Language Overflow

6:06 PM

Like :

Simple past: She read a newspaper.

Past Progressive : She was reading a newspaper.

Perfect Past: She had read a newspaper.

Damkerng T.

Yep!

GforOevOerD

Thank you so much for caring and great answrers?

Thank you so much for caring and great answers!**

Damkerng T.

You're welcome!

IͶΔ

@GforOevOerD You can edit a chat message.

Hover over the message, then click the down arrow to the left and see actions.

Anonymous

@GforOevOerD I like the contrast between your name and the avatar you've chosen to represent yourself – one eternal, one ephemeral.

CowperKettle

6:21 PM

You're talking like a Japanese, Snails.

IͶΔ

You're talking like a Russian, Cowp.

CowperKettle

Well, I am Russian..

I mean, I read that it's part of the Japanese culture to admire ephemeral beauty.

> Nor shall my love avail you in your hour.
In spite of all my love, you will arise
Upon that day and wander down the air
Obscurely as the unattended flower

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. For your future use: §

Found it:

Um, thanks!

6:28 PM

Mono no aware (物の哀れ?), literally "the pathos of things", and also translated as "an empathy toward things", or "a sensitivity to ephemera", is a Japanese term for the awareness of impermanence (無常, mujō), or transience of things, and both a transient gentle sadness (or wistfulness) at their passing as well as a longer, deeper gentle sadness about this state being the reality of life. == Origins == The term was coined in the 18th century by the Edo period Japanese cultural scholar Motoori Norinaga and was originally a concept used in his literary criticism of The Tale of Genji, later applied to...

GforOevOerD

@IͶΔ Oh Thanks! I didn't know that!

Anonymous

Oh yeah, that's difficult to translate.

CowperKettle

The article mentions the author Ishiguro.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, well, you don't have to, it's just the section symbol they always use for referring to sections in CGEL :-)

CowperKettle

He has some great works.

Anonymous

6:29 PM

There are Wikipedia pages for a surprising number of difficult to translate terms.

Anonymous

Mottainai

Mottainai (もったいない, [mottainai]) is a Japanese term conveying a sense of regret concerning waste. The expression "Mottainai!" can be uttered alone as an exclamation when something useful, such as food or time, is wasted, meaning roughly "what a waste!" or "Don't waste." In addition to its primary sense of "wastefulness", the word is also used to mean "impious; irreverent" or "more than one deserves". Mottainai is an old Buddhist word, which has ties "with the Shinto idea that objects have souls." Mottainai has been referred to as a tradition, a cultural practice, and an idea which is still present...

CowperKettle

@snailboat Nice expression!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I guess I have to read a bit about § to be sure that I can use it properly.

Some say it's for chapter, some sections.

Anonymous

It's for sections. You'll notice the top of each right-side page in CGEL shows the current section number with the section symbol :-)

GforOevOerD

@snailboat Thank you, yes I'm kinda saying our lives can be faded away just as a flower's leaves all of a sudden by a weak wind. So we have to always be good to others because that time might be our last time.

3

Anonymous

6:31 PM

It's a double-S, and the 'S' stands for 'Section'.

Damkerng T.

A-ha! Hmm... so instead of CGEL 5:7.14, I should write CGEL Ch.5 §7.14, perhaps.

Anonymous

That would work! You don't have to, of course, but if you use the same conventions they use in the book themselves, I thought it might help people find them :-)

Anonymous

@GforOevOerD Ah, now I understand :-)

IͶΔ

@GforOevOerD :')

CowperKettle

> The human being is only a reed, the most feeble in nature; but this is a thinking reed. It isn't necessary for the entire universe to arm itself in order to crush him; a whiff of vapor, a taste of water, suffices to kill him. But when the universe crushes him, the human being becomes still more noble than that which kills him, because he knows that he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him. The universe, it does not have a clue.

> "All our dignity consists, then, in thought. This is the basis on which we must raise ourselves, and not space and time, which we would not know how to fill. Let us make it our task, then, to think well: here is the principle of morality.”

(Blaise Pascal)

IͶΔ

6:42 PM

So beautiful . . .

Anonymous

3

Anonymous

Just to spoil the mood. :-)

Damkerng T.

O, internet, my internet!

Why are you so slow?!

I know you're not that slow, but your DNS thing isn't working for me right now!

Anonymous

Maybe you can use 4.2.2.[1-6] or 8.8.4.4 or 8.8.8.8.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... it looks like it has a problem with only some websites.

2

Q: Why does United States gets article but not Japan?

Why does the name " United States " gets article? Like: He is from Japan He is from the United states But Japan doesn't get article. Why? Thanks

articles

I thought it was about legal articles at first!

IͶΔ

6:54 PM

@snailboat How true

GforOevOerD

@IͶΔ :P

@DamkerngT. It seems that we have to use article(or omit it) according to what the countries have officially introduced themselves.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

GforOevOerD

Although there are some rules like: Use The before republics, kingdoms and etc.

IͶΔ

Let these overcute pandas conquer your hearts CC @Gfor @Snail @Dam

Damkerng T.

Oh, you really meant that article.

IͶΔ

6:58 PM

Also there's some truth to that second comment.

GforOevOerD

@DamkerngT. Yes

@IͶΔ Pandas?

IͶΔ

Pandas.

Are you seeing monkeys, 'cause that would be a bug?

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ Had I told you that we used to have a 24x7 panda channel over here? :-)

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Nope. You even haven't told me.

Damkerng T.

I might misremember, but I thought you were in the room, too.

IͶΔ

7:09 PM

Sometimes my avatar is here.

Anonymous

@GforOevOerD Yeah, it's predictable most of the time, but not all of the time. It's lexical.

Anonymous

As a demonstration that it's arbitrary, compare the Ukraine with Ukraine.

Anonymous

It used to be usual to use an article with Ukraine, but we're not supposed to anymore.

Damkerng T.

The channel was solely for this panda: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Bing

CowperKettle

@snailboat Because "Ukraine" used to mean "outskirts" (of the Russian Empire)

Cognate with the Russian word krai (border, rim)

GforOevOerD

7:17 PM

@snailboat Thanks for the nice info

CowperKettle

Parts of it were also called "Malorossia", meaning "little Russia"

Little Russia

Little Russia, sometimes Little Rus’ (Russian: Малая Русь or Малороссия; Ukrainian: Мала Русь or Rus' Minor from Greek: Μικρὰ Ῥωσία), is a geographical and historical term of Russian origin for a territory of Cossack Hetmanate after its annexation by Tsardom of Muscovy and transformation of the Cossack Hetmanate into the Little Russia Governorate in 1764. At the same time Kyrylo Rozumovsky was forced to resign as the Hetman of Zaporizhian Host. The Little Russia Governorate was administered by the Collegium of Little Russia headed by Pyotr Rumyantsev. The purpose of the Collegium of Little Russia...

Name of Ukraine

The name "Ukraine" (Ukrainian: Україна Ukrayina [ukrɑˈjinɑ]) literally means "on the border", "near the border", or "around the border". It was first used used to define part of the territory of Kievan Rus' in the 12th century. "U" meaning "within" and "kraij" meaning "border". The name has been used in a variety of ways since the twelfth century. Today, it is the official name of Ukraine, the country in Eastern Europe. Traditional use in Russian utilizes prepositions "on" or "off": for example, "I am on/off Ukraine" as opposed to "I am in/from Ukraine". This distinction arises from the nam...

The traditional and standard usage in Russia is on

"On Ukraine" like "on the border".

> This version is supported by the fact that in some medieval Latin maps and documents, the word Ukraine is explained or translated as Marginalia.

(I'll lurk some)

Damkerng T.

I suppose that it should be in Ukraine in English.

CowperKettle

Yes, by all means. In Russian, "on" and "in" are used in regard to different countries. It could be an idiomaticity thing.

"On Ukraine" sounds better in Russian. Easier to pronounce.

"On Cuba". We don't say "In Cuba"

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

CowperKettle

Every language has its quirks, providing work for Quirks.

Damkerng T.

7:24 PM

Haha!

CowperKettle

(0:

Good night!

Damkerng T.

Good night!

GforOevOerD

@IͶΔ Where are they?

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle Night

@GforOevOerD Milky way galaxy

GforOevOerD

and the last one : "What had she done before Jack arrived there? She had cleaned his rooms"

@IͶΔ hahahhaa, I really don't know about pandas you're talking about.

IͶΔ

7:38 PM

@GforOevOerD Yes, perfectly acceptable.

GforOevOerD

@IͶΔ Thank you so much.

IͶΔ

Anytime

GforOevOerD

How do I improve my handwriting?

Anonymous

I guess you can identify problems with the letters after you've written them, and you can try to identify problems with the way you're physically writing, like if your hand is tenser than it needs to be.

Anonymous

I haven't really tried to teach anyone how to improve English handwriting before, but I've had to work on my own a lot.

GforOevOerD

7:50 PM

Thank you so much

Anonymous

Ah, I don't really feel like I've helped yet :-)

Damkerng T.

@GforOevOerD How do you write? Block or cursive?

Araucaria

Hey ho folks \O/

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Hi Damster

Damkerng T.

8:04 PM

^_^

Araucaria

@snailboat You could help me maybe?

@DamkerngT. :-)

@snailboat I need one more reopen vote here, if you feel it's worthy ..

3

A: 'Well' after: How to use 'well after' in a sentence?

It is hard to tell for certain which part of speech this usage of the well represents. If you search very hard in dictionaries, you may be able to find the correct definition of this word listed under its use as an adverb. However, what these dictionaries will not tell you is that this meaning of...

@snailboat You don't need to find it worthy, but if you do ...

I'd also like to know what you think of my latest thesis, which is that adjectives are the prototypical modifiers of prepositions ...

Although, you may not be interested, of course. I'm a preposition freak ...

Anonymous

@Araucaria I'm sorry, I already voted to reopen, so I can't cast the fifth vote :-(

Anonymous

in Japanese Language, 7 mins ago, by Darius Jahandarie

Hmm... do you have an example of a non-adversative get-passive? Nothing is coming to mind. It seems incompatible with good things *"I got helped by John" and if you use it with something neutral it seems to result in a negative implication "I got passed over during the selection process".

Araucaria

):28810586 No probs, just a punt :- )

Anonymous

English chat in the Japanese room :-)

Damkerng T.

8:14 PM

So desuka?

Omoshiroi ne

Araucaria

@snailboat I've just been reafing up. I think the Ukraine thing is because there is a geographical area called The Ukraine, like Amazon basin, for example, or the Congo. We normally use articles for such geographical areas ...

But we don't use articles for countries unless the name is restrictively modified in some way, like the United States, or the The People's Republic of China. So when national boundaries change and 'new' countries like Ukraine or Congo are formed, they don't like to be referred to as geographical areas any more ...

Damkerng T.

Should I trust this pronunciation?!

French pronunciation = noblesse oblige

►

GforOevOerD

@snailboat Thank you very much.

@DamkerngT. What is block?

@snailboat Actually you've helped so much! The best way is to correct yourself while writing.

Damkerng T.

8:32 PM

Some people write in block letters (i.e., mostly no letter joining). Some write in cursive.

in English Language Learners, Jan 10 '15 at 14:33, by Damkerng T.

Some of my examples.

#2 is in cursive, and #3 is in block.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Is that your own writing?

Damkerng T.

Yes

IͶΔ

No

@DamkerngT. Eww

:P

Damkerng T.

(ﾉ"＾◡＾)

IͶΔ

My handwriting is something not as squished as one and not as bureaucratic as three.

Damkerng T.

8:40 PM

@IͶΔ But not exactly in cursive, perhaps?

IͶΔ

Not a lot of curves. I'm either too young or too unartistic.

Damkerng T.

I think writing in block letters is the norm nowadays. I could be wrong, though.

IͶΔ

Young people usually have had less writing to just get done and do something more fun, so we haven't fought with letters sufficiently yet.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I write in block (otherwise I'm illegible). But most of the teachers I know write cursively when not writing on a board ..

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. I dunno about other people, but I value letters.

So I usually write them distinguishably and clearly, but not necessary blockily.

Damkerng T.

8:44 PM

@Araucaria I guess I mostly write in block on a whiteboard.

IͶΔ

Ja

Damkerng T.

The magic pen (or the marker) makes it easier to write in block faster than writing with a pen on paper.

@Araucaria #1 is supposed to be my "real" handwriting.

But I write less and less. Less enough that I don't feel like it's very real anymore.

IͶΔ

Luna is real!

Damkerng T.

Ah, I didn't mean Luna. I meant my own handwriting!

IͶΔ

Bah you photoshopper

Araucaria

8:53 PM

@DamkerngT. You don't have typically Thai handwriting at all! (Nearly all Thai students I know have block writing in English, btw)

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Oh! Interesting to hear that!

@Araucaria Most of them are in their 20-30, perhaps?

IͶΔ

@Araucaria Pro tip: A robot is always better than average humans

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. A majority, but not all by any means ...

@IͶΔ But Dam's writing is less robotic than most Thai students'

Damkerng T.

I see. I think the typical Thai handwriting (in Thai) changes every a decade or two.

Maybe it's related to our handwriting in English. :-)

IͶΔ

@Araucaria It's a cover. How else is he going to conquer humans?

Damkerng T.

8:56 PM

LOL

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Maybe. But older Thai studenst usually have the same handwriting. Neat, small, rounded letters, very vertical up and down strokes ...

IͶΔ

I think that's because of Thai.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ "As we like it", you mean. :D

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Oh, in Thai. I missed that bit ...

IͶΔ

The dudes' letters are so neat, it's like you've cleaned the dort with a vacuum.

Araucaria

8:57 PM

:)

IͶΔ

Dirt, dammit

Why did it autocorrect to dort?

Damkerng T.

How could I know?! <-- I was just thinking to myself, BTW.

Araucaria

If I have students from different countries in my class and they don't write their names on their work in class, I can normally hand all the work back to the right students even if I've never seen any of their writing before (not if they're from EUish countries though - probably too similar to UK writing for me to spot the differences)

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think most languages in the EU use the Latin script.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes, i's mostly a script thing probably. But I can very often tell Spanish Ss

Damkerng T.

9:01 PM

^An example of Thai handwriting from another generation before mine.

I wanted to have that kind of handwriting, but it's never been very close. Still, my Thai handwriting looks much closer to that than the typical one of the current generation.

Oh, that was from 2520 (BE year, which is 1977 AD). It was just like yesterday!

Hi, @Mrt! Welcome to the room!

GforOevOerD

@DamkerngT. Neither. I'd love to write like that.

Damkerng T.

Trump vs. Bernie in the First Ever (Comedy Central) -- If you close your eyes, you'll find that they sound really like the real candidates!

@GforOevOerD Oh, neither?! Hmm... how do you write, then?

GforOevOerD

9:18 PM

@DamkerngT. I write like this one I highlighted

postimg.org/image/otaglx6qb

I don't like my handwriting.

Damkerng T.

Cool! That's in block, too. It's just that it's all caps.

@GforOevOerD Oh!? Why not?

GforOevOerD

I don't write all caps

Well, I don't like that. Cursive and wavy is so classy and stylish.

Damkerng T.

I see! Well, there are some cursive handwriting practice books out there, I'm sure.

GforOevOerD

Would they help?

Damkerng T.

I think so. It depends on some other factors, like maybe how you hold your pen (or pencil), how comfortable you are with pens, and so on.

Anonymous

9:22 PM

Hello again! I ate food, and now I'm back.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yay! I'm happy for your stomach!

GforOevOerD

@snailboat Hello good to see you

Damkerng T.

Maybe there are some sites that teach you how to write in cursive for free, even!

Anonymous

Sᴏᴍᴇᴛɪᴍᴇs ᴡʜᴇɴ ᴘᴇᴏᴘʟᴇ sᴀʏ "ʙʟᴏᴄᴋ ᴡʀɪᴛɪɴɢ", ᴛʜᴇʏ ᴍᴇᴀɴ ᴡʀɪᴛɪɴɢ ʟᴇᴛᴛᴇʀs ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴛʜᴇsᴇ ʙʏ ʜᴀɴᴅ.

Anonymous

It can be easier to read, sometimes.

Anonymous

9:25 PM

@DamkerngT. I love writing with gel pens!

Damkerng T.

I feel like the emphasis is on sometimes. :D

@snailboat Gel pens are handy, right?!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, in my mind that's the normal meaning, and people who use it the other way are the exception. But I don't know how widespread my way of thinking is.

Anonymous

I talk about cursive and print to distinguish letters that are joined up or not joined up.

Anonymous

I think British English speakers talk about joined up writing :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ah, I meant the part "easier to read". :-)

Anonymous

9:28 PM

@DamkerngT. Oh! I see.

Anonymous

I think it's generally easier to read in handwriting if it's neat.

Anonymous

But typewritten, I think small caps are usually harder to read.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

I only learned recently that some people don't consider non-cursive letters to be "handwriting".

Anonymous

So now I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to talk about these things :-)

Damkerng T.

9:29 PM

"You're not making an A unless your A looks like this: A!" they said. :P

Anonymous

@Araucaria I feel like there's some logic to be discovered in pretty much every case, but from a learner's perspective I wonder if it's not just easier to memorize them without learning how they came to be that way.

Anonymous

I don't know. I've come to remember a lot of things by learning the history behind them.

Anonymous

I think there's a question on English.SE about why we say The Hague, too.

Damkerng T.

1

Q: Troubles with black american slang

I stuck with some troubles. I've just watching videos on YouTube and found Trevor Noah on "Naw Mean?". That guy make a parody of black American slang, and I can't even recognize what he says. Could someone make kind of transcript of that 30-second slang part starting from about 25th second and ex...

american-english slang

I'm not sure if it's worth saving or if we could save it.

If the OP can't make out anything at all (which I don't think is true), a transcription wouldn't help his learning much, IMHO. At least not now.

Araucaria

@snailboat Yes, I agree. But with the countires thing, it's something that native speakers aren't really aware of, and you can really offend people by accident if you refer to their country as "The X" instead of "X" - as I found out to my peril ... :(

Damkerng T.

9:36 PM

Oh, BTW! @Araucaria, @snailboat, what do you think about my Puzzle of the Day?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. What's that?

Damkerng T.

This one!

yesterday, by Damkerng T.

20160406 Puzzle of the Day (Can you tell which is 'every day' and which is 'everyday'?): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8KKQ0fwLEZ9OHhoaWxqa1F2aHc/view?usp=sharing

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I'll have to wait till tomorrow, unfortunately. Don't have any headphones and am in the pub, erm, trying to write my PhD thesis ... (pretending to try anyhow)

Damkerng T.

Got it. TIA, anyway!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. TIA?

Damkerng T.

9:41 PM

"Thanks in advance"

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Your welcome in advance! Will be a nice experiment.

Damkerng T.

:D

Araucaria

Got to pretend a bit harder. Am off. See you all peeps.

:D

Damkerng T.

See you! o/

Araucaria

O/

\O

Damkerng T.

9:42 PM

\o/

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Make it forced choice. Everyone has to pick one or the other for all six. Don't tell anyone the answers until you get a bunch of responses :-)

Damkerng T.

A-ha! I see! Thanks for the advice!

BTW, there are eight of them in the clip.

Anonymous

I think it's hard without context because you can't hear the rhythm of the surrounding words.

Anonymous

Oops! Eight is the new six.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

@snailboat nods -- When I play it after I spliced them together, I find it much difficult to tell! But I guess it could be different and probably easier for native speakers.

GforOevOerD

9:50 PM

@DamkerngT. @snailboat Thanks for info guys.

Damkerng T.

My pleasure! -- BTW, I just ran into this site. One moment...

activityvillage.co.uk/handwriting-practice-cursive-2

That's how I used to practice my handwriting!

GforOevOerD

@DamkerngT. Oh they are really helpful! I will print and work with them

@DamkerngT. wow!

Damkerng T.

Not exactly that sheet, but something very similar. (^_^)

GforOevOerD

How long did it take to turn your handwriting into that amazing picture?

Damkerng T.

I don't know! It was a long time. I changed my handwriting a couple times.

It used to be cursive. Then block (mixed-case). Then something that suits my needs. :-)

GforOevOerD

9:56 PM

I see

Thanks

Damkerng T.

No problem. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think Latin letters written by Japanese speakers tend to be distinctive. I'm not sure exactly what's different about them, though.

Damkerng T.

I think most Thai handwriting by the generation before the current generation in their universities has some quality of Japanese in it. :-)

Especially if it belongs to a young lady. (^_^)

^A typical handwriting style (it's actually a font) from 10 years ago. ( ＾◡＾)

Anonymous

10:17 PM

Oh, that's cute!

Anonymous

It does look like a handwriting font.

Damkerng T.

That's why I think it has the "kawaii" quality in it! :D

Anonymous

I like あずきフォント:

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

Oh! I guess the two fonts can go together quite well!

Anonymous

10:19 PM

I use うずらフォント more, but this one has cute Latin letters :-)

Damkerng T.

I like the two little birds down there. :D

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ugh! 403 Forbidden!

Anonymous

Oh no!

Damkerng T.

10:23 PM

Same!

Oh, outline strokes!

They're the same font, right?

Anonymous

It's supposed to make you think of cherry blossom petals.

Anonymous

Yes :-)

Damkerng T.

A-ha!

Anonymous

I thought it was a cute font.

Damkerng T.

They're all cute fonts!

Anonymous

10:26 PM

There are lots of cute Japanese fonts! :-)

Damkerng T.

There is another handwritten Thai font, with a humorous font name, lit. meaning ~ "very popular". :-)

Anonymous

in Language Learning, 3 hours ago, by IͶΔ

@Gilles Snailboat believes this site will degrade into POB crap.

Anonymous

@IͶΔ I didn't quite say that! :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I like that!

Damkerng T.

มหานิยม ~ "very popular" -- รุ่นเบ๊าเบา ~ "light-light version"

Anonymous

10:29 PM

Light-light?

Damkerng T.

It's supposed to mean "very light", but the way they (he?) spelled it makes it sound like it was done affectedly on purpose. :-)

Think of it like a lite version of software.

@snailboat I don't think you said that!

Anonymous

I kind of wish I could see what kinds of questions are coming up on the Language Learning private beta without actually committing to participate.

Anonymous

Did you sign up, @DamkerngT.?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yes, but I haven't participated much.

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