The Nineteenth Byte

Neutrinos couldn't interact with a mouse anyway. We have to... sigh... carry the energy to various components manually to simulate computer signals.

ATaco

Neutrinos usually can't interact with much at all.

Zachary T

1:11 AM

Do you do it while hyperactive?!

(LOL, made/continued a pun on his name)

Destructible Lemon

not really

HyperNeutrino

No, a hyperneutrino is not a neutrino that's hyperactive

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino So it's a not neutrino with ADHD?

HyperNeutrino

Jan Dvorak offers a good explanation of what it actually is.

Apr 11 at 2:21, by Jan Dvorak

A bineutrino is an excited bound state of two neutrinos that occurs once per year per galaxy and lasts about 10^-36 seconds. Normally they aren't useful, but a type-IV civilization is able to create a swarm of bineutrino collectors that can stabilize one temporarily until hopefully a third neutrino reacts with the existing bineutrino. The resulting trineutrino lasts much longer and is very likely to catalyze further collisions, creating a hyperneutrino, a particle the size of a small star.

Destructible Lemon

that was a bad pun. not a bad pun, as in "aah stupid pun", but just one that isn't good

Zachary T

1:12 AM

Pun's a pun.

CensoredUsername

wait isn't that just forming a neutron star just by chance?

Zachary T

Even if it's beyond cringe-worthy.

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino Wait, how do four neutrinos (small particles, right?) turn into a small star

HyperNeutrino

neutrino != neutron

Destructible Lemon

Do you cringe while drinking tea?

(LOL, made a pun on his name)

CensoredUsername

1:13 AM

misread, oops

Destructible Lemon

el oh el

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS you need many more; they clump together exponentially quickly as the size increases

CensoredUsername

yeah

HyperNeutrino

@DestructibleLemon not this again plz

Zachary T

@DestructibleLemon Whose name?

CensoredUsername

1:14 AM

Neutrino flux is pretty high in the universe after all

totallyhuman

Ey i brought a 8 month old challenge to fp

Destructible Lemon

T -> tea

CensoredUsername

10^10 neutrino's per second per square meter or so

Zachary T

... so you like making puns by single letters, eye assume. stares at the word assume

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman the (n)spooky(n+2)you one?

ATaco

1:15 AM

Personally I prefer (n)spooky(n**2)you

totallyhuman

Yup

CensoredUsername

anyway HyperNeutrino I'm looking forward to the idea you said you had on my challenge

totallyhuman

I think that's the challenge that also brought on the out-golf Dennis meme

HyperNeutrino

@CensoredUsername Essentially, for each square, calculate its probability by multiplying the probability of an adjacent cell with the probability that it will move to the direction of the current cell. It's a very interesting challenge, by the way; thanks for the challenge :)

Stephen S

@totallyhuman Uh, I think that meme has been around for a lot longer than that

Destructible Lemon

1:17 AM

@ATaco isnt (n)spooky(n^^2)you better

HyperNeutrino

(n)spooky(n**n)you

Zachary T

Why ^^?

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman Regex tokenizers

?

Also did anyone believe the hyperneutrino theory that Jan Dvorak made up

ATaco

INCREDIBLY SPOOKY

Stephen S

Is that a knuth arrow?

or w/e its called

ATaco

1:18 AM

Yes, yes it is.

Stephen S

> Note that since -0 is the same as 0

well duh

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino what are you asking?

CensoredUsername

Interesting. I've got an ungolfed reference implementation (to check correctness with / verify examples) that uses a probability-counting recursive descent method. However I think that in terms of code size, just simulating a large amount of balls will be shorter (it really depends on the language used though)

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman how does that not break on certain syntaxes?

Oh wait.

I'm dumb.

Never mind.

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco that is a super knuth arrow

HyperNeutrino

1:20 AM

@CensoredUsername So you already have a solution?

Destructible Lemon

R A R E A R R O W

Zachary T

nοise.

CensoredUsername

needed something to verify with that my examples didn't have indeterminate cases, and how do you think I produced the example output

it's a code-golf challenge after all

ATaco

We can GET SPOOKIER

Stephen S

What's the reason that strings always have to be immutable? I'm sure there's a good one

totallyhuman

1:21 AM

@HyperNeutrino I still have no idea what you're trying to say :P

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco how do you do an arrow to the power of n

Zachary T

Can you make it so theres n arrows? then an n?

ATaco

\uparrow^n

Destructible Lemon

or an arrow to the power of arrows

no I mean mathematically it makes no sense

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman Never mind; it's because I thought nesting things would break things but then I realized that you can just slice the front off after tokenizing. It makes sense in my head :P It's not an issue.

Stephen S

1:22 AM

@DestructibleLemon Because arrows in math make sense in the first place :P everything only makes sense within definitions

ATaco

Oh, well if n=3, then it's $3\uparrow \uparrow \uparrow 3$

Destructible Lemon

thats what it was before

CensoredUsername

anyway @HyperNeutrino I designed the challenge in a way that there's actually a bunch of ways to solve it, and which is more optimal really depends on the language used.

ATaco

$n\uparrow^{\uparrow^n}n$ is $n\uparrow^nn$ uparrows

HyperNeutrino

@CensoredUsername Ah, interesting. The three ways I see immediately (though there are probably more) are to backtrack until you eventually hit all edges (hence why I need guaranteed termination), execute forwards from the sources until you eventually branch down to the ends (also needs guaranteed termination), and the last one is to just run them all (which is not guaranteed to be correct, but run properly should be precise enough for your 90% requirement).

Zachary T

1:24 AM

How and when did the outgolf dennis meme start?

Stephen S

@ATaco I can do it without arrows: (n)spooky(A(100,100))you

ATaco

which equals roughly TOO MANY GOD DAMN SPOOKY

HyperNeutrino

@ZacharyT It is built into PPCG. It has always been with us.

totallyhuman

Hmm

Zachary T

Was there a pre-Dennis Dennis? (Guy with meme-status)

ATaco

1:25 AM

Fun fact, Ack is roughly equal to $\uparrow$

totallyhuman

Isn't it possible to have a Turing complete language with only two characters?

CensoredUsername

ah interesting, I didn't think of the backtracking one yet. The 3 ones I thought of are depth-first recursive descent, run them all, and line-wise iteration

Stephen S

@totallyhuman only need one

Destructible Lemon

@totallyhuman ^ any number of chars but 0

ATaco

It's rather easy to do it in 0.

CensoredUsername

1:26 AM

totallyhuman: sure would be possible as you could just define larger metacharacters from those two characters

ATaco

Just don't use a character based encoding.

CensoredUsername

I mean machine code is in binary right?

HyperNeutrino

lol true.

CensoredUsername

bits only need 2 characters

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco <look of disapproval>

CensoredUsername

1:27 AM

Technically you could even get away with 1 by making the program unary-encoded

ATaco

Technically, all programming languages use 2 "Characters", as each byte is just an array of 8 bits, which could themselves be seen as a character.

Zachary T

@DestructibleLemon stop stealing my shtick

CensoredUsername

but requiring a gigabyte-sized program to represent 32 bits is.. not efficient

Stephen S

@CensoredUsername Or just use the Unary programming language, which transpiles to BF

Destructible Lemon

I was using this before you were

ATaco

1:27 AM

@DestructibleLemon ಠ_ಠ

totallyhuman

>.> Stop getting technical

CensoredUsername

but hey if it floats your boat I ain't going to stop you

totallyhuman

Like a meta BF

Have the commands on a tape

ATaco

Buoyancy- I just realised where Buoy's get their names...

Stephen S

@totallyhuman No, Unary literally transpiles to BF

CensoredUsername

1:28 AM

I've got plenty of silly things myself (like a whitespace jit compiler that easily executes 1G instructions per second)

totallyhuman

Ok so

The tape is [<, >, +, -, ., , [, ]]

And it wraps around

ATaco

That sounds like a Turing Tarpit.

Destructible Lemon

@totallyhuman it's been done

totallyhuman

Yup

@DestructibleLemon aw ;-;

Stephen S

@DJMcMayhem Brain-Flak's on Wikipedia for Turing Tarpits, did you put it there?

Zachary T

1:31 AM

As I've said before, all the ideas are taken

Stephen S

@ZacharyT Not mine, but mine is stupid

Destructible Lemon

@StephenS I searched "Brain-flak wikipedia", but it gave me "against the sun"

Stephen S

@DestructibleLemon here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit

Destructible Lemon

because it was directed by brain falk I think

Stephen S

We need to get esolangs some SEO

Zachary T

1:34 AM

SEO?

CensoredUsername

Search Engine Optimization

Stephen S

@ZacharyT Learning abbreviations one step at a time :P

CensoredUsername

Although I'm not sure what you'd mean by that. Make people who google "good programming language" encounter CJam or something?

ATaco

I see quite a few Gravatars today.

Stephen S

@ATaco all your base are belong to us

ATaco

1:35 AM

Step 3: Contact the police.

Destructible Lemon

these <name initial> people are confusing me

Stephen S

@DestructibleLemon I guess I should just change my name to Step Hen after all then

2

Destructible Lemon

Especially since they all seem to be pink or purple

I mean to write brian falk before...

Zachary T

What should I put as my profile pic? Just a y with an acute accent?

ATaco

ÿ would you do that?

Destructible Lemon

1:37 AM

@ZacharyT sounds good

Stephen S

@ZacharyT no, with an acute angle

ATaco

Oh, I can't type an acute y...

HyperNeutrino

ý would you do that?

ATaco

ângery

Zachary T

I sometimes go by Zacharý.

HyperNeutrino

1:37 AM

[compose] + [y] + [']

ATaco

ý Oh wait, there we go.

(I'm not on linux)

I'm using a custom keyboard.

ah ok

Je suis âñgér

Jawohl.

Welp, I'm getting my wisdom teeth out Friday morning, fun 0.o

HyperNeutrino

1:38 AM

@StephenS rip have fun. but also off-topic btw; tnb is not for stream of conciousness

ATaco

Here's a tip for getting your wisdom teeth pulled, pudding

Zachary T

TNB == stream of consciousness.

Except with better grammar.

ATaco

The Nineteenth Level of Transcendence

totallyhuman

@HyperNeutrino ok come on :P

HyperNeutrino

@totallyhuman what.

Stephen S

1:39 AM

@ZacharyT *combined stream of consciousnesses

HyperNeutrino

> Don't abuse oneboxes. Certain types of links will be inlined into chat. While posting interesting pictures/animations is OK in moderation, consider just posting it as a regular link instead. Links to images are preferred because 1) they take up less vertical space, allowing more of the conversation to be seen, and 2) some users have slow internet, limited bandwidth, or use mobile data for chatting. A link to an image is much less disruptive. The same applies to excessively large code-blocks.

btw this exists

> Don't use The Nineteenth Byte as a dumping ground for your thoughts or actions. Consider whether a topic would be relevant to others before talking about it. We're here to have discussions, not to listen to someone's stream of consciousness.

totallyhuman

It's one message, not a stream >.>

Zachary T

@xkcd, wondering if that's a user.

Destructible Lemon

I need to learn how to make online things some time

HyperNeutrino

still

better to not let it start

that's why i'm not too picky, and still replied, but still.

why did this place suddenly go quiet o0

Zachary T

1:44 AM

4 minutes.

Isn't long

HyperNeutrino

gasp since when did I pass you in rep, @NathanMerrill? :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Reversi king-of-the-hill (need 15 char title) This would be a king of the hill about reversi. Yep. I'm going to write up the post and controller later, but I'm putting this here so show the idea is taken ;) Wikipedia

HyperNeutrino

Considering TNB used to freeze long long ago, 4 minutes isn't long. but I was anticipating someone replying to my messages in some sort :P

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino We did, with silence

HyperNeutrino

o0

is that bad

Zachary T

1:47 AM

Do you think TNB will ever freeze again?

HyperNeutrino

No.

I don't think that will ever happen.

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino Let's do it

@HyperNeutrino How long does it take to freeze a chatroom?

HyperNeutrino

CMC: Find the longest elapsed time between two consecutive chat messages out of the n most recent messages.

@StephenS 14 days.

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino OK nvm that's not happening

Destructible Lemon

@HyperNeutrino messages or challenges?

HyperNeutrino

1:48 AM

> chat messages

oh wait

I contradicted myself ><

there we go

Zachary T

Cや, I'm out of here.

(Cya)

Destructible Lemon

wow he knows japanese kana

/s

HyperNeutrino

bye o/

Stephen S

> Use 4-space indentation, and no tabs.

but that's so ungolfy

DJMcMayhem

@StephenS That's awesome! I did not put that there. If I had to guess, I bet it was wheatwizard

Stephen S

1:52 AM

@DJMcMayhem en.wikipedia.org/w/…

Wheat Wizard

I made some pretty drastic edits on this question:

18

Q: Find the Pisano Period

The Fibonacci sequence is a well know sequence in which each entry is the sum of the previous two and the first two entries are 1. If we take the modulo of each term by a constant the sequence will become periodic. For example if we took decided to compute the sequence mod 7 we would get the fo...

If anyone thinks they are out of line feel free to tell me or edit.

totallyhuman

Can you conjure wheat?

Stephen S

Why does Python want you to pass self to each method?

Wheat Wizard

No, thats a common misconception, I am a wheat.

Stephen S

Can't they just have it by default like this in Java?

Destructible Lemon

1:55 AM

um...

totallyhuman

Lemme find the good SO answer I read on that

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS because that way instance.function(parameters) works as well as Class.function(instance, parameters). It's kinda weird.

Destructible Lemon

not everything has to be like java

HyperNeutrino

You can pass this as the first parameter too.

Stephen S

@DestructibleLemon I know that's why I asked :P

Wheat Wizard

1:55 AM

@HyperNeutrino You can pass anything as the first parameter

totallyhuman

464

A: What is the purpose of self?

The reason you need to use self. is because Python does not use the @ syntax to refer to instance attributes. Python decided to do methods in a way that makes the instance to which the method belongs be passed automatically, but not received automatically: the first parameter of methods is the in...

HyperNeutrino

instance.function(p1, p2, ...) is identical to Class.function(instance, p1, p2, ...), so the first parameter is passed as the instance to your class function.

@WheatWizard not literally everything but yes, basically.

Wheat Wizard

What limitations are there? I guess it has to be a valid variable name, but is there anything besides?

Destructible Lemon

can't be the same as another argument :P

Stephen S

CMC: Find me the dumbest picture of a walking chicken that I can use as a profile pic

HyperNeutrino

1:57 AM

Please do not onebox them.

Stephen S

^^

totallyhuman

@WheatWizard so then what are your wizarding abilities?

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS this just looks dumb

Wheat Wizard

@totallyhuman I can make Brain-Flak shorter

HyperNeutrino

or copy Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard BrainFlak for -1 byte ;)

totallyhuman

2:00 AM

hmm that is very voodoo indeed

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS Remove Spaces, Maintaining Capitalization apparently was a good enough title on its own lol

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino I don't like it but Dennis switched it over and I guess it looks better on HNQ

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS Yes. It also describes the challenge better.

Destructible Lemon

idea for a challenge: take a library of babel index for a page, then interpret the page as bf, and take input and do output

totallyhuman

tfw you realize your language still doesn't have any conditional

Destructible Lemon

2:09 AM

my language has almost no conditionals

except for the old: push 1 if pop is not 0 else push 0

and jump things

Stephen S

@DestructibleLemon I saw that

Destructible Lemon

I made an edit, so what?

they aren't really gotos because they don't act immediately

nor do they act absolutely; they are relative

HyperNeutrino

sad-flak?

Destructible Lemon

yes

in Github Compiler Chain, 1 min ago, by ATaco

I'm a slippery taco.

HyperNeutrino

in Github Compiler Chain, 1 min ago, by ATaco

Don't take that out of context.

ಠ_ಠ

Destructible Lemon

2:13 AM

in Github Compiler Chain, 1 min ago, by Destructible Lemon

that makes as much sense in context though

Nathan Merrill

@HyperNeutrino have you seen my activity log?

HyperNeutrino

nope :P

oh hey I nuked 25 of your rep

sorry :I :P

ATaco

You nuked 64 of my rep

HyperNeutrino

both squares o.o

also you bounty more :P

ATaco

I've bountied like, twice.

Nathan Merrill

2:15 AM

I've only bountied once I think

that was for the best-of, and was a 500 bounty :)

HyperNeutrino

s/1/6/

50*2, 100*3, 500

I've only bountied 4 times for a total of 350

it doesn't show up on my profile

damn

did I not lose the rep I awarded for bounties?

wait so did I just get 350 free rep after undeletion :o

>< now i feel like i cheated the system ~~again~~

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino It probably got taken out of the old account's rep before you received the rep from merging

HyperNeutrino

@Mego hopefully, yes

The bounties now belong to Community⋄ though :P

Stephen S

> it’s your problem if the file is twice as large as your machine’s memory

Destructible Lemon

@StephenS classic python docs

Stephen S

2:33 AM

@HyperNeutrino OK, docs are done, now it's time to go to bed 0.o guess I'll write that interpreter this weekend or something

HyperNeutrino

@StephenS cool, can i see docs?

Stephen S

@HyperNeutrino Sorry, Python docs xD

HyperNeutrino

oh :P ok

cya! o/

Phoenix

I have to install Windows on my laptop for an internship which will require me to use Visual Studio. I wouldn't mind, by this is my third time installing Windows today.

HyperNeutrino

>.< how is windows so bad, are you sure you're not being attacked by ongoing virus

Phoenix

2:35 AM

How did you get "How is windows so bad" from that statement.

HyperNeutrino

actually nvm

was it three times on the same computer?

Destructible Lemon

@HyperNeutrino 😂😂😂windows RESIGNED!!😂😂😂

HyperNeutrino

><

Phoenix

@HyperNeutrino No, this is the first time today on this laptop.

HyperNeutrino

anyway gtg, might come back in a bit

@Phoenix ah ok

Anonymous

2:38 AM

@StephenS To be fair, that's a problem with trying to read a file into memory in any language. At least Python has ways of dealing with that elegantly (making generators).

Phoenix

Te first time was earlier today on my desktop because it borked

ATaco

Microsoft makes me pointlessly angry.

how dare they make windows come with skype preinstalled.

Phoenix

@ATaco It's technically Skype Preview, which doesn't take up a lot of space, so I don't see what the issue is.

Anonymous

@Phoenix It's terribly slow and causes a decent hit to startup times

Phoenix

No one says you have to use it

Nathan Merrill

2:43 AM

store.steampowered.com/app/660880/b

startup times are still affected.

I agree, the amount of stuff I have to disable to get a clean system is rather annoying.

That said, I've tried switching many times, and I simply come back to windows for the UI

Anonymous

@Phoenix Sure, but when it starts with Windows startup and causes that to take longer, it's an issue. I don't mind bundled crapware so much, but at least don't force it to run on startup unless the user says so.

Nathan Merrill

especially when skype takes longer to boot up than windows

Destructible Lemon

@NathanMerrill the tags...

Nathan Merrill

There are so many gems on that page

Phoenix

As of right now, Skype is not running on my desktop, and I didn't explicitly close it or disable it as a startup task.

Destructible Lemon

2:50 AM

@NathanMerrill this is honestly the most compelling argument about getting windows

ATaco

I had to uninstall it, alongside Candy Crush.

Phoenix

I think Candy Crush is bloatware put on your system by the manufacturer, not Microsoft

ATaco

That's strange, seeming as I built the computer myself and bought and downloaded Windows from the microsoft store.

Phoenix

Well, I did the same thing and don't have any crap

I wonder why

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco buying windows -> paying for pain

2

ATaco

3:01 AM

I spent over $100 to be advertised to.

2

Phoenix

IDK, my Windows never seems to come with crap or ads or anything

ATaco

Which version are you using?

Phoenix

Windows 10 Pro

Riker

3:19 AM

@betseg I just hadn't seen you in a while, that's it

ATaco

@Phoenix Ah, I am using Home

ATaco

3:44 AM

CMC: Draw a taco. graphical-output popularity-contest

Conor O'Brien

I suppose that's one way to reverse a string

ATaco

i < 4/2

Conor O'Brien

yes, it's more idiomatic and extensible

Phoenix

3:57 AM

@ATaco wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taco+curve

HyperNeutrino

why on earth is that a thing :o

ATaco

God bless Mathematica, Builtin for everything.

Phoenix

4:15 AM

@ATaco The relevant Mathematica code is Entity["PopularCurve","TacoCurve"]

Destructible Lemon

@ATaco thats not really a builtin, its just some data someone put in when they were bored

Phoenix

@DestructibleLemon There are a lot of Entity["PopularCurve", x]s out there

Several hundred, in fact.

It's not "just some data"

HyperNeutrino

5:04 AM

Can anyone find any bugs/errors in this? It yields the incorrect output for the test case but seems to work on every individual component.

Destructible Lemon

5:27 AM

@HyperNeutrino < is a cannon and is different from /

HyperNeutrino

oh

that's what the "same as previous" meant

>.< thanks!

ATaco

> Two students, James and Tom, where asked by the teacher if "Had" or "Had had" works better in a particular sentence. James, while Tom had had "Had", had had "Had Had". "Had Had" had had a bigger impact on the teacher.

HyperNeutrino

> where

@DestructibleLemon Yup that fixed the issue; thanks!

Bash Quine: cat .code.tio proof of workingness totally not cheat

Destructible Lemon

5:46 AM

@HyperNeutrino <look of disapproval>

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