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12:03 AM
@tchrist ah, yes.
@Jez I love Maltesers! So much better than Whoppers. Speaking of whoppers, you should see the basket I got from mine.
 
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Either that, or “April blizzards, blame the wizards.”
 
12:27 AM
I am watching Transylvania 6-5000 for the first time since the 80s.
 
@tchrist It might be April blizzards, fry the gizzards.
 
12:57 AM
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That’s quite nearly all she wrote. The only others are vizard (like visor) and grisard.
 
@tchrist All she wrote? Fill the moat.
 
1:39 AM
Why can’t women be chairmen or spokesmen or firemen? I really, really, really, don’t understand this PC crap!
It’s a generic word. It is not an insult to their sex.
Oh the humanity!
Only in America would anyone dare call this sort of namby-pamby wishiwashiness “strong gun control”. What a joke!
 
1:56 AM
skims
Bbbbut legislation threatens our government's right to protect the American people by spending $15 million a day in some shithole on the other side of the world!
Time to commute, and then pour some wine.
 
@tchrist Yeah, I would just say "chairman" if the sex is unknown, otherwise probably either chairman or chairwoman.
 
2:31 AM
I would say "chairman" in any case. Fuck 'em.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:32 AM
hmm
nice, my course coordinator who is also incharge of IT department just left the classroom I am currently in so now I can freely eat my sandwich, coffee, doritos and make a lot of chewing noise in the classroom =D (Eating is not permitted in classrooms in my college but who cares =D)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:55 AM
hi
 
7:39 AM
lol I just had a thorough chat with a Chinese friend about war between North and South Korea
and asked him which side does he support
I became little bit irrational during the chat
=D
 
Jez
8:30 AM
and which side does he support?
 
 
2 hours later…
10:29 AM
Reg, I don't think "The origin of superstitions is off-topic here" because, really, it is General Reference. — Carlo_R. 13 hours ago
Such precision of language, such clarity of thought. It could only be iCarlo.
 
11:22 AM
Look, Nigerian spam:
-1
A: When to use "I was ... " and when "I had been ... "?

user41692You can visit the English and Literary Department of the University of Nigeria via http://unn.edu.ng/department/english-and-literary-studies for answers to this question.

 
Islamocensorship.
 
Nah, there's more to that.
Pay attention to the date.
It's really clever.
These sets are typically discontinued after a year or two. All of them. Always.
 
The Nigerian spammers are replicating:
-1
A: Is it wrong to use the word "codes" in a programming context?

user41691yes it is but for a clearer verificatio try this http://www.unn.edu.ng

 
The set in question is from last holiday season.
 
11:26 AM
Oh.
 
Yeah.
 
“Asian and oriental”.
 
That was the funniest part. The set comes with exactly two humans, Han and Leia.
 
So they did nothing at all.
So the others must be “Asian and oriental”.
Or they are.
 
Yeah, Chewbacca is obviously brown people.
 
11:29 AM
I always figured Carrie Fischer was half-oriental on her step-grandmother’s side. It was the hair-buns that outed her.
 
@tchrist yes, they did nothing at all, but now the Moslems can declare victory and withdraw.
It's really Salomonic.
 
Hola.
 
Ironic that you select a Jewish name for the solution. :)
 
Unless said Moslems choose to fight on.
 
Salomonic Rushdie?
 
11:31 AM
Salmonic verses.
 
@tchrist *crullers
 
Hm. I kinda thought those were krullers with a k.
But I could be wrong.
 
I am reduced to using Yahoo Search. Or Bing. Feh.
 
How come?
> cruller: The name comes from early 19th century Dutch kruller, from krullen "to curl". Crullers are traditionally eaten in Germany and some other European countries on Shrove Tuesday, to use up fat before Lent.
Oh, apparently they’ve respelt it.
> The German origin is probably why traditional crullers can be found more easily in the Midwest, where many German immigrants settled. Some family-owned bakeries still call them "krullers."
But not in the German-run bakeries in SE WI.
I think is the one of those words that DARE has a section on.
 
50% chance of fun? I like those odds ...
 
And here is an example from a children's book.
 
Yes, Wikipedia suggests that the kruller spelling is only found in family-run bakeries of German immigrants in the Midwest.
 
A cruller twist of fait accompli I cannot imagine.
 
The Geneva bakery burned down in a big fire, and was not replaced. We now get our tasties from the Lakeland Bakery in Elkhorn.
 
11:57 AM
shimmers
 
@MattЭллен Bungie jumper!
 
much warmer than wool
 
Death to that Potter kid!
0
Q: meaning and usage of 'teh'

Listenever“I wouldn' say no teh a bit o' yer birthday cake, neither.” “He usually gets me ter do important stuff fer him.” (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone) Hagrid’s pronunciation for ‘to’ is spelled ‘ter,’ in the book, so ‘teh seems to be an article which is told in Wiktionary. It seeming not a co...

Or maybe Harry’s not the problem. :)
God forbid that she should read Twain.
 
Can I just close a whole bunch of stuff as off-topic?
 
I’m probably the wrong person to ask, since my instinct is to say PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!!!
 
12:10 PM
Will you help with some useful comments about why basic questions are off-topic and that they ought to check out ELL?
 
I will, provided I figure out which questions you mean. Right now, I’m unsure.
The sp-vs-pp one?
That’s a muddle.
And old. So you must mean something else.
The sp-vs-pp was Nigerian spam.
Oddly enough.
I can’t find the prince anywhere.
 
Sorry, my box crashed.
 
is he in the desert, helping a downed pilot?
 
We maybe ought to have @Wendikidd consult.
Hmm. That didn't ping her did it?
 
If she has been here lately, it ought’ve done.
 
12:16 PM
I'm not sure the last time Wendikidd was here
 
I think if it completes (and it does), it pings.
I still think @WendiKidd sounds like a wendigo child.
 
It didn't complete for me.
 
Curious.
 
Do we have a canonical answer on "come" and "give" used in regional dialects as past tense? E.g., "He come in here last night finally and give me the fifty bucks he owed me."
 
@tchrist Google Search and Google Calendar are down where I am.
 
12:19 PM
@MετάEd April Fool’s is over, ,no?
 
I must get back to work.
 
@tchrist You would think.
 
@Robusto We might. Not sure.
 
@KitFox Depends what you mean by basic questions. Questions which are uninteresting to experts and show no effort at research are off topic.
General reference questions are effectively off topic too.
But that's a special case of no effort at research, I suppose.
 
@MattЭллен See you later.
 
12:22 PM
The trouble is, interesting and expert are such squishy terms.
 
Nobody does research anymore. They just post one-liners begging that we gibbem da codez.
 
@MattЭллен Wait, that implies you were actually working before, which is open to speculation and interpretation.
 
I am writing a meta question right now proposing that we explicitly no longer accept single word requests.
 
@KitFox Did you read the related questions about that on Meta? The topic has a long history IIRC.
 
Yeah. I've been here longer than you, remember?
I'm suggesting that since we now have ELL, we tell people to ask those there.
 
12:26 PM
@KitFox Er, huh?
@KitFox But sure.
One problem is that lack of research in one place might still count as lack of research in another.
However, different sites have different standards in that regard. Consider Linguistics.SE, whose research requirements are higher that ELU’s.
I think we have a related issue in facile questions asked by non-native speakers that require nothing more than a random native speaker to answer.
There is quite literally no possible end of those.
 
That has long been an issue.
 
I don’t know that they would be received more warmly at ELL, but that is my suspicion.
But that makes ELL the forbidden dumbing ground.
Well, or dumping ground.
Both.
 
ELL is a perfect example of "Be careful what you wish for."
 
Now we need to litter the site with more academic-level questions.
 
This is hard. Ish.
At least, it requires actual effort, and no small amount of thought.
 
12:37 PM
Well, I've been thinking of one related to non-rhotic dialects.
Trouble is, I think I have the answer already.
 
@KitFox That is not forbidden, but it is prudent to delay a bit in self-answering.
Let alone self-acceptance.
 
I'd rather not self-answer.
I really would like to know more about it.
 
I’m forever being confused by the non-rhotic Mississippi accent. They also have some prosaic dialect words, but that is easier, since it doesn’t cause me to mis-lex/identify the words themselves; rather, it just signals to me there is a word being used in a way I am unfamiliar with. But the accent really confuses my lexer something fierce.
 
Must be Cajun? I didn't know Mississippi had non-rhotics.
I would have thought they were all from Acadia.
 
No, not Cajun, and yes, they do. I know because we have an office there.
It took me forever to realize they were saying not era but error. No, really.
 
12:44 PM
Huh.
That sounds perfectly normal to me.
But error is difficult for me to pronounce clearly.
Rural too.
I remember being corrected on lure as well.
And I just realized that I pronounce iron in a peculiar way, compared to the spelling.
 
Funny you mention lure.
Lately there have been NPR speakers who have doing something with it I cannot quite make out.
They make it rhyme with her.
 
I don't know IPA, but I pronounce it somewhere like ler.
 
I think.
 
Yeah.
Like that.
 
Yes, see.
Whereas I thought it rhymed with tour or cure.
 
12:47 PM
It rhymes with cure.
But not tour.
 
I just find that the her pronunciation sounds funny. It wasn’t one I was formatively exposed to.
 
I would say it as tour. No y-glide.
I also don't put a y-glide in coupon.
 
You can imagine my difficulty with rural. Rerel.
 
I think fishermen in the small fishing village where I come from have the tour pronunciation.
 
Terists, I've heard. For tourists.
 
12:49 PM
Ouch.
 
It's too much trouble to say lyoor.
 
Rural route is a normal label for an address.
@Robusto Exactly.
@KitFox Now you’ve gone and done let the terrorists win!
Nobody bothers making rural route come out like mural shout; it’s more like earl shout.
So like squirrel, loses a syllable.
 
Rerel root.
 
Two proununciations of lure in one scene.
 
@KitFox I think you would puzzle my people.
 
12:52 PM
Commute. Later.
 
Oh wait, you don’t mean root but hoop.
No wonder I was confused.
For me, root rhymes with foot, so what you wrote is really weird.
 
Oh right. I forgot.
 
I was honestly confused at first, not just pulling your leg. I need to make real coffee, damn it.
 
You're a ruf pronouncer as well, aren't you?
 
See, this is where your lack of IPA hurts you.
I look at that and say rough.
Which is not how I pronounce roof at all.
 
12:55 PM
Oh. Well, that's what I was getting at.
 
The IPA vowel you are looking for, the one from put and book in GA, is /ʊ/.
IPA /u/ is from GA loop, tour, do.
In primary school, I think they may call the first one “short u” and the second one “long u”.
The one in GA rough, cut is /ʌ/.
I don’t know what they tell kids that one is. Maybe a stressed schwa?
The rounded u of cute is IPA /ju/.
 
No, I think we'd call that one short too.
 
But GA cut and put have different vowels; how can they both be “short u”?
 
Because they aren't long.
 
So?
 
12:59 PM
There are not so many subtleties in primary school.
 
So they a in about is a “short a” then, right?
 
Yeah.
 
I don’t know why they damage our children this way.
 
Why do we need to know it?
 
Because cat and about have different vowels, and it is a lie to tell children they are the same.
 
1:00 PM
Aside from academic interest, I'm not sure how knowing the various vowel sounds is a useful life skill.
 
Then don’t teach it at all.
Better that than to lie to them.
 
Well, you have to teach them how to read.
 
Since they seem to think they need to teach it, they can do it without idiocy.
 
So the useful distinction is whether it's a long sound or a short sound.
Tub vs. tube, for instance.
The rest they do naturally.
 
Treating people like simpletons is a problematic approach.
 
1:03 PM
Well, you try explaining to a seven-year-old that the sounds are different but the graphemes are identical.
They won't care and they don't need to know.
Spelling is hard enough as it is.
 
1:20 PM
0
Q: Non-rhotic dialects and intrusive r

KitFoxI am from New England (northeastern US) and it's my understanding that we have a non-rhotic dialect in this region, which is unusual compared to the rest of the US. It is common to drop the final r in a word, and that is the most singular feature of the dialect, as Tom Bosley's character in Murd...

Here is my latest effort at asking an interesting question.
 
I’m thinking that some parts of NE are rhotic and others non-rhotic, but I haven’t checked.
Boston Brahmin is certainly non-rhotic.
Many but not all Southern dialects are non-rhotic. And dialect is probably the wrong word.
Sorry.
But GA is certainly rhotic.
I have heard that there are rhotic Canadians who say “the idear of it”. Not sure how that works.
 
The sites I read seemed to indicate that NE was almost exclusively non-rhotic and that was something special.
But I've often heard that we're Britisher than the rest and I think it's all a myth.
 
It’s like that popular TV series, Lauren Odour.
That you are Britisher? Yes, it is a myth.
The immigrants to the south came later.
 
I mean, my own speech isn't particularly non-rhotic. I actually pronounce the r in car, for instance.
But since I started looking at non-rhotic v. rhotic, I can hear features in my speech.
 
Supposedly rhotic dialect do not have intrusive-r, which is why the Canadian report is so odd.
> Rhotic dialects do not feature intrusive R. A rhotic speaker may use alternative strategies such as a hiatus between the two consecutive vowel sounds, or the insertion of a glottal stop to clarify the boundary between the two words. Varieties that feature linking R but not intrusive R (that is, tuna oil is pronounced [ˈtjuːnə (ʔ)ɔɪl]), show a clear phonemic distinction between words with and without /r/ in the syllable coda.
 
1:27 PM
Like linked-r. I say things like drawring.
 
I have rhotic kin who say warshing. Cain’t tell ya why.
 
I usually correct it, but that's my native speech.
I don't say warsh.
And my r is probably softer than rhotic speakers.
But it's there.
 
Ahah!
> Anyway, this brings us to the point of today’s post, the related phenomenon of hypercorrective intrusive r. This is a largely American peculiarity whereby someone with a traditionally non-rhotic accent (as found in New York City and New England) hypercorrects and pronounces r regardless of whether it precedes a vowel. Hence we get “I’ve got no idear what to wear!” and “He liked to drawr cats.”
 
Interesting.
 
> Mysterious to me, though, is why this levelling only seems to have produced the intrusive r phenomenon in the Northern U.S.
So yes, NE is special.
 
1:34 PM
Yay, I'm special!
 
@RegDwighт Haha, that was funny
 
I swear I didn't realize that the question right before mine was also about non-rhotic speech.
Hi @Mr.Shiny.
 
@KitFox good morning
 
@tchrist Well, that doesn't begin to cover it. I distinctly remember JFK pronouncing "Cuba" as Cuber even if nothing followed.
 
“That’s a good idear.”
 
1:44 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Everything I read suggested that there ought to be something following to induce the r sound, but I hear it without anything following.
At the ends of sentences.
 
The question then is whether that phenomenon really does occur only in the far NE, or whether other non-rhotic dialects also experience it.
 
I just don't think that's a hypercorrection. I think it's a natural inversion, much the way Brooklynese pronounces "bird" boid and "toilet" terlet.
 
Maybe you can improve my question then, @Rob.
1
Q: Non-rhotic dialects and intrusive r

KitFoxI am from New England (northeastern US) and it's my understanding that we have a non-rhotic dialect in this region, which is unusual compared to the rest of the US. It is common to drop the final r in a word, and that is the most singular feature of the dialect, as Tom Bosley's character in Murd...

 
> R-droppers are also called non-rhotic English speakers, though I find this term rather obscure and academic. There are two types of r-droppers, which I call Systematic R-droppers and Simple R-droppers.
> Systematic R-droppers are found in the northeastern U. S., in much of England, and in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, much of the Caribbean, and other places. Systematic R-droppers have linking and intrusive r’s. John F. Kennedy is an excellent example of a Systematic r-dropper. In a speech he gave prior to being elected, he says “The hungry children I sawr in West Vaginia.”
> This quote has one intrusive r, and one dropped r, both highlighted in red. In another speech during the Cuban missile crisis he says, starting at 4:55: “...Soviet foreign minister Gromyko told me in my office that he was instructed to make it cleah once again, as he said his govament had already done, Soviet assistance to Cubar, and I quote, ...”, which again has one intrusive r, and two dropped r’s, again highlighted in red.
> Simple R-droppers are found in parts of the Lowland South. As a general rule, they do not have linking and intrusive r’s. All of the areas in the South marked as r-droppers on my map are Simple R-dropper areas. (It turns out that Hawai’i Creole English is also of this type.)
From here.
 
What a barfy site.
 
1:52 PM
No kidding.
This article may have some possible bearing.
 
Hello.
 
@tchrist That's interesting.
 
@tchrist Unsurprising.
 
April blizzard, go get scissored
 
2:02 PM
> The word ‘completely’ is intentional here: the study’s subjects find that, among the younger participants, they are nearly 100% rhotic.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Nice.
 
curtsies
@KitFox you said it.
 
It seems I must be semi-rhotic then.
 
@KitFox please. you're at least 3/4 erotic.
 
Aww, thanks.
Is it really only 10am?
I guess I should probably do some work then.
 
@KitFox I added something. Not sure it helps.
 
2:16 PM
I sawr that. Thanks.
I wish we had nap mats here.
 
Then what is Rob lying on?
 
Is he lying?
 
how can you tell?
 
Well, lay your eyes upon him.
 
7000 views for my elephant on flickr. And counting.
 
2:29 PM
If I'm not getting laid am I lying?
 
@RegDwighт Wow, that's cool!
 
Yeah Reddit is crazy.
And random.
I posted animals before. Got three and a half views and one comment.
 
Meetin' time.
 
You can't predict it.
Kind of like with the Collider.
 
I guess elephants are just cooler.
 
2:33 PM
The real funny thing is that the LEGO subreddit only has 35k subscribers, and only some 50 of them are online right now. Goes to show how many people browse Reddit without registering.
 
Even I have done so!
> Google's Good and Evil Divisions Reportedly in Talks Over Precious
 
To further support that point, out of the 7000+ views I only got 7 comments on Reddit, and exactly zero favorites or subscribers on flickr.
 
> Industry sources say that representatives of Google's executive board are deep in negotiations with an internal "skunkworks" start-up originally dedicated to researching online marketing opportunities, but which has since expanded to cover the entirety of evil services. The morally errant division, nicknamed Googollum, is understood to be arguing internally that the Internets stole the precious social networking, they did, and gave it to the Facebooks, and must be punished.
 
@RegDwighт views++;
 
> While some at the company have suggested that it mustn't steal the Internets' privacies, other Googollum workers, who asked not to be identified, have said that no-one would notice, and anyways, what has the nasty Internetsies done for Google lately?
> Talks are ongoing, although setbacks did occur when Googollum's management, speaking at the company's Friday meeting, refused to tell anyone where the Google Plus development team was hidden, and went on to eat the Google Reader product manager raw.
@RegDwighт Aww you want your best bud to subscribe you?
 
2:36 PM
The 100-odd views I had before Reddit, i.e. the ones from within flickr, got me 7 favorites and two subscribers.
@Cerberus nah, I don't insist, just running stats. You know how I love numbers.
Though of course if you want me to be your only super best friend on flickr, I won't say no.
 
Favourited!
Alas, I am incapable of finding the Subscribe button.
 
@Cerberus No marijuana appraisals in this chat.
 
Haha, you actually still have access to that account?
 
I have Lastpass. I never lose access to anything.
 
What is this witchcraft?
 
2:39 PM
^
@tchrist ?
 
Cerberus is waiting at the last pass. How fitting.
 
You shall not pass! Wait, I mean, you shall pass! And don't come back.
@tchrist Ah.
> In response to last week's exceedingly polite Canadian Supreme Court ruling on text message privacy, EFF will print a limited edition run of "Sorry if this is a bother, but I'd really prefer if you returned with a warrant, eh" stickers for Canadian mobile devices.
 
Heh.
“Exceedingly polite”?
harrumphs
 
2:43 PM
Isn't it?
I haven't read it.
 
It seems only right and proper.
The cops can’t raid your cell phone for private communications without a warrant.
Any more than they can listen in on your phone calls or open your letters.
 
Yeah I know that. But not whether the wording was polite.
 
Oh.
 
Good morning.
 
Ask Max. :)
 
2:58 PM
Hello again.
Is it safe yet?
 
I haven't seen our friend for a long time.
 
Neither hide nor hair nor spoor seen for these several weeks now.
 

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