English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

19:00

@Jez In Dutch, for all verbs, the simple present is used for both timeless facts and things that are happening right now, as opposed to English. English always makes the distinction explicitly, with present continuous v. simple present. In Dutch, it is only made explicit when needed, and for this we use not the present simple but a different construction akin to I am a-doing to mark a continuous aspect.

Jez

@Cerberus when would it be needed explicitly?

Cerberus

@Jez Rarely.

Jez

when?

example?

Cerberus

I'd have to think about that...

Jez

anyway i disagree that our distinction between the two is unnecessary... it's useful

several times in French i've wondered whether the writer means right now, or in general

Cerberus

19:02

It is also to some extent arbitrary: when I want you to shut up, I would say, "shh I am a-telephoning", even though "shh I telephone" would probably not be ambiguous.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez Want is stative. But that doesn’t have anything to do with whether you want chocolate only occasionally or all the time. It has to do with the fact that wanting chocolate describes you as being in a state of wanting, rather than performing an act of wanting. Compare it with crave, which is not stative. If you say, “I crave chocolate”, the most immediate and generic meaning is habitual; if you say, “I want chocolate”, it is not.

Cerberus

@Jez Well, in such cases there are other means to make the distinction in French and Dutch.

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet surely any verb can be used statively or currently

Janus Bahs Jacquet

--> (it can mean something habitual, but that is not the basic sense). If you say, “I am craving chocolate”, then it is ‘right now’, and that is grammatical to everyone. If you say, “I am wanting chocolate” that is traditionally not grammatical, and still isn’t to some speakers.

Jez

i walk / i'm walking

Cerberus

19:03

@JanusBahsJacquet Huh..."I crave chocolate" is habitual?

KitFox

I find your answer wanting.

Cerberus

@KitFox That's not a continuous.

KitFox

sighs

Later!

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus what was that tool you used for automatically clicking on things etc.?

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Autohotkey, of course. I use it for everything.

RegDwigнt

19:04

Excellent, BRB.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez “I walk” describes you as carrying out an action. Its basic sense is habitual. “I walk to school” implies not that you are currently walking to school (or are in a state of walking to school), but that you in general walk to school.

Cerberus

> Click (by itself) Clicks the left mouse button once at the mouse cursor's current position.
Click 44, 55
Clicks the left mouse button once at coordinates 44, 55 (based on CoordMode).
Click right 44, 55 Same as above but clicks the right mouse button.
Click 2 Clicks the left mouse button twice at the cursor's current position (i.e. double-click).
Click down Presses the left mouse button down and holds it.
Click up right Releases the right mouse button.
Click %x% %y% Since click does not support expressions, variables should be enclosed in percent signs.

@RegDwigнt Examples ^.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

“I want chocolate” does not usually imply that. It implies that you are currently in a state of wanting chocolate.

Jez

yeah, but weren't we talking about how there wasn't any particular reason for that?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

No … or at least I wasn’t.

Jez

19:06

the change, if there is one, to using the present continuous, is bringing want into line with other verbs

Janus Bahs Jacquet

There is a particular reason for that

Cerberus

(I would use I crave chocolate in the exact same way as I want chocolate btw., but that doesn't matter for the point you were making.)

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yeah actually I don't need clicking, I need to like have it press left-up-right ten dozen times.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Yes, exactly. The distinction between stative and non-stative verbs is becoming blurred.

Jez

@Cerberus as in, you're craving it. i wouldn't interpret it that way.

Cerberus

19:07

Loop 120
{
Send {left}{up}{right}
}

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerb Me neither. “Why are you fidgeting like that?” — “Because I crave chocolate!” doesn’t sound natural to me. I would expect “Because I’m craving chocolate” for that.

Jez

@Cerberus i green-squiggly-underline your grammar. Consider using the present continuous more.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

But I would find “Because I want chocolate!” perfectly natural.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Yes, I guess not in that context.

But...somehow I think the reason is not stativity in that case, but something else. Like idiom. Crave is a special word.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

And actually (though I find the “I’m wanting to build a shed, but I don’t have enough material” example fairly natural and idiomatic), I would find “Because I’m wanting chocolate!” ungrammatical too, here.

Cerberus

19:09

Looping 120ing
{
Sending {lefting}{upping}{righting}
}

Better?

Jez

wtf?

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet I agree.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

I don’t think crave is that special. “Because I’m hankering for chocolate!” is just as fine.

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet actually, that sounds OK to me. it's somewhat commonly used over here, "because i'm wanting to go on that rollercoaster! because i'm wanting to kick that guy's ass!" etc.

Cerberus

But then why is crave different?

terdon

19:11

@Jez are you from the North?

Jez

shrug

@terdon nope, received pronunciation

Cerberus

The...thing it describes is the same as hankering or wanting.

Jez

maybe it's made its way down here :-)

Mitch

I'm a hankerin' for a snack.

Cerberus

@Jez Very colloquial...

terdon

19:12

Nah, I probably associate it with the North 'cause that's the only part of the UK I've spent any time in. It's probably a Brit thing in general.

Jez

i wouldn't use the present continuous like that all the time, but i'd feel toss-a-coin free to use it or not

"I'm needing those documents now", another one that springs to mind as OK

possibly rarer than "I'm wanting"

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus okay so I tried assigning that to the Windows key + Space, as in the examples. But it does nothing. Do I need more brackets or something?

#space::Loop 120
{
Send {left}{up}{right}
}

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez Yep, those sound okay to me, too. Wanting to X works much better than wanting X, for some reason. Apparently the modal senses of want have come farther towards non-stativity than the non-modal sense.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Ah, when a hotkey has multiple lines, it needs to start on a new line (and preferably end with a return):

#space::
Loop 120
{
Send {left}{up}{right}
}
Return

RegDwigнt

Thanks, lemme try.

Jez

19:15

@JanusBahsJacquet perhaps, though in a café you might get "how are you?" "I'm wanting chocolate"

terdon

Could anyone confirm that I'm wanting X is a British thing? Or is it common on both sides of the pond and I just don't use it?

RegDwigнt

Yeah baby yeah, this is working alright.

Thank you @Cer.

Cerberus

Yay!

I'm so proud of you for using Autohotkey!

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez Now that would not sound natural to me, except in a jocular manner (where “I’m being quite well, thank you” would work all right, too).

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet "I'm wanting chocolate" would sound more OK to me than "I'm being". i guess it's just commonality of usage

dear god i can't type today

also, "I'm wanting chocolate" sounds a lot less rude and abrupt than "I want chocolate" - maybe that's why it's gained in popularity

Cerberus

19:18

@terdon When I search Google Ngrams for I'm wanting in American English, I'm getting (oh, no!) British books...

terdon

@Cerberus That's reassuring.

I speak such a weird, idiopathic dialect, I never know.

Jez

@Cerberus when you're searching for it? :-)

terdon

Stop that! :P

Cerberus

@Jez Heh, see, that is where my subconscious successfully resists the continuous trend.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez Well, I’d definitely never say, “I want chocolate” in a café. I’d say, “I’d like a hot chocolate, please—no thanks, no whipped cream” or, “I think I’ll have a hot chocolate without whipped cream, please”.

Cerberus

19:20

I only use it when I feel I have no other choice.

@JanusBahsJacquet Ugh so polite...

Your politeness is hampering our grammatical research.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

(The bit about the whipped cream is not technically a grammatical necessity; but it is a palatal necessity.)

Cerberus

I am agreeing.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerb Would you prefer “Oi, you! Chocolate, now!”? ;-)

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet but if a woman were talking to her friend, the "i'm wanting" thing might come into play

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ohh elliptical aspects! Could lead to some very interesting research...

@Jez *were

Yay! I knew you liked the past subjunctive.

Jez

19:23

i like most subjunctives

Cerberus

I know.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Jez True … but I’d still be more likely to use the simple present there. “What do you fancy?” — “Ooh, I want chocolate” or “I think I want some chocolate”. Both sound much more natural to me (which just puts me somewhere in between you and @terdon).

Jez

god, they had a lawyer on the radio as i was driving home today

totally predictable. "it's important that people ARE represented by good quality lawyers..."

Cerberus

Poor Jez...

Jez

damn lawyers can't even speak proper English now

Janus Bahs Jacquet

19:24

@Jez Well, he might have meant exactly that, and not the subjunctive version. They mean different things …

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet no, in the context, he almost certainly wanted the subjunctive

Cerberus

He is a lawyer, so unlikely...

terdon

Yeah, both could be right there.

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet they were talking about how people were getting worse lawyers because of legal aid cuts

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Yesterday, I managed to accidentally, but quite without thinking about it, use “if it be the case …”. Even my Welsh teacher called me out on that one.

Cerberus

19:25

Yay!

terdon

:)

Cerberus

I like if + subj.

terdon

@Cerberus Yeah. My Dad swears by it. I hold that it should be used almost always.

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet it's more like, "it's important that people are being represented by bad lawyers, it's not a trivial problem"

Cerberus

@terdon Oh, really? Like when (not)?

terdon

19:26

"If it were possible, I'd have done it". But "If he was there, I did not see him."

Cerberus

@Jez Yeah and that would seem less relevant.

Jez

@Cerberus huh?

Cerberus

@terdon Yes, of course, because then it actually refers to a situation in the past, and one that is not counterfactual.

terdon

Exactly.

I've been trying to ram that down my Dad-the-professional-editor's throat for years :)

Cerberus

@Jez Oh, oops, I missed your bad. Yes.

@terdon Oh, he would write were there?

terdon

19:29

My guess is he probably wouldn't but would never admit to it.

But yes, for him if == were. Always.

Cerberus

Ah haha.

That's what parents are like.

Jez

"if he were there" isn't past tense

quite simply

however it is present tense subjunctive

if he were there, he'd be seeing it

Janus Bahs Jacquet

No, that it is not. That would be what I used yesterday: “if he be there”.

It can be semantically connected to a conditional statement in the present; but in itself, it is not present.

terdon

Now, why is the subjunctive so bleedin' hard in all languages? It's often the very last hurdle one must overcome to attain perfection in a foreign tongue.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Yeah I think that's what he kind of meant, it describes what is not the case in the present.

Jez

19:31

@terdon probably because it's kind of hard to describe what the subjunctive actually does

Cerberus

@terdon What is it like in New Greek?

Jez

@terdon you can't say it's a "doing" word or a "being" word or something

Cerberus

Ancient Greek also has the optative, of course...

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@terdon Try doing some Vedic or Avestan. The subjunctive isn’t too bad there (it’s almost like a future), but the optative, desiderative, and injunctive are all nightmares.

Cerberus

Yay! The moodier, the better.

terdon

19:32

@Cerberus Simpler in some ways. We basically use να

Cerberus

Use it for...what?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus The Modern Greek ‘subjunctive’ isn’t really anything of the sort. Not really much subjunctive left in it.

Cerberus

And is that from A. Gr. an?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

For anything

terdon

@JanusBahsJacquet Well, since I don't know what any of those are, I'm not too worried :)

Cerberus

19:33

@JanusBahsJacquet How so?

@JanusBahsJacquet That's a lot.

terdon

@Cerberus No, the same way θα is used to make the future, να is used to make the subjunctive.

Cerberus

Ah, I see.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

It is a lot. Since Modern Greek has lost the infinitive (a common Balkan trait), it uses ‘subjunctive’ relative clauses headed off by να instead.

Cerberus

So no special endings?

terdon

Relatively simple actually. Better than French or Spanish or even English. Huh.

@Cerberus No, not that I can think of.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

19:34

No, the endings are the same (I think—most of them are, anyway), just the stem formation that differs.

terdon

^^

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ohh...that must look funny.

@terdon OK noted.

terdon

@JanusBahsJacquet tell me you don't speak Modern Greek as well. Please.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Huh, a different stem for the subjunctive?

@terdon We are lost.

Jez

@JanusBahsJacquet lost the infinitive? damn, that makes the deterioration of English seem small by comparison. hopefully all the different dialects of English will make it harder for its various parts to die out

Janus Bahs Jacquet

19:35

For example, πηγαίνω στην Αθήνα ‘I go to Athens’, but θέλω να πάω στην Αθήνα (‘subjunctive’) ‘I want to go to Athens’ (with excuses for bungled Modern Greek grammar botchups).

terdon

I think it's illegal to speak more than 12 languages in Texas.

Cerberus

We can only defeat him on certain details, and only when we catch him off guard...

terdon

Damn. He does.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Hmm possibly derived from aorist stems?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Haha! Don’t worry, @terdon, I don’t really—I just know bits and bobs here and there. :-)

Cerberus

19:36

Related to the special use of an + aorist forms for the irrealis in A.Gr.?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus In some cases, yes. In others, I believe the imperfect stem is used (so for many regular verbs, the indicative and ‘subjunctive’ coincide).

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That's Glenn Tillbrook from Squeeze. EC was all about collaboration. Hell, he even collaborated with Barry Manilow. Talk about eclectic. But he did say Squeeze's album East Side Story was one of the 500 albums you must own.

terdon

I like hanging out with you guys. I live in France so people are just shocked cause I speak 5 languages. 3 of them well. This room puts that in a more reasonable perspective.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet The imperfect stem, as in, the present stem?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Yup

Cerberus

19:38

OK.

Johan Larsson

!!put..it..back...ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

KitSox

@JohanLarsson I don't understand. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

Cerberus

The imperfect could also be used to express the irrealis with an in A.Gr.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

That’s one of the confusing things about comparatively studying ancient Indo-European languages: what the conventional names for the various stems are for each language. Bloody hopeless!

Johan Larsson

in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 15 mins ago, by Caprica Six

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

Cerberus

19:40

@JanusBahsJacquet Well, if you say imperfect stem, that implies it is different from the present stem, or at least that it is most typically used in the imperfect...

Janus Bahs Jacquet

… and of course, another is how they use the bloody aspects and stems. No streamlined consensus there, either.

Cerberus

...and, if they use them differently, perhaps we should use different names as well...

Janus Bahs Jacquet

In some languages, the imperfect stem is seen as the opposite of the aorist stem—the present is then one of the imperfect tenses, while the aorist is, well, aorist.

Cerberus

Huh.

So then in those languages there is no specific past tense that is called the imperfect, I assume?

terdon

By aorist I take it you mean what us modern types call the aoristos? The simple past?

Cerberus

19:41

Something like it.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

No, I mean, in some languages, an + imperfect might be irrealis while an + aorist is realis and an + injunctive, say, is counter-realis; and then in other languages, they have the same semantic distinctions, but shuffled around differently, so imperfect is realis, aorist counter-realis, and injunctive irrealis. Or something.

Oh no, they do have imperfect tenses (usually).

Sorry, I’m rambling—I mean imperfective stems, not imperfect ones.

Cerberus

@terdon In Ancient Greek, it is a kind of verb stem that expresses a non-continuous aspect, or whatever you call it. Non-durative. You can make any verb form of it, like infinitives and participles and past tenses, but not a present tense, so it is typically associated with the past.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

It’s the aspect that is contrasted (imperfective vs. aorist vs. perfect), not the tense.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ahhh imperfective, that makes more sense. But an in other languages than Greek?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

I believe in Modern Greek, you can actually make a present aorist as well. Or at least an aorist imperative.

terdon

19:44

@Cerberus Huh. Lost in modern Greek as far as I know.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Well, particles similar to an. Was just using an as a pseudo-symbolic particle.

terdon

Ah! No, you mean the e in ekana for example. Gotcha.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@terdon That’s the augment

terdon

Damn.

Cerberus

@terdon I think maybe you only kept the past-tensed forms of the aorist and lost the non-durative aspect, so it has become a regular past tense?

@JanusBahsJacquet Ah OK noted.

terdon

19:45

It is the simple past, yes. Short duration and in the past.

Cerberus

Oh, OK, so still short duration.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

In Modern Greek, you still have the aorist and the imperfect, both of which have augments: aorist έδωσα, imperfect έδινα.

Cerberus

Then all you did was drop some uses of the aorist but kept the most-used ones.

terdon

Like κάνω == do έκανα == did (also was doing, just to make things interesting)

@JanusBahsJacquet true.

Cerberus

Noted.

So does na come from an?

That is an odd...metathesis.

@terdon "Also was doing"...and this is the aoristos?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

19:47

Modern Greek has basically lost nearly all the participles, except the present active (in -οντ-) and something which I think is originally the aorist passive infinitive (in -θει), but which now functions more or less like the perfect participle in English.

In κάνω, I think the imperfect and aorist coincide

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet The aorist passive participle, more likely?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Yup, they do merge—that’s why έκανα is both ‘did’ and ‘was doing’.

Cerberus

Normally on -theis, -thent-.

terdon

@Cerberus No. This particular verb just happens to have the same form in both tenses. You could say ενώ έκανα for while I was doing and έκανα for did.

Cerberus

OK noted.

terdon

19:48

Others, like έδωσα/έδινα that Janus mentioned, change.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus No, I don’t think so. Modern Greek hasn’t lost final -s, so I think it’s a different one.

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Well, the stem is -thent-... the infinitive would be -thenai.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

… True.

Not sure where they botched up -θει from.

Cerberus

I don't know, but why did you think infinitive?

terdon

Botched he says!

Cerberus

19:50

Aww.

terdon

:)

Cerberus

Poor Greek pride.

BRB

Janus Bahs Jacquet

It has a simple aorist marker sometimes, too: δώσει, for example, from δίνω (= δίδομαι).

terdon

@Cerberus To hell with that, we lost that when Socrates drank the conium.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Haha, sorry, @terdon, but some of the reductions of Greek grammar through the ages is a bit botchy. ;-)

terdon

19:51

I'm sure it is.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Cerberus Nope. At least not according to Wiktionary, which agrees with my initial guess that it’s from ἵνα.

terdon

Don't worry, I am very much not a nationalist.

Mahnax

Hi.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Hallo, Mahnax!

terdon

@Mahnax Hi, finally, someone who speaks less Greek than I do! :)

Mahnax

19:53

@terdon I wish I spoke Greek just so I could surprise you. But I don't. :-)

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Mahnax Just talk to him in some Salishan language or something. ;-þ

Mahnax

@JanusBahsJacquet I'm not quite from the right part of Canada for that, I'm afraid.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto his voice sounds so much nicer with Squeeze.

@Robusto he's been very into it lately.

Robusto

Maybe EC gave him the shitty mic.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Collaboration, that is.

Robusto

19:56

He's always been doing that.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

On Whisper, EC's voice is pure sex and Tillbrook's voice is a 10-year-old who has yet to see the merit of girls (or boys).

Robusto

I agree.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

It's just the incongruity.

I like them together on the chorus, actually.

Well, I don't dislike them together on the chorus.

Robusto

Heh.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Mahnax Athabaskan? Algonquian?

Robusto

19:59

AFK for a walk.

Mahnax

@JanusBahsJacquet Athabaskan is more like it, but that is not a culture that I'm a part of. Just plain old English and French here.

Oh yeah, my IB exams are over. Yay!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto that sounds nice.

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@Mahnax Damn. And I was so sure I’d finally come across my first ever native Nuxálk speaker!

But congrats anyway!

Mahnax

@JanusBahsJacquet Sorry! And thanks :-)

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mahnax yay!

Mahnax

20:03

I feel like I should be studying…

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: Much like Latin

posted on May 21, 2014 by sgdi

I’m pretty sure that Ancient Greek Is a language nobody speaks It seems that instead It is totally dead And is just understood by some geeks

Janus Bahs Jacquet

@StackExchange How very apropos … and reaffirming-slash-insulting to the conversation we were just having five minutes ago.

Cerberus

@terdon Haha, no! That made the Greek spirit even more heroic!

@JanusBahsJacquet Ohh of course, that makes more sense. But it is possible that there was some conflation...

But why did you say "relative clause" btw.?

Janus Bahs Jacquet

Well, it is a kind of relative clause: θέλω να πάω is more or less “I wish that I [should] go”, substituting a relative clause for the infinitive.

Ας and να are the two normal relative clause markers in Modern Greek in general, I think (ας mostly with optative or jussive meaning, if memory serves …).

No, sorry, I’m rambling again. Not relative of course.

Subordinate complement clauses.

Matt Эллен

20:24

@JanusBahsJacquet I'm sure it was just trying to wind up @Cerb :D

Cerberus

@JanusBahsJacquet Ahh I was thinking, maybe he means subordinate, OK, makes sense.

@MattЭллен !!!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus ohai!

Cerberus

Is it you who was behind that evil, profane affront?

Matt Эллен

It might be... innocent look

Janus Bahs Jacquet

I have this weird mental ‘block’ where, every time I mean to say ‘subordinate clause’ or ‘dependent clause’, I just blurt out (even in writing) ‘relative clause’. Not sure why.

I do the same with cucumbers and carrots.

Cerberus

20:28

@MattЭллен How dare you! I forgot what your weaknesses were, but, if I knew, I'd get back at you!

@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, we all have such things.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus lol I'll consider myself got back at ;)

Cerberus

Very good.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

20:46

@tchrist you ok? denverpost.com/weathernews/ci_25808146/…

Johan Larsson

@Matt did it run for you?

Matt Эллен

did what run for me? did you post something? sorry I've been absent

also, I'm not at work, and my windows PC is crashed

dead

done for

the motherboard is probably fried

Windows XP? more like X windows P(c)

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Nooo!

What happened?

Matt Эллен

I don't know

but at first it looked like some of the RAM had died

then the videocard stopped working

Johan Larsson

4 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

@MattЭллен here is a simple sample

wrote some more stuff after

Cerberus

20:56

Wow, that does sound like a failing motherboard...unless it's software.

Matt Эллен

I assume the motherboard has overheated and fried something

@Cerberus it posts but doesn't boot

Cerberus

Does the hard drive work?

Matt Эллен

@JohanLarsson Oh cool! I will check it out tomorrow.

@Cerberus probably

Cerberus

You could try booting from USB or CD.

That shouldn't work.

Matt Эллен

It doesn't

Cerberus

20:57

Ah OK.

Then definitely mobo, right?

Mitch

All this Greek talk. Can we talk about aspect in Chinese now?

Matt Эллен

also the motherboard has no video out, so I can't even check if it's the graphics card

Cerberus

A sad day.

Matt Эллен

yeah, well it happened a few weeks ago

Cerberus

You could probably buy a very cheap replacement mobo, if your computer isn't super new.

Matt Эллен

20:58

I've been using my nice Linux laptop ever since

@Cerberus true

Mitch

There's a video of the mothership coming to take the stranded aliens away. Does that count?

Matt Эллен

I should do something about it

Cerberus

I should probably encourage Linux.

Matt Эллен

I miss playing games

Cerberus

Ah, yes.

Matt Эллен

20:58

I haven't completed diablo 3 yet

Mitch

I miss watching games

Cerberus

Look at 2nd-hand on Ebay.

Johan Larsson

hardware problems are painful

Matt Эллен

I think it was Diablo 3 that did for it. That game generates a lot of heat

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson And hard.

Matt Эллен

20:59

and ware

Mitch

I love the multiplayer games where you can set the computer to play all of them but with different strategies, aggressive, defensive, chaotic

Cerberus

And very ware.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus /dirty talk imo

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