
tough to be patient when you are sitting there refreshing the page hoping for a golden answer to just 'appear' :D
1:09 PM
Do we yet have a question about how to find out if a person is single?
@Cashbee Err... no, because those are hard, and were usually phrased like 'is she interested in me'
@Cashbee First thing I usually do is check for an engagement/wedding ring (granted that doesn't remove all people who aren't single)
But yeah, that's a hard question to get right for IPS
@Cashbee Is it like, find out sneakily, or 'inquire after a relationship status'?
@Rainbacon but it can.
@Tinkeringbell 'inquire after a relationship status'
@Cashbee Could work...
But why not ask directly? :P
1:24 PM
@Tinkeringbell I would like to inquire without indicating that I am interested in a relationship. Because if said person is not single, such an inquiry creates such awkward tension.
I'm asking for a friend
@Cashbee Ah... that's complicated :P Now it almost sounds like a phrasing request? :P
How to ask a question without implying ulterior motives... :P
@Tinkeringbell I know what you mean but its more finding approaches
@Cashbee :) Just be careful phrasing it that way ;-)
Are you dealing with a very dense, or very suspicious person?
Makes a difference, one could ask me and I would answer and not think twice about it...
@Tinkeringbell it's more a generic person
"hypothetical situation", VTC
1:27 PM
My advice would be 'don't ask out of the blue'... but it's cool if you're like sharing that you live alone with your two cats, and then ask 'what about you?' :P
@Tinkeringbell "I live alone with my cats" could be counter productive... m.imgur.com/gallery/GXyT0CY
@apaul Haha ;) I personally don't like cats. I think I'll take in a rabbit once I'm living on my own: sunnyskyz.com/uploads/2016/08/74vz7-huge-rabbit.jpg
@Tinkeringbell Please don't take just one. They're social animals.
(But if cats work counterproductive, maybe I'll need one of those as well)
@SQB Eh, you're right. I should've said 2. For the record, we always had 2 :D
Also, please don't call it "Flappie".
1:40 PM
@SQB "Walter-Valentijn" :P
(Not our name, one of our friends named their guinea pig that way. The other one got called 'Dinges')
@Tinkeringbell Obligatory:
@apaul classic
The castle of AAAaaaaaaaargh is the best castle anywhere
They knew how to name stuff
@apaul I really should watch the whole thing sometimes :) The clips I see are quite funny
1:49 PM
I'm giving up on my aforementioned question draft. I can't think of a way to shape it into a good enough fit. If somebody wants to take over, feel free.
also, ain't nobody got time fo' that
@Cashbee For what? Writing good IPS questions? :P
@Tinkeringbell yes I need to focus more on work ;)
@Cashbee Aaaah! Work. Quite an elusive thing. I'm quite glad that I'm in between assignments right now ;-) I kinda hope I'll still be next week ;)
@Tinkeringbell Whaaaat? Your nerd credentials are hereby revoked. :P
@apaul I don't know, but I got the impression my parents wouldn't let me watch it because of either language or sexual content :P I'm still catching up on that nerd thing ;)
1:52 PM
@Cashbee I am fairly sure I have seen a question asking that before. We get more "is she into me?" questions but I swear I can remember seeing this somewhere
@Tinkeringbell Ya... There may be some content that's unsuitable for some.
It may have been closed?
Yeah I have seen many of those poorly worded questions too. I still think there is a way to ask it more generally while still staying on topic. But I'm not gonna do it
> Ni !
> Ni! Ni!
@Tinkeringbell My cat sleeps in the sofa in the morning, then fights/plays with another cat and again sleeps (this time in the bed, as if she owns the place).
So, I can see why you wouldn't like them
@Sid Most experiences I have with cats include scratches, walking over the kitchen counter and hairs... :P There must be some very sweet cats out there too, but apparently, not for me ;)
1:59 PM
"Walking over the kitchen counter" is a thing 95% of cats do.
@Sid Yeah, which I hate because the only animals I like in the places where I prepare food, are dead and edible animals
Cats are not pets. Cats are wild animals living in houses. Like mice and rats.
@SQB I'd beg to differ... about the kitchen counter too
@SQB which pet is NOT a wild animal living in houses?
@Cashbee dogs are fully domesticated.
2:02 PM
Q: Why was this question asking "Was this inappropriate" reopened?

Em CThis is the question: Was it inappropriate for me to wear a qipao as a formal dress? It was closed originally as off-topic, but got reopened after an edit which replaced "is this cultural appropriation" with "was this inappropriate / rude". According to the help center (which is also explained ...

@Tinkeringbell throw a pillow at it. Many cats get scared. Especially if the pillows are giant ones
I have a cat that will spend all day sleeping sleeping on my lap or following around feet and all night sleeping on belly. The most "wild" thing she has ever done is is sneeze
dogs were wild animals too once (wolves). So an animal is only a pet after it has been made to pets for long enough?
@Sid meh... I don't think taking in an animal just to throw stuff at it is that good of a plan ;)
I would say that an animal is only a pet when it acts like a pet. Is this a classic case of stereotypes? domesticated animals are people too! ... ooh wait :P
2:08 PM
Where are the pets-mods when you need them most?
@Cashbee taking care of their pets
good mods
@Cashbee that's what the pets say to them, yeah
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ aha!
@Cashbee You called...?
2:23 PM
@Henders did I accidentally say Henders three times again?
I've got dog like hearing ;)
@Henders "Cats are not pets. Cats are wild animals living in houses. Like mice and rats." what would you say about that?
6 messages moved to Trash
@Cashbee what say you move them into a new room instead of Trash
So whoever wants to flag does?
the Closet's already got 'em
2:40 PM
I'd say that cats are pretty well domesticated, but unlike dogs who started out as social pack hunters, cats are more independent. Cats don't need their humans' approval the way dogs do.
On the other hand, it's somewhat easy to argue that cats are better at training humans than humans are at training cats...
And then there's the killer cat meme
ΚΙιιεR ςΔτ
@Cashbee If there's one thing I've learnt from being a pets mod it's never speak ill of cats.
I'm not a huge fan but I can see why others might be :P
haha very diplomatic
As with dogs, I'm sure there's a real range of intelligence too so one experience may differ from others.
2:53 PM
okay, I have learned one thing
I still like to look at cute cat pictures in the litter box, though :P
never expect a clear answer from pets mods :D
@Cashbee Possibly correct.
@Henders No cats... but there's a spider screams
(Can I flag spiders as being unwelcoming? :P)
2:54 PM
no, it clearly NLN
wait thats just plain wrong :X
Haha, yeah. I posted a dog now, don't worry.
Only if they're Shelob
To be fair, Shelob was quite welcoming. Maybe slightly webby but otherwise...
This starts out with a really interesting premise that promises to meet her on her territory that I hadn't considered. But the rest of this really doesn't talk about steps to approach the desired result, which would improve the answer. Also, you state about teaching her Scripture being a wild turn-on. I'm curious about what that is based on. I agree that mutually studying religion together is a good thing but am not sure about this aspect of it. — baldPrussian 32 secs ago
#13917 baldPrussian (14582 rep) | A: How can I encourage discussion of sensitive topics with my girlfriend? (score: -1) | posted 22 minutes ago by Awesome (1012 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
Invited people into her house...
2:55 PM
@Tinkeringbell Spiders are know for being welcoming. "Welcome to my parlor, said the spider to the fly"
@Mithrandir "You shouldn't be afraid of spiders, they're small" "So are hand grenades"
@Tinkeringbell I'd be scared if I saw a spider the size of a hand grenade though :P
@apaul There's this Dutch rime: "Dit is de spin Sebastiaan, het is niet goed met hem gegaan" (Link, with English translation: dutchgrammar.com/en/?n=POD.00006)
no translation needed (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
@Cashbee Ah? :P Are you keeping a secret? :P
@Henders I think Australia has a few of those?
3:00 PM
Bleugh. Spiders.
@Tinkeringbell One or two.. dutch has many similarities with swiss german. Also, I have been in the netherlands 4 times already :D
@Tinkeringbell cute
I'm not saying I could pronounce it correctly, that is a whole different story with dutch :D
@apaul I love the texts from that writer. They were fun and innocent if you're a kid, but if you become older you get the double entendres some have and they're still good for a laugh :)
@Mithrandir24601 I just dug this up youtu.be/0c2sx47p31M
3:03 PM
@IPSCommentBot The answer that this comment is on is...interesting, to say the least
Luckily the most common large spider in australia is harmless :) we had one in our classroom called Harold. More like the size of 4 hand grenades though :D
Harold the huntsman
@Jesse Things like that are the reason I never want to visit australia
@Rainbacon your loss :^)
@Rainbacon what, harmless spiders?
For me, its the harmful spiders :D
@Cashbee Harmless or not, it's the size of 4 hand grenades. As an arachnophobe, I'll steer clear
3:08 PM
what kind of hand grenades?
ah jk don't listen to me
I just want to avoid working :S
@Cashbee You're a room owner now :P Just put the room in time-out for an hour, and get some work done! XD
@Tinkeringbell Please don't, because that would me I'd have to go get some work done
@Tinkeringbell I presume this is the mod talking? ;DD
@Cashbee Definitely nod! :P
3:13 PM
I've gotta go, dinner ;) I'll be back, be nice! (And no timeouts!)
@Tinkeringbell enjoy! (and yes, maybe no timeouts)
Does anyone have thoughts on flagging this as not an answer? As was pointed out in comments, it has nothing to do with helping encourage conversation. Plus, if I wanted a sermon I'd have asked my parents this question instead of the internet.
@Rainbacon I think there's a strong argument for deletion. I was going to wait to see what the community thinks, so if you want to flag, go ahead.
@Rainbacon Like a few of that users answers its right on the line... I personally think it is not delete worthy but because it is completely centered around the answeres opinions without much inter personal context I think it is more of a "downvote only" scenario
@HDE226868 I did decide to flag it. Not only is it not an answer, but it makes quite a few assumptions about the nature of our relationship.
3:29 PM
@Rainbacon I was also unsure about that. While in a way it does indirectly answer the question by saying choose the right location that has nothing to do with intimacy but there is so much unnecessary, preaching, and opinionbased stuff in there..
@Jesse I did consider only downvoting it, but decided to go with the flag based on the number of assumptions and opinions in it
Also, I see it as a potential target for a horrible comment chain
@Rainbacon I just voted to delete... I suppose it could be construed as an answer due to the third para but everything else is just moralizing IMO..
@Rainbacon That specific user does not generally respond to comments so at least I don't think a bad comment chain is too likely
3:42 PM
@Jesse Well they've responded (rudely I would say, and have flagged as such) to the comments that are there
lol, wow
Hey, @EmC how's your answer coming along?
@Rainbacon working on it! :)
@EmC :) Exciting! I'm quite interested in your perspective based on our conversation yesterday
@Rainbacon haha well, I hope I don't disappoint :P
fwiw I think the other answer has some good general guidelines as well :)
3:49 PM
I'm sure you won't. I'm usually a big fan of your anwers
And yeah, I agree, the other answer is a good one
oh boy, looks like your prediction about the comments is coming true :/
That one reminds me of something Shog said the other night... Sometimes we spend a little too much time quibbling about whether something is rude or should be removed...
Speaking of...
Q: How to tell a gay co-worker to stay far and to never try to flirt

Moslem CherifI am working in a company in Germany, and I have co-workers from different cultures and countries. As a person, I am open and I don't have any problem with any religion or idea, because I believe everyone is free in this life. Around 2 months ago, the company recruited someone who's gay. For me, ...

It doesn't look like this one is going to be improved, can we delete it already?
@apaul Why delete it.
As is it's a good indicator of what not to do.
It's closed, all answers are deleted . It's very clear what's wrong with the post and what needs to be done to fix it.
Also, Welcome back.
@sphennings Because it was a pretty um... Unwelcoming sort of post, and seeing that it was upvoted isn't great.
@apaul already voted on it ;) even regardless of content, it's been sitting around waiting for improvements for a month, and OP has been active here and not improved it, so it is adding no value
4:04 PM
@apaul I don't disagree that it's a bad question. But it's been made very clear that as written the question isn't acceptable for this site.
I guess, for me, it's a reminder of a day that a good many people acted like hot garbage and it took a CM to step in and shut it down... If the community had downvoted it and closed it without much fuss, it would probably be a better signpost.
Right, guys, can someone help me with question-framing so that it doesn't get vtc-ed?
@apaul HNQ tends to skew the numbers for upvotes vs downvotes. The association bonus alone isn't enough to downvote.
@Sid In one sentence what is your question?
How to refuse someone help in academics?(That's the short version)
I can elaborate if you want
@Sid We'll get to that.
What's wrong with just saying "No I won't help you?"
4:13 PM
(a) People assume you are too arrogant and (b) It hardly helps develop good relations with colleagues.
So you're wanting to refuse to help a colleague while preserving your relationship with them?
Er... Yes.
Does that sound impossible?
@Sid It definitely is over here, but so is 'No, sorry, I don't have the time right now'
Given the incredibly minute amount of information I have about the specifics, it's certainly possible.
Could it be a cultural difference? I kinda get the vibe that the societal norm over there is to help when asked?
4:19 PM
@Tinkeringbell And then, they come back later when you are even more busy. If you do it multiple times, they get that you are trying to avoid them but then, that complicates matters..
@Tinkeringbell Sort of, yes.
@Sid How often have you helped them in the past? How often have they helped you?
@Sid Very important to put that in the question then :)
@sphennings quite often, especially last semester.
To which?
Are you students, grad students, professors?
"How often they have helped you?"- In Non-Academics matter, often enough
Undergraduate students
4:21 PM
Is this a request for help related to school or something external like helping them move?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Laughing about someone's spelling mistakes isn't very nice. Knock it off.
Jeez, I'm not laughing at them
The misspelling has made for a funny sentence, not a funny person
If anything, I should be thanking them for a good laugh after such a down day
Hey Card
So....if I understand correctly, all I have to do is include culture and write a question with specific details and it would be fit for the site?
4:28 PM
@Sid I think it can be, if you can clearly state that a straight-out refusal isn't quite possible given the cultural background..
4:58 PM
Q: How to tactfully refuse academic help?

SidAs an undergraduate student(and a so-called nerd), I have had friends who request for academic help a day or two before the exams. Now, I don't have much problem with helping them and I try my best to do that. However, you can't help everyone all the time. I learnt that the hard way in my mid-te...

5:22 PM
12 messages moved to Trash
1 hour later…
6:24 PM
Bad question, good answer.
Q: How to politely tell a friend that I only want her to hang out?

VahnI have a crush on my collegue friend and want to take her out to cinemas or other places. When I ask her out, she always asks me if her female friend could go along with her. I know it's not a date just hang out together. But, I really only want the two of us. How do I politely tell her about it?

@sphennings @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ wasn't laughing AT them, he was laughing near them
grabs hammer and smashes wifi router
@Mithrandir Excellent! I haven't listened to this in... Two days? :P :)
except my internet is being so bad i can barely browse, let alone listen to an entire musical
Can I change my name to Mithrandir so that we can eliminate all the confusion?
@Mithrandir Don't smash the router then :P Although that's a shame actually :/
@RichardU How about Mithrandir24602? Mith can take Mithrandir24600 :P (I should probably not encourage this though)
6:37 PM
smashes modem instead
Q: How to get out of visiting family as often without any hard feelings?

amflareGrowing up, we always had family dinners to celebrate birthdays and similar events like Mother's Day, Father's Day, and some other things that are personal to our family. These traditions have been continued in the years since I've moved out, with the addition of Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Y...

1 hour later…
8:06 PM
Q: What does accepting people mean?

Sharen EayrsI talked to a coach. I said that I want people to accept me the way they are. My coach told me that what you should do to get people to accept you? I have no idea. I mumble something about well, I should be accepting of people too. I told him I don't accept anyone though. I don't want to even ...

8:54 PM
@IPSCommentBot That's the whole point of putting a question on hold
Hence my comment. :P
9:46 PM
@Rainbacon I take exception to people, is that the same thing?
@ExtrovertedMainMan it awards them 15 rep
And a tick mark on . . . Their pants?
@RichardU yay
2 hours later…
11:23 PM
@EmC great answer to my question. I think you hit the nail on the head with the shame thing. That was exactly the sort of help I was looking for

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