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2:00 AM
maybe some jambon
or sliced egg and capers
So it looks like Brexit is going to put paid to London's financial hegemony. Too bad for the Brits.
they voted for it.
if it makes them happy
where would it all go to? Ireland? Frankfurt?
@Mitch Ireland is looking like the form horse here.
Frankfurt has like 1% of London's volume, but that could grow.
I think it is ironic that the two places that are the centers of language culture for the modern world (English) are intent on not being centers of all other culture.
Frankfurt is where I worked in Germany, incidentally.
2:03 AM
@Mitch Definitions and axioms are the same in that they are all logical statements with is ('=' is not exclusive to definitions). But they are clearly different in that when you define something, you're introducing a new concept, but when you're not defining something, you're making a statement out of concepts we previously agreed upon.
But this is not where I wanted this conversation to go.
I love my wife, but oh Euclid!
all these countries will be speaking English but without the ... something something... for being able to speak it.
@Mitch I just wanted to counter the generalized "facts all come with a POV", trying to get you to concede that that means "any fact can be non-fact from some POV", and then prove it wrong by giving obvious counterexamples.
@Færd You can make an axiom for which = is not involved, or if it is.... well that certainly goes further afield than what you wanted.
@Robusto How so? Because some multinationals will move certain offices and employees to the Continent?
2:06 AM
where did you want this to go?
> History of bread in Japan

While the rice has been the principle nourishment for Japanese diet and it has eaten from the 3rd century B.C. [3] , the cultivation of wheat began in the first half of Yayoi Era (3rd century B.C. – 3rd century A.D.). Its production was always limited for its instability compared to the rice and the price of wheat was half of the young hay, which could be used for animal feeds. In this context, wheat was considered as the food for the famine [4] . In the 7th century, Chinese monks introduced “Sakubei” in Japan, a kind of spaghetti made of wheat and the origin of
@Cerberus They will prefer to do business with EU members, simple as that.
It's interesting that/if Japan should really have no traditional staple food based on ground, high-carb plant seeds.
Not even rice bread, apparently?
I'm still not 100% convinced, though.
@Cerberus Yes, well, this reminds me of Dr. Johnson's remark about a dog dancing on its hind legs: "It's not done well, but you're surprised it can be done at all."
@Cerberus I wonder if the high content of simple carbs in rice is the source of the high incidence of adult onset diabetes in non-obese Japanese.
2:08 AM
@Robusto Oh, sure, but it remains to be seen what the exact consequences will be.
@Robusto Who's the dog in this situation?
@Robusto Oh? Was that the Japanese opinion on wheat bread?
@Cerberus The consequences will absolutely be a reduction in English financial institutions. And influence.
Most probably, but to what extent?
@Cerberus Nope. My opinion on what they describe as Japanese bread.
2:09 AM
@Færd let's cut out the middle man and just go ahead and give counter examples.
@Mitch Full disclosure: He likened a woman preaching to that.
@Robusto haha. women.
@Robusto So...what kind of bread is this?
@Cerberus Remains to be seen. Right now there are over 700K jobs in London finance. Even if they lose only 10%, that's still a tough nut to swallow.l
@Cerberus China similarly wasn't/isn't much into bread
2:10 AM
@Cerberus I honestly don't know. I have never seen Japanese bread. My wife hates regular bread, and she never was served it at home, so ...
that can't be right, can it?
@Robusto Yeah, although they probably won't be missed by non-lobbyists...
@Robusto It seems they have some variations on European bread, and also very European bread like baguettes, nowadays.
Brexit is going to prove a disaster for the Brits. Just as Trump is a disaster for us. Let's hope both countries can survive.
@Mitch You mean examples of facts that are invariably true?
Sure, it will be bad for Britain.
2:12 AM
@Robusto forgetting laws and borders and such, since everything is so electronic now, it should be easy to move operations to anywhere in the world.
But, if their financial sector should be reduced, that might actually be good for the country.
@Cerberus I would never put it past the Japanese to mimic something. They have won awards for their "scotch" even.
@Færd um, I don't know, you're the one who wanted to give examples of something.
@Robusto Yes, the article mentioned something like that.
@Mitch Yes, but you have to consider the infrastructure of a ready-made workforce that does that kind of thing. Why do you think Boston and Silicon Valley have so many high-tech jobs? Because that's where people go who want to work in that field.
2:14 AM
@Robusto they could be outsourced. like all your online bank tellers could be EastEnders.
They won't outsource financial types.
@Cerberus why not?
Everybody hates having to work with outsourced employees, in most cases.
everybody is going that way.
@Mitch Seriously, what's a bank teller? If that job is more than .001% of the financial workforce I'll be very surprised.
2:15 AM
@Mitch Not bankers!
remote working is slowly taking over
@Mitch I hope it never catches up to me. I came out west to escape work.
@Robusto true, that's one place where automation has almost entirely replaced humans. so bad choice on my part
Then why is the number of flights increasing continually, also in the West?
Despite remote work.
It shouldn't be necessary.
@Cerberus they certainly could. day traders working from their laptops at a coffee shop
2:16 AM
@Mitch They could, but they don't want to.
@Robusto You're being recruited as we speak
They want to have their peers close by.
when I say that, no, I do not have a job referral for you.
Unnecessary though it might be.
@Mitch Noooooooo!
2:17 AM
@Mitch Forget it then.
@Cerberus like the 'paperless' office
which is finally becoming true, after years of computers increasing paper usage, it is finally going down
@Mitch We'll see the paperless about the same time we see the paperless bathroom.
If you had a choice, would you prefer having to deal with outsourced call centres, as a client?
I think not.
2:18 AM
@Færd You didn't have examples in mind? I thought you were trying to get me to concede something. So, yes, I concede.
@Robusto japan has that don't they
Their bosses only outsource call centres because the bosses themselves don't have to deal with them daily.
@Cerberus isn't that how it almost entirely works now?
Not here.
But I understand it works that way in Anglo-Saxon countries.
@Mitch If it exists and it's weird, Japan has it. You may be sure of that.
But only because the people who have to deal with the outsourced call centres aren't the ones deciding.
2:20 AM
@Mitch I'm just feeling we're just talking. What's the point of me countering something my interlocutor doesn't know what is.
@Cerberus hm...I see that justification but also justification like the prevalence of e-shopping, not even bothering with stores in-real-life
@Robusto tries to think of weird things
Sure, but there are additional advantages to online shopping.
searches for it
You don't have to leave the house.
And the quality is often the same.
Retail is taking quite a hit right now, and will continue to do so.
2:22 AM
Neither applies to outsourced colleagues.
Brick and mortar stores are dead as disco.
@Færd If you gave the examples you're thinking of it would make all our conversation that much more concrete, as opposed to arbitrary manipulation of words.
If I can buy it on Amazon, I usually do. I hate going into stores and finding they don't have my size, or they have my size but not in the color I want, etc.
You're in the building anyway, so it's no great effort to tell them to come to your office. If they're in India, you have to Skype with them.
@Cerberus and those advantages (some of them, not knowing hich ones you're thinking of) are shared by online banking
2:24 AM
And the quality is normally worse in poorer countries.
@Mitch Well, for us, consumers, yes, outside help desks. But not for bankers.
@Cerberus groceries are harder to do online because the time taken to make all your choices online scanning a huge menu is about the same time as it takes to walk through the grocery store and pull the items off the shelves.
@Mitch That's part of it.
Another part is you want it right now, not in two hours.
And individual delivery is expensive.
@Cerberus That doesn't stop companies from doing just that. One of the other reasons I retired. I hated Skype calls to the subcontinent, where you're online with 15 strange accents that all sound the same.
@Robusto I don't like not holding it in my hand, for color, and feel of fabric. usually fit doesn't matter
Jun 9 '15 at 10:53, by Robusto
Possibly one of the worst crimes Britain perpetrated on the world was to give English to the subcontinent.
2:26 AM
@Cerberus skype and other virtual meeting methods are getting better and better.
if only we could fix the time zone thing.
I have a solution for that
@Mitch Maybe later. Gotta go now.
Good local time, all.
but 1) nobody is going to like it.
Jul 9 '15 at 13:50, by Robusto
The subcontinent just asked me if I locked a certain file in git. I looked at the file and it last got touched before I got here. So I said no. They were insistent. Then they asked me if I was Rob <lastNameHere> I said no. They went away and thought about it for five minutes. Then they came back and said "I think its other Rob it looks like." Seriously.
and 2) I want full IP rights
@Robusto Exactly. But would the boss do that with his secretary? No: just like you, he doesn't like having to deal with outsourced employees on a daily basis; and he has the power to not do that. Which is why I don't think bankers would outsource departments they have to deal with themselves.
2:27 AM
and 3) I want a plaque
for my office wall.
@Færd Bai!
oh. and an office
@Færd later! we're having fun!
@Robusto Hilarious.
@Cerberus Agreed, but the president of the company doesn't come into contact with the vast majority of the workforce.
@Robusto at 11pm on Friday night.
2:28 AM
@Robusto Indeed not.
But it trickles down to some degree.
@Mitch Or 6:00 a.m. on a Monday morning, before dem SC guys go home.
Not to contact with private consumers.
Nor to developers, apparently.
@Robusto "Are you sure it's not you?"
But I think it trickles down to bankers quite deeply.
@Mitch I checked twice. My name is not <lastNameHere>. Not even close.
Oh, and then there's this:
Apr 2 '15 at 13:33, by Robusto
Will someone please inform the subcontinent that chains of "thank you" messages are poor Skype etiquette.
2:31 AM
@Cerberus uh...I've worked for more than one CEO who had a 'secretary' (really event planner/exce assistant that was -entirely remote). Always available by phone.
@Robusto oh. I could never agree to that. That just would not happen
@Mitch And did he like that?
Apr 2 '15 at 13:35, by Robusto
Also, if I have learned anything in my lifetime, it's that people who wear a lot of cologne should not be allowed in an office situation. Thank you.
@Cerberus it was his choice
Was it a company that was trying to save money?
no, that was just how he liked it.
2:33 AM
also there are lots of AI chatbot services that are being developed to do meeting coordination/secretary stuff.
I'm sure the director of Deutsche would like that...
probably more of a startup thing than a big corporation. where the CEO, when they move from company to company drag some staff along with them
It's also a matter of how rich you are, I think, in general.
@Cerberus seriously. can 'work' for more than the CEO. secretaries have been almost entirely removed from less than for exec positions, I expect it will go soon.
2:36 AM
If you build lots of very expensive buildings, with ugly modernist marble and whatnot, you're more likely to have lots of high-paid personnel higher up the company, I would expect.
@Mitch I thought that was mainly for the money.
As it was for my parents.
@Cerberus I read this article about the CEO of some company who didn't have a cell phone. He just showed up and expected things to happen. Didn't ever pay for taxis, just invited people along and just 'assumed' the other person would cover it.
My mother used to dictate all her letters to her secretary, and she preferred it that way.
@Cerberus Secretaries are few and quite far between these days.
That takes mental skill to be able to compose without seeing the whole narrative.
a lost art
@Mitch Right, so he probably wouldn't have wanted to have to fiddle with Skype sessions unless it was absolutely necessary?
2:38 AM
dictation software does it for most docs nowadays
@Robusto My mother did have a secretary in her new company, but shared with more people. She had to type her own letters from then on.
@Cerberus maybe it would be OK if somebody ran it for him on their own laptop? the article didn't get into all the details.
@Mitch Sounds like Being There:
@Robusto I think the guy was just considered a kind of a dick.
What, no one-box for IMDB?
2:40 AM
@Mitch Wouldn't it have been even more convenient for him if people just showed up at his office?
yesterday, by Robusto
Still, it feels cold as a Republican's heart right now.
I don't think that got enough attention. So I'm bringing it back.
@Robusto Hmm apparently not.
@Cerberus look man I'm just telling you half remembered things filtered through what someone else wrote from a couple hours meeting
I know.
@Robusto I laughed
2:41 AM
Why didn't you have your secretary keep minutes?
until I stopped
@Cerberus exactly.
when I get my plaque I'll let you know
wait...when I get an office wall for it.
just the wall. the rest doesn't have to be there yet
You shouldn't stick dental plaque on your walls.
@Cerberus Maybe because Europe is on metric time? Duh.
@Cerberus it's surprisingly adhesive
@Robusto I don't know what you mean. Surely a hundred minutes go into everyone's hour?
@Mitch Lovely.
2:45 AM
@Cerberus No, it only seems that way since Trump got into the White House.
Ah, how time plods by.
suivre (F) is a derivative of sequere (L) right?
Everybody ready for a dance-off?
You've been served.
what's with the shirt thing at the end?
doing a michael jackson crotch grab?
@Mitch Wise beyond his years.
2:52 AM
@Mitch Most probably; pourquoi?
@Cerberus 1) I cant read this because they don't know how to format. 2) I was thinking about 'second' and found it cognate to sequere.
before second, English seems to have used 'other'.
which is somewhat dismissive.
Just as Latin normally used alter for "second".
"What comes after first?"
Primus, alter, tertius.
"Oh who cares, they're other"
@Cerberus huh. L didn't use secundus?
nobody ever uses 'oneth'
2:59 AM
It did.
their loss
But alter was more "normal".
It depends on the exact context/use.
?? people vs animals?
3:00 AM
@Mitch Control-F, then "latin" or "lat" or "lat.".
> Du lat. pop. sĕquĕre
@Mitch Mm it's complicated, I have forgotten.
Except that alter is commoner.
@Cerberus holy crap...all the way at the end? for an etymological dictionary? My eyes hurt
@Cerberus I'll use that in all my Latin track and field announcing gigs
dude..is the sun coming up for you?
3:02 AM
Mine just went down.
Well, an hour ago.
I'm presuming Cerb is further east than either of us.
What time is it in Amsterdam right now? Like 5:00 a.m.?
Survey says ... 5:03!
and that's my reverse alarm clock.
later dudes and dudettes
@Cerb, you oughta like that one.
@Mitch This is a nice summary of the use of alter v. secundus, if you read German: books.google.nl/…
@Robusto Hah.
I think I shouldn't comment!
3:19 AM
Night all. Gotta run.
1 hour later…
4:49 AM
Are any of you out there familiar with the game LinguiSHTIK? It is quite a fun English game, one you all should at least check out.
2 hours later…
6:19 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Hidden or disguised subordinate conjunctions by Chandrasekhar Dwarakanath on english.SE
3 hours later…
9:40 AM
Q: Single word for 'single-word-request'?

English StudentEdit: Perhaps I was not clear enough or maybe some readers are literal in their understanding: my question is not about the request itself; I am curious to know if there is a single-word synonym for 'a single word that can express a multi-word description of something' which is what we summarise ...

8 hours later…
6:00 PM
erm that user has the same name as mine. Awkward.
that isn't you? well, that's good news :D
No, that's not me. :D
any unicode buffs here? 🎧 is putting an extra character (0020) in the title of webpages in firefox
the character code is 1F3A7
it looks fine in the tab header, just the window title has a problem
possibly an ubuntu problem
6:18 PM
On my computer, it seems the Window titles can't display Unicode at all.
Because the standard font that I chose doesn't support it.
Times New Roman doesn't have most Unicode characters.
but how do you view emoji if you don't have a font that supports them?!!??!?!?!?
You can't.
As far as I know.
But many web pages let you temporarily load a font in the browser, a web font.
So you can still view them in web pages.
But apparently the title of the browser window cannot access web fonts.
@Mitch Oh hey Mitchy by the way, I'm not that user from the main site that asked "Single word for 'single-word-request'" question, thought I'd let you know so you don't mix me up with someone else.
= )
As an experiment, you could copy-paste the Unicode into the name of a file, see whether the OS can display that.
it displays fine everywhere except the title bar of the windows
6:21 PM
I can't see it.
you don't have the right fonts.
so it displays fine for everyone who's up to date :p
it even works in the terminal
6:28 PM
So it's probably different from your case.
But it does show that there is an essential difference between tab titles and window titles in Firefox.
probably, since you don't necessarily have the fonts required to display all the characters you're trying to display
Yes, but I do have the font for this.
ah. I see now
For the linguistic character.
But the OS doesn't supply them to window titles, unless I explicitly choose that font as the (only) window-title font.
the problem I'm having is that the window title bar is adding an extra character next to the one I'm giving it
6:31 PM
Right, it's somewhat different.
6:42 PM
@Cerberus Do you download videos from Youtube? If yes, then with which software? I'm looking for one but it has to be free of course.
@englishstudent I think I used this one the last time I needed to do that:
You could try it.
OK. Thanks!
7:01 PM
@englishstudent It didn't sound like you (but then chat is different). You both have similar backgrounds, but if backgrounds determined us, we'd all be robots.
Do you, as someone who is not them, understand the question?
I wish the USA had been banned from using names from Europe to name their places. Dublin, California sounds so wrong.
@MattE.Эллен Versailles, Illinois pronounced Ver-sell-iss, ilinoy
The area where I grew up has either englishy names like Windsor Gardens and Prince of Exeter (is that even a thing), or Indian tribe names that were never ever ever even near the area (Comanche Rd, Arapahoe St)
I mean, I guess there could have been a Prince of Exeter, before Alfred unified the Britons
more likely an alderman
7:09 PM
In the Boston area everything is English. Like some weird scrambling of a British Gazetteer.
I think "cape cod" is unique
but Plymouth isn't
not even "new Plymouth"
All the names on Cape Cod: Truro, Wellfleet, uh
Province Town?
@MattE.Эллен New New York
@MattE.Эллен We got back at them.
America (Dutch pronunciation: [ɑˈmeːrikaː]) is a town in the Dutch province of Limburg, originated in the late 19th century. It is a part of the municipality of Horst aan de Maas, and lies about 16 km northwest of Venlo. In 2001, the town of America had 991 inhabitants. The built-up area of the town was 0.21 km², and had 397 residences. Including the surrounding countryside, America had 2190 inhabitants as of 2006. == See also == Amerika, Saxony == References == === Notes... ===
7:11 PM
Westward Ho!
The exclamation not the town.
Besides, it's not just the Yanks.
Santiago (pop. 5 million) is the capital city of Chile, named in honour of Saint James. Four other notable cities are also often referred to simply as "Santiago": Santiago de Compostela, Spain (pop. 100,000), to which the Way of St. James (El Camino de Santiago) leads. Santiago de Cuba, Cuba (pop. 500,000) Santiago de los Caballeros, Dominican Republic (pop. 690,000) Santiago, Philippines (pop. 132,000) Santiago may also refer to: Santiago, Spanish name for James, son of Zebedee, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus. Santiago (surname) Santiago (name), a Spanish given name Santiago!, a shortened...
Look at "other places".
haha..looking at a map of Cape Cod, it's like I said, like the guy who wa typesetting a British map dropped it on the floor scattering all the names around and picked up randomly.
@Cerberus The Russians too
7:14 PM
Novosibirsk - New Siberia, like the old needed improving.
Oh, sure.
Actually, they do seem like everything east of the Urals is an indigenous name
And the various Novgorods.
But from different countries?
Well, for that matter, every other town in England is 'Newtown' or 'Newton'
Or Featherstonehaugh
Cape Cod has an Orleans
That's not even British
7:16 PM
maybe a long time ago?
France was once part of England, or the other way around depending.
> Novgorod is one of the most important historic cities in Russia... On August 15, 1941, during World War II, the city was occupied by the German Army. Its historic monuments were systematically annihilated. The Red Army liberated the city on January 19, 1944. Out of 2,536 stone buildings, fewer than forty remained standing.
Everybody thinks they're so original
I'm original
As original as it gets
The Nazis were just unimaginably terrible, even more terrible than IS, I think.
7:19 PM
in France every other (small) town is called Belleville.
Or Ville Neuf.
or Neuilly
Or Paris
The only French town I know is La Rochelle
@Cerberus and the people who founded it thought they were coming up with something so new.
@M.A.R. there's a ton of them in the US
7:20 PM
(I guess I'm the only one who did GCSE French)
@MattE.Эллен which level is that? O? A? Z?
(Everyone one in our textbook was from La Rochelle)
my book it was Neuilly
7:21 PM
Don't be Neuilly
Or was that Madeleine?
@Mitch Well, it is new.
new but not original
No one calls their new town OriginalTown
That would be weird
In Germany they do seem to be al called Neustadt
but a large number of Reichenbach's
7:23 PM
Originalcester, that's what I'll call it
pronounced "orjster"
That is original
What does bach mean anyway?
Did I say that?
Or was I thinking really loud?
bach = brook or stream
Probably neither.
Ah, I was going to say brook!
Because it's beek in Dutch.
And German -ch is often Dutch -k.
Kerk = Kirche.
Greek cyriacos, or something.
I guess I have Webster to blame for naming a town Glocester (Rhode Island), dropping the u
7:27 PM
they write Gloucester here but pronounce it glawstuh
stupid writing
that's pretty close
to how we pronounce it
Just like Wooster.
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