Language Overflow

8:19 AM

Good afternoon!

> This institute was established in 1920. Today it has 11 faculties at which over 800 students and 50 postgraduate students are studying.

"are studying" or "study", I wonder.

Hi, @skillpatrol!

@snailboat I would never have guessed!

Hello @CowperKettle

Related to snailboat's logo topic: theverge.com/2016/4/5/11367248/hp-new-logo-spectre-13

Hi, @CowperKettle, @skillpatrol!

I think I like are studying better. It could be a thousand next year.

Me too.

Good morning, @snailboat!

Really early morning?

8:42 AM

Is owning a house still fashionable in the US? It seems like people say that Millennials (Gen Y?) don't care much about "owning" anything.

(Just saw this What's wrong with “Most people in the country would like to own their house some day.”? came up again on the main page. This time, it makes me think that people from different demographics may read the sentence differently.)

Anonymous

I don't know if owning a home goes out of style so much as people are priced out.

Even after the last financial crisis? I thought we've been recovered.

Anonymous

Our house is worth seven figures, and it's not even an especially nice house, more of a "my first home" kind of deal.

Oops! Seven figures in US dollars!

You could buy a decent mansion over here with that money. ;-)

Anonymous

We did get it remodeled though, so it's not too bad. We have a nice kitchen :-)

8:50 AM

Kitchens are very important! :D

When I was look for my first house, I was so confused by pantry vs. kitchen.

(Condominium suits were ones of my options, too.)

Anonymous

It's nice, we've got a big main sink and a smaller prep sink in the center island, and they both have detachable faucet thingies you can aim and set to spray, and we've got a few different kinds of ovens (steam oven, convection), along with a hot plate, and some other neat stuff.

You're making me think of those kitchens I saw in cooking shows!

Anonymous

Two people can cook two different things at the same time without running into each other :-)

Wow!

I guess I could sleep in your kitchen. :P

Anonymous

It's pretty big, but it's got hardwood flooring, so that might not be super comfy.

Anonymous

8:56 AM

Oh, and we got a super quiet dishwasher. You can't even tell it's on unless you look for the red light. Although it doesn't always get stuff clean. They need to make dishwashers magic.

Anonymous

That's my main complaint about dishwashers, not being magical.

Ah, that's the opposite of my refrigerator. It almost always makes some rather loud noise.

Anonymous

I mic'ed my old fridge before I moved. Now that was one talkative fridge!

Anonymous

This one's not usually audible.

Anonymous

We got a pretty good fridge, fancy with air filtering and circulation, an ice maker and such, but it doesn't have a lot of freezer room.

8:59 AM

Ah, this is strange. It isn't making any noise right now! (I just went looking.)

Anonymous

I bet it cycles on and off.

It used to be quite normal until late last year.

Anonymous

My old one was so loud, I couldn't help but be aware of its cycling on and off.

But at the moment, it seems to be rather normal!

Anonymous

I was renting, though, so it didn't belong to me. I assume they replaced it when I moved.

9:00 AM

@snailboat Aww... I broke my ice maker. I mean, it still can make ice just fine, but I broke the fan that propels the ice cubes out of the freezer.

Anonymous

At my father's house when I was little, we had a freezer that had a tray inside, and an ice cube maker sat atop the tray, keeping it full. One day, though, it made ice cubes with screws in them, and then it never made ice cubes again.

Is your town like Los Angeles, that people would have large refrigerators because they don't do groceries very often?

(or so I heard)

Anonymous

Umm, I buy groceries literally every day.

@snailboat Oh, no! Not screws!

Anonymous

I don't keep a lot on hand.

9:03 AM

@snailboat Nice! I like it that way better!

Anonymous

My housemate uses probably ten to twenty times as much storage space for food.

Oh!

Anonymous

I don't use much space at all myself :-)

Anonymous

And I like buying fresh food.

And peppers!

Anonymous

9:05 AM

I bought 4 oz. of Thai peppers today!

Yay!

Anonymous

The store here is right near my house, but they don't have Thai peppers very often. Today was an exception!

Anonymous

I have to get them from the farmer's market down the street, usually.

Neat! I guess it's cheaper at the farmer's market.

Anonymous

Usually :-)

Anonymous

9:08 AM

And instead of getting the peppers in a little box, you can get the whole plant!

Oh, hmm... I think you can grow some, then! :D

I have a few in my garden!

Anonymous

I'm not very good at gardening yet.

Anonymous

My friend grows Thai peppers, though.

Anonymous

Our outdoor animals eat all of our plants :-)

BTW, all my lemon grasses died. :(

Anonymous

9:09 AM

Oh no!

They're not very tough, and I forgot to take care of them for about a week. They just died. -- sad

Anonymous

Aww.

Anonymous

We can't really water plants here right now.

Looking for some new lemon grasses... :-)

Anonymous

The things I tried to grow seem to have died.

Anonymous

9:11 AM

We're only allowed to water twice a week for fifteen minutes.

Given that the water is very limited in your city, I think it's not easy.

nods

Anonymous

It's rained enough for a bunch of weeds to spring up, though!

Hey, if I were there, I may start a dripping watering system business!

Anonymous

They control which kinds of things you can use to water plants.

Anonymous

And you can't capture rain water.

9:13 AM

Huh? That's a bit strange!

Anonymous

The water rights stuff is complicated.

I remember that in a basic laws class, the teacher taught us that anything directly below or above our land is ours.

(For example, if a neighbor has a mango tree, and the mango tree grows large enough to have some mango fruits in our land, we can have those fruits without asking for permission. :-)

I guess there must be a better preposition or a better way to phrase 'mango fruits in our land'.

Anonymous

I would usually say on our property, though since in this case it's actually above it, you could say over? Or maybe you could talk about crossing the property line.

All are better alternatives. Thanks!

Good afternoon, @snailboat!

@V.V. - was it you who liked my poetry quotations on Facebook? ^_^

@DamkerngT. But the tree feeds upon the resources of your neighbor. That's tricky.

9:29 AM

Perhaps laws are mostly conventions. :-)

(0:

@CowperKettle (ﾉ＾◡＾)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

Hey @Dam @Cowp @Snail, LL reached private beta!

Yep!

Yay!

Though some questions worry me.

Not the questions themselves, but 1. the fact that POB and not POB are very hard to distinguish.

And 2. Obvious POB's get comments like "OMFG HOW COULD THIS BE POB"

9:36 AM

I had a quick look, and decided to wait a few days to see where it goes.

But I haven't participated greatly in a private beta before.

Anonymous

I think most of the content on that site will probably be subjective and opinion-/experience-based rather than based on what science is out there.

Maybe it's supposed to be a skirmish.

BTW, I'm not quite sure I completely agree with this answer:

1

A: in/on the showcase

To take several of the comments and stitch them into a cohesive whole, here's a rule of thumb: If you can logically place something within the object you're referring to, place it in the showcase; if not, put it on the showcase. To illustrate, allow me to introduce an example showcase calle...

@snailboat Well, workplace is doing good.

9:37 AM

(It was linked to in a comment in a new question.)

@IͶΔ POB?

Primarily close reason.

Good afternoon!

Good!

Good afternoon!

9:41 AM

Answering Cop,yes.

(0:

V.V.

It's a small world.

IT'S A SMALL WORLD (Full Ride) Disneyland - POV SUPER HIGH QUALITY (1080p HD)

►

V.V.

Sorry, have to run, see you later.

See ya, @V.V.!

9:48 AM

o/

Cya later

user62015

10:00 AM

@DamkerngT. @skillpatrol Hi! 9. During his long lecture, he did not touch
......... the main topic.
(A) upon (B) on
(C) of (D) No Preposition
It says A and B both can be

Strange that they include both A and B in the choices.

Personally, I think D is fine, too.

Anonymous

10:20 AM

Although D is probably grammatical, it's probably not the best choice. I think it sounds inappropriately informal (and of course probably doesn't have the intended meaning).

I'd go for A because it pronounces nicely.

Anonymous

I like A too.

Somehow "touch upon" sounds like me spelling "the Internet" rather than "the internet".

(I had to fight my Autocorrect to spell "the intenet"!)

Anonymous

You're free to capitalize Internet!

Anonymous

You don't have to bow to the demands of the heathen uncapitalizers.

10:31 AM

But it's in the style guides now! :-)

10:44 AM

Word of the Day: matrimonial

(I just heard it as "metramonial" so I looked it up!)

Ahmad

11:03 AM

Hi

Low

11:45 AM

medium

Araucaria

@IͶΔ What's POB?

Primarily Opinion-based.

in Language Learning, 24 mins ago, by IͶΔ

OK OK, I'm looking for a bunch of people to discuss something.

@Arau @Snail @Dam @Cowp ^^^

Read up from there. It summarizes my concerns.

so i don't count?

You always count (more than one), but I wouldn't know if you were interested in the proposal.

Also some people take pings seriously.

blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/07/… could be a good start, but everyone is supposed to know about it, I think.

11:57 AM

That's always linked in the top of every private beta.

Did you read what I had to say @Dam?

Q: Software for learning pronunciation?

Yes

1

Is there some kind of program/app like Duolingo for learning pronunciation of the English language? With consistent use of English as a written medium, you cannot not get better (in most cases), but how to improve pronunciation without studying/reading phonetic notation?

pronunciation

Well, stuff like that never gets sorted out by a few general meta questions.

This could be a good question at Language Learning.

Maybe I'm overreacting, or providing the most challenging question ever.

Since I am a meta regular, but have never fully decided to participate in a beta, I'm afraid I might be.

@DamkerngT. Ja

@IͶΔ It takes time. I'm not sure who hold the mod positions right now. They could help guide the community.

12:00 PM

No one.

Dude, this site can't even walk.

It's one day old!

I thought every beta site has mods from day one.

Every public beta mayhaps.

Not every private beta.

I see.

They're modded by SE staff until something happens.

Q: Is there evidence behind the old saying of language educators: "Focus on your vocabulary first, then fix your grammar"?

1

This is a maxim that has been drilled into my head over several years of my Spanish teachers saying this, but is there really any truth to this statement? Is there any scientific research proving that you can have a longer and deeper conversation with someone if you have a strong vocabulary and a...

studies

Probably a "Spanish teachers'" thing.

12:08 PM

Hmm, that [studies] seems a lot like a tag I know on ELL. Just saying. :P

Argh, my newest typoes are pluralizings of things I shouldn't.

@Dam I wanna ask my first question on ELL.

Yay!

> Do learners with an L1 without articles have problems using them in an L2 with articles?

I'm not sure it's on-topic.

But it is about language learning, no?

I think it can be answered objectively on both sites.

LL, and?

Meta.LL? :P

Neither does guarantee an objective answer, though.

@IͶΔ LL and ELL. You mentioned ELL.

12:17 PM

Ooops

It would be on-topicker on LL, I think.

ELL should really start focusing on things.

@IͶΔ Probably.

A: Let's decide on what we should close as homework

@Dam read a nice answer from meta.chem:

3

The Problem As I See It I would argue that the underlying reason for the dynamics on the site leading to this question, as well as more than one other recent meta question (here and here too), is: The scope of the Chemistry.SE site is improperly defined. In some cases, the scope may be ill...

Q: Do learners with an L1 without articles have problems using them in an L2 with articles?

12:28 PM

@Dam posted!

0

Before learning English, I had acquired fluency in Persian and I'm a native speaker of Azeri Turkish. Neither language has articles, but I didn't find myself in trouble deciphering their usage in English; my intuition in using or not using them has been adequately accurate. However, on ELL, I've...

multiple-languages english articles

A: Difference between Functional and Functioning

1

Well, I don't know what you are getting at, but the sentence by itself doesn't make any sense. For one, "routes" are not machines and don't get old or stop functioning overtime, specially in today's world. Even if they do, the word "still" makes the sentence non-standard. Coming back to whether "...

I think they meant especially by specially.

Hmm.

I still dunno when to use which. :P

I think you have a factor that could make you stand out of many other learners.

Hmm, lemme guess . . . that I'm a chemical?

You seem to start leaning English relatively young, probably with a few teachers who are native speakers of English, and it's not your first second langauge.

12:34 PM

Nope, I haven't had a native speaker teacher.

Other than @Snailboat, I mean.

I'm not even sure if English is really my first second language, but I like to think so.

@IͶΔ Oh, hmm... that's interesting!

@DamkerngT. Oh, what are other candidates?

When did you start learning it again?

@IͶΔ Some say Southern Thai is another language.

Oo

h

You also know RoE. Some say it's another language.

RoE?

12:36 PM

RoboticEnglish

Heh!

No, really. Some linguists classify, say, Cantonese as a different language from Mandarin.

What if it is?

It would raise a question: what makes a language a language?

Hmm, dunno.

Enough distinguishable vocabulary is not enough.

English today is merely a salad of a bunch of languages I reckon.

Evidently. :-)

I wouldn't use "merely", though.

Gotta go. See you later! o/

12:42 PM

\o

12:56 PM

Giving it a bit more thought, I think it's too early to think of such things @Dam.

1:12 PM

> The language [Persian] has no grammatical gender or articles, but person and number distinctions are maintained. Nouns are marked for specificity: there is one marker in the singular and two in the plural. Objects of transitive verbs are marked by a suffix. The morphological features of Arabic words are preserved in loans, thus Persian shows "broken" plural formations, that is, a word may have two different plural forms.
http://www.iranchamber.com/literature/articles/persian_language.php#sthash.LQaQy4Jh.dpuf

> The Subject Definite Article the does not exist as a word in Turkish, but it does exist as an objective suffix.

> turkishlanguage.co.uk/defarts.htm

These kinds of things are absolutely absent in Far East languages.

(as far as I know)

(which I'm not that sure about :-)

@DamkerngT. Which suffix? O_o

I don't know. You can tell me whether the info on that page is correct.

Oh, they're right.

But it's pretty limited, and it's only in accusative sense.

You say that there is no articles in your native language but is there a specific mean to express the concept of (in)definiteness that is expressed by a(n)/the. For example Swedish does not always use articles but rather add a suffix to a noun to specify definiteness. — 駑馬十駕 6 mins ago

Having three fingers is better than having none. ;-)

@IͶΔ A-ha!

@駑馬十駕 This page tells me there are articles in Swedish. There isn't anything that specifies indefiniteness in Turkish, but we do have a suffix that functions like "the" in the accusative sense. Something similar marks indefiniteness in Persian, but I take it's a semantic argument, not a grammatical one. The indefinite "marker" is literally one. — IͶΔ 9 secs ago

1:54 PM

What is about as tempting as a hamburger, but healthier?

@DamkerngT. Cucumbers. I've eaten like, 10 cucumbers today.

Hah! I doubt if most young folks will think the same!

Well, what about real meat and real sauce?

I was thinking about a hamburger as a metaphor for language learning.

I mean, we wouldn't have the top bread, done with it, then go on to the first veggies layer, done with it, then the first cheese layer, done with it, then the meat, and so on.

We have all of them all at once.

Poor learner

1:58 PM

Sorry about the typo!

Just make it quick, don't leave bones.

Hehe!

Also slimmer ones have less fat, so they're healthier.

LOL

3:12 PM

Which number is the biggest? 1, 17, 68, 4, a billion, or zero?

Here is the answer:

> tvovermind.com/the-late-show/…

I agree that that zero is the biggest, BTW!

3:30 PM

Word of the Day: gumption

@DamkerngT. 42, some say

@IͶΔ 43 says, it's still too early!

A: Is there need for a migrate path to LL.SE?

3:47 PM

4

Stack Exchange does not open user migration paths to beta sites. They are expected to grow and decide what they want to be on their own terms. Source: Tim Post

Hah! I remember that we've got migrated questions from EL&U even before ELL's graduation.

Were all of them done by the mods?

Q: Does having two first languages make you more effective in learning second languages later?

Yes.

@Dam BTW:

20

Have there been any studies that study the effect of having two first languages (simultaneous bilingualism) on the capacity of learning second languages later?

simultaneous-bilingualism

Let's go learn some language.

I dunno, German?

I dipped into Japanese a bit, but I admit that I was too lazy. -- Bad robot!

Q: "Many people choose to work ........ the comfort ..........their home"

4:09 PM

0

Which ones should be filled in the blanks in the following sentence to make it grammatically correct? Many people choose to work ........ the comfort ..........their home. in, on, from, at, of I'd say : "Many people choose to work FOR the comfort AT/OF their home" But for is not among ...

prepositions exam-question

I wonder if we can say "Many people choose to work FROM the comfort of their home"

I think they wanted to work in the comfort from/of their home.

I can imagine the meaning of Many people choose to work FROM the comfort of their home, too!

4:21 PM

@CowperKettle Mais oui!

@DamkerngT. "From" would be incorrect here.

A: Have there been any studies into detrimental effects of language learning?

9

Yes, there have been studies showing some disadvantages. Bialystok (2008) notes that It is now well documented that bilinguals generally control a smaller vocabulary in each language than monolinguals (Oller and Eilers, 2002; Perani et al., 2003; Portocarrero, Burright and Donovick, 2007). ...

@Dam this might account for some of the trouble we have in vocabulary.

@Catija nods -- Thanks!

The colors in here now are so spring-y and bright :D It's like a robin's egg.

Robin egg blue

The color robin egg blue is displayed at right. It is a web-safe color and an official Crayola color. In the early 1990s, the crayon was originally included unlabeled in Crayola boxes, and purchasers were asked to submit ideas for the color's name. Among the contest winners, this color was named by Christopher Straub (Age: 8). Robin egg blue, also called eggshell blue, approximates the shade of the eggs laid by the American robin. The first recorded use of robin egg blue as a color name in English was in 1873. == Variations of robin egg blue == === Pale robin egg blue === Pale robin egg...

@IͶΔ Could be, but I think it's most likely because I feel like I have never really acquired English.

> He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for what he said are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

4:26 PM

I've found lots of holes in my English in trivial stuff that I can express with ease in my first language. -- But maybe it's simply just because I've never known how to say/express it right in English.

I think I had missed thjs discussion. So this sentence is wrong, right?

@Man_From_India What about the sentence do you believe is incorrect?

@Catija Oh! I thought they were painted!

@Catija there is a reason. I think because of the part after for.

@Man_From_India Where is it being discussed?

4:28 PM

@DamkerngT. Yeah . . . this is a dream . . . ♫

@DamkerngT. No! That's their natural color! Isn't it beautiful?

@Catija Very!

They often have pale brown specks, too:

It fits the color theme of ELL, even! :D

Exactly! That's what I was saying.

4:30 PM

@DamkerngT. whether the following sentence is correct?

> He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for what he said are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

It's related to an ELL question.

Hmm... I didn't find any problem with it.

Seems like pretty standard newspaper writing to me.

He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for [sth]

But that [sth] is a complete sentence.

No, it's just a long noun phrase (or at least, you can think of it that way).

> what (that) he said (that) are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

@DamkerngT. that it should be, but I think I missed something. Please explain.

4:33 PM

"He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for [...] injuries (from the event), [...].

Hmm... did my two thats help?

@DamkerngT. let me think :-)

Something similar but simpler: I believe what you said is true. -- Hmm... I wish I could've thought of a better example. -- A-ha! "I agree with what(ever) you said you've presented".

The "what he said are" is the journalist clarifying that it's the man's statements not the facts of the case. Without "what he said are" they would be implying that the injuries were definitely due to the event.

nods

4:36 PM

@Catija I agree, but in that case I would prefer to replace are with about.

No. About doesn't work at all. "Said" means "claims"...

What he claims are injuries from the event.

What he claimed/said = injuries from the event

Let's try to build that part from the ground up...

> He said something.

> He said there are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

> What he said are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

> I believe what he said are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

"from the" means "that occurred during".

... or "received during"...

Hmm... this makes me think of that "volleyball" sentence which is supposedly from CGEL.

4:41 PM

@DamkerngT. it has the pattern -

I believe (that) NP is [sth]

NP = What he said

What, since when?

That would be WHS.

@DamkerngT. which sentence?

nods -- I can see your point. I knew why it looks weird to you. That's why I thought of the "volleyball" sentence.

It was something like (but it's a much better sentence): She told me she was in a volleyball team.

On a volleyball team?

And we can "insert" something like "I believe/they say/etc." in the middle.

She told me I believe she was in a volleyball team.

I know it isn't quite to the point. I can't remember that sentence. Nor the explanation.

@Catija It could be something not about volleyball at all. (^_^)

4:47 PM

Now I started to get your point, but I still need to learn the explanation.

I think we can find similar sentences in newspapers. But now only I noticed there oddness.

I think Listenever posted a similar question once.

But searching for a question on ELL is really hard.

Yes that's very true. But if you can find it please let me know.

Okay! :D

Oh, this is close!

(It's the first page I found, so don't hold high hope! :-)

> [76] i. We bought what/whatever/*which/whichever tickets were available.

CGEL 5:7.14, p. 398.

@DamkerngT. I'm so sorry, I had to go immediately. Where can do I find your previous answer to my question?

@GforOevOerD Um, what question?

Was it in another room (the main ELL room)?

in ELL's Cabin, 49 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

Didn't is plain and simple. You think of what happened, you use the simple past tense. You don't have to think of consequences, or any effects on ~~the present~~ your reference time, or how many times it had happened, and so on.

@GforOevOerD Maybe that one?

4:54 PM

Oh thank you! Yes you are right. Did't is plain and we just talk about simple past, things that have happened in the past.

Yes, thank you so much.

nods -- I guess that your textbook wants hadn't finished in that sentence, though.

Isn't it like this?

> He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for what, he said, are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

Hmm... I don't think we really need the commas.

A-ha! I can figure out how to convert your sentence back to two!

> 1. He was granted more than $600,000 in compensation for ____
2. He said [these] are injuries from the event, mostly toxicity.

Thinks I got it now :-)

Yay!

5:15 PM

How about this : "Why did you play ping-pong so badly? It's because I had not practiced for a long time." Also, could we say like : "It's because I didn't practice for a long time" ?

When the sense of consequence (no practice -> not performing well) is strong, hadn't is usually a better choice.

Also, you have a time expression for a long time, which, again, goes better with a perfect tense.

Thank you!

No problem.

I think as you said perfect tense is better here because: since past perfect refers to something which has happened before something else in the past and there we go like: Why did play ping-pong so badly(past)? It's because I had not practiced for a long time(past before the first past), which implicitly conveys : I didn't practice for a long time then I ended up not performing well.

@GforOevOerD Hullo! Note how @Dam says "better choice", not "correct choice". It's hard to come up with an incorrect example in tense. :)

5:21 PM

You could say that, too. It's almost like a mantra in English classes: the past perfect is for the past before past.

There can always be a context where past is better than perfect past.

@IͶΔ Hello! How you doing?

Great thanks! You?

@DamkerngT. Exactly! I wanted to sing that mantra but I couldn't.

@IͶΔ Alright, thanks!

Thank you guys, I understood.

IMO, most English textbooks (along with these mantras) can take you as far as about 75% correct (depending on how deep you want to cover the language, though). To get to something like 90%, you'll need more books, more effort, and more time. To get to something beyond that, you'll need to put even more effort into it.

The easiest way to master a second language, even today, probably still is having a girlfriend (or a boyfriend) who is a native speaker of that language. ;-)

5:26 PM

Exactly ! I have never found English as a second language books profitable when used as a single unit of learning. I believe that one has to read the books as well as things that he/she may be interested in.

Colleen spotted on meta.LL.

Haahahahahah, well, that's a bit challenging.

How about this: "What had Betty done before she ate dinner? She had read a newspaper." I think it's correct to use past perfect since the question has also used past perfect.

I think the past perfect is okay, but I would prefer the past simple in this case.

Note how clear it is with just What did Betty do before she ate dinner? because of before.

(I think I usually use had with dinner.)

@IͶΔ Is it being discussed in the chat room over there?

Colleen? No

Well the question has been written into the book and I'm expected to write an answer according to these words "read a newspaper"

5:34 PM

@IͶΔ I meant the tag thingy in her meta post.

Nope, chat is silent right now.

Hi?