English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Vitaly

3:52 AM

PDF, 320 KB

Cerberus

4:03 AM

@Vitaly Haha, nice.

I still think some studies are OK.

But one has to read them cover to cover to be sure.

Vitaly

Can you recommend a P&P-style reference for determining what lexical category a word belongs to? (Specifically, the sightseeing in We went sightseeing.)

user19161

7:19 AM

@Cerberus Wow, it seems you have 76.5 messages in this room, amazing!

user19161

That makes you the most talkative person in this chat I guess.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

9:16 AM

I would check the dictinary. They denote different meanings and are used for different purposes. — Noah 4 hours ago

The confusion arises from not having proper punctuation's marks. — Noah 4 hours ago

Is this for real?

David Wallace

Probably jokes.

user19161

@DavidWallace No, they are for real, which is what makes it a joke.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Can you then tell me why some printers make it so hard to remove jammed paper? Only my mum can clear the jam for me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Subjective and argumentative.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

10:03 AM

1

A: "Each" followed by "have"

That is correct grammer. There are 3 forms of the word 'each' As a noun: Each has distinctly different... As an adjective: Each word has distinctly different... As an adverb: The words each have distinctly different... In this case, 'each' is an adverb signifying "apart",...

> That is correct grammer.

MartyIX

10:27 AM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law -- "For instance, the number of cities having a certain population size is found to vary as a power of the size of the population, and hence follows a power law." Does this implies approximation: number-of-cities ~ coeficient^size-of-population ?

I'm not really sure if I understand that correctly

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

No, that is the wrong approximation.

If the coefficient is > 1, then the higher the population, the higher the number of cities with that population. (So there are only a couple cities with 10 residents, but countless cities with tens of millions, which is obviously nonsense.) And if the coefficient is < 1, then the number of cities with any population is <1 (which is obvious nonsense as well).

Forget the equation, look at the graph. A picture is worth a thousand words.

MartyIX

10:52 AM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 The graph is obvious and the example too if I look at the graph. I still don't understand the part "... to vary as a power of the size of the population ..." - what does the word "power" mean here?

user19161

@MartyIX Er, what has that got to do with English?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Actually, that picture says nothing about powers. It just says green and yellow.

user19161

@MartyIX It's not your fault. I don't really get what it is saying. I think it is poorly written.

MartyIX

11:09 AM

@ClarkKent Well, I know it is a little off topic here. Sorry for that.

@ClarkKent I'm glad I'm not alone :)

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

A power of X is X to some degree.

The second power of X is X².

So "a power of the size of the population" is population^something, not something^population.

MartyIX

ah, thanks!

user19161

Also, if one needs life lessons, one may come to this chat during "The hour of power".

user19161

Essentially that show is always on, you just need to look out for the lessons.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Jasper, you are even more confusing than Wikipedia.

user19161

11:15 AM

Hello @ana! What brings you here today?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Анастасиия Анищенко. The two и's are unusual.

Could be a -siya as in -сья, though.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Wow, you have X-ray eyes. I can't see the Cyrillic in the username.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

More like X-ray transliteration fingers.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

11:49 AM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 well, it is like this. maybe, because I am AnastasIia, not AnastAsia. But it is also the fault of the transliteration of our passport system in Ukraine: я is iia.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Interesting.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 it should be Anastasiya, but I was lazy to change my pass just because of an additional i in my name.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I've seen iou for ю countless times, but iia for я is news to me.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

=) don#t know.. I have my pass since 5 years

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

At any rate I don't know too many Anastasias. Actually only two. My late grandma and that tsar chick.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

11:54 AM

@ClarkKent hello :) I was just wondering what people do discuss here :) besides, my English is not so good..

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Anastasiia Anishchenko

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 well, it is not made in Russia, or?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

The original duchess was made in Russia I suppose.

The movie was made in America, I'd wager.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

true. so they spell it as they are used to.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Анастасия Николаевна (великая княжна)

Вели́кая княжна́ Анастаси́я Никола́евна (Романова Анастасия Николаевна) (, Петергоф — в ночь с 16 на 17 июля 1918, Екатеринбург) — четвёртая дочь императора Николая II и Александры Фёдоровны. Расстреляна вместе с семьёй в доме Ипатьева. После её смерти около 30 женщин объявляли себя «чудом спасшейся великой княжной», но все рано или поздно были разоблачены как самозванки. Прославлена вместе с родителями, сёстрами и братом в соборе новомучеников Российских как страстотерпица на юбилейном Архиерейском соборе Русской православной церкви в августе 2000 года. Ранее, в 1981 году, они же были кан...

Wiki sez, Peterhof.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

11:56 AM

yes, I have recently read this, I came back from S.-Petersburg two days ago :)

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Peterhof is insanely gorgeous.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

poor girl..

Peterhof is marvellous.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I love it!

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 are u ukrainian?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Hah.

People keep asking me that.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 and what do you answer?

David Wallace

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

11:59 AM

May 23 '11 at 11:23, by Third Idiot

@RegDwight Are you Ukrainian?

Anastasiia Anishchenko

hohohohoho :)

sorry

I don't care

David Wallace

Reg delights in pointing out that everything that's ever said here has been said before.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Somewhere in the transcript I have a nice compilation of people wondering if I was Ukrainian, Bulgarian, French, German, Italian, Elton John, Sting, or HAL-9000.

Anastasiia Anishchenko

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 ))) yes, always same stuff: "how are you?", "where are you from?", "how is the weather there?" etc...

ok, now I should work a bit. Wish you to have a nice afternoon!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

To directly answer your question, my knowledge of Ukrainian is limited to bits and pieces such as "треба було", "хлопець", "десять хвилин", "в першу чергу", and "жовто-блакитный".

I am probably more fluent in Turkish.

David Wallace

12:07 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Yellow what?

KitFox

Roses.

Of Texas.

David Wallace

Good morning, Kit.

KitFox

grumble

shakes fist

David Wallace

Oh oh, do I need to run away?

KitFox

I don't know what it is with this workplace. It's like they think we ought to work in all conditions.

It's so cold in my office, it doesn't register on the thermostat.

David Wallace

12:08 PM

Barefoot in the snow.

KitFox

58 degrees or colder.

Two weeks ago (before they installed my AC) it was over 100 degrees.

David Wallace

Last year, I had a baby blanket and a woolly hat at work, just for such circumstances.

(The 58, not the 100).

KitFox

No. Uh uh. I don't work like that.

I'm a union girl.

My employer is required to provide me with good working conditions, and appropriate temperature is one of them.

David Wallace

My building is very variable too. It has far too many windows and a stupid shape, so it's basically always the same temperature as the air outside.

KitFox

I sat in here in the cold yesterday and ached all night. I'm not doing it again today.

David Wallace

12:11 PM

And of course, it's winter here, even though it's still spring where you are. As per our conversation of three months ago.

KitFox

Plus, I am all wound up and foaming at the mouth.

wipes away foam

bites

Ow! That hurt!

feral grin

How do you remove duplicates from a column in Excel 2007? Quickly, or I will bite you again!

David Wallace

12:13 PM

Are you allowed to sort it first?

KitFox

89 naughty users.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus This is why I like Free software. Stuff like that comes in the package. It doesn't cost money AND you can be reasonably sure that it's not spying on you.

David Wallace

@KitFox I don't know what that means. And I'm starting to fear being re-bitten.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Oh, don't worry, I've already removed the duplicates.

To find that 89 of my users are naughty.

David Wallace

Oh, so I just wasn't quick enough.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:15 PM

@KitFox removed duplicate bites?

KitFox

Yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Hm, you haven't bitten me lately... that I know of

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

David Wallace

I was going to sort the column in question, insert two columns next to it. Put a formula in the first one that shows the value to the west if it's different from the value to the north-west, and blank otherwise. Then do a paste special into the other new column to just get the values. Sort by the third column and delete all the rows that go to the top.

But you've probably got a quicker way.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Ha! Bosnians have a similar expression for exactly the same reason. I'm amazed I didn't recognise it when you said it in Ukrainian.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I am cryptic like that.

David Wallace

12:18 PM

Although I guess блакитный is different enough from plavi that I can be excused.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Cryptic like JLO.

KitFox

@DavidWallace Select the column, select advanced filter, choose a new location and click the unique records only box.

David Wallace

See, I said you'd have a quicker way. Is "unique records only" new in 2007?

user19161

@KitFox Wow, I did not know they have this feature!

KitFox

@DavidWallace Pretty sure.

user19161

12:21 PM

Finally they were smart enough to implement this. They should have done it 9000 years ago.

KitFox

No, they shouldn't have.

David Wallace

OK. Hey, I need to go to bed now. Pleasure being bitten by you, Kit. Good night all.

KitFox

Too many people use Excel like it is a database as it is.

user19161

@DavidWallace Night!

KitFox

@DavidWallace Night!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:21 PM

CU

user19161

@KitFox Oh yeah, it's supposed to be a spreadsheet, not a database! Amazing!

user19161

I win for most number of good night pings on SE chat I think.

David Wallace

4

Q: How to go around Runtime.getRuntime() while writing JUnit?

I have a class where Runtime.getRuntime() is used for executing a script from command line and getting the result for further processing. But when I write JUnit for this class, I cannot find a way to mock/avoid this Runtime.getRuntime().exec() . I cannot use EasyMock or PowerMock or any other m...

He/she repeated my answer as his/her own, accepted his/her own, then thanked me. Pah! Thanks for the rep points, unni!

user19161

@DavidWallace Welcome to SE.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@DavidWallace haha. And he could still delete his and accept yours. But he doesn't.

user19161

12:27 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Welcome to SE.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@DavidWallace Well, I told him off for you.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

If we downvote him too much, he'll get a badge out of it.

His formatting sucks, too.

user19161

So I noticed that in Chrome, many boxes I type in have a blue outline, but not in Firefox.

user19161

This leaves me wondering whether the blue is supposed to be there or not.

KitFox

The blue is your focus indicator, I think.

user19161

12:31 PM

Ah, so I guess Chrome has chosen to have it and Firefox not.

user19161

3

Q: Meaning of "modulo the fact"

This proposal is the best so far, modulo the fact that parts of it need modification. What is the meaning of modulo the fact? Does it mean This proposal is the best so far, but note what parts of it still need to be modified.

meaning

user19161

How many of you have actually heard this usage?

user19161

I have, but I am not sure where. In fact, I use it myself too.

KitFox

What?

The remainder of the fact?

user19161

I guess it's not common, so I voted to reopen and now it's open.

Javascript Geek

12:34 PM

hi everyone

i am trying to practice my english, do you think watching movies with english subtitles or sometimes without any subtitles would help me?

KitFox

English movies with English subtitles? Maybe.

Depends on how good the subtitles are.

user19161

@JavascriptGeek Hearing and reading both help, by common sense.

Javascript Geek

i am not really comfortable with the british accent, so watching british movies without subtitles is a bit hard for me, but I haven 't faced any problem with american movies....

user19161

@JavascriptGeek For me it's not the accent that makes me not understand. It's just that speakers in movies don't always articulate the words, so they are unclear by default.

Javascript Geek

ok, I will try, but i wonder if I can learn proper english (and not just english) in that way.

I see

KitFox

12:38 PM

@JavascriptGeek Hahaha. No.

user19161

@JavascriptGeek If by proper English you mean standard English used in formal and academic circles, then no.

user19161

Nonetheless, it still helps in the learning process generally.

KitFox

But you could learn some good English by watching movies.

Just pick refined films instead of action flicks.

user19161

It's also important to know English as it is used in the real world.

Javascript Geek

Will try.... Its a way that doesn 't need money and time :)

user19161

12:40 PM

So use movies as a supplement, not the meat.

Javascript Geek

yes, but I can t speak english with my friends, unfortunately :P

user19161

@JavascriptGeek Hey, there are many online resources for learning English you know.

Javascript Geek

But i think it may be a way not to forget the basics I learned at school

yes, and there are also tutorials too, but many of them start from the basics that I have already revised... and I don t really have the time...

so watching english movies without or subtitles it s a very easy way

that watching them with greek subtitles, I mean

user19161

@JavascriptGeek Well, you need time to learn anything properly. And you need to learn the basics before flying.

Javascript Geek

i understand

KitFox

12:43 PM

The problem with subtitles is that they are often completely wrong.

Javascript Geek

how did you learned english?

user19161

@KitFox Often? Wow, those must be weird movies then. I wonder if they are NSFW.

Javascript Geek

at school?

learn*

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ClarkKent If you don't think subtitles are often wrong, you haven't been reading many subtitles.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Huh, the modulo question is open again? Why?

KitFox

12:45 PM

Because the world hates me.

I'm going home. Back later.

user19161

@KitFox Bye! Hope your back is OK!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Poor Kitty.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Because it is a very uncommon use, and wiktionary is not authoritative.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@ClarkKent it's very common in my neck of the woods.

And who cares if Wiktionary is authoritative. That's not the question.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, you are alone in the woods.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

12:48 PM

Certainly it contains thousands of things that are suboptimal or outright wrong. But that's beside the point.

user19161

But like I said I use it that way myself.

user19161

It is probably a spin-off from mathematical circles.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ClarkKent "probably"? what else COULD it be?

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, I guess I usually watch English movies with Chinese subtitles or Chinese movies with English subtitles!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ClarkKent and you don't find hundreds of mistakes?

user19161

12:50 PM

I have not really watched English movies with English subtitles.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Well, translation is not meant to be word for word. As long as the idea is conveyed so that the audience appreciates the movie, it is fine. I think I have come across only few mistakes, not many.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ClarkKent I never said it had to be word-for-word. I mean actual mistakes. Like sentences that are grammatically incorrect. Or places where they use the wrong words entirely.

Heck, when I watched "Crimson Rivers" the English subtitles translated "63 meters" to "42 feet"

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah yes, but I notice only few, maybe because I am paying more attention to the movie instead.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 What? They threw in a conversion for free?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@ClarkKent an INCORRECT conversion

user19161

12:53 PM

Let me tell you the funniest mistake I came across...

user19161

It was an English movie with Chinese subtitles. So the guy says "Honey,..." and the Chinese translation was the honey that we eat instead.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Sorry guys, but I have to close it again.

thefreedictionary.com/modulo

His quote is taken straight out of a dictionary.

Come on.

If that's not a NARQ, nothing is.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 OK sure. No need to be apologetic! But not everyone is as easy as me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well I should have checked earlier.

But I thought the Wiktionary link would suffice.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…