English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

14:00

The boys are playing them this morning.

Everybody is playing games except for me. sulks

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

BBS

noooo :(

I think the hangman room is free.

Matt Эллен

I have an XBox controller (wired) that works well on the PC

KitFox

Anyway, I hooked up the controller and stuff, but I forgot that mapping keystrokes takes a lot of patience.

I managed to play a level of Heretic, but I need to put more thought into the layout.

It will be great once I do that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox are you still playing Heretic? I finished the first episode and have moved onto the second, but kinda forgot about it.

KitFox

I also got Baldur's Gate because it was on sale and I thought it might have some native support, but of course, everything wanted to take hours to download last night.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not until last night. It looks pretty good on my TV.

I mean, for what it is.

Playing through the Doomsday Engine makes a big difference.

I was frustrated with little things. Well, with every little thing.

So I think we'll play HL2 again tonight.

tchrist

14:08

The STRIPED FLAG of the EAST INDIA COMPANY, and its CONNEXION with the AMERICAN "STARS and STRIPES" Article by Sir Charles Fawcett

KitFox

You're a grand old flag, you're a high-flying flag, and forever in peace may you wave.

You're the emblem of the land I love, the home of the free and the brave.

Every heart beats true for the red, white, and blue, where there's never a boast nor a brag.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Do any restaurants in your country ever play Dota song or Skrillex dubstep musics for customers?

KitFox

So should auld acquaintance be forgot, keep your eye on the grand old flag!

Best patriotic song ever.

Matt Эллен

Flag worship?! But idolatory is a sin.

iAmbitious

India was loosed his freedom due to East India Company

Matt Эллен

14:17

"India lost its freedom"

iAmbitious

Yeah, Initially India Company came in India for only business purpose...

After that they start make rules on people ...

O0oO0oOO0ooO

It's never a lame thing to play Dubstep or Dota song in a high quality restaurant in Korea because no body can understand the lyrics nor they are aware of what dubstep is.

iAmbitious

here give the complete information how they start rule on India en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

KitFox

@MattЭллен I'm a sinner. That's why my computer keeps freezing up.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

How did India lost its freedom?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:25

Matt Эллен

@KitFox because your computer is hell!

iAmbitious

East India Company 1612–1757
Company rule in India 1757–1858

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 nice

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Isn't Indian economy rapidly growing and it is promised that it's going to catch up USA by 2020?

iAmbitious

hehehe its wrong.

Matt Эллен

14:27

@O0oO0oOO0ooO lose

KitFox

I'm off to play. See you all later!

Matt Эллен

CU! Happy Fireworks Day

iAmbitious

Government of India didn't standing on its given committed to the country People

O0oO0oOO0ooO

@MattЭллен Ooops

iAmbitious

the system start collapse due to bad Corruption

O0oO0oOO0ooO

14:29

Looks like we've got a grammar police!

KitFox

@MattЭллен I'll explode some stuff for you and drink tea.

Ciao.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yay!

O0oO0oOO0ooO

That's quite a depressing story of India, I always thought India is a mythical and exotic but beautiful place.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

An Indian state just ruled that if you have sex with someone, you are married to them.

RegDwighт

BRB raping a millionaire.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

14:34

Oh my guoood... then what's the point of having condoms in India?

iAmbitious

Yes. India is good place. But some people make corrupt it.

I think its all due to bad education and holes in the Rule of Goverment.

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what have they been reading? the Old Testament?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox hooray!

Bang!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez I dunno. It's odd. The ruling is really badly worded. In context, it is meant to codify the concept of common-law marriage, that is, if you act like you're married then the law considers you married. But the wording just says, roughly, "if you have sex, then you are married."

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Have you ever seen "Wapanese" in real life or you can generally find them only on Internet?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:40

what is that

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Wapanese?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yes

iAmbitious

Many people still believe in Arrange marriage

Matt Эллен

believe in

iAmbitious

thanks

Matt Эллен

14:41

no probs :)

O0oO0oOO0ooO

It's a word combination of White and Japanese, similarly there is a term "Wigger".

So Wapanese people are Japanese wannabees who knows 5~6 Japanese words but use them in conjunction of normal English

something like "I am better than you in Japanese desu"

Matt Эллен

at Japanese

O0oO0oOO0ooO

XD... I am helpless

Matt Эллен

:D

iAmbitious

Today is Independence day Of America

O0oO0oOO0ooO

14:52

I figured out about Jedward today and their musics are irritating.

Matt Эллен

intimidating? I must admit, I've not knowingly heard it

also, music is a mass noun (normally) so it doesn't need an s

O0oO0oOO0ooO

really?

Matt Эллен

yes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

not only does it not need s, it uses singular agreement: their music is irritating.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Do you think Jedward (Irish) came out in competition of the British boyband One Direction?

Matt Эллен

14:58

I think Jedward have been around longer than 1 direction. They're the product of X-Factor, I think

In fact, both groups are from the X-Factor

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

why is it "The X-Factor" instead of just "X-Factor"

Matt Эллен

I don't know. I don't know enough about it

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hm, I guess that's what the show calls itself.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Sounds like there are going to be a lot of multi-person marriages, not to mention no end of same-sex marriages, coming out of this. I just hope they have pity on the sheep.

Matt Эллен

there was that time some man was forced to marry a goat...

but that was in Sudan

tchrist

15:08

I can’t even imagine what it would have been like to have been auto-married at 13.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist every breakup would require a trip to Family Court

tchrist

@MattЭллен Ah, the whole bride-price thing.

Matt Эллен

Wives as chattel

tchrist

Peculiarly but impecuniously peculating ones.

> f. L. pecūlāt-, ppl. stem of pecūlārī to embezzle, f. pecūlium private property, orig. in cattle, f. pecu cattle, money.

Cattle, chattle, wives, and money: once upon a time, it was all much the same thing.

In some places, perhaps it still is.

Sudhir

@MattЭллен:You got your ans?

The colour of the bus and the colour of the coach are red?

Matt Эллен

15:20

I know the answer: it should be is

there is only one colour

tchrist

> “Mom’s preference and dad’s preference is for you to finish your term.”

> “Mom’s preference and dad’s preference are the same here.”

> “The president and CEO is John Smith.”

> “The president and CEO are both women.”

Matt Эллен

The president's gender and the CEO's gender is female

RegDwighт

Matt Эллен

I've been given the dubious honour of naming our first release (like how Google name releases of Android). Magic the Gathering Planeswalker names was suggested as a category I could use

simchona

My old company did bugs. Honeybee, Inchworm, etc.

Matt Эллен

15:31

I quite liked the idea of rodents

simchona

Alphabetical rodents?

Matt Эллен

I was going to go in size order

If I could figure that out

simchona

Oh, that could be fun. From dormouse to capybara.

Matt Эллен

exactly

simchona

And also R.O.U.S.

Matt Эллен

15:35

ha! I'd forgotten about that

tchrist

@MattЭллен Good idea!

Matt Эллен

@tchrist I would start with Sarkahn the Mad, as I'm not sure the product won't selfdestruct releasing dragons as it does

tchrist

@Cerberus I cannot get the theme song from Gilligan’s Island out of my head, about seven stranded castaways on a three-hour tour.

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful trip, That started from this tropic port, aboard this tiny ship. The mate was a mighty sailin' man, the Skipper brave and sure. Five passengers set sail that day for a three hour tour. A three hour tour.
The weather started getting rough, the tiny ship was tossed. If not for the courage of the fearless crew, the Minnow would be lost. The Minnow would be lost.
The ship set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle, with Gilligan, the Skipper too, the Millionaire and his wife, the movie star, the Professor and Mary Ann…

Matt Эллен

commute

tchrist

gilligansisle.com/theme.html

►

> Now this is the tale of the castways, they're here for a long, long time, they'll have to make the best of things, it's an uphill climb. The first mate and the Skipper too, will do their very best, to make the others comfortable, in the tropic island nest. No phone, no lights, no motor cars, not a single luxury, like Robinson Crusoe, as primative as can be. So join us here each week my friends, you're sure to get a smile, from seven stranded castways, here on "Gilligan's Isle."

►

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:47

huh. Never realized Weird Al stole that bolded line for a lyric in "Amish Paradise".

tchrist

15:58

You didn’t watch reruns as a kid?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

nope

tchrist

A deprived childhood.

Révélations sur le Big Brother français

> Si les révélations sur le programme d'espionnage américain Prism ont provoqué un concert d'indignation en Europe, la France, elle, n'a que faiblement protesté. Pour deux excellentes raisons : Paris était déjà au courant. Et fait la même chose.

Like, duh!

> la totalité de nos communications sont espionnées. L'ensemble des mails, des SMS, des relevés d'appels téléphoniques, des accès à Facebook, Twitter, sont ensuite stockés pendant des années.

> Si cette immense base de données n'était utilisée que par la DGSE qui n'officie que hors des frontières françaises, l'affaire serait déjà illégale. ... En toute discrétion, en marge de la légalité et hors de tout contrôle sérieux. Les politiques le savent parfaitement, mais le secret est la règle.

The bastards won’t show me the rest of the article.

They will only show you the first sixth of it.

Voici the entire article.

> Le dispositif est parfaitement illégal – "a-légal", corrige l'un des patrons d'une des agences de renseignement. "Le régime juridique des interceptions de sécurité interdit la mise en œuvre par les services de renseignement, d'une procédure telle que Prism, assure la Commission nationale de l'informatique et des libertés (CNIL).

WTF is the difference between illégal and a-légal, eh?

> La loi encadre certes strictement les interceptions de sécurité, autorisées par le premier ministre, sur avis de la Commission nationale consultative des interceptions de sécurité (CNCIS), mais n'a en rien prévu un stockage massif de données techniques par les services secrets.

> "Voilà des années que nous sommes dans l'autorisation virtuelle, confie l'un des anciens patrons des services. Et chaque agence se satisfait bien de cette liberté permise grâce au flou juridique qui existe autour de la métadonnée."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'd guess one is prohibited by law and one is outside what the law considers

anyway lunch time.

tchrist

I smell a rat.

> Les demandes de consultations sont loin de se limiter au seul terrorisme ou à la défense du patrimoine économique.

But I’m sure that Obama is right that “everybody” does this.

> La France est dans le top 5 en matière de capacité informatique, derrière les États-Unis, la Grande-Bretagne, Israël et la Chine.

tchrist

16:27

I haz question! Wut tenze is “it has bein write” in?

-1

A: Exact meaning of "You must be kidding"?

you must be kidding.? mean are you try to disceive me. :it has bein write by Danjuma;

MετάEd

@tchrist What, bug embassies? Obviously.

tchrist

@MετάEd No, not that.

Collect all meta-data on all communications everywhere that everyone does wherever they can get their hands on it.

Bugs collect data, not metadata.

Insofar as those are dinguishable.

MετάEd

@tchrist All governments collect whatever data might be useful, whether it's meta or not, and whether it's cricket or not.

tchrist

Exactly.

MετάEd

17:31

@tchrist Is there any downside to deleting the Derp question? What's the effect on Derp's reputation?

tchrist

@MετάEd Which one?

The Coke question?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I printed a gun.

tchrist

Chinese?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Sentry.

tchrist

Odd looking.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

17:45

google.com/…

tchrist

Thought you were talking about Sentry Foods.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Didn't go to those, I don't think. Went to Woodman's.

Even got the tote bag.

tchrist

We have neither here, but both at home.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

They're all almost exclusively in [your home state].

tchrist

That would do it.

No Piggly Wiggly either.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

17:50

We had those briefly.

And Schnucks.

tchrist

Never heard of that one.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I'm gonna see whether the craft store is open.

Probably get some coffee.

tchrist

The last book I updated, Programming Perl 4th edition, consistently gets more than twice as many paper sales as electronic.

This is unusual.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Good.

Paper is wonderful.

tchrist

Other books are 50-50 or worse.

The old Perl Cookbook 2nd edition gets about 6:5 electronic-to-paper.

Don’t know why there is such a disparity.

I so hate it when I get mouse misfirings causing me to do something virtually irrevocable.

Life is not a video game. I want precision.

Hm, the sales during the first few months of release were 4:1 paper over electronic. Now it’s down to 2:1, which is still a huge lead compared with most other books whose exact data I have access to.

Robusto

18:20

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Schnucks! Haven't heard that name since we left St. Louis.

Someone told me their advertising line used to be: "We're people like you. Schnucks." And they might have wondered why they didn't get a lot of Jewish traffic (outside of the fact that Missouri isn't exactly New York).

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

18:48

@Robusto Ha!

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Have we talked about the terrible state of pizza in Missouri (or at least St. Louis)?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto eew! Maybe.

Imo's makes me ill.

Robusto

Yes. Imo's. Damn, the worst pizza on the planet.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I always pronounced it shnooks.

Robusto

That's how it's pronounced in their commercials.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

18:55

That's not as close to schmucks.

Robusto

shnook is a euphemism for shmuck in Yiddish.

It's like heck vs. hell.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

O! OIC.

EClaesson

Sorry for interrupting, but are there any name for this sort of "chart" imgur.com/2BWDDQ9 ?

Robusto

Flow chart?

RegDwighт

20:54

@EClaesson tournament tree.

Source: I work in graph layout.

Bracket (tournament)

A bracket is a tree diagram that represents the series of games played during a tournament, named as such because it appears to be a large number of interconnected (punctuational) brackets. There are several kinds of brackets, adapted to different types of tournaments. The most common are: *Single elimination brackets *Double elimination brackets The "art" of filling in brackets, especially in NCAA basketball, is referred to as bracketology. Usage in North America Brackets are commonly found in major North American professional sports leagues. Often, at the end of the regular seaso...

Aka elimination bracket, playoff tree, and so on and so forth.

Structurally it is a tree as any CS student will tell you.

tchrist

21:07

@RegDwighт Really?

If so, then you might have knowledge I’m seeking.

RegDwighт

Hah don't hold your breath just yet. I am the marketing guy. I don't write the code, I sell it.

tchrist

I have to make a graph showing the class relationships of a bunch of classes. It sounds easy, but there are a lot of classes to show. I would prefer it were programmatic. I looked at a CPAN module that alleged to do this, but I never did get it to work. What tool would you suggest? If not programmatic, then Mac or Unix would be better but Microsoft tolerable.

This is a directed graph, of course, not a tree.

Acyclic, blah blah.

I’m so non-GUI a guy, I think vi is the graphical interface to ed.

RegDwighт

Define "a lot". Everyone always falls over their feet to suggest Graphviz, but it basically dies a slow and painful death if you have a couple hundred nodes.

tchrist

Well, at least 150.

RegDwighт

Peanuts.

tchrist

21:12

I tried Class::Sniff, which is really what I want, but it seemed to be in a race with the heat death of the universe.

It uses Graph::Easy, which I haven’t looked at. Perhaps I could hand assemble. But surely there are tools for this.

Basically, think of graphing a huge whole lot of per-package @ISA inheritance arrays.

RegDwighт

Our tool, or really pretty much every tool out there, requires that you translate your data into a special format pretty much nobody else uses. To my knowledge, any and all publicly available modules suck balls and you are well advised to just hack it yourself from scratch.

tchrist

I think the Class::Sniff problem was that it wanted to go up into all the included libraries, instead of just showing everything in the graph from one node below.

I was afraid you were going to say that. I was starting to come to that same conclusion myself, but hoped I’d been missing something.

The people at $job use Visio, but you can’t feed that data. It’s a closed system requiring 100% handwork so far as I know.

Hm, I guess I could ask on SO. :)

Yeah, ok, Graph::Easy looks like the way to go.

RegDwighт

Our input format is GDL, fka VCG, and we have, or had, all kinds of in-house modules that translated all kinds of data into it, from VB to C to GED to apache log files to you name it, but it's a thankless job because every single user always needs something entirely different from the previous one.

@tchrist Visio is really the exact opposite of what you're looking for.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Yeah, really.

RegDwighт

@tchrist that one should actually support our format as well as Graphviz, last time I checked. Which was like four years ago.

tchrist

21:20

> Graph::Easy - Convert or render graphs (as ASCII, HTML, SVG or via Graphviz)

If it can render in Graphviz, that should be good enough, right?

RegDwighт

At 150 nodes? I suppose. Not exactly rocket surgery.

search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Graph-Easy-0.73/lib/Graph/…

> GDL/VCG Creates a textual description of the graph in the VCG or GDL (Graph Description Language) format.

tchrist

Yes, exactly. No rockets needed. But something more than ->as_ascii, thank you very much.

RegDwighт

Supports GraphML, too.

I think I begin to remember that guy.

He contacted me, must be like seven years ago, asking about some undocumented intricacies.

Though if I were you I'd opt for ASCII art, of course.

tchrist

Heh. :)

The people this is for are, well, differently biased compared to me.

RegDwighт

Then perhaps Visio will make a sudden comeback. Or you'll just use Powerpoint.

tchrist

21:23

Wah.

I can’t use any of those.

RegDwighт

Nobody can. That's their unique selling proposition.

tchrist

Visio is plenty big where I work. It’s the thing that people use.

I tried.

Jesus wept.

RegDwighт

I feel you bro.

Now go try SAP R/3.

tchrist

Ew.

RegDwighт

Just for the sake of completeness, you know.

tchrist

21:26

Only Scott Adams truly knows the horrors of the place I work. He comicked it, or close enough as makes no never mind.

Hundreds of thousands of drones.

I’m sure there are dens of SAP R/3 there.

RegDwighт

I have no idea how SAP make their money. Or Microsoft, for that matter. I honestly cannot comprehend it.

tchrist

I have people sending me high-bit bytes who tell me they aren’t, all because some blasted data-entry operator in Dysropa used her fancy keyboard to type in España in some random fricking Microsoft encoding.

I can’t get my head around any of these ultra-giant places.

RegDwighт

I am not up to full speed on Spanish encodings but I bet a NY bagel they are not anywhere as batshit crazy as the Russians.

tchrist

I remember there are a bunch of Cyrillic encodings, yeah. But those aren’t are customers thank goodness.

RegDwighт

Still today, there are any number of Russian sites offered in 3+ different encodings, of which exactly none work in your browser.

tchrist

21:31

It’s bad enough that the damned Australians send localtime timestamps tagged with things like "CST".

RegDwighт

And by "your" I mean "any", of course.

tchrist

You have to get the full phone number with country-code prefix being from Australia to realize their CST is not your CST.

RegDwighт

CST + 11.

tchrist

Why don’t people just unify-upgrade into UTF-8?

RegDwighт

Rhetorical question is rhetorical.

tchrist

21:34

Rumor has it that someone was going to be sending in UTF-8, and they were vetoed because the C programmers on the other end didn’t know how to handle it reasonably.

They said just send us bytes.

Pretty sure those are bytes.

RegDwighт

Hobbytes.

Now what I wonder is if I can open my MRT results on this machine.

tchrist

MRI?

RegDwighт

Yes, same thing.

> Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), nuclear magnetic resonance imaging (NMRI), or magnetic resonance tomography (MRT)

tchrist

Don’t they usually come with an M$FT viewer?

RegDwighт

I dunno. I think I'll go ahead and check out what's on this CD-ROM they gave me.

Or is it a DVD-ROM.

tchrist

21:39

Yeah, they give you discs now when you have imaging done.

RegDwighт

Holy crap. Look at that icon.

And Borland? Borland is a thing?

tchrist

Floppy?

RegDwighт

Well yes floppy, but I mean the art itself.

Straight from the eighties here I come.

tchrist

Medical industry. Inherently conservative, like the space industry.

8-bit graphics.

RegDwighт

Hah. You wouldn't know how wrong you are.

tchrist

21:42

When the doc showed me the MRI scans on his viewer, it looked better than that icon.

RegDwighт

Tell you what. We do static analysis and verification of embedded systems. Like, space industry, flight control, airbags, nuclear. Serious shit. Now we decided that we want to do medical as well. So our CEO visited some major medical industry fair, the medical industry fair, and he came back in complete shock and now we're not sure we want to have anything to do with safety-critical embedded medicine stuff at any point in our lives.

All that medical equipment, what it runs is Windows. Boilerplate Windows. My Vista Home is safer than what they have.

And their idea of doing, say, run-time error analysis, is "perhaps we could start checking if our JavaScript syntax is correct".

I am not making this up.

tchrist

Yes, I know.

You certainly never want to be in a position to be the one who has to “certify” them against anything.

And just the idea of using them is scary.

RegDwighт

So yeah. There's no chance in hell we're selling them some abstract-interpretation tool for a couple hundred thousand per node-locked license any time soon. I could, however, sell them a couple JavaScript tips I happen to have as a not-noteworthy webmaster.

tchrist

Sturgeon’s Law is recursive.

RegDwighт

^ every piece of medical equipment ever, for all we know now.

tchrist

21:53

> "You know what I hate? It's all the 'My' stuff these days. Hailstorm has MyProfile, MyNotifications, MyContacts (I lose them all the time), MyWallet, MyUsage. . . Please! I'm not a three year-old or a Jack Russell Terrier. I'm not mesmerized by the first person singular possessive pronoun. I know that if it's in Hailstorm it's not mine; Microsoft has it and charges me to use it. I'm old-fashioned; I keep MyWallet in MyPants, next to MyAss. And guess what you can do, MyCrosoft?"

RegDwighт

Wait, that's so 1990. MyEverything got superseded by iEverything. And even that one's on its way out now.

tchrist

Yes, Frank Willison died in 2001. It’s his quote, from a list of them.

RegDwighт

Ah yes.

Robusto

@RegDwighт If you have to ask, it's probably not.

@tchrist Sherlock's brother is MyCroft Holmes. They started it.

RegDwighт

@Robusto Seriously, these are not the kind of people who can't tell a cache from a pipeline, these are the kind of people who can't tell JavaScript from Java. And who can't tell why the hell anyone should be expected to be able to tell.

It's quite disheartening in every respect.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…