Language Overflow

8:40 AM

@snailboat (ﾉ"＾◡＾)

9:20 AM

Oooh, noone here.

@Araucaria I doubt that

Although I'm not one.

A: What is the meaning of using V3 after 'of'?

Will drop this off in case anyone wants to kick my grammar butt:

0

Prepositions and -ing forms: Many prepositions take noun phrases as Complements, for example the preposition of: I'm scared of spiders. In the sentence above, we see the noun phrase spiders occurring as the Complement of the preposition. When we want to use a verb (technically a clause) as t...

@IͶΔ Hi there o/

\o

@IͶΔ You are not one of the people who is not here?

Or you're one of the poeple who aint not here?

That's a cross-post from EL&U.

Or was it migrated?

Oh wait.

It's on EL&U.

reads

9:22 AM

@Araucaria A mixture of the two.

@JohnClifford Yes, it is. I reckon I need vetting by peeps here, as I have no butt-kickers over there ...

I'm Schrodinger's presence.

@IͶΔ y u a e a s h o d n e s c t?

@IͶΔ y u_a e_a_s h o d n e s _c t?

N o o o, I' h s p e e c .

I can't see any problems with what you've said, Araucaria.

9:26 AM

@JohnClifford Cheers John!

@IͶΔ Y o_a e_i_s i i ?

@JohnClifford Is that you what upvoted me?

I don't think I did, I was planning on doing so but haven't yet.

Now I have.

@JohnClifford Don't, you can't buut-kick/proofread and upvote, it's too much!

I'm tired of Bob getting all the best jobs too. That asshole is always first up for promotion.

@JohnClifford He's moonlighting at your place too?

Yeah. :(

9:41 AM

@JohnClifford By the moon, that's too much!

May justice be with you.

Haha!

@JohnClifford Which Bob?

@IͶΔ You don't know Bob? Man, everyone knows Bob.

He's, like...Bob, man.

Bob.

@JohnClifford Maybe because I'm cooler?

9:48 AM

Well that goes without saying.

@AlanCarmack. The difference there is that every day and everyday do actually sound different: they have quite different stress patterns. — TRiG yesterday

Hmm... do they really sound that different in normal real speech?

Yeah, they do.

When it's not an emphasized part, too?

"every day" has a noticeable pause between the words, whereas "everyday" is kind of pronounced as one single word. The Y sound in the latter isn't stressed as much, so it becomes almost "everiday".

I mean, they can sound different, but do they always sound different?

9:52 AM

Hey, what's this little guy doing?

I think there may be some regions or dialects where they sound pretty much the same.

And how often would they sound different?

@IͶΔ Ah, the guy looks more like that guy on the Vi book cover than a cat!

In pretty much every case I'm aware of they sound different, Dam.

@JohnClifford That's something I think is very interesting! -- put it in my to look out for box!

Anonymous

Well, I'd expect them to sound different.

Anonymous

9:54 AM

Check an audio corpus if you want to see how they sound.

Anonymous

The hypothesis is that they're usually distinguishable, and you can test that hypothesis if you've got the time :-)

user62015

@DamkerngT.Hi

Anonymous

Native speaker intuition about how we pronounce things isn't always the same as how we actually pronounce them.

That's a very good point.

@user62015 Hi!

user62015

9:58 AM

If you to talk to her on this sensitive matter(A)/ it is probable(B)/ that she will not listen to you at all.(C)/ No error (D), section A is wrong, right?

Seems to be missing a "were".

@user62015 Error in A.

Seems to have an extra "to".

Actually, that would require would.

Yeah, take out the first "to".

Agree with MAR and John Clifford, given that you didn't make a typo.

user62015

Thanks.@DamkerngT. @IͶΔ @JohnClifford

10:00 AM

Argh! It's not easy to hunt for a word in an audio corpus.

(Well, TV News isn't exactly a corpus, I know! :-)

Q: Can healthy be use in every circumstances in stead of healthful?

It's a corpse.

Anonymous

@Araucaria Your answer looks good :-)

Anonymous

1

From what I found, healthy can have the meaning of healthful, moreover the Oxford dictionary consider them as synonyms since 1552 (according to an unverified source). However, there still seems to be a big fuss about healthy being used in place of healthful. I did not know about healthful until ...

word-usage

Woo, someone who looked for other answers before posting!

Anonymous

My mother made me follow the prescriptive rule for using healthy and healthful when I was little. It didn't stick, though.

10:06 AM

I don't think I've ever used healthful in a conversation.

Anonymous

My mother certainly has :-)

Anonymous

I don't think I really ever say healthful.

I guess one day someone will write a book telling learners that using healthful is wrong. :P

Anonymous

Just to note that what you're looking for is akin to "healthy" vs. "healthful" in English, and a large percentage of English speakers incorrectly use the former when they really mean the latter. AND IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!! — istrasci 19 hours ago

Anonymous

Pretty sure this comment inspired the question.

10:08 AM

Ahh

I've always thought of them as synonymous to be honest.

I just think healthy sounds more natural.

The thf sound doesn't roll so nicely off the tongue.

BTW, anyone think my example of Britain's Got Talent sounds quite like Thailand?

17 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8KKQ0fwLEZ9ZGlLQVNkZnY4cVE/view?usp=sharing

Anonymous

I heard talent clearly, but expectation influences perception, and it wasn't a blind test.

nods -- Thanks for the feedback anyway. :D

Anonymous

I can see how you'd find them similar, though :-)

10:15 AM

@snailboat What I find interesting is when someone tells you something sounds a certain way - say, someone telling you about a mondegreen in a song - and it sounds like that when you hear it next only because they told you about it.

I can no longer listen to Unapologetic by Halestorm without hearing "I'm on a private jet" in the chorus instead of "I'm unapologetic". XD

Haha!

Anonymous

Yeah, we have this illusion that our perception is conscious access to raw input, but it's really heavily processed by the time we have conscious access to it.

Concrete jungle wet dream tomato

Peter Kay did a funny bit of stand-up on this very thing.

Anonymous

►

2

LOLROTF!

skill patrol

10:21 AM

:O

@snailboat LOL

Darn, I can't unhear it now.

"No one knows what it's like to be the Batman" -- I think this is exactly like in a Batman (2D animation) movie that some "Batman"s sound really like "bad man".

@snailboat Thanks. Fard, MFI and you guys made me realise that I definitely need peeps to kick my butt. :-)

Now I wish I could edit my 'sounds' to 'sound' because it got a star, but nvm...

It was a good jaw exercise, these misheard lyrics videos!

I think what fascinates me the most is when you're listening to a song you've heard many times before and then listen to it while the new lyrics are being shown as captions, and you still hear is the way those lyrics are written (as in the example above).

10:31 AM

@DamkerngT. I'd expect everyday to sound like this. BOM bom bom, but I'd expect every day to be either BOM bom BOM or bom bom BOM depending on whether *every had any stress or not.

Possibly because you're concentrating on parsing the words, so you hear them as well?

Anonymous

@JohnClifford You integrate information from multiple senses. See the McGurk effect for a classic illustration.

@Araucaria Thanks! I wasn't sure how I should describe the difference (though I was sure that every day could easily be heard as two words). I'll look out for the patterns when I hear them again.

Anonymous

And in general expectation influences perception.

@DamkerngT. But we'd need to bear in mind that the BOMs there are not necessarily longer, they just carry a rhythmic beat. The day in everyday will still be longer than the e at the beginning, I think ...

@snailboat Yes, that's very true.

10:35 AM

@JohnClifford Have you tried that test that has words like "orange" in blue, "red" in cyan, and so on? It's weird. :D

@snailboat I think if you hear it wrong though, your perception will often be quite accurate. I think if you had an everyday swim it would sound very odd. But if you had swim every day it wouldn't make you feel odd. What d'you think?

I'd consider an everyday swim as a decidedly pedestrian dip much like any other I'd taken.

@JohnClifford Yes, zackly

Ah, my wish was granted! Thanks! @snailboat

@Snail is the robot fairy.

10:42 AM

( ＾◡＾) ♫〜♪

Anonymous

@Araucaria The last few things I said were directed at John Clifford and weren't really intended to be relevant to the discussion of everyday versus every day. On that topic, I think I basically agree with you. They seem like they should be distinct, and your example does sound like it'd be weird.

Anonymous

Sorry for talking about two things at the same time :-)

@snailboat I think your point's very important in general with pron though. What we think we do and what we do do are often very different. (Could I have fitted any more dos in that sentence?)

Anonymous

That's why it's fun to test our hypotheses! :-)

@snailboat In fact, maybe that's the first thing we need to know about studying pron

@snailboat zackerly so :-)

Anonymous

10:47 AM

Yeah, I found phonetics to be a deeply counterintuitive subject.

@snailboat Did you see the question on EL&U about a word for a rule that is usually not enforced but occasionally will be at the whim of the rulemaker?

Anonymous

We seem to think of everything in terms of careful pronunciation intuitively, as though we're stringing citation forms together, sometimes with a dash of orthographic influence. Intuition can be very confused :-)

Anonymous

@JohnClifford I actually have single-word-requests on ignore so I only see them if someone links me to them.

@JohnClifford Double standard is almost like a Thai word now.

I mean, we use it so often that it may be as common as "gas" or "football".

Q: Word for when someone enforces a rule on some occassions but not others

2

If you have a set of rules that no one follows due to lack of enforcement, but on rare occasions when a rule is broken, out of convenience for the rule maker, they enact discipline for breaking that rule?

meaning single-word-requests meaning-in-context

I'm curious as to your input on it, since I seem to be getting a fair bit of pushback on "double standard" not being appropriate.

Anonymous

10:52 AM

Dunno, I ran out of brain to brain with tonight.

Okay, I will knock on your door again when you can once again brain and have sufficient brain to brain with.

Argh! Time flies!

Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

Anonymous

And linguists like ambiguity more than most people.

:)

What you did there, I see it.

word-meaning abbreviations dictionaries

11:02 AM

0

Q: SB and STH in dictionaries

tell sb to do sth (Cambridge Learner's Dictionary) When I look in dictionaries, I often see the words sb and sth. Are these proper words? What do they mean? Can I use these words in my essays, for example? Can I use these words in my posts on Stack Exchange?

Got to be a whole load of rep points for a good answer with that one ...

Hint, hint ...

Sounds like somebody should do something with that.

Surely you already know the answer to that though, @Araucaria.

@JohnClifford Yes, but people keep on telling off poster's for using these in their questions and saying. "Sb doesn't mean anything. What do you think 'sb' means. It doesn't mean anything Please use real words." It's a public service Q!!

That's what I thought.

Anonymous

Clearly sb is either StoneyB or SnailBoat.

@snailboat Of course ... Who is sth though?

@snailboat Maybe sth is Shin?

11:24 AM

OMG! What's inside?

Really tough and interesting question just got turned back to SE here, unfortunately ...

-2

Q: A grammatical question

Which sentence is grammatically correct? 1-The fire finally got under control. 2-the fire finally was got under control.

grammar passive-voice

@Araucaria It's tough to explain, but it's certainly an ELL question.

Per the very definition, it's a question a native speaker wouldn't need.

@IͶΔ Maybe, but a linguist or language enthusiast would find it an interesting and worthwhile puzzle though

Yes. The two ends of the spectrum.

So it got kicked out of the middle.

Maybe you could throw it to the other side of the spectrum?

@IͶΔ I think that it got a (well deserved) 'not explained enough' reaction. But the rejection wasn't well thought through. It's clear that it's confusing and difficult to put your finger on.

@IͶΔ It's gone back over to the dark side. Get passives are tough!

Shadow Wizard

11:32 AM

@Dam bot >> coffee

See y'all!

See ya!

@Araucaria \o

11:56 AM

"A grammatical question" wow, such a descriptive title.

Q: Can someone who has time to waste do this worksheet

in The Periodic Table, Sep 8 '15 at 21:52, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

-1

If anyone has time please do this worksheet http://www.chemisme.com/uploads/4/7/1/4/4714460/pes_2.pdf?

electrochemistry spectroscopy

Was already removed by the time I opened it. :P

It's from Sep '15.

It was standing at -11 when deleted.

With some funny comments.

Funny comments are best comments.

12:11 PM

CC @Dam @Snail

Organic phone case

Q: What's wrong with "Most people in the country would like to own their house some day."

12:58 PM

Argh!

@ShadowWizard [coffee] (an hour late :-)

@Araucaria I just want to inform you that you just used them in your post on SE!

22

The following is a problem from my textbook. The following sentence has an error. Find it and correct it. (1)[Most people] in the country (2)[would like] to own (3)[their house] (4)[some day]. It seems to me that there is no error in the sentence. Could anyone help me?

grammar

The opinions are still divided!

@DamkerngT. Ha ha!

:D

Shadow Wizard

1:15 PM

@DamkerngT. sipping happily

:D

2:18 PM

@DamkerngT. That frigging question

I just realized tags are of no use in ELL, as we seem to allow any question come in.

A: Well after: How to use well after in a sentence?

0

It is hard to tel for certain which part of speech this usage of the well represents. If you search very hard in dictionaries, you may be able to find the correct definition of this word listed under its use as an adverb. However, what these dictionaries will not tell you is that this meaning of ...

@Araucaria *Hard to tell

2:36 PM

@IͶΔ Yes, they seem to have something in common with "flat adverbs" ... except they often can't be used as adverbs!

@Araucaria Huh? I meant you haz a typoz.

@IͶΔ Oh thanks @IͶΔ. Let me have a lookk!!!

@IͶΔ Cheers old bean! Sorted.

(づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

3:01 PM

@JohnClifford I edited that question that you (completely correctly) close-voted on EL&U. Any chance of a reopen vote from you after the edit? It's here

@IͶΔ Do you have reopen votes on EL&U?

3:20 PM

I'll take a look.

Okay, you have my axe.

votes to reopen

@JohnClifford Cheers old bean /red dog

3:39 PM

Original:

> Well after: How to use well after in a sentence?
She waited till well after midnight?!! What does "well after" signify here?!!

That's a dictionary question! macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/well_1

We shouldn't recommend a dictionary made for native speakers to a learner, imho.

@DamkerngT. No, I agree. I was pointing out you need to be lucky with which dictionary you go to. But the question now asks more than just the meaning. From a learner's point of view though, the main thing you need to know is that we only use it with prepositions

Also, strangely enough, Macmillan Dictionary is, imo, the best learner's dictionary even though it doesn't have "Learner's" in its name!

@DamkerngT. I haven't looked at McM much ...

@Araucaria That's fair. Still, it's a trivial matter.

@Araucaria Better than what people think really good ones, imho.

@DamkerngT. Huh? If you try and use that as a normal adverb your sentences will be completely ungrammatical!!

It was well far

It was well bad

It was dead good

3:44 PM

@Araucaria No, I mean to understand well after/before.

@DamkerngT. Oh yeah, I agree ...

If the OP gives you lemons! ;-)

Make OP-nade!

2

Nice one!

@JohnClifford Ha!

Samsung Smart Refrigerator (with Wi-Fi) at CES 2014

►

This is so old. I guess some of us may already have it in our kitchens.

"Mom, I wanna watch TV." "Go watch it in the kitchen."

Hmm... wait, nobody watches anything on TV anymore, perhaps...

A: The significance of the preposition "From" in the given sentence, and the difference between the given sentences

4:51 PM

@snailboat Funny! (0:

Man_From_India

5:13 PM

What do you think of it?

0

I will address this question putting aside the debate whether to end a sentence with a preposition or not. It's an old debate, and pretty much everybody have a perception as to what is correct, and what is incorrect. But this question has more to it than just the issue of ending a sentence with a...

By the way, @IͶΔ, our Chemical Technology Institue currently has one student from Iran.

(0:

There's an English language-based Chemistry Biotech program, as far as I know.

So welcome to Yekaterinburg.

Found it: Master's Degree in Food Biotechnology - one guy from Iran, another guy from Rwanda.

It's under the aegis of the Chemical Institute

And the curriculum is like 70% chemistry.

Ahmad

6:23 PM

Hi

what is your feeling when you hear "selfreading"

I am about to use it for a website

thanks

Q: Why do experts recommend learning Esperanto?

6:34 PM

Self-reading is an existing word.

I guess you want it to mean something like "screen reader" or "auto-read".

2

As a constructed language, Esperanto isn't spoken natively by any one. Yet some linguists, language teachers, and SLA-advocates encourage learning Esperanto. Why? What are the primary reasons that these experts recommend learning Esperanto?

esperanto

I wonder which is greater, between the number of experts who are for and those who are against learning Esperanto.

6:48 PM

20160406 Puzzle of the Day (Can you tell which is 'every day' and which is 'everyday'?): drive.google.com/file/d/0B8KKQ0fwLEZ9OHhoaWxqa1F2aHc/…

7:07 PM

@DamkerngT. Nope.

Good evening, and good night!

yawns

We have rain, and +4C. At least the snow is going away fast.

But the last snowfall .. it's still a couple of weeks to the last snowfall of the year. (0:

A: 2 men are standing up over the ground (They face 2 opposite direction), what's the english?

Good night!

3

The usual English phrase would be "Back to back". As in "Richard stood back to back with the unknown Spartan and prepared to fight the shared enemies that surrounded them". This image is captioned as "Fighting back to back" It's simply a literal description of the position of having their ba...

@Catija I thought I was on the wrong site! :P

Why, because I posted an answer?

That's my second one today... I think... maybe third?

@Catija Not that. Because of the illus. :D

Ah. Gotcha. :D

I figured that, since the OP included art, I would too.

The OP's illus is also cute! :D

7:20 PM

It is! I was just telling Stephie that in the Cooking chat.

Hehe!

Talking about the Cooking chat. I was thinking of you when I read this question yesterday: single-word noun for a piece of cake which has no toppings on it?

I thought of a "blank cake" at first, but after reading the comments, I think maybe I was wrong, because it's "a piece of cake".

(Which makes me unsure what the OP really wants)

(A "plain cake" sounds like a good solution, though.)

I guess it depends on what is meant by "without toppings"... I'd say "unfrosted cake", personally.

Or, "May I have a piece of cake without any frosting".

Neat! I was sure that people who know how to cook and bake would have a better word for it!

It's problematic, though because it's impossible to get a slice that's unfrosted if the cake is already completed... so I'm not certain what is meant by "toppings".

Me either! I wonder if his "a piece of cake" is a whole cake, even. But I'm guessing that it may be something like a cupcake.

7:32 PM

Yeah. When I make cupcakes I often leave some unfrosted for people who don't want the frosting.

You might also prepare some pure frosting for people who don't want the doughy part.

HA HA HA.

With a coupon for a free visit to an endocrinologist, of course.

(0:

Good night, Katya!

Night! :D

Goodnight!

Anonymous

7:56 PM

@DamkerngT. My first guess would be that most experts don't really care whether or not you learn Esperanto.

Anonymous

It's like asking linguists if you should learn to make clay figurines.

LOL

Anonymous

There's nothing wrong with it. It can even be fun! It just isn't in the same domain as learning a natural language.

Anonymous

I uncommitted from Language Learning at the last moment.

Oh! Aww...

Q: What is the difference of meaning between "conserve" and "save"?

10:49 PM

Does wearing a Cardigan sweater make you look old?

(I'm not even sure if I should capitalize Cardigan.)

3

While I was reading my assignment, I wandered that the difference of meaning between the word 'Conserve' and 'Save' because, in Korean, the meanings of the words are same. I want to know that.

meaning

... Conserve' and 'Save' because, in Korean, the meanings of the words are same. -- I really doubt that.

I'm not questioning the OP's ability in their first languages, but sometimes we can't see things clearly when we're already occupied by a context.

(or better yet, 'our minds', not just 'us')

It's really rare, IMHO, that two words will be freely used interchangeably.

When is not while, and they are not as.

A doctor is not always a physician, even though sometimes he (or she) is a medicine man (or woman).

3

Q: Is there any word to describe things we do regularly over and over again?

For example, when in our daily life we go to school, do our homework, go to the gym and then go to sleep, but all these things we do for a whole week. Repetitive things. Another example would be when two lovers spend too much time together, and fall into a pattern of always doing the same things...

word-usage word-request

"His life is humdrum"?

(The question was just bumped up.)

Anonymous

11:07 PM

@DamkerngT. Oh! Is it capitalized sometimes? I didn't know.

@snailboat I don't really know! I thought it was a name.

Anonymous

Well, it was originally.

(I just heard it in a late show.)

Anonymous

But so was Sandwich, and we don't go around eating Sandwiches. I mean, most of us don't.

Hmm... but I like sand witches more! :P

Anonymous

11:09 PM

@DamkerngT. I learned it as a common noun first: a cardigan.

Anonymous

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Anonymous

Too bad we can't look at the actual data and see where "a Cardigan" appears.

I see. I'll keep it in the lowercase next time. Thanks!

Anonymous

When you look at the Chicago Manual of Style, do you ever think it's weird how they refer to themselves in the third person? Chicago prefers this, Chicago prefers that.

Anonymous

I'm from Chicago (well, Chicagoland, anyway), and I don't remember the city expressing so many opinions about style.

11:12 PM

Hmm... no. But I've noticed that I seem to be more comfortable with personification than most English speakers would be.

Anonymous

I was just looking for something relevant to Sandwich and Cardigan. I found mention of Brussels (the city), but brussels sprouts (the food).