English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

7:00 PM

I fluster at immovable objects.

@tchrist The hypocrisy is annoying: on the one hand they assert that using the word "tense" is a prescriptive way of forcing Latin analysis on English; on the other, they wish to prescriptively force their own word upon most people, who happen to use "tense" in this way.

tchrist

To him, a compound tense is an oxymoron. But everybody speaks of compound tenses!

Cerberus

He cannot see beyond the terminology that he learned and/or developed: I can see his arguments, but there are other terminologies that work just fine, and he can't say they are "wrong", which is what he is doing. He should just accept them as alternative systems.

But I think you should both tone it down with the "lying".

That doesn't help.

RegDwight АΑA

Yo @tchrist I think you have a number missing in your answer.

tchrist

The passé composé used for j’ai aimé is a tense. The pretérito perfecto compuesto used for he amado is a tense. And they are past tenses.

@RegDwightАΑA Twelve?

RegDwight АΑA

7:04 PM

> Note that this does not include U+, the MINUS SIGN [...]

tchrist

He was the one who said he wouldn’t lie to people the way I was doing.

You’re right.

RegDwight АΑA

And hello.

Cerberus

@tchrist He uses a different definition of "tense".

Wii?

RegDwight АΑA

I'm only in for a gin, only here for a beer, as the Closing Ceremony is about to begin. You TV haters.

Cerberus

He can't see beyond his own definition and his own system even when pressed: that is the problem. I do appreciate the arguments for his system, though. But also the arguments for the other system.

@RegDwightАΑA The who?

RegDwight АΑA

7:07 PM

The you and the christ.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA It will please you that I was forced to watch the second half of the women's field-hockey finals two days ago.

cornbread ninja

@RegDwightАΑA Count me in.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I meant those odd C words.

BRB

RegDwight АΑA

Some fifteen years ago I'd be helping out with the noble TV-not-watching task. Then again, I'd also have no Internet, so I'd be helping out in my own four walls rather than in this room here.

Mar 2 '11 at 13:33, by RegDwight

Though I must say, I used to not own a TV set for like three years in a row, back in 1998 or something. And I didn't miss it at all after a while. And it's only after I got married that I got a PC + some Internets at home.

tchrist

@Cerberus I know. That’s the problem. He says only ai has tense, not aimé, and certainly not ai aimé. He means something very different.

@RegDwightАΑA It’s fixed, but perhaps not well, but I am in a hurry and blood-sugar–deprived.

God those compounds look ugly: blood-sugar–deprived.

RegDwight АΑA

7:10 PM

Happens to the best of us. Also, to the worst.

tchrist

What do regular people use for the thing he calls tense?

RegDwight АΑA

Add some flowers to achieve better looks. A chocolate fountain. Mozart.

tchrist

It has to do with inflexional morphology.

RegDwight АΑA

Who now?

tchrist

John Lawler, Barrie.

RegDwight АΑA

7:11 PM

Who dare touch my inflexionae's?

tchrist

Yes, that.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist Those people of all things!

Of all people, I mean.

But that sounds ugly.

tchrist

It’s a Huffman failure, you know.

Use the short thing for the thing mentioned most frequently.

RegDwight АΑA

Better than a Huffington failure.

tchrist

Use the long thing for the thing mentioned least frequently.

cornbread ninja

7:13 PM

@RegDwightАΑA 'those people, of all'?

tchrist

He uses tense when he means a single-word morphological inflection of a finite verb.

Which is why in I had spoken, only had has tense for him. Me, I call that pluperfect and be done with it.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist short things got no reason to live. They got little hands, little eyes; they walk around tellin' great big lies. They got little noses and tiny little teeth, they wear platform shoes on their nasty little feet.

tchrist

goes off to find his platform shoes

cornbread ninja

bah.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist you can have mine.

Jul 23 at 14:14, by RegDwight АΑA

While we're at it, I can share other useful things.

Dec 19 '11 at 13:54, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dec 21 '11 at 19:50, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dec 22 '11 at 21:20, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Handle with care.

Looks like I have killed the chat. And I didn't need a single baby picture for that. A new record.

tchrist

7:29 PM

-1

Q: Where did 'yuck' and 'yuk' come from?

I've just realised that yuck and yuk are exclamations of distase and that the first one is preferable because the spelling 'yuck' helps to distinguish the word from slang use of 'yuk' (yuk yuk). Basically, my question is: where did these words come from? BONUS QUESTION: Can these words be used i...

Is it not GR just because he found a dictionary that doesn’t have something basic like etymology in it?

simchona

Haha

tchrist

His toy dict has no etyma. So does he get a bye?

simchona

@reg I'm thinking the other shoe may drop soon

KitFox

hiyo

tchrist

@sim Oh, did something just thaw out?

Hi Kit are you feeling any better I hope?

KitFox

7:32 PM

huh wha? yeah good

i thot this zmeds was nondrowzz

but snot

tchrist

Just as well. Who wants to be around while that's happening?

KitFox

whats happening?

tchrist

Reg is scaring us.

KitFox

scaring you?

Notty owl.

tchrist

what is this, mod mash?

Did you see those pix?

waiwai933

7:35 PM

@tchrist Apparently.

tchrist

Very scary.

KitFox

hai waiwai

RegDwight АΑA

I see @Kit is sporting a different model of a rocket launcher every day.

KitFox

it a bazooka

RegDwight АΑA

QED

KitFox

7:36 PM

same one as yestereday

RegDwight АΑA

Lies.

KitFox

nope! smee!

RegDwight АΑA

The gravatar is different.

KitFox

same bazooka as yesterday

same me as yesterday

tchrist

It’s not a rocket-launcher. It’s an 800mm lens.

KitFox

7:36 PM

different pose tho

tchrist

Still gets you shot at, though.

RegDwight АΑA

Okay okay. I was just making compliments. You no need, I no give.

KitFox

i'da been 24 mebbe in those pix

tchrist

My pixels are too small to see such things.

RegDwight АΑA

Start using voxels.

tchrist

7:37 PM

I just see a horizontal line with some dangly sputum hanging off of it.

KitFox

now thet i'z a mod i shud be able to blow things up

Cerberus

@tchrist I would not say aimé has a tense.

KitFox

bwahahahaha

RegDwight АΑA

@KitFox looks like you're Falling Down.

Cerberus

I would say it has to be a finite verb, but it can be a compound verb.

KitFox

7:38 PM

u no me 2 well

Cerberus

That is how tense is used in most languages I know.

Hello, Foxy.

KitFox

hi

boom

giggle

RegDwight АΑA

Jeez. All this violence.

Dec 19 '11 at 13:55, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

tchrist

@KitFox You blew me up!

Jeezis is blue tue.

KitFox

sorree

I have some some place with a Russian army rifle.

Also with a revolver

Matt Эллен

7:40 PM

Kit is high ordnance, not high maintenance

KitFox

heeheehee

RegDwight АΑA

How high?

Dec 19 '11 at 14:44, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

KitFox

chortrimeton high

tchrist

@Cerberus I don't think people separate mood out much any more. They think of the present subjunctive as a different tense from the past subjunctive, say, or the conditional as a different "tense" from the indicative.

KitFox

I like the ones with the rifle the best, but they show my face too much.

Cerberus

7:41 PM

(Where I said synthetic, I mean analytic.)

KitFox

Besides "Bazooka Girl" evokes a better image than "Rifle Girl."

hmm. except maybe "Crazy Rifle Girl"...

tchrist

@sim Do you think there will be fireworks later on?

RegDwight АΑA

Im outta here. The Closing Ceremony is almost on.

Nov 17 '11 at 20:15, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Cerberus

@tchrist Perhaps...but in any case analytic tenses are a widely used concept, which Lawler will not even deign to comment on.

tchrist

Got him!

Cerberus

7:43 PM

Now I have to go for a bit...later all!

tchrist

Bye bye bye.

Cerberus

woof woof woof

tchrist

tosses a woofleball

It use to be a wiffleball.

Jez

8:08 PM

sigh.

how depressing.

tchrist

Who, Onan?

Jez

no... a meetup ruined by live music

was too loud. i had to leave. :-(

tchrist

That's too bad.

Jez

i never went through that phase during teenage years of killing off half my ears' hair cells

so, what is OK volume for most is unbearable for me. just short of physically painful, but very unpleasant. no way i can enjoy the music.

tchrist

No of course not, why would you do such a stupid and unpleasant thing?

Jez

8:15 PM

given the volume of live music, and the fact that people in general are OK with it, i assume most people would

tchrist

Don’t sit too close to the cannons for Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.

Jez

why, might get your head blown off?

tchrist

Eardrums.

I don’t understand music so loud it is impossible to talk.

It is unnatural.

Jez

well some people go just to listen i guess

and they were saying the liked the live music

so i just left

wouldnt want to make them feel they had to move away for my sake

tchrist

I taste my food better with a dash or two of tabasco sauce than with a pint of it.

user19161

9:13 PM

@tchrist I can understand the music but not the people who listen to it or play it.

tchrist

0

Q: Difference between "to flounce", "to caper", and "to gambol"

In a sentence describing some children having some fun in a playroom: They would flounce, caper, and gambol all the time. What are the differences between those three actions?

meaning meaning-in-context

GenRef

user19161

@tchrist I don't really know any of the three words myself.

tchrist

That doesn’t mean they aren’t in the dictionary.

user19161

@tchrist Yes, I was just talking about my ignorance, not saying that it is not GR.

tchrist

gambol: To leap or spring, in dancing or sporting; now chiefly of animals or children.

caper: intr. To dance or leap in a frolicsome manner, to skip for merriment; to prance as a horse. Also with about, away

There’s also "cut capers", often "in the street".

flounce: intr. To make abrupt and jerky movements with the limbs or body; to throw the body about; to plunge, flounder, struggle. Also with about, up. Usually said of bulls, horses, or aquatic animals. to flounce it, said of a woman dancing.

cornbread ninja

9:18 PM

@tchrist mmm, capers.

user19161

I have always been amazed by my own misuscule vocabulary. I guess I don't really read books.

tchrist

3

A: To cut capers in the street

You’re probably looking for sense b below. Another nuance of caper would be as some sort of crime exploit / adventure / escapade. caper, n.² Pronunciation: /ˈkeɪpə(r)/ Etymology: apparently abbreviated < capriole n.: Florio has Italian ‘capriola a capriole or caper in dancing...

cornbread ninja

behance.net/gallery/helvetica-my-hero/3578945

I wish that person could spell.

tchrist

yep

cornbread ninja

You can't have it all.

tchrist

9:27 PM

@tchrist - My dictionary gives me bunch of translations for each one of those words and many of them overlap, so I still don't know the essential difference between those words. Plus, my dictionary gives me ALL possible meanings of those words, while in the context of the sentence that I brought up in my question only some of those meanings, I guess, should be considered, however, my dictionary doesn't tell me which meanings in my case I should consider and which ones I should drop. — brilliant 3 mins ago

That won’t work.

He has a bilingual dictionary!

Alas.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist I now have Poison Ivy in my head.

tchrist

Don’t scratch.

cornbread ninja

haaa.

tchrist

0

Q: "He had snaggle teeth"? - How to say correctly?

Is it okay to say "He had snaggle teeth"? Or there is a better way of describing that problem with teeth?

phrase-requests

More people without dictionaries.

Cerberus

Hello.

Mitch

9:37 PM

@tchrist I agree but googling for it doesn't really explain right off

Cerberus

I wish to add that I, too, hate loud music more than anything. But I am socially forced to suffer it.

My brother hates it too.

There are many youngsters who do.

We sort of hate dancing too.

At least the kind that is expected there.

tchrist

I am just such a snagglepuss today!

@Mitch As it is written in the Holy Æther: “I am the Lord thy Google: I am the way, the truth, and the light. No man cometh unto any citable knowledge save through me. Look upon me ye papers and despair! I am become Google, Destroyer of Words!”

Told you I was a snagglepuss.

Cerberus

What does a snagglepuss do?

This?

tchrist

9:53 PM

Snagglepuss

Snagglepuss is a Hanna-Barbera cartoon character created in 1959, a pink anthropomorphic mountain lion voiced by Daws Butler. Summary Snagglepuss first appeared in several episodes of The Quick Draw McGraw Show and became a regular segment on The Yogi Bear Show, starring in a total of 32 episodes. (See the list of episodes.) He also appeared in other Hanna-Barbera series such as Yogi's Gang in 1973, as a co-host for Laff-A-Lympics in 1977 and 1978, Yogi's Treasure Hunt in 1985 and as a teenager on Yo Yogi! in 1991. Snagglepuss lives in a cavern, which he constantly tries to make more ...

He’s very over-the-top.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Cerberus

I looked him up.

I have seen him before.

tchrist

He used to hawk cereal.

Cerberus

Ah.

tchrist

10:11 PM

There was a crooked man, and he walked a crooked mile.
He found a crooked sixpence against a crooked stile.
He bought a crooked cat, which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all lived together in a little crooked house.

See, there are snagglepussies even in the classics of literature!

Cerberus

Right.

(≠ crooked.)

tchrist

I bet his crooked cat had a crooked smile.

Cerberus

straight faces

tchrist

And people think I’m too uptight about titles:

-2

Q: correct or incorrect usage of hyphenation and please give the basis for the answers; i.e., the authority? Hopefully, a respected one!

the following sentence: It was well thought-out I understand "thought-out" probably should not be hyphenated, but it is undoubtedly an incorrect usage? Or could it be deemed correct? A lot rests on this seemingly unimportant issue! The real question is: Is that a flat-out wrong usage of a hy...

hyphenation

Cerberus

10:30 PM

Heh.

It is certainly much better than "which" or "grammar" or "question".

brilliant

@tchrist more people without thinking twice before saying "more people without dictionaries"

@tchrist "He has a bilingual dictionary!"

- Now you don't need to talk to me in the third person

"gambol: To leap or spring, in dancing or sporting; now chiefly of animals or children.
caper: intr. To dance or leap in a frolicsome manner, to skip for merriment; to prance as a horse. Also with about, away
There’s also "cut capers", often "in the street".
flounce: intr. To make abrupt and jerky movements with the limbs or body; to throw the body about; to plunge, flounder, struggle. Also with about, up. Usually said of bulls, horses, or aquatic animals. to flounce it, said of a woman dancing"

- This still doesn't make me aware about the difference between

"gambol" and "caper".

The only thing I can think of is that "caper" has an element of happiness implied

however, I am still not sure.

So, as you can see, having merely dictionary definitions doesn't answer it all

This has been a situation that I have run into so many times!

Perhaps, It's hard for a native speaker to understand this.

But it's a very common problem that I and many friends of mine studying English have had .

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…