Charcoal HQ - 2018-01-26 (page 1 of 3)

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12:03 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in title: What SimpleDateFormat is this: 2016-10-19T21:02:22+00:00? by Duncan Proctor on stackoverflow.com (@iBug)

12:15 AM

@ArtOfCode it's fine, I put 1870/01/01 🤣

💡 I have a great user-script idea; an Emoji Button that opens a little popup (with emojis) so I can send emojis right through here (without searching my emoji and c/p it). This website getemoji.com has a bunch to start with. Here's a sample rendering:

user image

I had a userscript that did exactly that, but it got deleted when I switched to voilentmonkey

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: How do I remove individual autofill suggestions from Google Chrome? by Burzghash on superuser.com (@iBug)

naa- by WELZ

@angussidney [mouth drops]

Well it shouldn't be too hard for you to make a new one (and share it this time) :P

I didn't make it, I think someone from one of the math chatrooms did

But I forget who they were

I never used it anyway, since I don't like emojis :P

I'm searching through my firefox files now to see if it's still there

@angussidney correction that would be 😛

12:34 AM

@angussidney If you were on FF/Greasemonkey < 4, then the userscript files are in [profile directory]/gm_scripts/*, with one directory per script. They would not normally be deleted when switching to Greasemonkey >=4 or Violentmonkey.

Yeah, I've found it, I'm just trying to find where the original version is hosted now, since it was removed :/

Anyway, here's the source if you want to install it manually: (beware, 200kb of emoji incoming)

@angussidney Not that I actually want you to find it, as I'm not a fan of lots of emojis :-(

// ==UserScript==
// @name         Emoji Button
// @namespace    tampermonkey.net
// @version      0.0.2
// @description  Add a button to push to do the Emoji Thing!
// @author       Teh Flamin' Taco
// @include *://chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/*
// @include *://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/*
// @include *://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/*
// @include *://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/*
// @include *://chat.askubuntu.com/rooms/*
// @include *://chat.serverfault.com/rooms/*
// @updateURL   rawgit.com/TehFlaminTaco/TacosUserscripts/blob/master/…

7 mins ago, by angussidney

I never used it anyway, since I don't like emojis :P

Cool awesome, what is all the gibberish at the end?

user image

Did most of them work?

12:39 AM

@angussidney most

random emojis that also happen to be available in unicode... show the unicode char

overall it'll do

Maybe SE chat didn't like it

gist.github.com/angussidney/9f474ea69681d9b1ec0fcb0cedcd160a

^ there's a proper gist

On-the-spot straw poll: is the correct capitalization metasmoke, Metasmoke, or MetaSmoke?

use stars:

metasmoke

5

Metasmoke

MetaSmoke

@ArtOfCode winner

/me is working on a document I've wanted to work on for a long time

some basic branding guidelines

including correct capitalizations and spellings

and the punishment for not following 😠

12:52 AM

nah that's just me editing your post if you get it wrong :P

Speaking of... maybe it's just me but metasmoke took a while to load in a new tab just now.

yep

So, it's "Charcoal" and "SmokeDetector" but "metasmoke"? That seems somewhat inconsistent.

it does that, specially the homepage

@Catija everyone

12:53 AM

@Catija [best-bad-practices]

@Catija inconsistency is beautiful

I say metasmoke because that's what it is on the site itself

we can change it lol

^^^

I think it looks better without caps anyway

Though when you type it it looks a little weird

12:59 AM

But it's definitely not any variant of "Meta Smoke" :P

I've been using metasmoke for so long that Metasmoke or MetaSmoke just look... wrong

Seems like everyone agrees... (in cases where everyone includes just us chickens... and I haven't voted yet).

@ArtOfCode maybe we'll make some swag o.O

(once we have our guidelines)

@WELZ Honestly, I would love to. But swag-making (and more importantly swag-shipping) is expensive :(

we can fundraise.

1:09 AM

heh

that has its own pot of problems, unfortunately

"Donate to me, I block spam"

We were still hoping to get around to set up some sort of donation system, since some people said that they would donate

we can sell ads (spam posts that smokey won't detect) and use that money for swag LMAO

Blackmail :P

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] No whitespace in answer: How can I restore my wallet? by Hacked Hacked on bitcoin.SE

tpu- by WELZ

1:11 AM

blackmail SE to stop finding spam mwahahha

@WELZ I don't think that would fly... "pay us $2500 and your spam will last two minutes longer!"

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: LND describegraph and getnetworkinfo RPC response by hacked hacked on bitcoin.SE

tpu- by WELZ

We can make stickers... (Example: $25.08 for 500 - $0.05 each) and then sell them for $3 a piece I think people will buy them

@ArtOfCode hey, time is money

Stickers are cheap to mail anywhere.... so are beer coasters... also fun, flat magnets.

@WELZ Potentially... but honestly, if we're doing swag, I'd like to make like SE and make it exclusive swag.

Swag you get for doing things with us rather than just giving us money.

1:16 AM

@ArtOfCode thing like?

Being here

Developing stuff

Helping out with deleting spam

Finding a security hole

Yeah

Managing to blow up all of the instances at once

or make it a milestone swag thing, you get swag when you get code admin

hey, I heard if you hang out in CHQ you get free swag.... 2 days later "can I get my stickers?" (whine whine)

1:17 AM

@angussidney heh, I'd have to mail myself swag pretty regularly

What a shame :)

@WELZ yeah, you have to keep it reasonably quiet to avoid that, but it's doable

My hacktoberfest swag arrived while I was on holidays \o/

I don't think it has to be one or the other. "Donate to Charcoal" is an option.

You limit what swag to make it exclusive.

point

also if we do swag we need to make mugs

1:20 AM

No amount of donations will get the same swag as actually contributing (code).

My SO mug got broken and I want a new good mug like that :P

If you need help, let me know. I've worked in online order fulfillment and have experience with international shipping. :) Not exhaustive... but I've been looking for a way to help.

@Catija hey if it takes the stress off me, I'd happily take you up on that :)

:D

...huh, international postage is cheaper than I thought

well, for stickers at least

1:34 AM

How much would it cost roughly?

Rough calculation: £4.54 per person to make and mail 2 logo stickers to every core member (3 to each code admin)

How does that break down?

£1.54 for manufacture (£57 for 110), plus ~£3 postage from me to the US

37 core members

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: DNS: Is it valid to have an "MX" record and no "A" record? by John Nagle on serverfault.com

You can reduce shipping costs by a lot if you find someone in country to send to. I can send an envelope for ~$.50. (Within the US).

1:39 AM

I have a feeling that shipping to me in AU might cause a major cost blowout

Flat letters aren't usually too bad.

@angussidney heh, that's why I call it £3 for everyone, and I make a saving on the people in Europe that I blow on sending to you and Yvette :)

@Catija that... could work - if I got them made and sent to me, I could send the whole US contingent to you and I'll take care of the Europe/AUS contingent

Yep.

I'm liking this... we'd just have to get buy-in from enough people to make it worth it :)

@ArtOfCode Remember not everyone will be comfortable with giving their adresses away to more than one internet stranger tho

1:42 AM

@angussidney this is true, but that's just something you say upfront and if people aren't happy with it then they can duck out this time

That just requires being up front with who will have the info.

if we have more funds available and do another swag run then they could jump on the swag train then

@Catija I'm imagining "If you're in Europe/Asia/Australia then your address will go to Art; if you're US then it goes to Art+Catija"

And people can have stuff sent to third parties or their work or whatever.

Yep.

And if there's a US person people are more comfortable with, I'll bow out.

New metasmoke user 'gparyani' created

and then some day five years from now a bunch of us end up at the same conference

"...don't I recognize that laptop sticker?"

1:45 AM

Come to SXSW!!!

Heh. Just a touch far for me :)

@ArtOfCode Can I please get reviewer privileges on metasmoke?

!!/amiprivileged

@gparyani ✓ You are a privileged user.

I'm the same username there as here.

done

1:49 AM

@ArtOfCode Thanks!

@ArtOfCode I was with Andy at one in Berlin once... it was over Christmas... CCC.

@Catija I've literally never been outside the UK on my own... so there's that

@ArtOfCode first figure out where most of our core members are, so we know where the most cost efficient place to ship from is.

@WELZ US

so it makes more sense for them to be shipped from US

1:50 AM

tpu by gparyani on Injecting singletons in to a Spring Boot Application Context [MS]

@WELZ That was sort of my point earlier but I'm going to guess that sending stuff from the UK to Europe is going to be cheaper than for someone in the US to do the same.

@ArtOfCode Ah. Well... I've been to the UK?

but sending from EU to US?

@WELZ The idea was that Art would send a chunk of them to someone in the US (me?) and they would mail it to everyone in the US.

(Just an aside: when we want to send something from the US to India, we usually send it with a friend who happens to be traveling)

ahhh, that makes sense

1:52 AM

Sending 20 people's worth of stuff in one package is cheaper than sending 20 separate packages. :D

So I pay shipping once to the US instead of 30 times, and the US dispatcher pays the 30 much-reduced onward shipping costs

Yep :D

good idea. I think printing them in the US and doing this plan vice versa may be more cost effective

probably about the same... can't say I've actually looked at USPS, but Royal Mail overseas shipping is pretty cheap

how much?

1:54 AM

@ArtOfCode It's costly here. postcalc.usps.com

@WELZ I could send the 30 US loads to Catija for about £3-4

@ArtOfCode oh wow, that's very cheap!

How much would it cost to do several different sticker runs? If we team up with SOBotics we might be able to reduce costs

I heard Delta is adding temporary service from Amsterdam and SAS from Stockholm straight to Austin just for SXSW

@angussidney not a bad idea... again, you save on postage costs

doubled sticker costs cuz you can't print both sets in one run, but still only one lot of postage

1:58 AM

Could also cost less to order more stickers depending on volume price breaks.

What stickers are these?

@Catija yeah, it does, but if only 30 people are willing to pay then ordering 1000 stickers is way too much overhead :)

@gparyani theoretical Charcoal stickers, at the moment

How many suppliers have you checked?

@Catija a whole one :)

okay, star poll incoming...

printrunner.com/cut-to-size-sticker-printing-b.html

2:01 AM

Star this message if... you'd be interested in hearing more about Charcoal stickers. (Initial, rough calculations: ~$4 each for 5 logo stickers per core member.)

Star this message if you're NOT interested

@ArtOfCode no, but having 50-100 extra (both in US and EU) isn't a bad idea

I think the number he was looking up was for 500?

@WELZ yup, just needs someone to pick up the initial tab

@Catija 110

25 mins ago, by ArtOfCode

£1.54 for manufacture (£57 for 110), plus ~£3 postage from me to the US

which is enough for 2 per core, 3 per code admin, plus 8 spares

2:03 AM

Ah, yeah, that seems a bit high...

@ArtOfCode What size, rounded corners?

@WELZ 5x5cm cut to shape

This place (with the options I picked) was 14.80 for 200...

discountstickerprinting.co.uk/quote/price/#

(Minimum order £40.00)

Minimum order of 40 ... so if we ordered two batches of stickers for SO Botics...

2:08 AM

I would just do two different SD stickers lol

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Who are the people brought from beyond the rivers of Cush in Zephaniah 3:10? by Jesurun on hermeneutics.SE

Yeah... it's less expensive for more stickers in more styles...

@Catija I'm getting quoted £44 for 200, using the same options as I had for the other retailer

still cheaper, though

what are your specs?

£34.10 for 110

2:13 AM

I picked the lower-end options.

@WELZ custom shape, 5x5cm, clear background, normal print, low tack, no white, standard finish, supply individually

custom shape because it looks better

clear background so it can be a laptop sticker

and individual supply so that they can be mailed out individually

(well, in pairs, but they don't do rolls of 2)

@ArtOfCode Why low tack? That's designed for windows...

@Catija Cheaper :)

I got £31.68 for 200 60x60mm on Polypropylene (clear) standard adhesive, finish

@ArtOfCode no it isn't

@ArtOfCode I really doubt that...

2:15 AM

coulda sworn it said cheaper

oh

cheaper than (type of adhesive not listed)

strong and low-tack are the same price

Surprising.

I did 5 X 5 clear, normal print direction, standard adhesive, no white, standard finish, supply individually I get 22 for 200...

user image

400 stickers like that, two designs (200 each) comes to 50 with VAT.

@Catija I think 6x6 is better... it already includes vat

@ArtOfCode I suggest that before we actually go ahead with this, we should consider setting up a proper donation system that we can handle the money through (in my initial research OpenCollective looks good)

@angussidney paypal 🤣

Paypal when sent as a gift is free... isn't it?

2:24 AM

and from a debit card, yes

Paypal and Ca$happ and google sheets to keep track of who did and didn't send

@angussidney Oh, that's more like Kickstarter or Patreon...

opencollective.com/opensource/apply

It's either that or trust someone

and while we're pretty good at trusting and being trustworthy... this is money

angus has a point

The thing is with paypal/kickstarter is that it all goes to one person, and spending isn't very transparent

With this, you submit an expense, one of the maintainers can approve it, and you get paid, everything is logged publicly

More importantly, it encourages monthly donations (as opposed to one-offs) and sponsors (we could nag SE)

Another option is that we could always set up a wider 'SE bots' collective that everyone can donate/draw upon

@angussidney Patreon does that as well

2:27 AM

Yeah

@angussidney If you did that, does it allow earmarking donations?

@Catija not by default, but there is an organisations feature that is currently in private beta

I would probably prefer a charcoal-only collective to start off with anyway

Since we have >100 stars we are elegible

Stars?

Oh, on GitHub?

"You'll need a GitHub account and a repository with over 100 stars."

Now you have another one :P

@WELZ That's not on the "learn more" page :P

2:31 AM

@Catija it's on the ~~front~~ signup page

We have a repository with over 100 stars

SOBotics does not

@WELZ Well, I didn't click that page. :D

just pointing out (not complaining) they take 5%

Yeah. That's not unusual. Is that the full fees? Often there's a fee for the management and one for credit card processing.

@Catija the credit card fees are separate by the looks of it

2:35 AM

Can someone throw an issue on the Smokey repo about this? Needs a wider discussion before we do it

Depends on who you use to make the payment

> Open Collective takes 10% of the money raised by the collective for managing bookkeeping, taxes, and admin (fiscal sponsorship), as well as providing your Open Collective page and the software it runs on. We share this commission with the fiscal sponsor (legal owner of the bank account that holds the money on behalf of the collective).

> Additionally, our payment processors charge a fee - Stripe for receiving money via a Credit Card and PayPal for paying out expenses. Usually 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction. We are exploring adding other means of payment to reduce those fees, including ACH transfers and Bitcoin.

that's pretty pricey

I remember reading somewhere that the fiscal sponsor decides how much of a cut they want, so they can set it to 0%

@angussidney github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/commit/…

2:38 AM

Patreon is 5% plus credit card fees.

Remember that OpenCollective itself is also open source, so that money isn't going to some corporation

But that money doesn't go to us, which isn't good

@iBug thanks, I'll take another look

@angussidney Fixed already

@iBug the problem with that is that it no longer catches normal emails

!!/test interested hahaha@bang.com

> Bad keyword with email in body, bad keyword with email in title
----------
Title - Keyword *interested* with email hahaha@bang.com
Post - Keyword *interested* with email hahaha@bang.com

2:41 AM

Oh

!!/test interested ~~~hahaha~~~@$$$signs###.com

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

Oh, \b is word boundary so it doesn't match punctuation adjacency.

Don't worry, I misunderstood how \b works

!!/test interested hahaha bang.com

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

2:43 AM

!!/test interested hahaha @ bang.com

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

... maybe it's time to add optional spaces back ...

No, optional spaces didn't work

!!/test interested Intel Core i7-7700K@4.2GHz

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

2:44 AM

Give me a little while, and I'll take another look at it

OK.

@iBug that's a edge case and a half

Okay, y'all: Initial attempt at branding guidelines. There's more to come, but comments welcome.

6

@angussidney I think we can have optional spaces around the @ sign and the word dot.

But optional spaces around the word AT and the dot punctuation is going to generate some FPs.

It's also fine to have optional spaces around parenthesized word AT like a (at) b.com

@ArtOfCode ~~do we want to change our monospace font to Fira Code? It has awesome ligatures for programming~~ probably not supported in anything other than an IDE

2:49 AM

@angussidney Fira Mono/Fira Code are the same thing

@angussidney change to wingdings

user image

@angussidney actually... :D go to our website, find something in monospace, edit it with dev tools to =>, and watch the magic

Wow, it does

Fira Code + Syntax highlighting looks beautiful

:42499900 charcoal-se.org/smokey/Creating-new-spam-checks

@ArtOfCode turns out that the website is actually using Fira Code, not mono

Looks like the guidelines will need to be updated after all

Edited to => but nothing seemed special...

I might have edited the wrong stuff.

2:57 AM

@angussidney definitely mono

user image

Tried editing in F12 but no luck

@ArtOfCode What's up with my browser?

Hard refresh doesn't fix it for some reason

@iBug what browser?

Same thing as my concern on SO same code.

@angussidney Google Chrome 62.0.3202.94 (Official Build) (64-bit)

I'm using latest stable firefox

What about Art? You use Chrome, right?

I'll try Firefox 57 now.

3:02 AM

58.0 (64-bit)

I only have 57 installed on my computer.

Shouldn't matter that much

Nothing special in FF 57

user image

@angussidney heh, nothing

I wrote it wrong

you and I have Code installed, so we're seeing it

iBug is falling back to... Courier New, by the looks?

@ArtOfCode So it's not my fault?

Seems so.

Googling for Fira Code

Having trouble downloading a single folder from GitHub...

3:08 AM

okay, I updated the CSS

should fallback to Mono now if Code isn't available

[ charcoal-se.github.io ] continuous-integration/travis-ci/push success on c227e83: The Travis CI build passed

@iBug just download one that your system supports

There are 5.

I used svn and successfully downloaded a single folder.

Wait, Github works with SVN? TIL

@ArtOfCode consider placing all the fonts together (just add a couple of blank lines before) so that they are all grouped

3:10 AM

@angussidney ibug@ubuntu:~ $ svn checkout "https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode/trunk/distr/ttf"

@WELZ huh?

my bad, in the branding guidelines. it looks off that the page break is in middle of something

oh

Yeah, it is

will fix when I'm done with 'em, if I do it now it'll just go wrong again when I edit things later

@angussidney Just replace tree/master in URL with trunk and Subversion will work.

Never tried writing, but read-only operations should be fine.

@WELZ Word processing rant of the day: when you need to shove something onto the next page, please don't just add newlines, because if someone edits above, everything will overflow which is a pain. Instead, use a page break (ctrl+enter), which will automatically adjust

3:17 AM

Lol

Page break:Ctrl+Enter

Line Break (no paragraph): Shift+Enter

What every Word programmer should know

~~What every Excel programmer should know~~

What WELZ should know

user image

@ArtOfCode Still no luck after installing the font.

@iBug Try putting it somewhere else maybe (outside of a string)

@angussidney Nope.

3:31 AM

Strange

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How to find IP address of bridged router? by Vo Trung Huy on stackoverflow.com (@iBug)

tpu- by Tetsuya Yamamoto

naa- by Tetsuya Yamamoto

3:56 AM

!!/test interested aaa-at-bbb-dot-com

> Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

:42500253 > Would not be caught as a post, title or username.

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Transcript for

Jan '1826

Charcoal HQ

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