English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

14:00

They don’t seem to be using IPA then.

Matt Эллен

yeah. I wonder what it is

tchrist

Are you looking at the so-called Americanist spelling-pronunciations?

Matt Эллен

no

tchrist

They use queer symbols

Matt Эллен

they just use the symbols differently to the IPA

yeah

tchrist

14:01

Which is also queer.

Matt Эллен

ODO pronunciation key

tchrist

And I don’t mean that in a good way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

are you saying that those symbols are gay?

tchrist

@MattЭллен That’s evil.

Matt Эллен

yeah. they didn't have go and make up a whole bunch of stuff where the IPA should fit

Andrew Leach

14:03

I use this. antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I’m saying that gay symbols are /geɪ/.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist cuz you get flagged for calling things gay in this room. just ask cerb.

tchrist

Not /gɛj/.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist I've updated my answer.

tchrist

I saw.

@MattЭллен I think there is some vowel movement, or at least slippage, in the pin–pen–pan triple.

Matt Эллен

14:11

how do you mean?

Oh I see

Andrew Leach

Are the sounds represented by /æ/ /ɛ/ /ɪ/ always the same? Because Australians use /ɪnɪ/ not /ɛnɪ/.

tchrist

I mean that there are speakers where beg–bag merge, and where pin–pen merge.

@AndrewLeach OH! I bet that’s the actual underlying question from the OP.

Now that you mention it.

Good catch!

Andrew Leach

However, it doesn't change the question: he's pronouncing "any" without using the same sound as others. In fact he's likely to be saying /ɛnɪ/ instead of /ɪnɪ/.

tchrist

It changes our understanding of the question.

Matt Эллен

ah. that could well be it

tchrist

14:16

If you are right, and I think you are, he’s actually asking if it is ok to use /ˈɛnɪ/ like you and I do, rather than /ˈɪnɪ/ the way his countrymen do.

Actually, I bet I say /ˈɛni/ and you say /ˈɛnɪ/. Americans don’t clip their final vowel in -y words as much as some — perhaps many — in Britain do. Not sure about Ireland.

Any is not the opposite of outie. We are not umbilici.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist That's likely to be less of a problem than someone in England saying /ænɪ/.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach They don’t really ever do that, do they?

As though it were fanny without the f-?

Andrew Leach

@tchrist No, but we need to certain of what our Antipodean correspondent is actually asking.

Jez

@MattЭллен "lunk to" :-)

tchrist

Hey wait, I know what’s doing on.

Any is a determiner.

Matt Эллен

14:19

@Jez :D glad you like it

tchrist

We don’t actually stress determiners.

At least, not in connected speech.

That means both its syllables are subject to reduction.

Andrew Leach

We don't actually stress any determiners.

tchrist

That’s special.

Andrew Leach

I like being special.

tchrist

Nurse, when’s the short bus coming?

@Matt His question is certainly becoming more interesting.

Matt Эллен

14:21

indeed :D

tchrist

We probably should be using [phonetic brackets] now not /phonemic slashes/.

Oz any may well be [ɨnɪ] or even [ɨnɨ], no stress markers.

RegDwighт

> Crony as a word is like the verb to table.

What does this even, I don't even.

tchrist

While for me, it is [ɛni] in careful speech, with a possible Brrit-sounding [ɛnɪ] in rapid speech.

@RegDwighт Which part?

RegDwighт

Every part.

tchrist

Are they saying there is a to crony verb that works like to table does?

Never heard of such a verb.

RegDwighт

14:25

I threw in some use–mention to try and fix it, but you will be happy to learn that didn't help all that much.

tchrist

In either sense of to table.

Is there a verb table?

I mean, rather, do you have a table of verbs in that document?

RegDwighт

Ah that. Well even with that knowledge, there are still ways to be more clear.

tchrist

“Let’s just crony this discussion, shall we?”

Hm.

RegDwighт

@tchrist to table is get off the table in the US, and get on the table in the UK. Or vice versa.

Not a table in a document.

Your first guess was right.

tchrist

Yes, remove from the table and cease discussion in the US, place upon the table and begin discussion in the UK.

RegDwighт

14:27

Aye.

We have a question for that.

tchrist

If there is a crony verb, there should be inflections in Google.

RegDwighт

No he's talking about the noun alright.

tchrist

Cronies could be a noun.

Oh, darn.

Now I am really confused.

RegDwighт

0

A: Does using the word "crony" necessitate a negative connotation?

The issue on the word "crony" depends on your nationality. The word is negative in the USA, positive in the UK. In America, a crony is a sleazy, almost illegal sort of person. In England, I recall that a wonderful Prince of Wales, in the 1800s, said to a salesman of hats in a store, "Freddy, st...

> Best, Will Brownell, PhD

tchrist

Golly.

Cerberus

14:29

> And one more thing. I keep referring to this as a "zoo", for lack of a better word and because that's likely the search term people will be using when on the lookout for animals to extend their collections with.

tchrist

@RegDwighт It should have “—insofar as its pondian confusability goes” added.

Cerberus

Bestiarium?

tchrist

Bestiary.

Is an accepted word.

Or words to that effect.

Andrew Leach

A bestiary is a book, isn't it?

tchrist

Can be.

RegDwighт

14:30

@tchrist I liked the part where he identified "to table" as a verb, and "crony" as... a word. For lack of a better term, I suppose.

Matt Эллен

better than a worstiary

tchrist

bestiary [ˈbɛstɪərɪ].
Etymology: ad. L. bestiārius ‘a fighter with beasts in the public spectacles,’ and med.L. bestiārium a menagerie, also ‘liber de bestiis compositus,’ etc., f. bestia beast: see -ary.
1 A beast-fighter in the Roman amphitheatre. (L. bestiarius.) Obs.
2 A treatise on beasts: applied to the moralizing treatises written during the Middle Ages.

Matt Эллен

crony is most certaily negative in the UK

tchrist

Is it?

It sure is here.

“And where are your cronies now, mate?”

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен tell that to the wonderful Prince of Wales, in the 1800s, then.

tchrist

14:32

“And where are your cronies now, buddy?”

I think those convey the same sentiment.

Matt Эллен

well, I've never heard it used in the way user43528 quotes, so that meaning seems to have become outdated

Andrew Leach

@RegDwighт That's self-deprecating humour, common among the upper classes.

RegDwighт

@AndrewLeach fair enough, but then what is he saying, that by positive he actually means negative?

Cerberus

And elsewhere.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Dunno why. It’s not like the rest of us aren’t already deprecating them enough.

RegDwighт

14:33

These confusion just won't stop!

Cerberus

You are deprecating the Prince of Wales?

RegDwighт

I am deprecating Java.

As fast as I can.

tchrist

Exaudi deprecationem meam.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Only the Prince of Wales from the 1800s

tchrist

@RegDwighт Amen.

Cerberus

14:34

Hmm.

Matt Эллен

he's already deadprecated

tchrist

Depreciated.

Cerberus

Didn't he fight at Waterloo?

RegDwighт

No, at Waterloo, that was ABBA.

Them was from Sweden.

tchrist

Despectated.

RegDwighт

14:34

Despectaclesed.

Matt Эллен

now you've gone too far

tchrist

Desecrated.

Matt Эллен

I can't see what you're getting at

tchrist

Desecreted.

Cerberus

Hey Europeans, do you have places named after Waterloo too, like Waterloo street and such? I know London has a train station. We have a square here.

RegDwighт

14:35

@MattЭллен Now you've misspelled "long ago".

Andrew Leach

@RegDwighт No, he's misunderstood that the word is universally pejorative, simply because the prince used it of his friends.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт and far far away

tchrist

@AndrewLeach So it is, and he has misunderstood this, thinking that it is not?

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен not as far far away as you'd've liked me to.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Yes.

tchrist

14:36

passes out yonders

RegDwighт

@AndrewLeach okay it's starting to make sense, then. Someone comment or something.

@Cerberus I'd imagine there are water loos all over Europe by now.

Progress.

Cerberus

Yeah.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Lost waters.

Waters once loosed are lost.

RegDwighт

But not lessened.

Matt Эллен

are they fewerened?

Andrew Leach

14:40

@RegDwighт I'm just looking up a reference or two...

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен They are Feweried in the Slaughterhouse.

Apr 2 at 19:43, by RegDwighт

Fury in the Slaughterhouse

Fury in the Slaughterhouse was a rock band from Hannover Germany, founded in 1987 and broke up in 2008. Their hits include: "Time To Wonder", "Every Generation Got Its Own Disease", "Won't Forget These Days", "Radio Orchid", "Dancing in the Sunshine of the Dark", "Milk & Honey", and "Trapped Today, Trapped Tomorrow". History In 1993, the band had its first international success with the hits Radio Orchid and Every Generation got its own Disease from the album Mono and successfully toured several European countries and the USA. Since then Fury has released new albums approximately ev...

Apr 2 at 19:43, by RegDwighт

Fast and Furious in the Slaughterhouse.

Gah did I fix that stupid first sentence after all?

tchrist

Did you see that “fewer radius” question? So odd.

RegDwighт

Oh yeah I did. Yay me.

tchrist

It’s like having a fewer football field or a fewer height.

RegDwighт

@tchrist I did not.

tchrist

14:42

0

Q: A water circle of few radius is around the park

Look at the below image. Do you see the water in few feet radius around a land? How do you describe this? Let's assume that the land is a park and there is no fountain. Can I express it as "A water circle of few radius is around the park"? I'm not sure if that sentence is grammatically and logic...

RegDwighт

@tchrist suits me fine, actually. When everyone is done hypercorrecting absolutely everything to fewer, less will finally have its renaissance.

tchrist

Little radius.

Small radius.

Tiny radius.

RegDwighт

And people will start hypercorrecting in the right direction, for once.

tchrist

Pandora is at work again, loosing her last evil, hope.

RegDwighт

I'm looking at the big picture.

Matt Эллен

14:44

I'm looking at the pictures with few area

tchrist

It’s like how foo and I has become indeclinable.

Andrew Leach

I was wondering how one gets to a bed on an island.

JSBձոգչ

but bar and I can still be declined

i decline it every day

tchrist

Give that to Johnny and I. Give Johnny and I a break. It’s Johnny and I’s supper.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Only until people start taking foom and Im to the cinema.

tchrist

14:45

Those are the people who take he and I to the cinema.

And think they are correcter than thou.

Or than thee.

RegDwighт

Yes, they will take absolutely everyone to the cinema. I can't wait for I's turn.

tchrist

I only becomes frozen following and.

Matt Эллен

thy turn will comethen

tchrist

But in that slot, it’s like so many deer in the headlights.

Scared to move.

Comethens are now asterhens.

tchrist

14:58

I swear that very nearly all posts with ellipses in them can and should be rewritten not to use them at all. Look how I fixes this one, for example:

0

Q: Choosing between “to experiment with” and “with which to experiment”

I am using the phrase to experiment with in the following sentence: That this curriculum also places importance on physical design and prototyping, and offers access to the resources of a research center equipped with a multitude of physical systems to experiment with, is a tremendous advanta...

grammar

KitFox

@JSB Was it creepy enough?

tchrist

There is no reason to surround quoted excerpts with ellipses the way people keep doing. It’s not “. . . to give someone a . . .” but simply “to give someone a”.

KitFox

15:12

Nummy sammy.

om nom nom

Jez

sammich?

KitFox

yep.

tchrist

Hallowe’en.

Jez

heh, my boss scheduled a 1-to-1 meeting for 12:00 today, then rescheduled it for 16:00, and surprise surprise he's not here

Matt Эллен

what a considerate fellow

tchrist

15:14

@Jez Maybe he has a dial clock.

Johan Larsson

the best meetings are the ones that gets canceled

KitFox

My sideways + 1 boss gave us the juicy political gossip at our meeting today.

tchrist

The best meetings are those that get concealed.

Johan Larsson

not sure, in a way maybe

Matt Эллен

@KitFox Romney is going to stage a coup?

KitFox

15:16

The new dean's wife is hired. A new faculty member's husband is being hired. And she is going to be merged in such a way that her husband will be her boss.

Matt Эллен

oh dear

Johan Larsson

poor both

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox to be honest i'm just getting a chance to listen to it now

Matt Эллен

so the dean will be incharge of his wife?

JSBձոգչ

it's a little disturbing how much you sound like some of those ASMR artists

KitFox

15:16

Yes.

And yes.

Matt Эллен

that won't end well

JSBձոգչ

i don't think i can handle this

KitFox

@JohanLarsson All three.

@JSBձոգչ I kind of muffed it in a few places.

It's a crazy amount of nepotism and everyone pretends like it isn't a big deal.

Johan Larsson

@JSBձոգչ link?

JSBձոգչ

Kit's Relaxing and Affirming ASMR

KitFox

15:18

In my center, there are three married couples who are employees.

@JohanLarsson It's JSB's script! I just read it.

JSBձոգչ

i'm losing it

KitFox

Sorry.

JSBձոգչ

you even got some nice paper rustling sounds in there

@KitFox no, losing it in a good way

KitFox

I figured out how to get my mouth sounds in later in the recording.

I think I could do better a second time.

JSBձոգչ

yeah, you should rerecord and try to put this on the youtubes

KitFox

15:20

I thought of a good one, but I haven't written it yet.

JSBձոգչ

maybe talk a little more slowly?

KitFox

Talking more slowly would be easier with video.

JSBձոգչ

you actually do really good with that calm, breathy voice that the asmr folks tend to use

KitFox

I plan to do an informed consent one. I think it would be a great and potentially really funny roleplay.

JSBձոգչ

i'm cracking up already

KitFox

15:21

@JSBձոգչ Thanks. I studied hard.

It's a bit higher-pitched than I usually speak, to make it sound more girly.

JSBձոգչ

excellent

i can totally believe that you're outside my window watching me sleep at night

Johan Larsson

@KitFox @JSBձոգչ really nice both!

KitFox

I think I might start that new script over lunch.

I just need to find some old consent forms...

I wish I were sophisticated enough to add sound effects.

Johan Larsson

what kind of effects are you looking for?

KitFox

pulling off nitrile gloves, hand washing

TemporaryNickName

15:32

wow

making a website from scratch takes a lot of time

XD

KitFox

Yeah. Yeah, it does.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you want to make a website from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

TemporaryNickName

I've spent time on this one for 2 months now

KitFox

pfft Like we haven't all invented the universe.

JSBձոգչ

does anyone make websites from scratch any more?

TemporaryNickName

15:37

I feel like i am a dumb

JSBձոգչ

just slap something together in WP or django or....

Matt Эллен

I tend to make mine from HTML, CSS and javascript

KitFox

Me too!

And asp.net.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I make mine out of cookies and eggnog.

Matt Эллен

sometimes I'll throw in a pinch of nutmeg

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:38

they're not html compliant though.

Matt Эллен

:D

TemporaryNickName

I mean, it's not extremely from scratch since I am using a framework

KitFox

Mmm, eggnog. So yummy and revolting at the same time.

TemporaryNickName

backend is easy

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I just drink the store-bought stuff. it's probably like "eggnog" the way processed cheese slices are like cheese.

KitFox

15:39

@TemporaryNickName That's just not true.

TemporaryNickName

but I've been spending too much time on changing little stuffs with CSS

JSBձոգչ

wait, are we talking about websites or eggnog now?

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен Using Notepad?

JSBձոգչ

that's not surprising. tweaking CSS can go on for literally ever

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

CSS is so annoying.

Matt Эллен

15:40

@AndrewLeach not hard enough - I use emacs

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I like it's principles but its implementation is lacking. It's just too hard to do certain basic things.

KitFox

Why is my chat not scrolling properly?

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен No wonder you need all that sleep then!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox that happens to me sometimes.

KitFox

looks cross

Matt Эллен

15:41

looks askance

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox The cross is on the altar. Next to the cross is a small black book. Behind it is a picture of a smiling cherub on a cloud.

JSBձոգչ

@MattЭллен emacs is for noobs. i use vim.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

wait, are we looking at things or typing commands into a text adventure?

KitFox

Hahaha. Good one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

sorry @temp but we've derailed your complaining into nonsense.

RegDwighт

15:42

Attack monster with sword.

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ I know people who use vim. It's a bad scene

RegDwighт

Turn left.

Hey whoa there's a piano!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The monster is impervious to all stabbing and slicing weapons. He laughs at you then swats you with an armored tentacle.

RegDwighт

Play piano. Ignore game.

Matt Эллен

throws salt at monster

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:43

soft music fills the air

RegDwighт

monster loves salt

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

the monster's tentacle shrivels and falls off. Now he is enraged and lashes out with his other 19 tentacles.

RegDwighт

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@reg did you see the new x-wing model? fbtb.net/2013/05/01/…

you probably have all the parts except the canopy

oh, and the trans-pink minifig heads.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you mean the one they announced OVER 9000 years ago? Sure I did.

No idea about the parts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:45

@RegDwighт yes but now people have it in hand and are comparing it to the original model from before you were born

RegDwighт

I don't care much for Star Wars, and even less so for X Wings in particular.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

-again

KitFox

I have the new one. I like it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox not THIS new one.

it's huge. a few years ago it'd've been called "Ultimate Collector Series" but they seem to have dropped that label.

RegDwighт

Hm Rebrickable doesn't seem to have it.

Anyway, I read a lot of criticism on Brickset, what with the giant stickers and all.

At this price they could, and should, easily do better.

Robusto

15:47

So this colleague of mine started smoking again as a lifestyle choice. Seriously. I said, "Dude, you know that shit is bad for you." He held up a pack of these special cigarettes and said, "These are organic." I said, "Yeah. So is cancer."

@RegDwighт Pounding salt again?

KitFox

BBL

RegDwighт

@Robusto Kilogramming.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 they have? Everyone still calles them that. My R2-D2 is a UCS I'd say, even though it's just one number away from the Town Hall.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto seriously? "These are organic"?

@RegDwighт The packages no longer say it.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well can you name cigarettes that are not?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 the packages I see here never did, for all I know. They also don't mention the number of parts or anything. They do have the name of the model in Hungarian, though.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I kid you not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:50

@RegDwighт actually most cigarettes are probably not, by the definition of "grown without certain kinds of pesticides, sold without certain kinds of additives, etc" definition.

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 by that definition nothing is organic, including you, my dearest friend.

Robusto

Arsenic is organic.

RegDwighт

I don't give a rat's arsenic about that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto arsenic is "natural".

TemporaryNickName

@KitFox Backend is not easy, of course soz

Robusto

15:51

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's 100% natural!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Note how the older box says "Ultimate Collector Series" on the top

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 never saw the first one. Ever.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto as opposed to "organic".

@RegDwighт yeah because you were in your dark ages until at least 2004, right? you said yourself you don't have any old grey in your collection.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wevs.

TemporaryNickName

I think I have been so serious about this project

I have completely shifted my layout design for more than 2 times now

RegDwighт

15:52

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Stuff and nonsense. A friend of mine has the UCS Millennium Falcon. The package looks exactly like your average City set.

TemporaryNickName

because i thought previous ones had problems

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto No, I mean, there is an actual label called "organic" that is regulated to some degree and refers to certain methods of farming and food production. It's a terrible choice of label on account of how misleading it is. But it is what it is.

TemporaryNickName

I'm just going to continue build it just for fun, who cares =D

RegDwighт

I'm almost finished with the Sopwith Camel, BTW.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It is for all practical purposes a meaningless distinction.

RegDwighт

15:53

The strings were a major letdown, I must say.

Looked way cooler in the video.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт It's called "Ultimate Collector's Millennium Falcon" on the box

RegDwighт

For me, everything moves like one millimeter in either direction. Actually on the tail it only moves one millimeter in one direction.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Is "Organic food" not a thing where you live?

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 probably. But still, the package design is different. Nowhere near what you've shown there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт I get a few mm on the wings and tail, but the tail moves only down.

RegDwighт

15:55

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha WTF, for me it's only up.

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It is a thing. It's just not a scientifically meaningful thing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт my bad, it's up for me too

RegDwighт

Also, the two useless strings, the one running between the wings, were totally loose. I had to reattach them one stud further away from the position in the manual.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto well, it can be meaningful, in theory. In practice, probably not. Actually for cigarettes I wouldn't be surprised if organic cigs were less harmful. In the way that certain bullets are less harmful, but still.

@RegDwighт mine are not loose.

do you know what the purpose of the shock in the landing gear is?

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 the worst part was how you only put the rubber bands in the very last moment, so up until then I was all WTF this is not working at all. In fact the tail was so not working, staying firmly in upright position, that I thought the string was too short, checked out the strings on the front, and one of them was like half an inch longer than the other, so I disassembled the whole front part to put it on the tail instead, only to find out that all three are of the exact same length.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:58

also those technic pins that are full-length on one side and half-length on the other side confused me. I had never seen them before and didn't notice that they weren't half-pin-with-stud.

RegDwighт

And boy was it a nightmare to take the front part apart again. And then to reassemble it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт ah, yeah. I didn't worry about it until the end.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…