English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2019-10-02 (page 2 of 4)

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6:01 PM

@Cerberus You and I had an interesting conversation a few years ago about the concept of socialized medicine in the United States. And, you'd given me a list of the wait times for various specialists. And, they were in fact on par with the average wait times in the US.

@DavidM Was it that long ago!

Waiting times have increased again here, as the demand for healthcare rises faster than the budget.

Mar 24 '14 at 4:39, by David M

The problem is that socialized medicine assumes that all doctors are equal

@Cerberus 5.5 years

@DavidM I remember the conversation.

Our system of healthcare is, I believe, the most expensive one in Europe (though probably still 40% cheaper than the American system, all related expenses added up), but it is not even in the top five or so. It's comparatively inefficient.

6:40 PM

I think the quality of US health care (on average) is on par with European health care (though there are some noticeable narrow problems like infant/mother death in childbirth is multiples times worse for African-Americans, gunshot and opiate OD deaths insanely higher (but those are social health (before you show up to the hospital)). The major difference between US and OECD is the out of pocket cost to the patient. And sadly US wins by quite a lot. Double? something like that.

@DavidM It was weird. A reasonable sober language request, followed by comments that were ... insulting? Overly sensitive?

@marcellothearcane I'm not sure I'm following. After all, "straw man" makes no sense at all in English, either. So if he translates it into Norwegian as something that makes no sense in Norwegian, he's a very good translator.

Translating is not about making things understandable.

The Moscow Times: Russian iPhone user sues Apple for turning him gay

@Cerberus @Robusto

I say that's an exceptionally easy win for the defense lawyer. You only buy an iPhone if you're gay already. Case closed.

marcellothearcane

So is it illegal to make people gay in Russia?

6:55 PM

Yes it is that's the whole point.

You've not been reading up on Russian law in the last ten years?

marcellothearcane

user image

You promote the gay lifestyle, you get 30 years of hard labour. That's 30 years of hard labour in Russia, mind. Not your Norwegian prison on a private island with a supermarket and a minigolf course.

marcellothearcane

What about being gay?

In theory or in praxis?

In theory if you're openly gay in public, that counts as promoting it and you'll get done in for it.

marcellothearcane

Well, if it's banned to be gay, why would you tell everyone in court?

6:57 PM

In praxis, there's gay parties and venues and discotheques all over Moscow.

marcellothearcane

Your honour, he made me gay

@marcellothearcane that is why the case is so interesting.

marcellothearcane

so you are gay?

Yes

Siberia. Salt. Now.

He might win the 5000 roubles or whatever he's suing them for, then get 30 years of hard labour.

I say that's a good trade.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt de facto, de jure as our Roman friends say

6:59 PM

I don't speak Pig French.

But yeah them's the same terms in Russian and German. And in English, too.

No need to bring up the Romans. Romani ite domus.

"Domus" being Turkish for "pig".

I'm still stuck on 'venus'

I was just fixing it as you were typing that.

Stop reading my shit before I'm done with reading it first.

Oh

yeah 'venues' is totally a gay word

All English words are gay.

That's why we don't speak English in Russia.

tra la la

something about pigs

7:02 PM

Pigs are not gay. I believe being a pig is not illegal in Russia.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt People called Rome they go the 'ouse?

But pigs are still scared there

Nobody is scared in Russia. Only some people outside of it are scared of it. Because they've never been.

marcellothearcane

I bet non-Russians in Russian prison are scared in Russia

anyway, 'straw man' is totally understandable. a man made of straw is easily knocked down. A scare crow also works because it is not a very substantial (or real) person.

marcellothearcane

7:04 PM

People used to call what they now call scarecrows straw men

So it would make sense to a peasant

it makes sense once explained.

@marcellothearcane how many non-Russians in Russian prisons can you name?

I am serious.

marcellothearcane

Well there was that Bill guy

but 'clean words for the money' doesn't make sense even with the explanation (and dropping the phrase)

We never had slaves. We enslaved our own people. Likewise with prisons of today.

7:05 PM

@marcellothearcane And that other guy

@Mitch is that what it is? I genuinely never knew.

marcellothearcane

That alexander litvinenko or something

@Mitch yeah, that one

That does not sound like a non-Russian name to me. Also he's dead and not in prison.

@Mitch It is on par if you exclude accessibility, which is an important criterion for the WHO. But it is 60% more expensive than European healthcare, so it is rather inefficient.

@RegDwigнt You should go to a farm sometimes. pigs and straw and all that.

marcellothearcane

7:06 PM

How 'bout that, eh Reg?

wash your hands afterwards though

@Mitch I grew up on a farm.

they'll ask about it at customs

marcellothearcane

@Mitch bigs?

@RegDwigнt you are correct. Ignore him.

And not like your fancy-dandy gay farms with electricity and running water and combine harvesters. We had scythes, we slept on hay, we shat in a hole in the ground.

marcellothearcane

7:07 PM

Bill Browder

@Cerberus I wonder if accessibility is correlated with price ... causally that is.

marcellothearcane

Is who I was talking about

He went to a Russian prison

@marcellothearcane ???

@marcellothearcane well that's a very gay name. He belongs in prison alright.

marcellothearcane

He's out now, and he's written lots of cross books

7:08 PM

@RegDwigнt The article sounds like a joke, going by the tone of the quotations... looks like the MT has been hoaxed?

@RegDwigнt You had a hole to shit in? What luxury. When we had to shit...

marcellothearcane

Actually because he thought it'd be funny to screw over Putin's friends

@Cerberus I got sent that link myself, and my immediate reaction was "is this the Onion"?

@Mitch For example, they have those bags of salty water they use in hospitals, to drip into your blood? From what I read, one bag costs €500 on average in America, €5 in Europe.

@Mitch yeah when you people have to shit, you just go on the Internet and dump it all in a comment.

marcellothearcane

7:09 PM

Which probably isn't the best way to make yourself well-received

@Mitch yeah well you sorted it out

I don't think it is related to accessibility: it is a factor all of its own.

@Cerberus and the supposed reason is nothing to do with actual production costs. It's just the americans set their prices as high as they can/

American healthcare uses 60% more money to do the same thing.

marcellothearcane

@Cerberus saline?

@Mitch From what I read, it is to do with a very intransparent, inefficient market.

7:10 PM

@marcellothearcane haha I edited to make you go crazy

marcellothearcane

npr.org/sections/money/2018/01/10/576879734/…

@marcellothearcane Yes, that.

@Cerberus That's fine by their standards. American military uses 600000% more money to not even do the same thing.

marcellothearcane

That's a good podcast about how crappy American banks are/were

Podcasts are still a thing?

7:11 PM

@RegDwigнt Hmm I don't know about that: is their army inefficient as well?

Next you'll tell me I should subscribe to your RSS feed.

@Cerberus it's very efficient at taking all the money.

Have you seen the results? Trump has not even started a war yet. Not a one.

yesterday, by RegDwigнt

Obama should give his Nobel Peace Prize to Trump.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt well it was 2008 or whatever

@RegDwigнt All right, all right.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt he has with about 50% of the voting public in America. Just not one where everyone dies.

That's loser talk.

Any American who wants to tell me that needs to go tell that to the about 50% of their fellow citizens first.

marcellothearcane

7:13 PM

I'm not American, so I'm not telling anyone

They can figure it out for themselves

Or whatever else is happening

I just believe the news

America might be a fabulous utopian communist state for all I know

They just tell everyone it isn't so they don't get swamped

@marcellothearcane Fox News or the Moscow Times?

The real funny thing is they don't tell it even to themselves.

marcellothearcane

@Mitch Thanks. Can you write a letter to my doctor?

America has always been, and is now more than ever before, more Soviet than the Soviets.

marcellothearcane

@Cerberus I've no idea where I get my news.

Mostly from people telling me stuff I don't care about

What is soviet then?

That doesn't make sense

How can something be more watery than water?

7:16 PM

Physics man, that's how

You see you get a substance with less viscosity and less dielectric force. Much much wetter that way

science is great

marcellothearcane

I didn't say wetter, I said watery

There's a difference

watery soup is just bad soup

watery water is a little soupier

marcellothearcane

If you define soviet as being like a soviet, then you can't be more soviet than a soviet.

Soup is art.

If you don't know how to make soup, don't make soup.

marcellothearcane

@Mitch sounds like a bad joke

7:19 PM

Jan 24 '14 at 13:06, by RegDwigнt

> Depends on the other substance you combine it with:
water + coffee beans = Coffee
water + vegetables = Soup
water + herbs = Tea
water + Lemon (+ sugar) = Lemonade

Holy fuck why did I ever say that and to whom.

I am a source of wisdom.

Also, dafuq is lemon capitalized.

marcellothearcane

Water + cheese = ???

water + water = watery water

Cheese soup.

My father makes literally the best cheese soup on the planet.

marcellothearcane

Water + ketchup

Can't go wrong with good cheese soup.

7:20 PM

@marcellothearcane tomato juice

marcellothearcane

Also you should add sugar to all the things

@RegDwigнt uh...

marcellothearcane

Water + mayonnaise

@marcellothearcane ketchup is unfit for soup for it is soup already. It's been cooked then reduced.

So in point of fact, ketchup = soup - water.

marcellothearcane

Ergo, ketchup = vegetables

7:21 PM

@marcellothearcane salad dressing

marcellothearcane

QED

do another

@marcellothearcane tomatoes are fruit. As everyone on the Internet will be quick to point out to you like it's some gem only they have discovered so far.

marcellothearcane

Water + toe lint

I gave up water for lint.

7:22 PM

@RegDwigнt In what way?

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt I was balancing your equations

@marcellothearcane beef tea

marcellothearcane

Toe lint = bovril

Water + potassium

Water + bricks

I am a small child

@marcellothearcane pop rocks

literally

@Cerberus it's really quite all-encompassing. From the culture to the architecture. Now that East Germany is gone, the US is the most USSR place left on Earth. Even China have long moved on.

7:24 PM

In what way is their culture Soviet?

@RegDwigнt The US gave up concrete a long time ago.

@marcellothearcane I've studied maths. My equations do not need balancing. They are perfect.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt oh whatever you call it then

Extrapolating

I call it "doing nothing".

@RegDwigнt China is only concrete now.

Russian food is worse than English food.

7:25 PM

China is the blooming landscapes that Chancellor Kohl promised East Germany would be.

marcellothearcane

Nobody knows how the Romans made concrete

@Mitch yeah nice troll. Just like Cerberus's from above.

marcellothearcane

@Mitch stop goading Reg

@marcellothearcane it was a secrete

ha ha ha ha hh aa

marcellothearcane

Yuck

7:26 PM

-8

Q: Why English SO uses Kazakh ornaments theme?

I mean this theme near "ENGLISH LANGUAGE USAGE": https://english.stackexchange.com/ You can search: "Kazakh ornaments" and get similar decorations

discussion design

@RegDwigнt If the truth is a troll then so be it.

Also English food is not bad at all. Just like English teeth aren't. It's an old wife's tale. Also, the English ladies have the hugest knockers in all of Europe.

So fuck everyone with their prejudices.

marcellothearcane

@M.A.R. concrete.

@M.A.R. what the flying fuck is that.

U-huh.

Or is it uh-huh.

Huh.

uhn-huh.

7:27 PM

Good answer by Caleb tho. How come it's only at +5.

5

A: Why English SO uses Kazakh ornaments theme?

In all likelihood, this is for similar reasons that the header to this site has colors from the Kazakh flag. Coincidence. Those shapes (flourishes) are not unique to Kazakhstan and have been used as ornaments int printed books since there was printing (which did not start in Kazakhstan). Similar ...

'cause it's not about the recent drama.

No, there are no Gold Eagle in this blue color. This ornaments are unique to KZ. Just look, just trip, or see pictures. — Egor Randomize 2 hours ago

marcellothearcane

Huh. I only know one of those close voters.

@M.A.R. only @Robusto knows how to say huhuh right. True fact. Don't even try.

You can try, and fail, to be a second-rate Robusto, or you can be the first-rate you.

@marcellothearcane People leaking in from SO.

marcellothearcane

7:28 PM

Oh that's because it's meta

@RegDwigнt So should I invent my own?

marcellothearcane

Not english.meta

Yeah what's even happening in this room. Is this where everyone seeks refuge from the evils of SE now.

@RegDwigнt That only confirms my statement.

hih-hah

Nope, too cowboyish

hah hih

Nope, too Nicholas Cage-y.

marcellothearcane

7:29 PM

@M.A.R. conniptions

@Mitch glad to be of service. You know that normally my confirming your statements would come at ten easy payments of $3000.

marcellothearcane

@M.A.R. His is ...............

You and your bloody $3000

@RegDwigнt check sent

@marcellothearcane Doesn't flow too well

@marcellothearcane No, you and your bloody $3000. Give them to me already, then you can complain how they are mine.

But not before.

marcellothearcane

7:30 PM

But I already have!

And you didn't give me a single word

@marcellothearcane That reminds me of Ghost Rider, haha

marcellothearcane

Breach of contract

I've not seen a cent from anyone in this room.

@RegDwigнt wait for the check

marcellothearcane

What about a shekel?

7:31 PM

I could set up a Patreon and make the base subscription $3000 a month and then just continue chatting there.

My nose can't pick up online scent.

marcellothearcane

Jasper would do it

Your nose can't just pick itself

But in the mean time I'll take PayPal. Or 1000 coffees over Ko-Hi or whatever them's called.

@Mitch These are Asian noses.

marcellothearcane

7:32 PM

@RegDwigнt Find a vodka one

I'm sure the SO deb-acle has been resolved peacefully.

marcellothearcane

Have you got any more vodka?

@Mitch which one are you talking about?

@marcellothearcane I only just bought a new bottle of vodka just now. And yet here I am talking to you instead. That is how nice I am.

@Mitch Haha, downvoting meta answers is relieving.

Something about mods? and pronouns?

marcellothearcane

7:33 PM

And have you finished the clarinet and guitar music?

Yes, it's up on MuseScore.

marcellothearcane

@RegDwigнt Aww thanks

Send me your details and I will buy you vodka

Not the $3000 vodka though

I don't know my details. I set up the Ko-Hi link for my YouTube channel in case anyone wanted to tip me, and then immediately forgot all about it.

@Mitch There's a shit-ton of outrage posts on several metas by now, so I guess this one sums it up well:

894

Q: Firing mods and forced relicensing: is Stack Exchange still interested in cooperating with the community?

The last weeks and days have seen some erratic behaviour by Stack Exchange Inc., such as likely illegal changes to the content license and the firing of an upstanding community moderator with no explanation except copy-pasted responses (leaving many to believe it was for no good reason). It wou...

discussion support moderators community

Maybe people have been buying me coffee by the thousands all this time, I wouldn't even know.

marcellothearcane

7:35 PM

Is there a paypal.me/reggiereggie link?

ko-fi.com/J3J1IIGZ

Don't use that one though I've long forgotten where they send the money or how I can get ahold of it.

@marcellothearcane do those exist? I thought I'd have to give you my email address.

I'm a dinosaur.

This whole IRC thing is very confusing to me, and I've not even looked into the WWW thing yet.

@M.A.R. I wish I had the time to read all that.

marcellothearcane

Hah. There's a good XKCD about that

@RegDwigнt Entertainment requires time.

Like, I spend an hour watching TV and my life is one frigging hour short.

We're the community right here. We're sitting and talking about cheese and Norway. Why would we want SE to cooperate with us on that? We're all fine in here.

marcellothearcane

user image

7:38 PM

Thank you very much indeed. Now I am sort of forced to go and check who they sent it to.

@marcellothearcane Wow, the coffee thing really matches his avatar.

marcellothearcane

It needs the glasses

@M.A.R. theregister.co.uk/2019/10/01/stack_exchange_controversy

This is also a nice summary.

Yeah that one too.

Basically, SE has gone crazy.

One of my fellow mods on Latin has already resigned.

marcellothearcane

7:39 PM

So has the register

I dunno, it's not out of character, to be frank

marcellothearcane

Stick to bofh

The others are considering resigning too.

But you already know better than me

marcellothearcane

Why though?

You might as well make it the site you want, until you get fired

7:40 PM

Why what?

@M.A.R. I suppose not. But this is the first time they've alienated the majority of moderators.

@marcellothearcane For those that keep up with the news, it's been a soul-draining two years.

SE cut one of the site's traffic by 90 percent over an overblown SJW tweet.

@Cerberus gee you are really good at selling this thing. I'm almost tempted to go and read.

While the regulars and the mods of that site had asked SE for help for months.

Then again the last time I did, it was just some guy complaining how everyone would go to hell while he was going to heaven.

7:42 PM

@RegDwigнt The Register article is fairly short. No pressure!

I didn't get it.

@RegDwigнt You're already an alien.

@M.A.R. Right, there was that.

I'm an illegal alien. I'm not an English man not in New York.

marcellothearcane

@M.A.R. I'm a newbie, so wouldn't have a clue about dramas

7:43 PM

@Cerberus Then there was some drama over changing a variable called 'dude' in some answer to 'person'.

It's a frigging variable name. A placeholder. Sheesh.

@marcellothearcane then maybe you might actually enjoy reading it for entertainment. You're in an advantageous position for that.

Isn't it kinda offensive to assume it's over these things that women feel marginalized in tech? YMMV.

@marcellothearcane Aw, my rule is don't spoil it then.

I have something else for you to read.

@M.A.R. give me the link and I'll change it right back. Then change it to Hitler.

marcellothearcane

I've seen this debacle

212

Q: Let's take a look at the interaction between staff and the "power users" of the network

Recently, it was announced that the "Hot on Meta" questions would no longer show up on the SO sidebar. Sara Chipps elaborated a drop on why: Stack Overflow Employees have panic attacks and nightmares when they know they will need to post something to Meta. They are real human beings that are ...

discussion hot-questions stack-exchange-team welcoming

marcellothearcane

7:45 PM

By this I mean the Monica one

I pronounce it deh-buh-CLAY

Women do not feel marginalized in tech. That's such a broad statement it's utterly useless. It is not even wrong.

I work in a tech company and nobody feels marginalized.

@marcellothearcane My MO has been that if you're starting out with something, don't ruin the best material by reading it firsthand.

marcellothearcane

Before that I was too busy hiding from Edwin

If someone feels marginalized in your company, then your company sucks.

7:46 PM

If you're starting out with movies, don't watch The Dark Knight. Or 2001, or Tree of Life.

It's not because it's a tech company. It's because it's a suck company.

@M.A.R. OMG. 2001 is so boring

@RegDwigнt A breathing apparatus

marcellothearcane

@M.A.R. because everything pales in comparison?

Dyson is a tech company that sucks

2

@marcellothearcane That too, but mostly because you'd definitely miss out on most of the stuff that makes the movie unique.

7:48 PM

@M.A.R. Haha, seriously??

I think people just go batshit over Ledger, they don't think about all the Nietzsche.

Who?

@marcellothearcane I kinda want to see the series finale for this and not bother with all of seasons 2 through 8.

I think Sapir and Whorf have done more damage than they might have imagined. They have, in a way, created a new religion with tons of self-fulfiling superstition and intolerance.

2

marcellothearcane

@Mitch 2.8 on rotten tomatoes

7:50 PM

@marcellothearcane spurious bot voting

marcellothearcane

That was Reg

All Russians are botnets

@Cerberus giving a name to it woudn't make a difference, people still think language is destiny.

Also, neither Sapir nor Whorf believed it, they just made half a sentence alluding very obliquely to the vague possibility.

Or maybe that was Duhem-Quine.

@Mitch Calling your religion "Christianity" and advertising it and building churches and writing music does make a difference.

@marcellothearcane They're badass so their vote counts as 1000 instead.

Who would believe in Christ if he had no name?

7:53 PM

@Cerberus I wish I weren't

@RegDwigнt Oho... -now- you think English food is any good?

@M.A.R. I can make your vote count as 1000 for a mere ten easy payments of $3000.

I'm not even joking, that should get you a Russian passport.

@RegDwigнt Buddhism is pretty popular and that guy doesn't have a name.

@RegDwigнt You call it easy.

@Mitch His name is Buddha.

7:54 PM

He's -the- Buddha. It's what he is, but it's not his name

@M.A.R. well it is very easy for me.

@RegDwigнt And Russian health care.

And Russian cuisine.

@Mitch call him the Excavator instead and see how many people follow him then.

@RegDwigнt 8.9 on Rotten Tomato

See? 8.9 people are not a lot.

And who wants to be followed on Rotten Tomatoes.

7:56 PM

Add water and you got ketchup

@Mitch I follow Jamie Oliver.

That's how I know how to make ketchup, too.

Where's everyone gone anyway?

Is everyone now reading those 894 posts on how typing "dude" on SE makes you a Kazakh?

@RegDwigнt Link please

I couldn't find the 'dude' post.

30 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

5

A: Why English SO uses Kazakh ornaments theme?

In all likelihood, this is for similar reasons that the header to this site has colors from the Kazakh flag. Coincidence. Those shapes (flourishes) are not unique to Kazakhstan and have been used as ornaments int printed books since there was printing (which did not start in Kazakhstan). Similar ...

Oh, the dude post.

I don't know about that one. Ask @M.A.R.

That's just, like, your opinion man.

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