English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

00:27

@ΜετάEd Ohhhhhh. We thought (I think) that you were saying that people would look down on you equally whether you were married to a WASP or a jew/black/catholic. And that is definitely not true given all their bigoted views. If having an affair with a non-WASP...I have no conception if WASP or non-WASP would be considered worse.

@ΜετάEd impertinent in the sense that I'm blaming @KitFox...when she said "Well, it's not pertinent to the question, even if I think he's wrong.".

KitFox

Whoa. That's weird.

Mitch

Hi @KitFox. I'm roping you back in. Apologies in advance.

KitFox

It's OK. My apologies to @Μετά for the misunderstanding.

Any jQuery speakers in the house?

Rats.

Mitch

sorry. no.

KitFox

Well, that was dumb of me. But apparently, I also need to handle zeroes differently.

user19161

00:42

Zeroes are insignificant. They are only zeroes. QED.

KitFox

Except that they make my function return false.

Stupid zeroes.

Screw it. They will have to wait until tomorrow.

cornbread ninja

Hello from class!

KitFox

Hiya.

See, there's your problem right there, @Kit.

You forgot to return your variable.

tch amateurish.

cornbread ninja

d'oh!

KitFox

It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact that I've forgotten it so many times.

At least it didn't take me more than five minutes to figure it out this time.

cornbread ninja

00:57

The Variable Police will come after you, like that library cop after Seinfeld.

tchrist

@KitFox So what did it return instead, the last evaluated expression?

KitFox

Nope. It didn't know what the hell I wanted so it gave me NULL.

tchrist

Some languages have "interesting" ways of returning things, but if a language has a return statement in it, it’s probably best to use it.

In Pascal, you assigned to a variable by the same name as the function to set its return value.

But you didn't return.

Because they enforced the one-way-in, one-way-out nonsense.

KitFox

Well, this zero thing is just annoying.

Robusto

@Cerberus I never said it was a schwa. I said it was a syllable.

Cerberus

01:03

OK.

KitFox

OK ima bed. Night!

tchrist

Wait!

KitFox

What?

tchrist

May we have your permission to discuss Boldogs next?

KitFox

What's that now?

tchrist

01:07

:O)

cornbread ninja

0_0

tchrist

Ahah!

cornbread ninja

Balrogs?

tchrist

No.

Boldogs.

They are not the same.

Here is a quote . . .

KitFox

They don't have wings, for one.

tchrist

01:08

> Boldog, for instance, is a name that occurs many times in the tales of the War [of the Jewels]. But it is possible that Boldog was not a personal name, and either a title, or else the name of a kind of creature: the Orc-formed Maiar, only less formidable than the Balrogs.

Mitch

flat faces

KitFox

It makes no nevermind to me. You can waste your own bandwidth however you'd like.

tchrist

Time is the crucible in which we burn.

KitFox

Wow that's so deep.

tchrist

Maybe they were less formy because they had no wings.

Time, not bandwidth.

KitFox

01:10

Well, enjoy yourself/ves.

tchrist

> "The time of my thought is my own to spend," answered Dain.

It is easier to find Tolkien quotes applicable to the situation than Bible quotes.

2

cornbread ninja

Sleep tight, @KitFox

Don't let the balrogs bite.

@Mitch howdy

tchrist

I just can’t wait for Yoichi to ask us about "GOP Trying To Keep Elderly Voting Base Alive Until November".

Cerberus

I ain't no boldog.

I'm bold, and a dog, but not that.

tchrist

So, you have a stutter then, you're saying?

They can do something about that now, I hear.

Something about sitting for severe sessions in an elocution chair.

cornbread ninja

01:16

@Cerberus stutters in full stereo.

@tchrist heh. 'e's no spring chicken himself.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja Eep, I forgot. Better go for "Tampa Bay Gay Prostitutes Gearing Up For Flood Of Closeted Republicans" instead.

He'll ask us, just what does "gearing up" really mean here?

Is it a polite euphemism?

Or an impolite one?

It is important to understand politeness in his culture, so this will draw him in.

cornbread ninja

I got nuthin'.

I'm squishing PuTTY.

tchrist

It is a fickle beast.

It needs to be re-educated.

Cerberus

@tchrist An elocution chair? How does that work? Does it tingle, like an electrocution chair?

@cornbreadninja Really? How does that work?

@tchrist Whom are you talking about?

tchrist

@Cerberus The silly one.

@cornbreadninja I don’t think @Cerberus grew up with the silly little putty that makes stretchy little faces.

I probably could have put the period a bit earlier in that sentence than I did and still retain its truth value.

Cerberus

01:26

At least it's not sideways.

Robusto

@YoichiOishi-san: Akin was using the word legitimate when he actually meant genuine or authentic. — Robusto 19 secs ago

And that's the pith of the matter.

tchrist

@Robusto N/S

Robusto

@tchrist N/S? Speak English, man.

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus you have three heads, so, left channel, mid, and right channel. :D

Robusto

@cornbreadninja He also farts. That makes it surround sound.

cornbread ninja

01:28

@tchrist no sale?

tchrist

Add Sherlock.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes, but that doesn't explain why.

tchrist

Why what?

Robusto

Who cares why? He's an idiot, that's why.

cornbread ninja

brb learning

almost typed ctrl + bksp

Cerberus

01:29

@cornbreadninja Ah, yes. The wonders of three speakers.

tchrist

types control + backspace

Doesn’t do much for me.

Hm, wait.

That restarts your X11 server, right?

Spare Oom

Does Yoishi have a reputation for asking questions about statements that will draw fire?

Robusto

@SpareOom No. He's an 80-year-old Japanese man who reads a lot of English journalism and needs help some of the time.

tchrist

I thought he was in his 8th decade.

Cerberus

@tchrist Backspaces previous word for me.

tchrist

01:33

I don't have a backspace key.

Robusto

@tchrist He's around 80, OK? I don't know to the second when he was born, ferchrissakes.

tchrist

I seem to have two delete keys.

Cerberus

Huh?

tchrist

I thought he described himself as a septuagenarian.

Robusto

@tchrist He says he's 79. That's around 80.

tchrist

01:33

Or three.

And 80 is around 81, so by induction, he’s around dead.

I have two delete keys on the big keyboard and one delete key on the little keyboard.

Robusto

Funny, all those delete keys and you still ship more text than any ten people on this site.

tchrist

I can't find anything that says backspace.

That's because they have nothing to say.

And are wont to do so.

Robusto

Maybe they just don't like to bikeshed the way you do.

tchrist

Whatzapiddlypoop.

That's the wrong word.

I shan't be baited by the likes of you.

That's @Reg's job.

I think he thinks it part of his training for the janitorial olympics.

Cerberus

Why no backspace?

How can you live without one?

tchrist

01:37

I don't know.

What would it do?

Spare Oom

Never make a mistake?

tchrist

^H kiddo.

Cerberus

...

tchrist

^W for the word.

^U for the line.

^C for the program. Exeunt omnes.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist I meant because I had to bksp through what I'd entered.

Cerberus

01:38

You always have to hold down a key and press another key when you want to backspace?

Robusto

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus in the UNIXes

Robusto

Nice.

tchrist

I always get to keep my fingers on my homerow when I edit. I don't ever have to look at the keyboard like a little child.

Cerberus

@cornbreadninja That sounds a bit annoying.

Robusto

01:39

Unix have no balls.

tchrist

Read ’em and weep.

Cerberus

A tiny keyboard?

And one without markings?

tchrist

What do I need markings for? I know where the keys are.

But no, mine has markings.

It's the upper one.

Robusto

Wow, really? You know how to type? That is so ... amazing.

tchrist

Notice it isn't set up like an idiotfuck.

Robusto

01:41

I didn't know anybody was able to type without looking. Man, you could make big bucks as a typist.

tchrist

The ESC is to the right of the 1, where it belongs.

Cerberus

Why no F keys, and no numpad?

tchrist

The CAPS LOCK key has been left at the factory, where it belongs.

What in the world would I do with those?

The CONTROL keys is above the SHIFT, where it belongs.

No pansy keys.

Leaves room for my coffee cup.

Robusto

Boring. I'm out. Have fun with your keyboards, guys.

Spare Oom

@tchrist In case you want to yell at someone or get their attention?

Cerberus

01:42

I don't use the F keys much, admittedly, but the numpad is quite handy.

Easier to type without looking.

@Robusto Bye! We apologise for the boredom.

tchrist

So your paws can do the chacha?

Perhaps.

Cerberus

When I need to type long numbers, for example.

tchrist

I will take your word for it.

I never studied accountancy.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus They used to teach typing class is in Junior High (from 7th grade).

Cerberus

My fingers know where the numbers are.

@SpareOom Really? We never had such classes.

tchrist

01:44

If God had meant for Man to have F-keys, he would have put them on the IBM Selectric.

Cerberus

My fingers don't know where the numbers in the normal area are.

Spare Oom

It was an elective class. Not everyone took it, but why wouldn't everyone want to touch type?

tchrist

I sympathize.

I don't usually type numbers.

I find them troubling.

They have no name.

Makes them hard to remember.

Overused, they are redolent of a code-smell.

Cerberus

Like a credit-card number, or phone numbers, or other numbers.

But they do have colours.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Yeah, I have problems with those too. I did data entry for a few years, and got better, but if you don't use them much you get rusty.

tchrist

01:45

My fingers aren't too bad with the top row ones.

But I agree they are less than perfect.

Cerberus

@SpareOom Yes, well, the numpad is fine.

And it has its numbers close to its enter key.

tchrist

3.1415926536.

Spare Oom

Yes, but I don't have one. I don't remember if the office computer had one or not.

tchrist

That one I didn't look to type.

Cerberus

So you can quickly use a calculator program.

tchrist

01:47

So I guess I can do it.

Cerberus

It's hunt and peck for me.

tchrist

I never had an adding machine as a kid.

Really!!??? I never took you for such a thing!

Cerberus

@SpareOom Then buy a second-hand keyboard for € 3 that has a numpad.

tchrist

To think, @Cerberus is a hunter and a pecker.

Cerberus

Only for keys that I don't use regularly.

tchrist

01:48

Do you have nibs where they belong?

Cerberus

Or I wouldn't be able to talk to you as fast as I do, would I?

tchrist

Well I dunno.

Cerberus

I think I do.

tchrist

I will have you know that I can type a fuckwad of a lot faster then this damn thing lets me enter text. It is really annoying that I am not allowed to use carriage returns.

Cerberus

I'm no champion, but I can type fast enough.

Spare Oom

01:48

Oh, I think I have a number pad attachment for my laptop. I just never really need it at home.

Cerberus

Of course. I get the slow-down stupidity a lot too.

Spare Oom

And I have only 2 USB ports, one of which I have what do you call it.. an adapter for 4 more

Cerberus

@SpareOom One never really needs it, but it is just convenient.

@SpareOom A hub.

Spare Oom

Thx.

tchrist

And then Rob bitches me out for using such long sentences. It isn't my fault. I was born this way. The system made me do it. If I had my druthers, I would type no sentence over 5 words. Well, maybe no clause. Or, perhaps not. But see? Those are all short! It denies me! And unjustly, too.

Cerberus

01:51

I think your first sentence fragment belies your assertion that you need no more than five words.

Spare Oom

@tchrist Did you perform your calculations in you head?

tchrist

@Cerberus My first sentence fragment holds four words.

@SpareOom Which?

Cerberus

I could eleven words.

tchrist

No you couldn't.

Spare Oom

If you didn't have an adding machine.

Cerberus

01:52

Ah, but I can.

And I have.

tchrist

An adding machine is a papertape silliness.

Spare Oom

Dad had a soroban and taught us kids to use that too, just for fun.

tchrist

> And then Rob bitches me out for using such long sentences. It isn't my fault. I was born this way. The system made me do it. If I had my druthers, I would type no sentence over 5 words. Well, maybe no clause. Or, perhaps not. But see? Those are all short! It denies me! And unjustly, too.

Spare Oom

I only learned to add and subtract with it.

tchrist

Uno.

Dos.

Tres.

Quatro, and done.

Cerberus

01:53

> And then Rob bitches me out for using such long sentences.

tchrist

That's no fragment, silly.

It has a subject and a predicate.

Cerberus

It smells like a fragment to me.

@tchrist Even so.

tchrist

Too much brimstone for you, puppy.

I went to the store.

And I didn't even have a car.

So I rode my bike.

I came to a stop sign.

I gave up.

I turned around and went home.

And then I was done.

Cerberus

I would technically consider any sentence starting with and a fragment, though I understand that not everyone sees it my way.

tchrist

Don’t be ridiculous.

Cerberus

01:55

It is irrelevant anyway.

Spare Oom

That's what they taught for formal writing, isn't it?

Cerberus

My point stands if you remove "fragment".

Spare Oom

But nobody talks that way.

tchrist

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.

Cerberus

It doesn't have anything to do with formality: it's just analysis.

tchrist

01:56

And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, ...

Cerberus

What are you trying to prove?

tchrist

And there was much rejoicing.

Spare Oom

Ok, ok. Point taken.

Cerberus

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with starting a sentence with and.

Spare Oom

Formal sentences in 1610 could start with and.

Cerberus

01:57

Just that I don't consider it a full sentence if I am in a strict, technical mood.

tchrist

"And then" does not require some other element to conjunct.

It doesn't work that way. It means something else.

@SpareOom Yup.

Cerberus

Then there is more to point into the direction of fragmentation in your sentence: "then".

tchrist

It meant "then".

Then?

Cerberus

@tchrist What are you trying to say?

tchrist

Then what?

What do you think is "wrong" with starting a sentence with "then"?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…