I liked 4 - 6 best.

I like to be taken on an adventure, so I don't necessarily notice if something doesn't quite make sense

and then I read reviews and such and all the plotholes are revealed

@Kitḫ This may be heresy. But every time I read LotR I like it a tiny bit less.

The holes aren't that bad. It's just some of that "hmm" upon further reflection kind of stuff.

I think I reached my maximum likingness of LotR and can only go downhill from here.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't want to know. I have read them exactly twice, and will read them once more with my kids. Other than that, I don't want to risk my enduring faith that I love them (the books).

@MattЭллен I don't mind plotholes as much as deus ex machina or things that are just really inconsistent with the rest of the story.

Like, why does no one speak in Hutt to Jaba the Hutt?

Right. Like that.

They're not a corpulent blob?

Oh it was a rhetorical question.

@MattЭллен And how do so many alien species understand other languages without any ability at all to speak those languages.

Sorry. Caffeine levels not yet restored to normal.

But we weren't talking about Star Wars. Oh, I am so confused.

@aediaλ Yeah, inconsistency would ruin the story, I think. I don't mind a bit of deus ex machina now and again, or magufins, so long as there's good reason

@aediaλ Harry Potter involves a fair amount of deus ex machina in a way. Lots of times harry succeeds because someone was there to help him.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 my mind boggles!

@Kitḫ There's lots to love about the books. But after you've read them a few times you start finding flaws.

She does a pretty good job of introducing something that will be used later without making it exceptionally obvious.

@MattЭллен Magufins?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Lalalala! Not listening!

@Kitḫ why does not one speak pot to Harry the potter?

@aediaλ that one item that solves all the problems instantly

probably misspelled it

@Kitḫ Ok I won't point them out. But I think you'll notice them when you read the books, especially considering that the movies actually fixed a few flaws when they made changes (they introduced other flaws though, so... pfft)

oh, @aedia, MacGuffin

But sometimes, they will be studying Charms, and I'll think, "I wonder what problem they will have that will require them to need Polyjuice Potion."

@MattЭллен isn't a macguffin an item that is important to the story for no reason other than "it's important to the story"?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yes

that sort of thing

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm. Yeah. I don't mind that when it's a little hidden, or it's like, the story is about teamwork so it makes sense, or it's just that the hero can't die so they still get into scrapes but duh, they can't die or it would end the story...

"plot coupon" hahaha

One of the things I like about Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is that he sort of tackles these things head on.

@Kitḫ My problem is that she introduces an extremely world-changing concept like polyjuice potion and never deals with any of the ramifications. Imagine if you could transform your body into another body! People would transform into their sexual partners to try new sexual acts, or get new perspectives. crimes would be committed all the time. There'd need to be many layers of defence throughout wizard society for this sort of thing. Yet, there isn't. It's just a complicated potion, that's all.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes. I agree. That's actually what I was getting at with HP: MoR.

@Kitḫ heheh

The first really funny scene is in the first chapter where he asks Professor McGonagall to prove that magic exists.

She transforms into a cat and it blows his mind.

Sadly Harry isn't really the sort to ask that kind of question, it's more of a Hermione question.

"How is this possible? How can your matter fit into cat size matter? How can your brain still work if it is a cat brain?" etc

@MrShinyandNew安宇 In that book, he is sorted into Ravenclaw.

@Kitḫ see? another inconsistency. Hermione should have been in Ravenclaw.

Actually the books should have been about Hermione from start to finish.

Yeah, no kidding.

In HP:MoR, she sits, they put the hat on her and it shouts "Ravenclaw!" immediately.

It's sort of a "well, duh!"

Also, he doesn't bother with befriending Ron.

I'm not much into fan fiction, but it's actually a pretty fun read. fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/…

@Kitḫ wait this is an actual thing!?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, yes. It's great.

sigh when fanfic eclipses the original fic... sigh.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes!

I really enjoyed reading it, but it made me think of the whole series differently.

It will be funnier if you have read the books, but there is plenty there that describes something in a way that points out that it is ridiculous to gloss over this point.

Also, he develops Minerva McGonagall's character more. I really like her, and I like her even better in this book.

I don't know if I want to read it and make the whole series even more ridiculous.

Oh, man, it will make you howl with laughter.

Just read the first chapter.

I think it would be a better story if it were centered around Hermione and if one of her challenges was to re-rehabilitate Harry after years of crushing abuse by his foster parents

We should write that.

Well, the first thing is that instead of those foster parents, he is raised by scientists.

I have never read, nor do I intend to read, Harry Potter.

Harry actually decides to try to win over Draco.

heheh: "according to Mum, there was a whole magical world out there. How could anyone keep something like that a secret? More magic? That seemed like a rather suspicious sort of excuse."

:D

The first one that got me was from the quotation above: "I thought to myself, what kind of parent names their child Dudley Dursley?"

@Mahnax oh, don't be like that. It's not all bad. I consider myself rational and I hate plot holes as much as Jasper likes correcting spelling. But I still recommend people read HP. It's fun, and overall a passing grade.

@Mahnax You don't intend to, but it'll happen by accident

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Mrrrrrf.

It just doesn't interest me.

I'm not saying it's bad, by any means.

@Mahnax wait, you're still in high school, right? Yeah maybe you're not mature enough yet to have the perspective to appreciate it. ;)

you'll awake one chilly July morning with a copy of Harry Potter and the Thing of Thing in hands, wondering how it got there and scarier still, what appens next

Here's the one I was referring to earlier that made me almost pee my pants:

"You turned into a cat! A SMALL cat! You violated Conservation of Energy! That's not just an arbitrary rule, it's implied by the form of the quantum Hamiltonian! Rejecting it destroys unitarity and then you get FTL signaling! And cats are COMPLICATED! A human mind can't just visualize a whole cat's anatomy and, and all the cat biochemistry, and what about the neurology? How can you go on thinking using a cat-sized brain?"

I was happy when the word putative first showed up but then the other rationalthinkythings that keep popping in are just a little jarring. It's like someone was like "let's cleverly work falsification into a story! it will be a great tutorial!"

@MattЭллен we don't have chilly mornings in July

@MrShinyandNew安宇 that's what makes it scarier!

@MattЭллен hides under blanket

@aediaλ I should've mentioned it was written by a rationalist.

Why is it cold in July?!

It's chilly because it is scary!

Wait, there are no blankets in Computing Science. hides under pile of boring JavaScript assignments

Here, you can use the hidey-sack.

:D

@Kitḫ Why thank you.

Damn, mtg. Later.

Read it! It's funny!

cya @Kit :)

@Kitḫ Bye!

@Kitḫ I figured that out but I'm not sure if I can ignore it. Maybe. I do want to read it. It's not as if I should, you know, be doing w*^% or something today...

@Kitḫ Have... fun?

@aediaλ Don't ignore it. It's intentional. And it's part of the humor!

@Kitḫ It's funny so far.

I'm just at the part where McGonnagal turns into a cat

@Kitḫ Okay. Not ignore, then. Enjoy properly as part of the story rather than having it seem jarring. I mean, I do like it so far; we were just talking about story-disruptions and this is a big'un.

Okay, okay, it's gotten a lot better already.

heheh, harry analyzing the wizarding economy in terms of the price of gold vs silver

> On the other hand, one competent hedge fundie could probably own the whole wizarding world within a week. Harry filed away this notion in case he ever ran out of money, or had a week free.

See? See? It's good, huh?

Oooh, 66 rep til I can vote to close.

@Kitḫ Kiamlaluno knows Italian.

@Mahnax are you ready for the responsibility?

you'll be tidying up the site with the rest of us!

@MattЭллен Yes. My flag weight is decent, if I do say so myself.

551.1191

> "The rules seem sorta consistent but they don't mean anything! I'm not even going to ask how a pouch ends up with voice recognition and natural language understanding when the best Artificial Intelligence programmers can't get the fastest supercomputers to do it after thirty-five years of hard work," Harry gasped for breath, "but what is going on?"

@Mahnax that's a pretty good weight

@MattЭллен I would say so.

I have two declined flags; one was an accident, the other is debatable.

I have 2 declined as well.

yeah, it's natural. Mods and 10K+ users won't agree with us all the time

that's why there're flags

Crap. What was I doing?

juggling chain saws?

fixing a DB issue?

@Kitḫ W-rk? Nah, that can't be it.

reading Harry Potter fanfiction?

Singing?

Tracking a goose?

Hello.

@MattЭллен I mentioned I had a bit of a reading problem, didn't I?

Hi @Donut.

Hi @Donut.

I am reading about Present Perfect Continous and I saw this example:

@Kitḫ yessum

@Donut What brings you to our pit of insanity?

@Mahnax shh He's telling us.

@Kitḫ adding in "add student" links to hybrid accounts?

@Kitḫ Oh, didn't notice.

@MattЭллен Someone has been paying attention. I did that yesterday though.

@MattЭллен That's enough.

Took me ten seconds.

@Donut Please continue.

Who's been driving my car?! What's the difference between this sentence and Who drove my car?

Good question.

@Donut Heh. The first implies that someone has been doing it recently, IMO.

Whereas the second could mean anytime.

Who has been driving my car? could also be a repeated, indefinite action.

This makes sense.

Who drove my car? indicates one specific instance of the car being driven.

@Kitḫ True.

Thanks @Kitḫ

Is that enough? Did that help?

@Donut Depending on the context, there might be little difference. If one morning I wake up and my car is parked poorly in the driveway and the fender is hanging off, I might yell either of these loudly. On the other hand, suppose I have just come back from a week of vacation and see my car in that state. I might be a little more likely to use the first one ("been driving") because I think someone has been using my car multiple times.

Yes, I was just curious in the difference.

@Donut It's a good question.

Hi @jcolebrand.

(As Kit says, a repeated, indefinite action - I'm not sure that they just drove the car once, so I'll say they've been driving it rather than that they drove it.)

I would probably use it if I wasn't sure when it had been driven as well.

Who drove my car last night?

versus

Who has been driving my car this week?

Who has been drinking all my coffee?

Could be multiple drivers there as well, I suppose.

In fact to my ears "*who has been driving my car last night?" would be ungrammatical

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Good point.

@aediaλ I am not advanced, and this was hard to understand, but I did it!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 what about "who has been driving my car these past nights?"

@MattЭллен Hmm. ? for me. Probably accept but not utter, I guess? "Who-all's been drivin' my car these pas' few nights?" I think that's closer to what I would actually say if I had to use "past nights" somehow. And if I had a car.

@Kit, what deck do you have on defense? Mine sucks in the current war.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Supelegore Redux

Do elaborate.

It shouldn't work, but seems to.

I'll tell you about it in the club.

K.

@aediaλ yes, I suppose it's not a good example. Not particularly idiomatic

"Who has been driving my car the last few nights?"

yes, @Kit, that's a better example

"Who has been eating my porridge?"

@Kitḫ Ahh!

goldy fox and the three hares

"Someone has been sleeping in my bed."

You misspelled everyone.

Hey!

Not everyone.

"Someone's been sleeping in my bed, and they're eating my porridge"

Just most everyone.

yep! not me

Okay okay. Everyone except Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich.

And Matt.

I'm in a select group

giggle

You should be like proud and stuff.

I'm pretty sure you haven't been in my bed either, owl.

And I know you have not eaten my porridge.

That's what they all say.

sounds like a trend

I haven't been in her bed.

But then again, I'm a Matt, so I suppose that was already said.

:D

Someone slept in my bed <- I don't know when

Owls are smart, dammit.

Someone's been sleeping in my bed <- recently

@MattЭллен I think that works and my suspicion is that it depends on the length of time of the ongoing event vs the timeframe you anchor it to. "last night" is more like a point of time, and so doesn't contain ongoing events, or maybe driving a car takes a long time relative to "last night" and so the event doesn't fit in the container (grammatically).

Am I right?

@Donut Joo. Well, somewhat.

@Donut more like you don't SAY when

Yeah, a gentleman gentledonut never tells.

@Donut yes, the implication is that the sleeping was or is on-going

@Mahnax You are a minor.

Better than c minor.

Thank for help again. :)

And don't get me started on d sharp minor.

@RegDwightѬſ道 pff, that's just e-flat

@RegDwightѬſ道 thwack

@MrShinyandNew安宇 you mean e-appartment?

@RegDwightѬſ道 only if I'm speaking merkin

@Kitḫ Indeed.

thwacks all around

rubs head

Bye all!

Later!

cya @Mahnax

I'm off too

@Kit apotheosis!

Katharsis!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 How did you—?

Wait. What?

Don't tell me you forgot our safe word!

OMG. LOL

That's a god-awful misspelling of ananas.

That's also one of my master passwords, which I just at that exact moment happened to be typing.

@RegDwightѬſ道 no, no, that's YOUR safe word

It made my brain hurt.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No word is safe from me.

@RegDwightѬſ道 It's not the word that's supposed to be safe

@Kitḫ teehee

Oh, but in case anyone is trying to hack my system, I was lying just then.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 And yet, "safe" is supposed to be a word.

My master password is always Password123.

Or god.

or admin.

@Kitḫ Psst, I'll let you in on a secret: nobody cares about your system. Not even your project lead.

@RegDwightѬſ道 well, any grunt or sound can be worded.

@Kitḫ oooh: admingod1234

that's my new password

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Even &$#§"?

@RegDwightѬſ道 is that a grunt or sound?

please provide IPA

Of course!

It's both!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No prob.

@RegDwightѬſ道 psst not even me.

@RegDwightѬſ道 looks legit to me. Now all it needs is widespread acceptance.

Meh you keep changing the requirements.

You're like Kit's project lead.

Only if they are all priority one and have always been priority one even if we didn't know they existed before just now.

what?! I'm no way like that! I acknowledge that you worded it. But what good is a word if nobody knows it?

Very.

The word is very good.

Hope that helps.

There are literally millions of words most people don't know.

For starters, 99% of the world's population don't know a single word of Dutch.

@RegDwightѬſ道 but for each word there are many people who know them.

Cerberus is not many.

He is not even three.

Don't look at the heads.

It's a trap.

well, I'm not counting dutch

everyone knows it's a dialect of english

As if English needed yet another dialect.

People like to say English is a Germanic language. I prefer to think of it as German being an Englishanic language.

whoops, gotta run

Hey! My project lead's wife is joining our team. How nice.

Commute. Laters.

Hi!

@Kitḫ Very nice.

You can seduce her and gain influence upstairs.

Oh barf.

I actually knew her first.

BTW, there is a close war. Want to help?

OK!

Though I'll probably lose.

I am going to throw this whole server right out the window in a moment.

Sounds like a marvellous idea.

It has decided to just change context on me randomly without any notice.

You must kill it.

Apparently it didn't understand the word "serve".

Spent. Ca. 250 behind.

Food may help. BRB.

>"So now I've got to find some way to kill an immortal Dark Wizard," Harry said, and sighed in frustration. "I really wish you had told me that before I started shopping."

WTF? Where are you, husband?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I know, right?