English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

04:00

come through

Nic Brody

YES!!!

Come through

I'm so stupid hah, thank you!!!!

tchrist

short words win

Cerberus

Haha.

Nic Brody

You da best!

Cerberus

So in the birthday context, does it mean come through with presents?

tchrist

04:01

Sure.

It could.

Cerberus

OK.

tchrist

I see why you question it though.

Nic Brody

Haha, I don't know. Just kinda like, do something nice

Cerberus

ELU wins again!

tchrist

It implies some sort of demanding expectation, which to my mind is a bit pushy for birthdays.

Cerberus

04:02

ELU lives up to its expectations!

tchrist

If you are counting on someone, and they fail, they didn’t come through. Something like that.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, you expect someone to fulfil his obligations with respect to your birthday, which is odd.

tchrist

It’s almost like doing one’s job.

Cerberus

@tchrist Only if you were right in counting on him...

tchrist

Lorin is pining. He is trying to amuse himself, pushing toys around on the floor, talking to me. But one knows whom he pines for.

Now he has gone up to my bed, giving me a come last come-hither look before he jumps upon it.

HURRAY RANDY IS COME!

Cerberus

04:06

Congratulations!

tchrist

And Lorin has run down to greet him, and they do the eskimo-nose thing.

Cerberus

I hate to say I told you so, but the occasions seems to be merry enough to make it tolerable.

tchrist

He came to the back door by me, not to his own door.

Cerberus

Aww so cute!

"By me"?

tchrist

My house has four doors.

Cerberus

04:08

You were outside, and he passed by you to reach the back door?

tchrist

I am sitting with my back to the French doors that face my back garden to the north.

Cerberus

Or did he come to the back door near your present location?

tchrist

That.

Cerberus

I see.

tchrist

He came to the back door behind where I am sitting, not to his own kitty door.

He has more tolerance for getting wet than Lorin does.

Lorin doesn’t like to be out — well, to stay out — when it is raining or snowing heavily.

Randy doesn’t seem to mind getting wet as much.

Cerberus

04:10

Was Lorin a girl?

tchrist

But once it stops snowing and becomes bitter cold, Lorin is more apt to explore than Randy, for he has the richer coat.

Cerberus

Ah.

tchrist

@Cerberus I do not understand. Both kitties have at least one Y chromosome. Beyond that, I do not know.

But Lorin has no black nor Randy red, so they probably have only one X, too.

Lorin has a few black hairs in his tail if you look very very closely. But no one but me knows that, and I won’t tell on him if he has some stray cells from his mommy.

Red-vs-black is only on the X, you see.

Male calicos are usually XXYs.

It only takes one Y in mammals to determine maleness.

Two Ys are bad, because they don’t deactivate correctly or something.

Multiple Xs are ok, because of X-deactivation. Otherwise girls would all be fucked up, and they aren't.

We have talked about this before.

Those are mammal-rules only, you should know.

Other vertebrates have differently lettered chromosomes, but the rule is still the same, that there is one alone that makes them male.

They are running around like crazy. Making up for lost playtime.

X-inactivation

X-inactivation (also called lyonization) is a process by which one of the two copies of the X chromosome present in female mammals is inactivated. The inactive X chromosome is silenced by its being packaged in such a way that it has a transcriptionally inactive structure called heterochromatin. As nearly all female mammals have two X chromosomes, X-inactivation prevents them from having twice as many X chromosome gene products as males, who only possess a single copy of the X chromosome (see dosage compensation). The choice of which X chromosome will be inactivated is random in placental mammals...

LIONS! HOW CUTE!

Cerberus

I hate abbreviations and symbols that make no sense.

tchrist

Which one? X?

Cerberus

04:17

Never in my life will I be able to remember which chromosome is which.

tchrist

Y?

Cerberus

Either.

tchrist

Do I really have to give you the mnemonic? You shall never, ever forget it.

Cerberus

It is like...diabetes type I, or herpes type I.

tchrist

No.

Cerberus

04:18

I doubt it.

tchrist

The Y looks like a tumescent male.

Now you shall never forget.

It is a striking visual mnemonic, you see. )

Not one tied to language.

Cerberus

Hah.

I will try, but...

tchrist

Think cock.

Cerberus

I will probably forget that there was a mnemonic at all.

tchrist

I know this can be hard for you, but do please try. :)

Cerberus

04:19

I got it, I got it.

tchrist

Congratulations!!!

Cerberus

It's just remembering it that is hard.

tchrist

Few men forget themselves.

It becomes harder with dinosaurs. They have ZW to be female and ZZ to be male.

Sex-determination system

A sex-determination system is a biological system that determines the development of sexual characteristics in an organism. Most sexual organisms have two sexes. Occasionally, there are hermaphrodites in place of one or both sexes. There are also some species that are only one sex due to parthenogenesis, the act of a female reproducing without fertilization. In many species, sex determination is genetic: males and females have different alleles or even different genes that specify their sexual morphology. In animals this is often accompanied by chromosomal differences, generally through combinations...

Cerberus

Funny.

tchrist

Notice there are never more than two sexes.

Cerberus

04:24

Zz.

I believe some species have more?

tchrist

Can you think why that might be?

No.

There are steriles, x-noughts.

Robusto

@tchrist Because that is the smallest number greater than one?

Simplest explanation.

tchrist

Because there are two helical strands that must combine sexually.

Robusto

But why are there two strands?

tchrist

Oh, that’s something else.

Robusto

04:26

Does an amoeba have DNA?

tchrist

Binary coding stuff.

Of course.

Cerberus

All animals have DNA.

tchrist

First of all, an amoeba is a eukaryote.

Robusto

> How is it that an Amoeba has 200 times the DNA of a human ? An onion 12 times as much. A rasberry has 12% of the DNA of a human wich seems logical. It`s a simpler organism and would require less DNA to produce the fewer attributes to be expressed. As far as I know ,no one has come up with a cohesive answer yet.

tchrist

@Cerberus So do all plants and all fungi.

Cerberus

04:27

But who says a raspberry is simpler than a human, hmm?

@tchrist Probably...

Robusto

makes raspberry sound

Cerberus

But perhaps not all bacteria.

tchrist

The point, though, is that eukaryotes have nuclei where they hide both their nuclear DNA and their mitochondrial DNA, plus all the little messenger RNA and μRNA.

Robusto

Why do most animals exhibit bilateral symmetry?

Cerberus

We were taught that neither bacteria nor plants had cellular nuclei.

tchrist

04:30

Even prokaryotes have DNA, but the transfer is asexual.

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm I thought that had something to do with the way embryos developed...

tchrist

@Cerberus Bacteria are procaryotes, so no nuclei. Plants are eukaryotes, so yes nuclei.

Cerberus

Hmm.

tchrist

I’m trying to think what you might be remembering.

Cerberus

Perhaps I was mistaken, then.

Do fungi have cellular nuclei?

tchrist

04:31

Yes of course. Fungi are closer to animals than to plants.

Robusto

Why not radial symmetry (like plants) or no symmetry, like slime molds?

tchrist

@Robusto Rob Rob Rob!

Cerberus

Are they really?

Robusto

Starfish have radial symmetry.

tchrist

Starfish.

Cnids have radial symmetry.

Robusto

04:32

I said most animals.

Cerberus

And sea-urchins.

Robusto

And sand dollars, sea cucumbers, etc.

Cerberus

But the two are related.

tchrist

Which two?

Cerberus

Sea ccs too.

Starfish and sea-urchins.

Robusto

04:33

Leaving out annelids and echinoderms and molluscs.

tchrist

Cnids cnids cnids!

Cerberus

But ccs too, and sand dollar as well, probably, if I knew what they were.

Robusto

All of phylum chordata displays bilateral symmetry. Also arthropoda.

Cerberus

@Robusto How about vertebrates?

tchrist

@Cerberus He said that already.

Cerberus

04:34

Right, arthropods too.

Robusto

24 secs ago, by Robusto

All of phylum chordata displays bilateral symmetry. Also arthropoda.

Cerberus

Hey, I can't read while I type.

tchrist

22 secs ago, by tchrist

@Cerberus He said that already.

Cerberus

11 secs ago, by Cerberus

Hey, I can't read why I type.

tchrist

> cnicin [n.]
cnicnode [n.]
ˈcnictrope ← cnicnode
‖ cnida [n.]
ˈcnidoblast ← cnida
ˈcnidocell ← cnida
ˈcnidocil ← cnida
ˈcnidocyst ← cnida
cniˈdogenous [adj.] ← cnida
ˈcnidophore ← cnida
ˈcnidosac ← cnida

Cerberus

04:35

While, dammit.

Robusto

I don't know why you type. I can read what you type.

tchrist

Cerb, do you know what cnidae are?

I figure you should because it has a pain-in-the-Greek-ass consonant cluster.

Cerberus

It does sound Greek. But they are no organisms, are they?

tchrist

They are bits.

Cnidaria are a phylum.

Cerberus

Kwallen?

tchrist

04:37

Jellies.

Cerberus

You have such a funny name in English.

tchrist

> ǁ cnida /ˈknaɪdə/. Zool.
Pl. cnidæ.

Etymology: mod.L., a. Gr. κνίδη nettle.

The nettle cell (urticating, or thread cell) of the Cœlenterata (jelly-fish, hydra, etc.), in which their power of stinging resides: usually called nematocyst. Hence combining form cnido-, ˈcnidoblast Gr. βλαστός germ, the cell in which a nematocyst is developed; ˈcnidocell = cnida; ˈcnidocil L. cilium, cf. cil, the external irritable ciliary process of a cnidoblast; ˈcnidocyst, a nematocyst; cniˈdogenous a., producing or containing nematocysts; ˈcnidophore Gr. -φορος bearing, a process bearing a ‘battery’ of cn…

Cnidaria

Cnidaria (/naɪˈdɛəriə/) is a phylum containing over 10,000 species of animals found exclusively in aquatic and mostly marine environments. Their distinguishing feature is cnidocytes, specialized cells that they use mainly for capturing prey. Their bodies consist of mesoglea, a non-living jelly-like substance, sandwiched between two layers of epithelium that are mostly one cell thick. They have two basic body forms: swimming medusae and sessile polyps, both of which are radially symmetrical with mouths surrounded by tentacles that bear cnidocytes. Both forms have a single orifice and body cavity...

NB radial symmetry.

@Cerberus Well, I grant you that they are no fish.

Then again, what is a fish anyway?

A starfish is not a fish, now is it?

Cerberus

Which is why we use a non-silly name.

tchrist

A starfish is no more a fish than a seahorse is a horse.

Cerberus

Zeester.

Robusto

04:40

Tengo que ir a dormir.

tchrist

Tengo que dormir(me).

Robusto

@tchrist Or a sea cucumber is a cucumber. Or a sea.

Cerberus

What does tengo mean in this context?

tchrist

They don’t go to sleep with ir, unless you mean leaving.

Cerberus

I intend to?

tchrist

04:40

I hafta.

Robusto

@Cerberus have to

Cerberus

Ah.

Robusto

have => have to

tchrist

It’s Tenho in Portuguese.

Cerberus

Que with an infinitive, eh?

tchrist

04:41

Yes.

Cerberus

I asked a question about that on Linguistics, because I found it odd.

tchrist

Tengo que = I have to.

Robusto

tengo que ir a la cama

Cerberus

And I believe I was told they disapprove of that construction in Portugal.

tchrist

As oppose to ir a, which take "to" or venir de which takes "from".

Cerberus

04:42

6

Q: Why the infinitive in Portuguese "Cartago tem que ser destruída"?

Cartago tem que ser destruída. "Carthage must be destroyed." I'm wondering about the infinitive (ser): where does it come from? In what situations is the infinitive used after que: only with ter + que, or also with other verbs? It looks strange to me, because I don't know of any similar con...

tchrist

Brazilian?

Robusto

buenas noches

tchrist

Night falls, and snow.

Cerberus

1 min ago, by Cerberus

And I believe I was told they disapprove of that construction in Portugal.

Adios.

tchrist

Well, there exists both ter amado and haver amado for making the compound tenses. Nobody in Portugal ever says haver there, but some write it. I'm not sure about Brazilians.

Now you’re making me think of more verbs that take que.

He de decir que hay varios. Tengo que decir que hay varios.

You can use "haber de" for "tener que". It is less strong, further from "must".

Cerberus

04:48

It is more proper.

tchrist

I’ve gotta say there are various.

I hafta/must say there are various.

He de isn't more proper, just lighter in tone. It is more common in writing I think, but don't quote me on that.

Cerberus

As I said, I was told ter que was disapproved of in P.

Meanwhile, the hour of sleepytime is fast approaching.

The computer will shut down in ten minutes.

tchrist

It is really hard to keep all the periphrastic tense constructions straight between the Iberian languages. I believe that Catalan use "vou a" for something very different than you would think, like for pasts not futures. I get quite confused.

Yes, time to dose.

Cerberus

Venir de?

tchrist

To slumber, not to drug oneself.

Cerberus

04:51

Doze?

tchrist

Je viens de te l’expliquer.

It is the same in French, no?

Cerberus

l'

tchrist

Well, yes.

Cerberus

I have just explained it to you.

tchrist

I hesitate because "te" + "(l)o" makes a contraction in Portuguese.

Cerberus

04:52

Non pas en français.

tchrist

Right.

Cerberus

Dutch is so much simpler.

tchrist

heh

Cerberus

We have moeten and that's about it.

tchrist

For musting? :)

Cerberus

04:53

Yes.

tchrist

Ich möchte

Cerberus

The construction with hebben is...complicated, but not practical in practice.

That is from mögen, not müssen.

tchrist

Waaaaa

But of course.

Cerberus

And we do not have it in Dutch.

tchrist

Ah.

Morgan? Have you morgan? :)

Cerberus

04:54

Ik zou [inf].

We have mogen.

But it has two meanings.

tchrist

Already, even. :)

Which two?

Cerberus

To like (less common), to be allowed to.

German has only to like, I believe.

And the Dutch like only takes nouns, not infs, normally.

> Ik mag hem niet.

tchrist

Oh right, Dutchland measured land area in morgens.

Cerberus

That is true.

It takes one morning to plow a morning of land.

tchrist

Only takes nouns, odd.

Now I have to wait for two minutes.

Cerberus

04:57

It sounds really old fashioned if you use an infinitive after.

Why two?

tchrist

Vengeance. :)

Cerberus

And you can only do it if you add something like graag, or it will mean "be allowed to", not "like".

In three minutes, I shut down.

tchrist

So it has no "must" sense at all?

Cerberus

Oh, now it's two.

No must sense at all.

Nor does it have that in German.

tchrist

30 seconds

Cerberus

04:58

What!

2 minutes before 6 here.

tchrist

I caught you not plufffing.

Cerberus

Pluffing?

tchrist

You plowed like a normal person.

Cerberus

Did I?

tchrist

You did.

Cerberus

04:59

Where?

1 minute...

tchrist

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

It takes one morning to plow a morning of land.

Cerberus

Oh, I see I did.

Even the best dog...

tchrist

I’m sensitive to these things. :)

Sleep!

No more pluffing but your pillow.

tchrist

05:40

This is unusual:

1

Q: What exactly is a podcast?

I'm asked to prepare a 'podcast' in the form of an audio file. Should I structure it like a speech of some sorts? Formal/Informal? I can't find a 'podcast' definition anywhere.

meaning

SmokeDetector

06:22

[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating words in answer: Is there a correct techincal term used to describe a phrase or name consisting of a pair or group of homonyms; i.e., "Spring Spring?" by KLH on english.stackexchange.com

Stack Exchange

11:21

Limerick Machine: I think I should give up my job As working is making me sob But being poor will Make me very ill …

posted on February 21, 2015 by sgdi

I think I should give up my job As working is making me sob But being poor will Make me very ill I guess there are banks I could rob

Robusto

11:58

0

Q: Difference between “marque”, "make", "mark" and “brand”?

What would be the difference between marque, make, mark and brand?

differences nouns

0

Q: Difference between “site”, "place", "position", "situation" and “location”?

What would be the difference between site, place, position, situation and location ?

differences nouns

0

Q: Difference between 'mistake', 'fault', 'wrong' and 'error'?

I want to know the difference ,in usage, between mistake, fault, wrong and error?

differences nouns

Looks like this guy is synonym-trolling.

I'd say get a thesaurus.

tchrist

13:07

> Snow accumulations... 10 to 16 inches... with up to 20 inches in the foothills west and southwest of Denver.

Robusto

13:18

@tchrist Maybe Albuquerque is a better bet for me.

tchrist

Heh.

I'm in the foothills northwest of Denver. We’ll see what difference that makes. :)

So people should avoid unnecessary travel today. It will go away. The base was almost down to zero, and was so in most places.

Denver said it may mobilize its fleet of 96 light trucks to plow out one center lane in residential areas. They don't do that very often.

We only plow main street because it melts soon enough that it doesn't build up and leave ice and ruts.

Normally.

Robusto

@tchrist ¿Es una sorpresa?

crl

una gran sorpresa

How did he leave without leaving tracks around?

Robusto

So it seems words ending in -ción and -edad are feminine. ¿Es cierto?

tchrist

Yes.

I cannot think of any exceptions.

crl

13:33

la inflacion tiene importantes efectos sobre la sociedad

tchrist

Con una sola efe.

crl

si, justo, lo corrijo

Robusto

> You can now read 73% of all real Spanish text

I wonder what my number will be when I finish this course. I expect about 80%?

tchrist

Well, I don’t know how they measure these things.

Robusto

Not clear to me either.

Whatever the number, the price was right: free.

And if this was a catalyst for me actually learning the language: priceless.

tchrist

13:41

Did you read the article on lo I posted last night?

crl

@crl Mud dried up then he could leave without leaving tracks

tchrist

This. It is mostly examples.

Matt E. Эллен

Schindler's lift

crl

hehe

Robusto

@tchrist I don't think so. I went to bed.

I shall read it after I complete my daily lesson(s).

@MattE.Эллен You're speaking with a lifp today.

Matt E. Эллен

13:52

tho I am

tchrist

weafel

Writer Steve Brust of the Twin Cities says that the Boston snows are impressive even by Minnesota standards. (He just visited there.)

Robusto

@tchrist: I fell asleep to a Spanish-language film last night. Can't say I understood much of it.

tchrist

Ooh sleep lessons.

Robusto

14:08

There wasn't a lot of dialogue.

But it seemed oddly compelling.

tchrist

There are plenty of Spanish-language films worth seeing.

And across numerous genres.

I still haven’t seen Vigo Mortensen’s Alatriste yet.

Cerberus

Hello.

@Robusto I find it very hard to follow a French film too (wouldn't even try Spanish).

Reading is so much easier, luckily.

Robusto

14:25

@Cerberus But you don't really know a language until you can converse in it.

Cerberus

Why not?

Depends on what you use it for.

tchrist

Se usa una lengua para conversar, charlar, platicar, dialogar, monologar, discutir, parlamentar, orar, relatar, anunciar, disertar, discursear, responder, denunciar, y explicarse.

But for reading, one uses one's eyes.

It’s nice to be able to read literature and poetry.

And newspapers. And food labels.

Robusto

14:41

@Cerberus I use it for knowing the language. And oral aspects are part of that.

Cerberus

It would be odd to say that you can read without knowing a language.

@tchrist Then what is language in Spanish?

tchrist

@Cerberus The same as everywhere: una lengua, un idioma, un lenguaje.

Robusto

@Cerberus So if we were all in a room together speaking English, how do you think you would fare?

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: I’d sing you a song about fish Or one about making a wish There is but one song I...

posted on February 21, 2015 by sgdi

I’d sing you a song about fish Or one about making a wish There is but one song I won’t sing along The one with my head on a dish

Cerberus

@tchrist So you were just messing with us, hmm.

@Robusto How do you mean? I speak English, one has to speak with foreigners all the time.

Mitch

14:50

That's easy. Just don't talk to them.

Cerberus

I can't produce French in any way, neither in speech nor in writing.

That is, only a little bit.

Robusto

@Cerberus Do you think you could keep up the sometimes elevated level of conversation we have here if you had to do so orally?

Cerberus

Pah, you call that elevated!

Sure, I could.

I have had similar conversations in English with people.

Mitch

@Robusto there are many stages of 'knowing'.

tchrist

Then we need more drunkards shpeakin fashter.

Cerberus

14:52

It's harder with non-native speakers, though.

Robusto

@Mitch I have made my definition and I stand by it.

tchrist

Odd how foreigner = English.

Robusto

@Cerberus OK, inebriated.

Cerberus

@tchrist Foreigners can be anything, English or American or Belarussian.

@Robusto Better.

Mitch

I find it easier to understand people speaking in other languages if they are Americans speaking that language. The native speakers of that language have such an outrageous accent it's hard to hear.

tchrist

14:53

SCOTTISH!

Mitch

@Robusto you have a definition? there are many stages of 'definition'

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes, people of your own language make mistakes that are easier to recognise for you in a foreign language.

Flemish is a fringe case: on the one hand, they have our grammar; on the other hand, they have a very different accent in English, more like a French accent.

tchrist

Flamingo, Flamenco: let’s call the whole thing off.

Mitch

@tchrist For example? Amores Perros taught me basically only profanity. Useful for stubbing your toe, but not for asking the lady next door for a cup of carrots.

Robusto

Every trial in Spanish is of the juiciest kind.

Mitch

14:57

@Robusto The spanish pomegranates are the juiciest.

Cerberus

I remember talking to an American, Christian mother of four through MSN Messenger or something, when I was 16.

Robusto

Joke on el juicio

Cerberus

The sound quality was awful, in 1999.

But it was fun.

Mitch

@Robusto homework trolling is my guess.

tchrist

@Mitch Buñuel. Cuarón. Arau. Almodóvar. So many.

Mitch

14:59

@Robusto You're taking advantage of your 71.4%. I'm working with -3%

I'm losing my Spanish

Robusto

1 hour ago, by Robusto

> You can now read 73% of all real Spanish text

You are behind the times.

Mitch

@Cerberus Wow you've progressed so much from a couple years ago.

Robusto

Keep up!

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…