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21:00
@Mitch lol. I like that too
@JohanLarsson Guilty.
Haha I love it.
> Raphael Levy ‏@raphcouscous 3h

#WhyImVotingUkip I'm sick of my Israeli mother nagging me to clean my room. Enough is enough, she's got to go
Enough is enough!
I lol'd at that too :D
what is ukip?
21:07
UK Independence Party
Not quite as bad as the British National Party, but still pretty poor
how many % do they have each?
not much. I don't think the BNP have any seats in parliament
UKIP has a few MEP seats
UKIP has no seats in the commons but has 3 seats in the Lords
They are so lordly...
@MattЭллен and then it runs at super high speed, and then you which one wins usually.and then you follow that strategy.
UKip has some silly people facing the public right now
21:10
Lesson: Crazy beats strong every time.
2
Haha nice.
And hello Andy!
Hi! :D
@Cerberus Lordy, lordy, lordy.
Yeah.
(disclaimer: I am not from the UK, it's just my job to keep tabs on politicians)
21:12
Oh, yeah?
apparently the BNP have two MEPs. which seems contradictory, but there you go
What kind of job is that?
a really cool one ;)
@Andy they always do
Hitler was also more or less democratically elected.
Oh, that's clear, then...
21:12
So was @Kit...
There you go.
@MattЭллен also, forgiv me, what's an MEP? a Minister Entirely Permissive?
Em Ee Pee.
@Mitch Member of the European Parliament
21:13
Oh.
@Cerberus I'm a research analyst in compliance, if that helps
well, good for them.
Compliance...with laws?
AML laws, sanctions, etc
AML?
21:14
I've been learning about 21 CRF 11 and Annex 11 today
anti moneylaundering
That is totally weird. Not represented in your own country but represented in the future world government.
Ah.
@Mitch *past
@Mitch yeah, and representing a party that hates Europe
And *debating club.
21:14
So every politician with any clout is suspect :)
I am pro money laundering. Do you know what kinds of microbes are passed around in cash?
The same applies to all "Euro-sceptic" parties.
The Eurosceptic coalitions and independent parties are headed towards a big win.
As in 80 seats, I think.
21:15
Out of ca. 750.
But they will stop the evil treaty with America.
@MattЭллен How do you get to be an MEP? I thought those are sent as reps by the local country? Is it the case that the BNP had representation in England and so also got sent to Strasbourg, and then ... I don't know...what a mess.
@Mitch they represent parts of the country
No, direct elections.
@Cerberus ha ha... what?
We vote on the morrow, Matt as well.
21:16
yup
@Mitch Well, Europe rules the world no more.
I think we've got council elections on the same day
All countries vote 22–25 May.
@Cerberus evil treaty with evil America. Wait...what evil treaty?
21:17
@Mitch You haven't heard about it? TAFTA/TTIP.
@Cerberus What? of course they do, they've just delegated.
(And America is also involved in the possibly even more evil treaty TPP.)
TAKE AWAY FREEDOM THEN ATTACK
@Mitch Hah, we wish!
@Cerberus TAFTA the Torth Atlantic Free Trade Agreement?
21:18
@Mitch Touth
Our European "government" was trying to sell you and us out to the European Business Alliance and its American equivalents.
@Mitch Trans-, yes.
@MattЭллен Yes, I see that your tooth hurts, but ...
But support for the evil treaty is weakening on both sides of the ocean.
Ohhh... duh. Really, I only read the Economist for the comics.
21:19
Congress refused to grant Obama fast track.
Merkel is reported to be against the provisions about corporate sovereignty.
The EP will most likely block it as well, especially with the new Euro-sceptic wave.
Of course we also have the evil treaty with Canada to worry about, CETA.
And probably a dozen other, smaller ones.
@Cerberus Why is it so evil. Restrictive trade policies are good for a developing economy (keeps out robber barons, but between developed economies, well, with the same framework, it should be OK.
@Cerberus AWADOSOFT - Agreement With A Dozen Other Small Ones for Free Trade
@Mitch Low tariffs are 100 % good, at least in the long run. But the main ways in which they want to free trade is by making it impossible for our and your governments to pass new laws, any laws, without consulting lobby groups first, before even going to parliament. Environmental and food-safety and civil-liberty laws are of course bad for trade, so they will be challenged and delayed and blocked.
Nigel Farage (leader of UKIP) being made fun of
21:24
@Mitch Oh, and apparently more copyright and patents is also good for free trade (in fact, those are of course restrictions on trade, but they are good for many multinationals).
@Cerberus Oh, so safety-style things which are universally good for people tend to restrict economic growth?
@Mitch Yes, they do.
If you can't bleach eggs with chlorine (not allowed in some of the countries involved), that costs corporations money.
So the three most problematic points are:
1. corporations will be able to sue countries for billions of dollars at wacky tribunals made up of lawyers who also represent the corporations;
2. lobby groups get to challenge proposals for new laws before they are introduced in parliament;
3. more copyrights and patents and draconian punishments, infringing on civil liberties.
How about bleaching with bromine? Hm that leaves a big brown stain. How about bleaching with zinc oxide? very white.
The same points are in the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership between America, Japan, etc.
And CETA between Europe and Canada.
@Mitch Everything will be allowed if it is good for trade!
@Cerberus But they'll go to European jails which are like modern libraries. You can get all educated just you have to keep it down to a whisper.
21:28
Haha, who will?
Your people will go to American jails. The treaty affects us all.
@Cerberus How about... no.. not that, too violent. How about... not that either, not profitable.
Too violent is not a criterion!
Another funny thing, as in the enemy or your enemy is my friend, is that the stupid European directives about "only feta made in Greece can be called feta" etc. are a major hindrance in current negotiations.
It would actually be good for trade and for society to abolish those silly directives.
And only sparkling wine made in Champagne can be called Champagne. Silly for sure.
But the European food lobbies really like them, and the American will obviously never accept having to relabel all their feta as "white cheese" the way it is now done in Holland because of the directives.
@Andy Yeah, exactly.
Otherwize you have to market it as boozy grape soda or something
21:33
I mean, as long as you don't pretend it was actually made in the Champagne, but mention the place of origin, what's the problem?
...otherwize. Yep.
Otherwize.
There is Sekt, and Prosecco, and Cava.
I can't words, it's the end of the work day and I'm going home. Otherwize I might make a fool of myself.
And I think many sparkly white wines are just sold under the name of the château or something, without the word "champagne".
noöne cares about cheddar, though
21:34
@Andy It's OK. This is the English room, nobody can type English here.
2
@MattЭллен Really? Isn't cheddar "protected"?
wut r unglish?
@Cerberus nope. Irish cheddar is sold here
@Cerberus Ouais!
it r the oppsit of glish
Always protect your cheddar.
@Mahnax Bonjour! Exactement.
@MattЭллен Oh, my! Don't you people feel betrayed?
21:36
@Cerberus I don't know... I can buy Cornish brie too
@Mahnax Oh, no accent...
@MattЭллен Nooo that's evil! Think of those poor French multi-national corporations!
@Cerberus it's true
@Cerberus Ja!
@Cerberus those poor, poor multinationals.
@Mahnax Merci de votre correction.
21:38
if only there were something we could do to protect them
but sadly they all have to die
We could...give them a copyright on air?
And a patent on breathing, too.
lol
I really should hit the hay
nightoh!
@MattЭллен What did it ever do to you?
Night!
Night!
Jez
Jez
21:56
is it me or does that fox have the longest lit fart ever?
22:09
@Jez Looks kind of embarrassed about it too. Or should that be ember-assed?
@Cerberus Just inhaling. You can exhale all you want.
@MattЭллен I care.
@Cerberus White cheese doesn't sound nearly as good. I'll just translate in the silence of my mind and then I'll be eating (redacted)
@Mitch Haha nice.
@Mitch That's not allowed!!
The thought police will come for you.
22:26
@Cerberus Thought police shmought police ... they have no idea what I'm ... smashed windows tear gas shocok grenade twist ties on wrists behind back slammed to the floor
Hey, I was thinking about ... sniffs ... Hello Kitty.
Ah.
Glad they got your straightened out.
Must stray from conformity.
23:01
@Cerberus "Must" stray from conformity? That sounds like a strait-jacketed point-of-view.
@Robusto I actually meant "must not"...
Otherwise it would be quite the paradox, as you say.
Oh, and *got you.
I forgot. You don't care about what words mean.
@Cerberus Got me? How?
' . . . compare Greek daktylios "anus," literally "ring (for the finger)," from daktylos "finger."' Them Greeks must have been poking around in there quite a lot.
daktylios == anus? Really? Cerb?
35 mins ago, by Cerberus
Glad they got your straightened out.
It's proktos in modern Greek.
Wow, apparently so.
Yes, apparently! I didn't know.
Then again, anus also means ring...
As in bell?
:P
I found that because I was trying to establish a link between annular and annual — rings and years being circular sorts of things.
@Robusto And did you?
23:08
Actually, I thought anus could also mean ring, but maybe that's spelled differently.
Yes, double n I guess.
I would think there's be an extra n there.
@terdon Not yet. I got distracted.
> annus, i, m. [acc. to some, as Corssen, Beitr. 16, for am-nus, from 2. an- am-; or acc. to others, directly from 2. anus, a ring, and kindred to the form appearing, in ἐνοαυτός, δί-ενος, τρί-ενος].
So anus can mean ring, and annus "year, period, circuit" may be from anus "ring".
Anus also means "old woman" I thought.
And am-nus?
23:10
Stream?
@Robusto Nah, that's anun.
@Robusto That is correct! But that is no cognate.
As when Schopenhauer's landlady, to whom he owed money, died, he quipped: Obit anus, abit onus.
@Cerberus Oh. I was thinking of sheep in Greek.
Amnis is stream...but amnus must be archaic or proto.
@terdon What is sheep in Greek?
23:12
amnos
αμνός
Well, lamb to be precise.
I guess that's where we get amniotic.
Ah OK.
Didn't know.
Wait, I didn't read far enough: . . . or a diminutive of amnos "lamb."
Yeah.
So what about the Schopenhauer quote?
23:19
The OED says it is from amnion lamb.
@Robusto It sounds correct.
I have heard it before.
How is a lamb like an old woman?
Anonymous
@Robusto Japanese has lexical (phonemic) downsteps, large falls in pitch which (psychologically at least) occur between morae.
Anonymous
In some cases they distinguish words, but in any case they're generally unpredictable properties of words you have to memorize, just like the consonants and vowels.
@Robusto It isn't, the two are not related.
@snailboat Well, that's certainly true.
Anonymous
23:20
In Standard Japanese, you never have to memorize the location of an upward shift in pitch. No word has an upward shift in pitch as an unpredictable part of its pronunciation.
Anonymous
The basic rule that is taught is that when a word has a downstep after the first mora, there is no rise, and when a word has a downstep anywhere else or no downstep, there is a rise between the first and second morae.
Anonymous
But this is not a phonemic rise.
Anonymous
It does not ever distinguish lexical items.
Anonymous
It is not required as part of the pronunciation of a word.
@Robusto The Latin supposed amnus would be from an/am- meaning "both, from two sides, around", as in ambiguous, amphitheatre. Not related to Greek amnos "lamb".
23:22
@snailboat OK, I think your explanation is confusing me even more. I'll just go back to what I understand from what I hear.
@Cerberus So amnus => anus?
Anonymous
Sure, if you have a good intuitive grasp of Japanese pronunciation, there's no need to analyze it in technical terms.
Anonymous
I just joined chat to clarify in response to your comments.
@snailboat No, and I thank you for that. I do not mean to be churlish.
I'm just easily confused when linguistics folk get to talking.
@Robusto Amnus → annus "year, circle" is one option suggested by the dictionary. The other is anus "rectum, ring" → annus "year, circle".
@Cerberus "The squirming facts exceed the squamous mind."
If one may say so.
23:25
Whom are you quoting?
Wallace Stevens, A Connoisseur of Chaos.
                          And yet relation appears,
A small relation expanding like the shade
Of a cloud on sand, a shape on the side of a hill.
Ahah, right!
Are you commenting on the poem, or something else?
The relation appeared to me.
So I had an Aha-Erlebnis.
Aha-Erlebnis ist ein Begriff aus der Psychologie und bezeichnet das schlagartige Erkennen von Gestalten und Zusammenhängen wie zum Beispiel die plötzlich auftretende Einsicht in die Lösung eines Problems. In der psychologischen Forschung zu Einsicht taucht es oft als Charakteristikum auf, das sich einstellt nach vermeintlich vollendetem Erkenntnisprozess. Der Begriff wurde von dem deutschen Psychologen Karl Bühler geprägt, der ihn wie folgt definiert: Ein neuerer theoretischer Ansatz des Aha-Erlebnisses geht von vier definierenden Merkmalen aus: Erstens, das Aha-Erlebnis kommt plötzlich....
(Pages of illustrations.)
@Cerberus Epiphany, satori . . . ?
Yeah. Otherwise known as an "Aha moment."
Some call that Fridge logic.
Or "fridge brilliance" . . .
23:37
all the boys are straitlaced and the girls are frigid
@Robusto Satori I did not know.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Is that a veiled reference to @Cerb? the dog is two-faced, and the rules are rigid
I am not two faced.
Elvis Costello says you are.
23:45
And now for something completely different.
The only other person whose lyrics are as intelligent as, and music as sophisticated as, Elvis Costello.
The cats (the boys, anyway) know that if they annoy me enough I will give them a treat and put them to bed.
How many cats do you have?
Well, we have three. One girl, two boys. And they can't be together. So the queen rules the night, and the boys rule the day.
Heh.
And so it goes.
@Cerberus you're three faced!
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Exactly!

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