English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@JasperLoy Hi.

Can I help you at all?

user19161

@Cerberus I think I have run out of edits for myself. Can you help me retag two of my questions?

Sure.

I will add the balrog tag to them.

A: Because vs. due to with adjectives?

flying-balrog, if you please.

user19161

@Cerberus english.stackexchange.com/questions/10067/… and english.stackexchange.com/questions/8878/… to only the grammaticality tag.

user19161

1:30 AM

0

It is better to use because of for verbs and due to for nouns, so write X is better than Y in most cases because of lack of support for Y. Here the verb is is. Otherwise, rewrite it as X being better than Y in most cases is due to lack of support for Y. Here the noun is the gerund bei...

@Robusto I'm sure nobody will object to such an uncontroversial tag.

user19161

Also @cerb may I have your opinion on this answer of mine? I am not sure if it is right.

So you want me to remove the other two tags?

Why, if I may be so bold?

You don't consider so a conjunction?

user19161

@Cerberus Yes, each to just the grammaticality tag. Because I feel it is not really about the other tags so much. I feel that overtagging things makes it harder to search.

All right, then.

Done.

Q: Can "due to" and "because of" be used interchangeably?

1:34 AM

Same here. CU.

user19161

@Cerberus OK thanks. Now may I ask you to assess my answer above?

user19161

@Robusto Bye.

user19161

8

Is it fine to use "due to" in place of "because of"? How about the other way around? Are any of these sentences ungrammatical? He was lost because of the storm. He was lost due to the storm. He lost his way due to the storm. He lost his way because of the storm.

Bye Rob.

user19161

Actually I found the above question to be related to my above answer.

1:39 AM

Hey hiyo.

I have a meta-meta question.

user19161

Are you home @tch?

At last.

I've been home while.

Took me about 70–75 minutes. Sucks. So hate the car.

Here’s the question.

Is it a fit topic for meta to discuss close options?

I think so.

user19161

@tchrist Of course!

So the followup is based on your observation that “everything” is GR, or could be.

user19161

You mean discussing which a specific question should be closed as?

1:41 AM

No.

user19161

Then?

I mean discussing closing questions as GR.

> This question is too basic; it can be definitively and permanently answered by a single link to a standard internet reference source designed specifically to find that type of information.

What do you think about making is so that the close let you put this alleged link in, like with dup questions?

user19161

And what is your meta post going to look like?

Has it been discussed?

@JasperLoy Um I don't know what to think. I haven't made up my mind yet.

1:42 AM

And if not, should it be?

My perception is that people wave the GR flag without actually being able to put a link in.

However, there is a problem.

People are constantly asking for the difference between foo and bar and glarch.

That takes three links.

The idea is that people should not be rewarded with the link.

user19161

@tchrist I think that GR need not be just that case where a link can answer.

Or they will come back and ask similar questions, presumably.

I deplore this reasoning, of course.

user19161

GR can also be something considered very basic by the community but yet there is no such link.

@Cerberus Did you mean "should not" for "should"?

1:45 AM

@tchrist Some form accepting several links could be used.

@tchrist Yes: I had be be instead of not be, my apologies.

That is, if you give them fish, they’ll come back wanting more, just like any other trained seal?

I often do that, type double words instead of a necessary word.

@tchrist Yes, even if you hit them with the fish.

1 min ago, by Cerberus

I deplore this reasoning, of course.

I remember how down @Reg gets about the front page being filled with closed questions.

Is it wrong to give an answer to a GR question?

user19161

@tchrist Not wrong in the sense that you are not hurting anyone.

@tchrist You have my blessing.

user19161

1:48 AM

For me, I find that if a link itself is enough, then comment with a link and closevote.

user19161

If there needs to be nontrivial elaboration, then answer and don't closevote.

Every time I do this, I get ridiculous amounts of reps.

I personally couldn't care less about the close-happy people around here, and I answer any question I darn well please.

I'm trying to understand what that really means.

But I feel guilting close-voting something I put my own answer on.

user19161

In short, just do what you think is right, knowing that others have other ideas, as long as it is not an act of vandalism.

1:50 AM

To some extent, it depends just how charitable and patient I am at the time. I wish it were otherwise.

Then post a link, as Jasper says—if that is truly all it takes to completely answer the question, that's what I do.

How could vandalism ever be right?

user19161

I take 9000 years to decide how to tag a question for example. Some things are not clear cut.

The new "recommend deletion" thingie has this one justification for deletion being that it's just a link — a real answer, mind you, not spam — but just a link.

If the link dies, the answer is worthless.

That suggests that answering with links is considered wrong.

And yet, that's GR.

Blah.

I must be too tired to think clearly.

user19161

Also, it's stupid to leave questions unanswered and lying around the site.

1:52 AM

This should not be so difficult to feel out one's proper moral path through.

user19161

Either delete the closed questions or keep them if they are signposts.

God, I cannot even construct an English sentence.

user19161

But don't comment with a perfectly good answer so that it technically remains unanswered.

It is, like, hard.

@tchrist What is this r. d. thing?

user19161

You see, many people doing the closing or opening may not even think about what we are thinking about now.

1:54 AM

Or is it only for low-reps?

No, or I wouldn’t see it.

No offence intended.

Where do you see it?

user19161

You mean the 10k tools?

user19161

One can see the deletion votes cast.

No, the new review-beta.

1:55 AM

Oh.

I've known about the 10k tools for years. This is different.

Let me find the link.

Where do I find this beta?

Q: Because vs. due to with adjectives?

Right here.

Reg has been busy today.

Try to recommend deletion — you can renege later. Look at the delete options.

user19161

3

I know that "because of" modifies verbs, whereas "due to" modifies nouns. However, what do I do if I see something like: We find that X is better than Y is most cases, due to lack of support for Y. Here, it seems like "due to" is modifying "better," an adjective (I think). Is "due to" accep...

grammar

user19161

Anyway, I deleted my answer and closevoted this as ED.

1:57 AM

Yes, Jasper; what about it?

Oh, you found a dup then. Good for you!

So this is a low-rep thingie?

Or am I looking in the wrong place?

user19161

@tchrist Not really, but I think it is good enough to be one.

Huh.

20k can delete low rep posts without a cooling off period.

But only a few per day.

user19161

@tchrist Those that are closed.

@JasperLoy Or negative answers.

Which is what I was talking about.

I always blow my delete votes early.

1:59 AM

@tchrist I can probably only vote to delete, not delete immediately.

It shows me lots of recommend deletion then.

No, none of us delete immediately unless the threshold is reached.

Moment.

Ah.

Even a 20k user cannot deletevote that until it goes negative. Hence, recommend deletion. Maybe.

And 10k users can also deletevote those, after a bit.

The point is the link part.

I wonder how many delete recommendations it takes.

Maybe it doesn't work that way.

I...have no idea.

The message on each one gets attached to the posting as a comment.

I stopped doing it when people kept wanting to argue with me.

I'd rather go find them, downvote them negative, then hit them with a proper delete vote.

It's worth a point of rep, which you get back anyway.

2:08 AM

Just do whatever you feel is best.

This site is supposed to be fun.

I don't want to argue with them.

It's like users coming back and arguing with you for close votes.

Can you imagine if they knew who downvoters were?

Why is everybody dying?

What?

Who?

The animated little boxy deaths.

Plummeting to their dooms.

What?

All at once.

2:11 AM

Ah, those.

I didn't notice anything.

Oh.

Do we inhabit different worldviews?

I sometimes wonder with these things.

I prefer to think of it as reinforcements for us her down under.

@Reg always sees things minutes before they appear to me.

Different world views? Inhabit?

You appear to be inhabiting space at the moment...

For example, do you and I see the same ordering of chat messages?

2:12 AM

I think so.

So you see the same deaths as I do?

But only after a couple of seconds.

It is hard to know for sure.

Probably. But my screen is too large to spot them.

There seems to be some latency in the network.

Which is a stupid thing to say.

2:13 AM

Yes.

All networks have latency.

I often see a line pop up above my line.

Yes, exactly. What is that about?

They're trying to enforce same-view ordering!

How . . . philosophical.

I figure it is simply that your own message appears immediately, but server polls are less regular, and messages are eventually sorted by time of arrival, and then the displayed order may change based on this new information.

Yes, same-view ordering.

This past week’s issue of the Economist is still unread. I feel very tired. I think I’m going to take it to bed with me.

2:15 AM

Gleichschaltung can be practical, you know.

I was avoiding words.

You are absolved. As long as you don't feel forced to keep up with newspapers just because.

There seem to be many for these sorts of things.

It has a couple articles I wish to read.

For Gleichschaltung?

No, moment.

2:16 AM

Moment?

Weltanschauung
Weltansicht
Weltbild

Weltliteratur

Weltpolitik
Weltschmerz

What are you talking about?

They're very worldly, you see.

But Weltanschauung was the word I was thinking of.

What about it?

Do we share world-views?

2:18 AM

Define world view.

We probably share many things but not all.

This was with respect to latency.

Whether we dwelt in the same worldview.

I'm not sure what you mean.

We probably don't have the same latency.

If my ordering is not the same as yours, we don't dwell in the same world.

I would expect yours to be lower.

So we have different worldviews.

Are you still on your cell?

2:20 AM

What does this word mean to you? This is not a Weltanschauung.

No, I came home yesterday.

I’m bending it to apply it here.

Is it not one’s perception of the world?

It commonly means one's opinions on politics and philosophy, I would say.

Well, yes.

Sonic The Hedgehog

"There is nothing more terrifying and verbose than an etymologist flame war." - John Green the Nerdfighter

I said I was bending it to the occasion.

1934 M. Bodkin Archetypal Patterns in Poetry 326 ― A man’s philosophy·· is his Weltanschauung-the individual vision, or perspective of reality.

Perspective on reality.

2:23 AM

Bending it, but OK.

You just mean each man's perceptions in the philosophical sense?

No.

As in phenomology?

In the physical sense.

Oh.

That's the twist.

2:24 AM

How is that different?

It matters with network latencies.

Oh! You two. What are you wearing? ;)

More than yesterday.

Which are not normally a subject of philosophical difficulty.

Two socks.

@cornbreadninja A hoodie with a zipper and a cigarette-burn hole, amongst other things.

2:25 AM

The dead are risen.

@tchrist Wow.

Am I wrong?

Doctors must have studied you.

@Cerberus Aww, did you make the hole?

@tchrist Eh I'm still not sure what you're getting at.

@cornbreadninja Nope, I found the hole one night after leaving the hoodie on a bar stool.

2:27 AM

I see. Well, Weltschmerz beckons, and so to avert it, I must now retire, with kitty and Ecorag in hand. Hands.

@Cerberus :(

@tchrist I could leave. Tis my fault.

@tchrist Understandable. Ponder this question of yours and give me a fresh formulation in the morning.

@cornbreadninja It was cheap, and it is pretty worn anyway, so it's fine. I use it when it doesn't matter.

@Cerberus sounds cosy.

Yup!

I should wear it to bars more, because people tend to stick their finger into the hole. It can be great for flirting with strangers.

I can cover it when I'm passing undesirables.

@Cerberus nice. :)

I'm such a chatkiller. ._.

2:33 AM

Naaaah.

Christ and I were both tired, and you kept it up for as long as was humanly possible.

It's past my bed time already.

4:34 am.

You?

user19161

@cornbreadninja Ninja!

user19161

Yo @mit!

Mitch

@JasperLoy dude

user19161

@Cerberus No flirting with strangers!

Then whom with?

3:04 AM

Bed time.

Bye!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:22 AM

balrogs for everyone!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇

Smeared today's #dailysketch and screwed it up besides.

Made this one to make up for it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

calligraphy?

4:06 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 sure

there's this site, www.typecooker.com

generates a recipe for a typeface

tried to follow it.

Mahnax

4:48 AM

Good evening.

user19161

9:24 AM

Hi guys. Sorry for bumping some of my posts today. I am trying to retag my own questions in the way I deem best. Please try not to retag it for me, thanks.

@JasperLoy um. They look so naked now. At least include the part of speech.

user19161

@RegDwightАΑA Hmm, let me think about it some more...

9:40 AM

blow his own trumpet

user19161

@MattЭллен You have a trumpet?

@JasperLoy figuratively I do

10:40 AM

> not even without a sound

well, what is that supposed to mean?

What is the rest supposed to mean? It's all pretty vague, and getting flagged as such.

true

I suppose I can assume that it means "even more quiet than silent"

OVER 9000 quiet. It goes to 9011.

:D

user19161

10:55 AM

Is nobody going to change their usernames back to normal characters only?

user19161

Are we going to live with these weird characters to the end of SE?

Why? What's nobody's current username?

user19161

I know that is a whoosh, so you can't trick me.

I have considered it, but I like my name this way.

Are you guys getting into trouble here?

Looks like you are all up to something on the front page.

10:58 AM

not so far :D

user19161

@KitFox Nothing. What's wrong with the front page? Nothing special.

that's between Reg and Jasper. I know nothing!

Q: The married man with an affinity

OK, well then upvote my answer here please:

9

I was reading a book about events in the 1920's US south; and came across the phrase in a quote from a KKK spokes person. I can't figure out what the phrase means, and haven't been able to find any other use of it to give hints from broader context. For clarity I've included the most complete c...

meaning

Because everyone else is nuts.

Including the 15 year old non-American with no idea about the KKK telling me that my answer doesn't make sense.

user19161

@MattЭллен Nothing is going on. I am just editing some of my own posts and he is editing other people's posts. Isn't that normal?

If you say so!

11:02 AM

Wow, that was quick. Thanks.

np :)

It's funny how you've got no cred until you get one upvote.

indeed. but that's how the game works.

user19161

I have a bad habit of deleting every post that is not overall positive number of votes.

user19161

So far that is so on all my accounts.

11:04 AM

Is that a bad habit?

user19161

Well, just strange then.

I have two negative voted answers, I think. I keep them because I still believe I am right.

user19161

I am now having another strange habit. I hope to retag all my own questions with just one tag if possible.

user19161

Let me explain myself.

user19161

Tags are for searching other than using word search.

user19161

11:07 AM

One may say tag with as many as possible, but that does not really help a person who really is looking for something very specific to the tag.

user19161

So I choose to go in the other extreme direction.

user19161

Of course, I understand that using too few tags has a negative effect as well.

Tag prudence.

user19161

So I just do this for my own and leave others to tag theirs as they wish.

user19161

There is no answer to such matters. There are 9000 styles of formatting alone.

11:09 AM

I'm missing a jQuery css file? This stuff is so confusing.

that is confusing

user19161

These are the issues we have to be aware of. It's sad if one person tries to edit the whole site in his style and another undoes it using another style.

Doesn't this code know that I have an important Writers chat that I haven't prepared for yet?

code cares not for such things, I should know

I've not written the third part of Harold and Maude's adventure yet

not even started

I haven't written the second part even. Plus, I need to come up with some prompts for our lightning writing assignments. Well, it will have to wait until I get to work.

11:17 AM

you could pick some random words from a dictionary

user19161

@KitFox You have a writing class?

@JasperLoy In writers chat we come up with assignments to do over the week. This week we're doing "lighting writing".

so it won't be done over the week, but actually in the chat

user19161

@MattЭллен You mean lightning.

11:44 AM

Is there any pie left?

Or did you bastards eat it all?

user19161

@Robusto I will give you pi.

user19161

After you eat the pi, you must rho the boat.

You only have a pi-dog.

Q: How to say 'give up dating with girls'

1

I give up dating with girls and stay in home.

phrase-requests

WTF, this still open?

@JasperLoy lol. yes I do.

12:05 PM

@RegDwightАΑA Worth keeping open for my comment alone.

How about "I totally rule in World of Warcraft"? ;=) — Robusto Mar 17 '11 at 13:41

Morning.

Allo

Wow, from the looks of chat, my commute took no time at all.

I went for lunch. The chattier chatters haven't appeared yet

@KitFox We had a lively discussion about winged balrogs, but deleted it before you showed up fearing retaliation.

12:08 PM

:D

@RegDwightАΑA Oh I see. I have a repuation as a killjoy now, do I?

killbalrog

Matt flew a balrog into work this morning. Not to be outdone, I have to do that too.

tries not to sulk for being taken seriously for once

@KitFox Yeah, you're the Gandalf of this chat.

12:10 PM

Hahaha

I just need to put a wizard hat on my fox here...maybe turn the fur grey...

@Robusto mine wasn't just winged, it was wingèd

@MattЭллен I won't pay extra for diacriticals.

@Matt needs to replace that orc head with an ambiguously-winged balrog.

my accents bring all the boys to the yard

@KitFox hmmmm...

Perhaps when I read the description of the balrog, I'll be inspirèd

MOAR BALROGS?

12:19 PM

More or less balrogs.

less balrog, more garbled

12:31 PM

Argh. Left my new carton of half and half at home!

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

eBay: Complete collection of Lego Star Wars (every single set from 1999 to July 2012), 260+ sets, 100.000+ pieces

user19161

So after I retagged my questions on another site, a well-intentioned user reretagged it for me, lol.

@RegDwightАΑA Plymouth Argyle Football Club have a lot of Lego. How odd. Maybe it's a charity thing.

JSBձոգչ

good morning