English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

20:00

hi!

Mahnax

How are you?

Matt Эллен

good! I had a chuckle at Bing's attempts to translate Finnish. how are you?

Mahnax

Once, a Finnish relative posted a status and a little button saying "translate with bing" was there. I clicked it, and it correctly translated nothing.

I'm alright.

Matt Эллен

:D

yeah, that's what I'm doing. a friend of mine is posting things in Finnish (because he is Finnish)

Glad to hear it

Mahnax

Cool, you know a Finn?

Matt Эллен

20:04

Hmmm...jalkahoidon ottajalle käsihoito kaupanpäälle... Kaksmielisillä on taas hauskempaa
Hmmm ...foot care to the lessee by the hand in the management of the trade ... Kaksmielisillä is more fun (Translated by Bing)

@Mahnax the best thing about the internet is how many people I've met. a few from Scandinavia.

Mahnax

I love the internet. I've met all of you there!

Matt Эллен

exactly :)

Mahnax

And I've picked up some useful knowledge on ELU.

Matt Эллен

It is arguably the best site on the SE network

Vitaly

20:29

The best site on the SE network was Atheism.SE. But they could stand its awesomeness, so they had to shut it down.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Vitaly Nah, it was kinda dull

Mahnax

What's to ask though?

Matt Эллен

do you believe in god?

don't you believe in god?

Mahnax

Okay, and then?

Matt Эллен

on a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you believe in god?

on a scale of 1 to 10, how much don't you believe in god?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:31

It had only two questions. "Is there a god?" and the accepted answer was "no", and "How do I argue that there is no god" and it was closed as "list question"

Mahnax

Hahaha.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly what actual questions did it have? do you remember?

Vitaly

@MattЭллен I mostly remember two types of questions: refutations for theistic fallacies (“How do you refute a theistic Occam's razor argument?”) and dealing with theistically-minded people (“When someone says they will be praying for you, what do you say?”)

Matt Эллен

Maybe it would have been a slow burner. What I read on the blog was that the people participating ran out of steam

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен It didn't get many new questions.

Matt Эллен

20:39

yeah

Vitaly

Feb 15 at 11:05, by Vitaly

Oh, and one more thing about Atheism.SE … You know PZ Myers, right?

Feb 15 at 11:07, by Vitaly

Anyway, PZ Myers plugged Atheism.SE (which wasn't even in beta then) on Pharyngula, and the Area51 proposal got hundreds of followers basically overnight

Feb 15 at 11:07, by Vitaly

It's not difficult to imagine the quality of such an audience

Most of us weren't ready for the StackExchange format. I only remember a few people who weren't first-time users of the StackExchange platform.

Not to mention that we didn't have a pro-tem mod.

Matt Эллен

so most users wanted to treat it like a typical forum?

that would make it difficult to keep here

Vitaly

Most users joined the proposal and never came back

Matt Эллен

oh

Vitaly

And most users who came back did that, yes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:44

I started using the Atheism site fairly early in beta. My problem was that I didn't really have anything to say about it that wasn't already being said. There just isn't much to discuss about atheism among atheists.

KitFox

Preaching to the choir, so to speak.

Matt Эллен

:D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, I should say rather than "there is nothing to say", there aren't many questions to ask.

KitFox

With Christianity, everyone can argue about who is right.

With atheists, everyone can just agree.

It's not like there are lots of different ways of not believing in god.

JSBᾶngs

@KitFox well, you could still argue, but not about that

KitFox

20:47

My kind of atheism is better than your kind of atheism. I'm a better atheist than you.

JSBᾶngs

@KitFox a friend of mine joked about creating the Society of Particular Atheists, which consisted of people who were devoted to disbelieving in one particular god

KitFox

I suppose.

@JSBᾶngs That was actually going to be my next joke.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs Isn't that just about everyone, ever? :)

JSBᾶngs

Joke

A is something spoken, written, or done with humorous intention. Jokes may have many different forms, e.g., a single word or a gesture (considered in a particular context), a question-answer, or a whole short story. The word "joke" has . To achieve their end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punch line, i.e. an ending to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken one in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placing salt in the sugar bowl). Purpose Jokes are typically ...

Vitaly

> A close friend of mine wanted to have what she called a respectful dialog on the differences in our beliefs, but when I wrote my story and emailed it to her, I didn't hear from her again. I guess she was offended that my deconversion story basically came down to education and knowledge.

Matt Эллен

20:49

Teacher loses job over Facebook photo, files lawsuit

KitFox

If I'm Pastafarian, can I still call myself atheist?

Vitaly

(just skimming through the posts.xml file of Atheism.SE's dump)

Matt Эллен

@KitFox so long as you don't believe his noodley appendage is God/a god

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs yeah yeah, I got it.

Anyway: I'm outta here. later folks.

JSBᾶngs

@MattЭллен but isn't that the entire point of the Noodly One?

Matt Эллен

20:52

cya @MrShinyandNew

@JSBᾶngs heh :) indeed!

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

0

Q: A unique event, an unusual event

We use 'a' before unique and 'an' before unusual. The latter example seems to me too unusual, so I was wondering why it occur.

indefinite-article

JSBᾶngs

close it!

Matt Эллен

but I can't find the dupe

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh come on! I thought we had our a/an question of the day already!

KitFox

Damn it. JSB's was better.

Anyway, must find dinner.

Later!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

3

Q: Is it "a uniform" or "an uniform"?

On a Physics specification, it says: 6.7 Know how to use two permanent magnets to produce a uniform magnetic field pattern. Isn't it "produce an uniform magnetic field", or is the existing "produce a uniform magnetic field pattern" correct?

grammaticality articles indefinite-article

There's also a question about an year, and at least two about an user.

Matt Эллен

21:04

I see. I felt sure we'd had one about unique before.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I felt sure we hae one specificatlly about Yu vs Un, but couldn't find it.

Mostly because we have so many frigging questions about a vs an.

Matt Эллен

it's true

David Wallace

We should get a new SE site set up, for asking the difference between a and an. So hopefully, we'll never see them on English.SE thereafter.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Also, I feel very bad for FrustratedWithFormsDesigner, but I have to be consistent and delete his answer as per

Dec 30 '11 at 12:56, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dear next person who answers a question about a vs. an: you are awesome and I love you, but your answer will be deleted without further notice.

There is nothing, really absolutely nothing left to say about a vs. an.

Matt Эллен

Stack Exchange English Language & Usage Blog: Articles: “A” vs. “An”

waiwai933 on November 04, 2011

One of the prevalent questions on the English Language and Usage – Stack Exchange is about whether a or an is the correct indefinite article to use. It’s a straightforward question, but like all questions, there are subtleties that raise further questions.

General Rule The question of “a” vs “an” is always decided by the pronunciation of the word that follows the article, without exception. Words that begin with a vowel sound, such as apple, egg, or owl, use the indefinite article an. …

RegDwight Ѭſ道

21:07

And that.

Right!

How could I forget the blog!

Matt Эллен

because it's a bit cold over there, and spring is coming

good night!

David Wallace

@MattЭллен It's not odd most of the time, because most things in nature fit into the space spanned by the usual three. It's rare to encounter anything where the fourth one actually makes a difference.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Cerberus Who?

@Cerberus Thanks! Actually, there's an almost definite chance that I will win an iPod Touch in 1:35:51 hours.

David Wallace

21:24

@MrShinyandNew安宇 In my experience, they cannot choose to. But it certainly happens to them.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

23:59 UTC, that is.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10 hours ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Why does SE give free Apple hardware to precisely the people who are most likely to get it anyway, or already have it?

Timothy Mueller-Harder

21:39

@RegDwightѬſ道 What else would they give?

@RegDwightѬſ道 The purpose of the contest in general was to gain new members; that's why sharing links was required. The Apple hardware is relevant and a good idea, and most people on the site would like more Apple stuff.

(Not to rant or anything; I'm just making a point.)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

21:58

I understand all that.

I think my point is completely orthogonal to your (absolutely valid) point.

I'm just wondering why they are not giving out iPads to, say, Home Improvementers, or Boarders and Gamers.

Similarly, they could be providing Ask Differenters with cool board games, or a nice drill press.

David Wallace

Sorry, I'm a bit slow. How can I win an iPad?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You are exactly 2 minutes too late.

David Wallace

Yes, I was delayed on the way here. How could I have won one if I had not been retarded?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Though no, wait. The summer time is playing tricks on me.

I think you still have 1:57.

So go ask over 9000 questions, answer them all, upvote yourself, and link to yourself from your blog.

David Wallace

Hey, I can type fast. Maybe not that fast!

I presume there are topics that are off-limits?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

22:05

Actually I think this is one of those rare cases where UNDER 9000 would be actually enough.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace Details are here: thenewipadishere.com

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@DavidWallace you are supposed to read their FAQ, but I say we ain't got no time for that. Certainly if you post UNDER 9000 questions, some of them will end up being on-topic.

David Wallace

But I don't have any favourite apple devices to ask questions about. Unless you count that $2 peeler/corer thingy.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@RegDwightѬſ道 They want to give prizes relevant to the site topic. It makes sense, but you do have a point.

That's just generally the way contests work.

Sometimes.

On occasion.

Mahnax

Not all people on Home Improvement would even want an iPad.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

22:07

@DavidWallace Then just sit on your hands hoping that some of the winners won't claim their prizes, then book a flight to NY and grab the leftovers.

David Wallace

I think a flight to NY would probably cost me more than an iPad.

and it would mean I'd have to go to USA.

And isn't this sort of competition an abuse of StackExchange?

Timothy Mueller-Harder

No.

28 mins ago, by Timothy Mueller-Harder

@RegDwightѬſ道 The purpose of the contest in general was to gain new members; that's why sharing links was required. The Apple hardware is relevant and a good idea, and most people on the site would like more Apple stuff.

David Wallace

Suppose I offer to give away an iPad to anyone who can ask 20 questions about sushi on English.SE, and link to them from their blog. That would be an abuse of StackExchange. How is this different?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@TimothyMuellerHarder I understand that, they announced they would be doing just that a loong time ago. But what I'm wondering right now is whether it's the wisest idea if you want some fresh blood. I mean, the people most interested in iPads are on Ask Different already. So if you really want freshners, why not reach out to some Home Improvementers who haven't considered registering with the site just yet?

David Wallace

evil plan for next year's April Fools' Day begins to form

Timothy Mueller-Harder

22:11

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, the people most interested in iPads should be on Ask Different already. There's a very good chance they've never even heard of Stack Exchange, and this contest can help draw those people in.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@DavidWallace The earlier the better. We can't let this chaos happen again. We are much super cooler than that.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace This is official.

David Wallace

also, they can give them away to their friends, families, boyfriends etc.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace It's actually put on by balpha &co.

David Wallace

@RegDwightѬſ道 You say chaos, I say tomato.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

22:12

@TimothyMuellerHarder I know I know. Just brainstorming here. At any rate, I'd like to hear how many of the winners actually end up being noobs.

I only briefly skimmed the avatars this morning, and I already recognized several people whom I know from SO, from three years ago.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@RegDwightѬſ道 Good point. Not many, though again, most of the tyros got to SE via a link from a non-noob, which is the only point of the contest. The thought of winning an iDevice spurs current members to link, which gets new people on the site.

The intended winners are the existing members, really.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I see. A ponzi scheme!

Timothy Mueller-Harder

Yup, pretty much.

@DavidWallace I say cantaloupe.

David Wallace

OK, thank you both for answering my questions. I've lost interest already.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well I have a whopping 103 reps on Ask Different. If I read the Contest Rules correctly — and of course as an English mod there's no chance in hell that I have not —, I will be getting 103 iPads, and in only 103 minutes I must add. Coincidence? I think not!

David Wallace

22:20

If you get 103 iPads, can I have one please?

Gigili

No.

Mahnax

David Wallace

@Gigili Awake already?

Mahnax

It could be Reg.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I was just going to say that I'd be giving David at least one, you know, to save the planet. It's a long way to Owltown from China, but his Zeal Newland is kind of two blocks down the Yangtse.

David Wallace

22:21

Yes, that's exactly where it is.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I knew it. You see, I'm also subscribing to Geography.SE.

David Wallace

There's a Geography.SE? Wouldn't everything be general reference?

Timothy Mueller-Harder

I would be willing to bet there was at least one question there yesterday about Google Maps for NES.

David Wallace

NES?

Gigili

@DavidWallace Uhum, I'm having real sleep problems. cries Seriously, I don't know what's the point of 0200 AM I wake up at 0200 and can't get back to sleep.

Silly space, gee.

David Wallace

22:24

hug I wish there were something I could do to help.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@DavidWallace Yeah. "Where's Moscow?" — "Dude, you got them feet, go see for yourself!" "Where's Washington?" — "Dude! Teh feet! Use them!"

Mahnax

@TimothyMuellerHarder I just watched that on Facebook now.

@DavidWallace Nintendo Entertainment System.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace Google Maps's April Fools' joke.

I'll find a couple links.

BRB

David Wallace

Don't bother; I shan't follow them.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

►

Timothy Mueller-Harder

22:25

maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit

^^^ there's the actual Maps version

And Reg has the YT video.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

11

Geography

Proposed Q&A site for geographers who want to share their knowledge with others and keen geographers that want to seek knowledge about the geography of the world.

Currently in definition.

Geographic Information Systems – gis.stackexchange.com

Launched Q&A site for programmers, DBAs, Cartographers, Geographers and anyone interested in GIS professionally

Gigili

Speaking of contest, what a nonsense it is. They don't even bother to upvote other questions even though they're really interesting, I guess it's a managed plan to give them away to regular users.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

40

Geology

Proposed Q&A site for people interested in the science behind what's beneath our feet. Both for our earth's and other planetary bodies' sciences.

Currently in definition.

KitFox

You said bodies. titters

David Wallace

Hehe! I like the bit with the little viking guy walking from LA to NY.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

22:32

It's historically accurate, too.

David Wallace

I would never have dreamed otherwise.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace ?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@TimothyMuellerHarder in the video.

David Wallace

@TimothyMuellerHarder ? ?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

¿ ‽

David Wallace

22:34

@TimothyMuellerHarder There seem to be some parts missing from your question.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

Q: Punctuation when using a list of adjective pairs set apart by "yet"

I'm proofreading something, and came across this sentence: We believe the strength of our design is in our ability to be dynamic yet focused, clean yet inviting and organized yet exploratory. It kind of feels like it needs some more punctuation to be more readable, but the only idea I had w...

punctuation adjectives list

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace Yes, but when a question mark stands by itself in a chat, it's generally considered shorthand for "What?"

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I swear we had something like this before, but after searching for five minutes I give up.

David Wallace

@TimothyMuellerHarder Which is why you'll have to be more specific about what you're whatting about.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

22:36

The funny thing is, I ran across the question I am searching for earlier today.

Gigili

I guess you didn't get the point, silly.

David Wallace

@RegDwightѬſ道 My answer is going to get downvoted. I can just smell the wolves ready to pounce.

Oh, come on guys! It wasn't an invitation! sulks

Thank you.

Gigili

No problem.

David Wallace

@Gigili That was you?

Gigili

No?

Did you get the point, anyway @DavidWallace?

David Wallace

22:44

No, it escaped me completely. I'm stupid like that.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@DavidWallace What punctuation police would jump on an Oxford comma? It's venerable.

David Wallace

The punctuation police who learnt in school to eschew Oxford commas of course. Duh!

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@DavidWallace The message I replied to. Hover over it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well duh.

Jul 26 '11 at 13:00, by RegDwight

Asparagus always reminds me of that one girl Lewis Carroll once interviewed. She hated asparagus, and when he asked her why, she answered "well, if I liked it, I would have to eat it, and I can't stand it!"

David Wallace

@TimothyMuellerHarder OK, touche. Anyway, I assume you found the bit in the video that I was referring to.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

22:46

Yeah, I just hadn't seen it in 20 hours or so.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Of course the prescriptivists who were taught to hate the Oxford comma would hate it. The thing is, the prescriptivists who were taught to love it are prescriptivists, too.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

Forgot about that bit.

(No pun intended.)

(Hee, hee.)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Plus your answer now reads as if we had some kind of punctuation police here. You don't put us in the best of lights now, do you.

Anyway. Before calling it a day, I was going to ask something different.

0

Q: I appreciate your correcting

Possible Duplicate: When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive pronoun? Recently we had a discussion with my friend about the sentence I appreciate your correcting. For me, this sentence sounds a bit off. I'd say I appreciate your corrections or I appreciate that you co...

verbs sentence

I am no longer sure about my closing it as a dupe.

See the comments.

Gigili

@DavidWallace Okay.

See you in the other world.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I'm still kind of on the fence, but if anyone wants to push me off of it, be my guest.

David Wallace

22:51

@RegDwightѬſ道 It's ambiguous.

The question could be asking about using a possessive pronoun with a gerund; or it could be asking about whether "to correct" has to be transitive. In the former case, it's a dupe of the one you linked to; in the latter case, well, it's probably a dupe of some question or other, but not that one.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yeah.

Well I commented that I am open to reopening, and pinged Shoe who is likely to be most interested in seeing his comment become an answer, so I'll check back tomorrow where it'll have gotten me.

Meanwhile, you carry on waiting for your iPads.

I'm out for today. Night all!

Gigili

Good night Reg.

David Wallace

Good night Reg.

Gigili

Wasn't it a nice Q @TimothyMuellerHarder?

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Gigili Sorry, what?

Gigili

22:57

The one you answered just now.

I thought you only answer nice questions?

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Gigili This one?

@Gigili Where did you get that idea?

Gigili

It doesn't answer my question anyway.

David Wallace

@Gigili +1 for being nice.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Gigili Oh, heheh, didn't notice that was you. Sorry it didn't answer your question; in what way is it lacking?

Gigili

@DavidWallace Thank you, but I am very nice. Mind to reconsider?

David Wallace

23:03

Well, I clicked the triangle very hard.

Gigili

@TimothyMuellerHarder I mostly wanted to change the FB notification sound so that it differs from SMS.

user19161

So we lose rep when a user is removed.

David Wallace

and I actually meant the question was nice :-)

Gigili

Oh, I'll try to sleep then.

user19161

At least the rep history now tells us why the rep is lost.

David Wallace

23:13

Do you mean, that if I said YOU were nice (or even very nice), you'd stay awake?

Gigili

Enough memory in SIM or on SIM, David?

> There isn't enough memory for all contacts on SIM.

Problem solved.

David Wallace

@Gigili I'd say "in the SIM".

@Gigili How is your tooth?

Gigili

23:30

Not bad, better than yesterday.

Thanks for asking.

David Wallace

but you are still going to seek some help for it?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like your mother.

Gigili

Of course, I can't live with the pain. I'll go to the dentist tomorrow which is really scary!

If that's what you asked, my mind doesn't work properly.

David Wallace

0

Q: polygon inside a polygon

i have point set lie on a different planar faces. then, i found the boundary points relevant to each face and made 3D polygons. when i examine the polygons, i found some polygons are located inside another larger polygon but at different height level. also some polygon boarder of small faces touc...

geometry computational-geometry 3d

Does this seem like NARQ to you? Or am I missing something?

Gigili

What does it have to do with mathematics? I don't understand the question.

Oh, computational geometry. I know nothing about it.

David Wallace

OK, just thought you might have an opinion. Never mind. I'm trying to work out if I can be bothered answering it. Or understanding it, for that matter.

Gigili

23:47

Umm, sorry.

David Wallace

@Gigili You have my sympathy, honestly. (Actually, I misread this remark earlier, which is why I didn't reply). I'm sure everything will be fine, and there's no reason to find it scary.

Gigili

Thank you.

David Wallace

Dentists used to be scary, but with modern dentistry techniques now; everything is done as painlessly as possible, and there's very little scope for things to go wrong.

I've just discovered a section in the book that I've been working on, that I now completely disagree with. I'm going to have to remove it, and rewrite a huge chunk. I feel my completion date slipping further and further away.

Gigili

@DavidWallace I hope so.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Gigili Maybe change the SMS sound?

The only way to change the FB sound would be if there were some setting within the Facebook app.

Gigili

23:55

@TimothyMuellerHarder I'm not sure, that's why I asked it.

David Wallace

@Gigili A few months ago, one of my teeth broke. My dentist replaced the broken part with some fancy new type of crown, and it now looks and feels good. It ws very quick and there was basically no pain at all.

Timothy Mueller-Harder

@Gigili I'll check.

Gigili

speechless

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…