English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:00 PM

@MattЭллен well, I on the other hand don't care at all when she discusses, talks to, or hangs out with her exes

Matt Эллен

heh

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But that's not the point. I just found it humorous when I came to the realization that they were all dutch.

And actually they were "of Dutch origin", having been born in Canada and all that.

Cerberus

Oh...

That's not Dutch.

Matt Эллен

Enjoy the 4th of July, Americans. While you can. You'll come crawling back to us eventually.

5

Toodles!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm sure I would have noticed if they all talked funny.

Cerberus

4:04 PM

Well, then.

MetaEd

Mijn fladderboot zit vol met paling.

Cerberus

Your what?

MetaEd

Fladderboot. I'm making shit up.

Does there exist an online etymology tree?

I'm familiar with etymonline.com of course, but I mean a resource organized and reported more like a genealogy.

Cladograms of words, that sort of thing.

Vitaly

@Gigili adjunct or supplement, more likely adjunct just because the degree of importance was mentioned. Why?

Cerberus

@MetaEd utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ielex/PokornyMaster-X.html

It is not perfect.

But it's your uni.

MetaEd

4:20 PM

It's a good start. I can follow a word back to PIE and then follow it forward.

Sort of.

Thank you for the link.

Cerberus

Yeah.

It is also not 100 % reliable.

Found some errors.

Neil Fein

4:41 PM

0

Q: Tools or communities for word association?

Are there any tools or online communities that deal with word association? I'm looking for a resource where I could poll for common associations for a particular word. If you do know of such a tool or community, please describe its positives and negatives.

Anyone know where this user could find a resource like this?

MetaEd

I haven't run into one.

Neil Fein

Nor I.

Vitaly

Edinburgh Associative Thesaurus?

except that it's a database

MetaEd

nice!

but it's a database generated by polling people.

seems like they did what the person needed.

Vitaly

not a very comprehensive database, too…

MetaEd

4:50 PM

It has profanity in it. That's good enough for me.

Vitaly

I have it converted to DSL (a format my favourite dictionary lookup program recognizes) and it has 23,218 headwords

but lacks fragrant

Cerberus

As long as it contains flagrant...

MetaEd

Or any labiodental fricatives, for that matter.

Cerberus

Fffff........

Vitaly

should I have said, "not a very comprehensive database either"?

Cerberus

5:02 PM

I noticed.

But I remained silent for fear of being seen as a nit-picking prescriptivist.

4

MetaEd

I figured there was an end of sentence lurking there in the ellipsis.

Cerberus

"I, too, think it is not..."?

Vitaly

I must have picked up that use of too ('also', 'in addition') in negative statements somewhere, but I have no idea where

@Cerberus so, descriptively, is it possible for a native speaker of one of the major English dialects to use too like that?

Cerberus

@Vitaly Yes, I believe I have seen it.

The longer the sentence, the more chance.

People are often sloppy with the scope of negations in longer sentences.

They sort of forget that the negation was at the high level (modifying the clause you want to echo), because it was so long ago.

Just as it is possible to echo the wrong auxiliary verb.

Which is probably rarer.

Matt Эллен

5:21 PM

Spare Oom

6:20 PM

►

I'm confused. Is this Russian usage or English language and usage here?

(Or both, more probably.)

Gigili

6:49 PM

What does "payment slip" mean in this context: "To finalize the order, please make the payment during the next 30 days using the printed Banco Santander payment slip at your local bank or cash outlet."?

Matt Эллен

it's a bit of paper where you write (I'm guessing) your account details and then hand it to your bank, where they take the money from your account. Is the note on a credit card statement?

RegDwight ΒВB

The MultiCollider is so broken.

@Matt's question has 12 upticks and three answers. Is it on the MC? No. You know what is on the MC? Two SWRs.

And they aren't even particularly highly voted.

But now they will be! :P

Gigili

@MattЭллен Yes, it is.

Matt Эллен

7:11 PM

@Gigili I see, so it's just how the credit card issuer lets you pay them back.

@RegDwightΒВB popularity over quality! Not that I'm tooting my own trumpet

Gigili

@MattЭллен Thank you.

Matt Эллен

like that? @Gigili

Gigili

@MattЭллен Exactly.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Do people still use those?

@Gigili Hello.

Have you heard about the Nexus?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I've not for some time. I pay my bills online

Cerberus

7:26 PM

It is now forbidden in America.

@MattЭллен OK same here.

Matt Эллен

Forbidden?

Gigili

@Cerberus I am using it right at the moment.

@Cerberus Hi, what about it?

Cerberus

@Gigili Waaah you have it!

Matt Эллен

why is the nexus forbidden in America?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен @Gigili Apple filed a lawsuit forbidding the Nexus from being imported into the USA and won.

Matt Эллен

7:27 PM

:O

stupid lawyers

Cerberus

Some excessively silly patent, as in "use a search bar to search both the internet and the contents on the pone". I am not making this up.

Three similarly ridiculous patents.

@Gigili So did you buy it in Canada? I didn't know you had already been there!

How is the Nexus?

Did you meet Mahnax?

Gigili

@Cerberus Oh, I forgot to tell you. I bought an iPhone.

flees

Cerberus

What!?!!!

How dare you!

Infidel!

Why on earth?

Gigili

grinning vacuously

I liked it better.

Cerberus

I don't believe it.

I know you didn't want a tiny screen.

Gigili

7:30 PM

Umm, I'm sorry!

@Cerberus No, he was busy!

Cerberus

That was what was most important to you.

MetaEd

I think "infidel" applies more properly to someone who leaves the Church of Apple, not the other way around.

Gigili

Well, the first time I couldn't get to his town on time and the second time he was busy.

Cerberus

@MetaEd Don't forget the Calvinist Church or Android!

Gigili

@Cerberus The screen is not tiny. It's more like a phone that of Galaxy Note and Nexus.

Cerberus

7:31 PM

Oh, well.

@Gigili It is tiny.

Gigili

It is not.

Cerberus

Even the next Iphone that will come out in a few months will probably have a somewhat larger screen.

Well, it was interesting to know you.

MetaEd

If Android is Calvinist, then Gigili can't help not buying one: it was predestined.

So leave him alone.

Cerberus

Too bad I can never speak with you again or be seen a talking to heretics.

@MetaEd Her.

Gigili

@Cerberus As if I care?

Cerberus

7:33 PM

Lalala.

MetaEd

@Cerberus Leave him her.

Cerberus

So I will.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd If they leave the Church of Apple and forsake the Leader Jobs (may he be fruity forever), wouldn't they be apostates, as opposed to infidels?

Gigili

@Cerberus So narrow-minded of you!

@MetaEd You're soooo, umm, funneh.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 He's such a bit fruit. And, yes, apostates even.

MetaEd

7:35 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Both, I suppose. Unfaithful by reason of apostasy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd Or apostate by reason of infidelity?

I wish I had an iPhone right now.

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Atheist, even. Out of touch with Steve.

I'd settle for anything with a touch screen.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd Asteveist

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Excuse me?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd I have 4 of those, on my desk right now. But they're all androids

@Cerberus my androids are spoiling to beat up on someone

Cerberus

7:37 PM

Give me one!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Can't. Two are mine and I carry them with me like teddy bears. The other two are for work

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh haha, OK then.

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Android's fine with me. I'm not religious.

Cerberus

Why two for home and two for work?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus my home phone and tablet, and two work phones (different models/OS versions)

MetaEd

7:39 PM

@Gigili The word you are looking for is clueless, or arrogant.

I answer to both.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 So one is a tablet, not a phone?

MetaEd

Maybe more patronistic than actually arrogant.

Cerberus

And why do you need different OSes: to test software on?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yes, but still an android with a touch-screen

@Cerberus exactly

Cerberus

All right.

A Galaxy Note would be interesting.

5.3ish inch, just between a phone and a tablet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:40 PM

@Cerberus it's too big in my opinion. Or too small.

Cerberus

Still small enough to fit into your pocket.

Gigili

@Cerberus No! It's not a cell phone. It's a tablet.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Too big for what?

Gigili

It won't fit in your pocket, silly.

Cerberus

My main objection would be that it would be impossible to type with one hand.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:41 PM

@Cerberus too big to carry comfortably as a phone, and too small to act as a tablet

Cerberus

Why uncomfortable?

As long as it fits into your pocket...?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I can fit far more into my pockets than I'd consider "comfortable"

Cerberus

I don't know, Note owners say it's comfortable enough.

Have you tried it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yes

Cerberus

What did you find uncomfortable about it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:43 PM

my own phone, the Nexus S, is really pushing the size that I find acceptable.

@Cerberus the size

RegDwight ΒВB

What kind of porn room is this.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it's just too big to fit properly in my pocket

Cerberus

Can you be more specific?

RegDwight ΒВB

Hey.

Cerberus

What happens when you put it in your pocket?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:44 PM

@Cerberus specifically, it's too big

Cerberus

But the consequences of this bigness.

RegDwight ΒВB

Hulloh! I am twelve and what is this!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it doesn't fit comfortably, and I become uncomfortable by the unwieldy object I just put in my pocket

Cerberus

@RegDwightΒВB We're long past the point of shame.

RegDwight ΒВB

This room needs a mod.

Cerberus

7:45 PM

@RegDwightΒВB Go find one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightΒВB we ban people who are 12

Cerberus

Or scare them off.

RegDwight ΒВB

Inches or millimeters?

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Can you be more specific?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus not really?

Cerberus

7:46 PM

Does it stretch your pocket so much that you can't move properly any more?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I put it in my pocket and didn't like it. I found it uncomfortable.

@Cerberus define "move properly"

Cerberus

I don't know, walk? Cycle?

I guess it also depends on the kind of pockets you have.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I could probably still function at those, but maybe not comfortably.

Cerberus

I imagine cargo pants have larger pockets.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus uh, yeah

I wear jeans.

Levis 501

I bought my first pair in the 90s

Cerberus

7:47 PM

Perhaps the people who find it comfortable enough wear wider trousers and/or larger pockets.

Okay, so regular jeans.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And since I hate trying on pants in stores, I just buy the same size every time an old pair wears out.

Cerberus

Why not buy several at once when they are on sale?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yes, I do that too

Cerberus

I remember when I got this phone.

It felt very big.

But I was used to it after a few days.

I guess it would take a few days to be really sure about the size.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yes, I was the same with the Nexus S. But I didn't pick up the Nexus S and immediately think "This is too damn big", like I did with the Note

Cerberus

7:50 PM

Well, the typing is a no-no for me anyway.

I do like a big screen.

MetaEd

@Cerberus Why

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Just get a bluetooth keyboard and put it in your other pocket

Cerberus

It is very hard to type with one hand on a big screen.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Then you need another pocket.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus try typing on the Asus Transformer when it's in landscape mode

Cerberus

With one hand?

I'd rather not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:51 PM

@Cerberus it's hard even with two

MetaEd

Isn't there a one-finger stroke alphabet on some devices? Palm used to have one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd Graffiti! I loved that thing

Cerberus

There is swipe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can buy a graffiti app for android

Cerberus

But you still won't be able to reach around the screen.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:52 PM

There are lots of input methods for android

@Cerberus well, graffiti is the "hold the phone in one hand and write with a pen/stylus with the other hand" approach

Cerberus

So if you get a notification at the top of the screen, you can't reach it with your thumb.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'm still focused on my problem, I don't know about this.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's not a "one-hand-controls the phone, the other hand drives the car" solution

Cerberus

A Note would also be a way to get attention and flirt.

"Oh my, what is THAT? It's huge!"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Nothing says "SEXY" like "I have big pockets"

RegDwight ΒВB

I like big pockets and I cannot lie.

Cerberus

7:55 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't drive. But I still need/want to use my phone with one hand in many situations, such as when I'm carrying something.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 ...

MetaEd

What one wants is a one-finger stroke alphabet: should be able to key with one thumb using strokes.

Cerberus

That's the one thing I don't like about my current phone's slide-out landscape keyboard: I can't use it with one hand.

Otherwise it is great.

@MetaEd I might be possible, if you project it on just part of the screen, the part closest to your thumb. But still, there is the rest of the screen.

And other things you need to do on your phone.

I am practising now, holding a CD case.

It sucks.

I can't touch the screen at all unless I just let the case rest on my hand rather than holding it.

Not safe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd There are one-stroke input methods that you could operate with one thumb if you can hold the phone in one hand

eg Swype

Cerberus

MetaEd

@Cerberus Implants are the only real solution.

Cerberus

8:02 PM

Seems to take up the entire width of the screen.

@MetaEd yay!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it does

but it's really really easy to use

you trace out a word

you don't even need to spell it right

Cerberus

So how can you reach the left keys on a Note?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

it's very good at predicting from the shape what you spelled

@Cerberus what? oh, no, the Note is too big. Nothing is comfortable about it

Cerberus

Does it work well in other languages?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't know, I only tried English

Cerberus

8:03 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That's what I'm saying.

Could have tried Dutch for me!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But one thing I've noticed is that there are lots of really interesting input methods available. I've installed a few; most seem like they're not worth the effort for me to learn, but I can imagine some people finding them useful.

Gigili

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That look like Note, and it's really difficult to type a text on it.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It may also be a matter of getting used to...Swype looks a bit counter-intuitive to me, but I will surely get used to it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, the built-in android keyboard is nice. I like it much better than the Samsung keyboard or the Asus keyboard.

Cerberus

Uhuh.

Bloatware.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:06 PM

@Cerberus Well, for me, it was like two seconds to get used to it. I only stopped using swype because I didn't like how it's installed on my device and how it's always in beta and how it kept crashing. I liked it, but not enough to put up with the installation hassles.

Cerberus

Does Apple have anything that works as well as Swype?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus dunno

Cerberus

I bet not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The Asus keyboard has swype-like functionality but I don't do much text entry on it

Cerberus

It's not just the function itself: it also needs to be executed very well, I imagine, for it to work fluidly.

So why did it crash on your phone?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:10 PM

@Cerberus dunno, didn't care enough to find out. I imagine that if you have vendor-supplied swype you'll be happier with it than I was with my add-on swype

MetaEd

My primitive phone gets crashed by apps all the time. Surely a phone OS can be designed to isolate apps the way a PC OS can. That is probably the first thing I would look for: does the device and OS isolate apps using some kind of hardware enforced protection.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 What does that mean?

MetaEd

I switched to Google Chrome the day it was released because of its design using multiple processes to isolate tabs from one another.

Want the same on the phone.

Cerberus

Yes.

Doesn't modern Android do that?

I don't hear people complain about crashing phones a lot.

It crashes a lot less than IOS, I read.

MetaEd

0

Q: Capital letter after ellipsis

I was talking to a friend of mine over Skype, and I typed this: Ok... Now I want more pork pie. I'd like to know, should there be a capital letter after the ellipsis …? Should it be as I typed it: Ok... Now I want more pork pie. Or should it be a lowercase N: Ok... now I want more...

punctuation capitalization ellipsis

We have the blind leading the blind.

@Cerberus That's what I would like to know.

@Cerberus You don't know anyone with a Samsung Rant. They named it after their customers.

Cerberus

8:14 PM

Haha what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Most people who have Swype get it from the phone vendor, who have selected a custom version that they have extensively QA'ed to work on their device and with the supported revision of Android that they are shipping. As opposed to the swype app that you can just download from the swype developers for any phone that doesn't already have swype.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 What is a vendor? Do you mean Samsung?

I plan on getting a Galaxy Nexus, which doesn't have any bloatware.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc

Cerberus

OK.

MetaEd

@Cerberus amazon.com/Boost-Mobile-Samsung-Rant/dp/B003Z4JD6U

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:16 PM

@Cerberus In that case your vendor is "Google/Samsung"

MetaEd

They left out "and reboot your phone frequently".

Cerberus

@MetaEd Haha wtf!

Why would you name a phone like that?

MetaEd

@Cerberus Truth in advertising, I am telling you.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Well, anyway, I imagine Swype runs fine on most modern Android phones.

@MetaEd Yes...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The Nexus S is one of the top modern android phones

Cerberus

8:18 PM

But...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's the predecessor to your famous Galaxy Nexus

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It is a bit old now, isn't it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's 1 year older than the GN

Cerberus

In phone years, that means it's ancient!

Gigili

@Cerberus What are you waiting for? Why don't you buy one?

Cerberus

8:19 PM

But anyway, I wonder what causes the crashes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Not really. It's at least as good as all the mid-range phones they are still releasing now

Cerberus

Some other application the culprit, perhaps?

MetaEd

@Cerberus In the Rant? Plainly the apps can diddle one another. It's like running Windows 95 in your pocket.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Good, but still ancient!

You know I like old things.

@MetaEd Oh, no, I didn't mean the "Rant". The name says it all.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I think swype itself is the culprit of its crashes. I'm sure it's not that easy to write an input method

Cerberus

8:22 PM

Is this widely known around the internet?

Do all S users have this problem?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Dunno

I didn't look into it that much. It wasn't important to me

Cerberus

I would imagine a popular program like that to run properly on the S.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it RUNS. it's just BUGGY

Gigili

Wow, he's really ignoring me! As if I care.

Cerberus

You ignored me, didn't you?

Besides, when did I ignore you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:24 PM

4 mins ago, by Gigili

@Cerberus What are you waiting for? Why don't you buy one?

Cerberus

Oh.

Well, still hoping it gets a bit cheaper, as always.

MetaEd

@Gigili You need a whistle that only dogs can hear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus haha, just wait until December, when they announce its successor

Gigili

@MetaEd Indeed.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Is that when it will be?

That is a bit long.

Not sure I can hold out that long.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:26 PM

@Cerberus that is when they traditionally do it

Cerberus

OK.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

the last 3 phones anyway

Cerberus

But look at the price of the S2.

It has been a month now since the S3, and still no large drop.

It's still more expensive than the Nexus too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus a month? The S3 is still rolling out

Not even every carrier has it yet

Cerberus

It has been in stores for a month here.

And these are Dutch prices.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:32 PM

Well, the S2 price will eventually drop, or else it will be withdrawn from the market and replaced with a cheaper clone

Cerberus

By the way, is the Google Nexus S i9023 your phone?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Replaced? How do you mean?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, the Galaxy S was a powerful, popular phone. But instead of just continuing to sell it, it was replaced on the market with cheaper phones that have the same features

Cerberus

This is the Galaxy S.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, I see.

MetaEd

Ooh. Found more Unicode cool stuff. ⋰⋱

Cerberus

So the Galaxy Nexus came out in November 2011?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:34 PM

@Cerberus There are a few variants. Mine is the I9020

Cerberus

I see no sudden price drop, then. ^

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus did you say that was the Nexus S or Galaxy S?

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Nexus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't know how the pricing works in Europe. But around here the Nexus S dropped in price and then disappeared.

Cerberus

Oops, yes, I typed Galaxy S there: that was wrong.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:36 PM

But remember that our market is really different

Cerberus

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

because when the GN came out it was like $200 with a 3 year contract. It's already $0 with a 3 year contract now

Cerberus

I'm just trying to work 3out whether we will in fact get a large price drop for the Nexus once its successor comes out. And I'm looking at the launches of the Nexus and the S3 to find out.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah I don't think free-market prices can be inferred from that.

I just don't see a price drop for the Nexus S when the Galaxy Nexus came out, nor one for the S2 when the S3 came out, unless it will happen next week.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah, probably the old model is just being discontinued

Cerberus

Yes.

Except for two stores, where the Nexus S is sold for € 450!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:40 PM

@Cerberus yikes

Cerberus

That's only a hundred more than the Galaxy Nexus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's more than it was worth new, IMO