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8:00 AM
okay
I'm up for charcreation if you are
 
I'm making dinner, but I'm in and out.
So we can give it a shot.
How familiar are you with FATE and FAE?
 
some
I've made characters for it before, and read up on it before
but never played it
 
Okay, cool.
You saw C. Ross's character creation process earlier today, right?
 
yea
 
Okay, so the first thing is to start talking about the character.
 
8:08 AM
right now I'm intrigued by the ooh-shiny of a nonhuman, possibly draconic PC
but I'm also kinda attached to the Adventurer Princess
 
lol
 
General concept, then childhood, then generally why you're in the Forest, then what took you from childhood to being in the Forest. Trouble will probably come out organically in that process.
 
so if @trogdor is going dragon, I am fine with the Dragon Quota :P
 
actually
 
The main character of the original novels could probably be defined as an Adventurer Princess, so I'm cool with that.
 
8:09 AM
that's not a sure thing
 
(And it would be a nice contrast to Keredwel.)
 
I "might" go dragon if I can, and only if I have to replace my current character
 
A PC dragon would still be a basic PC in stats: aspects and stunts would reflect dragonyness, but there's no change in mechanical power inherent in a non-human form.
 
@BESW yea, she's not exactly a credit to the title of princess, is she?
 
A PC dragon would have the same mechanical and narrative weight as a PC chameleon.
@Sohum Poor Keredwel. She does pretty well in her own element.
 
8:11 AM
hey I don't want it to be overpowered
I just like dragons
 
okay, I'll go Adventurer Princess, then
let's see... middle child, family of seven
Princess Thursday :P
 
The problem with dragon PC is conceptual: you'd still need to be on a Desperate Quest, and the Forest can't handle many dragons on Desperate Quests without stretching credulity.
@Sohum Nice.
 
I was thinking standard ran-away-from-being-married-off trope
 
mm
 
because that's always good for rebellious adventurer princesses
 
8:13 AM
well I think I could at least try
if it doesn't work out, you know I will have another idea within a few minutes
 
@trogdor Sure. Just... not more than one Desperately Questing Dragon at a time need apply.
@Sohum Fair enough. Good solid trope.
 
lol
 
hmm. she needs a Desperate Quest you say?
how's this -
 
not exactly
but you need a reason to be in this forest
 
unbeknownst to her and her family, the guy she was being married off to was a wizard
(he was keeping it a secret because wizardliness and nobility normally really don't mix)
and he placed... call it a magical pre-nup on the proceedings
so when she ran away, she found her left arm and leg beginning to wither
 
8:16 AM
wtf kinda pre-nup is that?
 
the eeeeevil kind!
 
Are we talking about the Wizards we've established in continuity already: absorb magic with their staves from their surroundings, can't cast without a staff, generally massive egotistical dicks? Or are we talking about a more general wizardy caster type as of yet undefined?
 
(dude is taking the place of the standard hag's curse here)
 
Because... I want this to be either a Fire Witch, or Zemenar (or his son), barring you having specific other ideas.
 
@BESW I am totally okay with this
 
8:17 AM
fire witch?
 
nah, I hadn't fleshed him out beyond "cursebringer"
Zemenar's son would work well, I think
 
Fire witches have inherent and very powerful fire-based magic, inherited through their families. They're renowned for having very short tempers, and being immune to most other magic.
NOT the kind of guy a king would want to marry into his family, and a bad fire witch would totally be cool with that kind of curse.
 
but
fire based
 
is Zemenar a fire witch?
 
not wither-your-arm-based
 
8:19 AM
Zemenar is a Wizard.
 
@trogdor "burning from the inside", I dig it
 
lol
but
outside burns are better
 
@BESW completely different things, noted
 
Their magic is strictly limited to "burning people." They derive their strength from fire, but can channel it in other ways if they take the time to learn how.
Wizards: Absorb magic with their staves from their surroundings, can't cast without a staff, belong to the Society of Wizards, are generally massive egotistical dicks.
(Most magical beings and casters create their own magic; wizards steal it.)
 
could Zemenar's son be a fire witch?
 
8:21 AM
Zemenar is the Head Wizard of the Society of Wizards.
No, fire witch magic and Wizard magic is incompatible--fire witch magic is one of the few powers capable of destroying a wizard's staff.
...though the fire witch might not survive doing it.
That would be one reason to introduce a fire witch: to counter Zemenar.
 
even if he's kind of a dick :P
mmm
I'm cool with either
 
It'd be more elegant to use Antorell.
(Zemenar's son.)
 
(I guessed :P)
Could ... Antorell be adopted, and faking Wizardness?
 
Yes, and Antorell and Lord Northface can have lovely discussions about Following In Our Father's Footsteps.
We'll see, let's leave Antorell a fairly blank slate for now.
 
fine by me
 
8:24 AM
It's always nice when things develop as the story demands.
Back to the Princess!
 
she prefers just "Thursday"
 
Aside from arranged marriage, did she like being a princess?
 
mmm. yea! her parents were always nice to her, there were always new stuff to do and learn and be
 
Did her mother die of Terminal Backstory, or is she still in the picture?
 
I mean, mom kept going on and on about "A proper lady", but as far as she could tell that was just an excuse to learn how to balance books on her head
which was fun!
@BESW nah, she's still around. both parents are still around, though maybe less in the public limelight now that Monday is old enough to be handling most things
 
8:27 AM
Does she get along with her siblings?
 
lol
all of them are named after days
 
probably with the older ones, less so with the younger ones
she looks up to Monday and Tuesday
Wednesday is - was - is! her best confidante
 
@trogdor Except the youngest, who is named December?
 
lol
I was thinking January
 
@BESW so tempted :P
 
8:28 AM
but wtv
 
Friday was always an odd duck, and no one really gets along with her
and Saturday and Sunday are the terrible duo of the family. though, to be fair, they're only ~8
 
Hee.
So, with such a loving family, why did she feel the need to run away from her marriage instead of talking to her apparently-reasonable folks?
 
I think that's at the heart of who the character is
 
Did she always want to Have Adventures?
 
my guess right now is that it wasn't the marriage, per se
(though she did not like Antorell)
 
8:30 AM
(Poor Antorell. He lives in his father's shadow, and it shows.)
 
it was just a convenient placeholder
she did not want to ... grow up, fundamentally. She's been slowly getting the sense that there's more to the life of a princess than happy fun times, and she did not like it
she doesn't want to rule, be in charge, be responsible for others
she's happy taking care of herself and just herself
 
So she ran off, okay. But something needs to happen between that and entering the Forest, or she's going to look like the world's stupidest princess.
 
mmm. like a vision or a warning or something?
 
Or she was chased into the Forest, or someone/thing she cares about is in there... ooooh.
 
I mean, her left limbs are withering
(maybe they've withered off entirely but she found Giuseppe...)
 
8:33 AM
I assume her character arc is going to be about responsibility for others, right?
 
yea
 
So put one of her sisters in danger, in the Forest.
As a direct result of her running away.
 
oooh totally doable
though she probably doesn't know that quite yet
 
Maybe Wednesday went looking for Thursday and got in trouble, or maybe January was kidnapped by Antorell?
 
*Monday :P
 
8:35 AM
No, have her know. Start out with the tension and drama right up front.
We don't need exposition scenes.
 
yea, fair enough
I assume a raven of black wing came to deliver the message
 
Seems legit.
 
so we're going with kidnapping, then?
 
I dunno, kidnapping or someone going to look for her and getting in trouble are both pretty compelling.
The first puts the focus on the kidnapper (maybe it's not Antorell and she's making a rash assumption there?), the second on her relationship with her family.
Which are you more interested in?
 
mmm. I'm trying to figure out a way to put the wither curse into play. or maybe I should scrap that
because they are both compelling; now which one would fit better is the question...
 
8:40 AM
Hmm.
What triggered the curse?
 
her deciding to not go through with the marriage
is magic, it can read minds
I mean, a kidnapping is plenty sufficient to establish Antorell as A Bad Dude
 
Okay, so here's the way I see it:
 
maybe it's not necessary
 
The wither curse is her trouble, and her sister's being in danger is not directly related to Antorell.
The sister being in danger is basically All Thursday's Fault, and the wither curse is holding her back from fixing the problem she created.
 
seems legit
two points, then:
a) I want some way of her having learned Weds is in danger
b) I'd like a scene of her being ineffectual in saving Weds because of the curse
 
8:46 AM
@Sohum DEFINITELY can do that.
@Sohum Raven messenger is still a great idea.
 
raven messenger from the family, then?
 
Wednesday = Odin's Day, Odin was associated with ravens.
Wednesday has an affinity for ravens and sent a messenger in her hour of need?
(Or the raven went on his own.)
 
was it Huginn or Muninn? :P
yea, okay, that works
I like it, actually
Weds is all Disney princess, help me bird in my hour of need
 
Raven shows up: "Thursday, you done goofed!"
 
"Now follow these gps coordinates..."
 
8:49 AM
Totally unrelated: when I have a moment, I'm going to add Making the Tough Decisions to my introductory post on the forum as must-read.
 
yea, that's a good article
 
I try to make it mandatory reading for all my IRL players, but apparently I missed @trogdor somehow.
 
mm. okay, are we at mechanics point yet?
 
Yes!
 
8:51 AM
We usually do them on a GDocs page.
Oh, there you are.
 
can I have multiple Other Aspects?
 
So, high concept?
 
@Brian Please check my math. I've just pledged $228 to the Fate Dice Kickstarter. If Brass dice don't become available, I'll take an extra $15 set or something. But they seem on track to become available!
 
Yes, I'm going to have everyone run up to a max of 5 if they want.
 
@BESW Adventurer Princess, right?
 
8:54 AM
(HC, Trouble, 3 Other)
@Sohum Can we flesh that out?
Independent Adventurer Princess, Rebellious Adventurer Princess?
 
@BESW ah, I see
she's not so much rebellious as ... yea, Independent works
 
Dinnertime! I'll be back later.
 
but Running from Responsibility should be an aspect in and of itself
@BESW sure!
 
@BESW I may have read it and forgotten
 
@BESW How's "An Adventurer, not a Princess"
 
9:03 AM
well
you said before maybe she liked some parts of being a princess?
 
yea, but here "Princess" represents all the Badstuff that goes along with it. She liked being a princess when it was all Goodstuff...
 
mk
is this a High Concept idea?
 
yea
 
BESW has always said a "High Concept" is supposed to be something another person who knows your character would describe you as
if that's what you would theoretically say fits the description it might work
 
9:12 AM
readin'!
 
9:33 AM
somewhat tempted to go with "Princess Who Saved Herself"
it does seem to hit more, aha, aspects of who she is
oh, I just realised I gave you guys the published link
 
10:03 AM
Back, at least mostly.
Nice aspects, but there's a bit more overlap than is strictly desirable.
 
mm, you're right
 
Your high concept and "Royalty in Plainclothes" both emphasize the "nobility" idea.You could probably get more mileage out of the latter aspect, giving her a more round character, if you move away from the ideas you've already established.
 
Royalty in Plainclothes, at least, is probably completely unnecessary
 
Suggestion: go back to her childhood and identify things she liked to do. Skills or knowledge sets that she would have been developing can give you more aspect ideas and make her a rounder character.
 
the idea was that she doesn't really think of herself as nobility, but she is, and has had that upbringing
hmmm
 
10:07 AM
Maybe she's got really good etiquette training?
 
lol
 
the intent was to be compelled to alienate people and to invoke for class and flashiness
 
> There was a great deal of etiquette, from the proper way to curtsy before a visiting price to how loudly it was permissible to scream when being carried off by a giant.
 
etiquette training for that loose definition of etiquette works :P
 
"Can't Forget My Training"?
something like that, maybe.
 
10:10 AM
there was an additional aspect I wanted to fold in, along the lines of all learning is good learning, but learning in the learning-by-doing sense, diving into things, rather than learning as in book learning
seems to touch upon similar bits
 
Trained But Untried?
 
ooh. that's ... somewhat different, but also pretty good
 
Remember, at the end of every session you can adjust an aspect to reflect her growth, so these don't have to be aspects that will work for her throughout her character arc.
 
yea
 
Also, I think the word "plucky" might be useful.
 
10:15 AM
Plucky!
is an excellent word :P
 
Not necessarily right here, but it's a word that could do well for her.
 
hell, actually
"Learn By Doing"
that's a pretty good aspect, actually
 
Okay.
 
@BESW no?
 
I'm having a hard time seeing it being compelled, but not all aspects have to be good at that.
With more aspects, each one doesn't have to sparkle quite as much.
 
10:19 AM
it'd be compelled to get her to jump into doing something she's unprepared for
 
Ah.
Okay, do it!
 
yeah
I don't know how you didn't see that :P
 
I'm killing I'm Curious, too, because Learn By Doing captures the thing I was trying to capture there
 
I'm not on my game right now, and was thinking in a different direction.
@Sohum Good insight.
I really do think that defining some skill or knowledge set would be good.
 
mm, okay
 
10:21 AM
Is she patient? Did she bully the armsmaster into giving her fencing lessons? Can she identify poisonous plants?
 
tempted to crib from Erfworld's Jillian
"The Salad Fork Is Excellent At Poking Eyes Out" :P
 
The difficulty here is finding a way to leverage the kind of skill or knowledge a princess might acquire in a way that makes it useful in the Forest.
 
hmmm
 
So consider the virtues (like patience--all that sewing and embroidery) that a princessly occupation might instill.
 
she's probably not very patient, in that sense. she'll do stuff that takes time, but only if she likes doing it. Carefully +0.
she's... hm.
 
10:25 AM
You said she liked balancing books on her head.
Sounds like she has great poise.
That could be leveraged for both physical and social stability.
 
yea, fencing would suit her
well, not so much fencing
staff combat?
 
Not getting knocked off her feet, and keeping a straight face.
 
I mean, she did bully the armsmaster into something
@BESW mmm.
 
[grin] Proper Ladies and Proper Fencers Both Have Perfect Poise.
 
a little long winded
but it seems to work, I would think
 
10:30 AM
Aspects should be concise, but they can be as long as they need to be.
 
heheheh
 
I imagine there's a way to condense it if necessary.
 
nah
seems like it would lose something if you did
 
yea
oh, quarterstaves were also used in fencing
excellent, done
 
huh
did not know that
 
10:31 AM
yey!
 
seems odd honestly
 
So, you can have up to three free stunts. After that it starts eating into your Refresh. You don't need to come up with all three right away, we can add them as we go.
 
stretch morning
 
it's not morning
silly man
 
@BenHardy No, you don't get to pretend you're in a different time zone than I.
 
10:33 AM
It's morning SOMEWHERE.
 
this is what it looks like youtube.com/watch?v=qBuv2ya1hRs
conveniently, it uses both hands :P
 
Looks a lot like the Micronesian stick dances.
 
hmm
maybe
except you know
this is possibly not choreographed
 
Which makes sense; they evolved out of village wars as a formalized and nonlethal alternative form of competition.
 
yea, I don't think this is choreographed
 
10:35 AM
@trogdor Neither were the stick dances, traditionally.
 
@BESW oh, huh
 
well
the ones I have seen nowadays most likely are
they aren't used for that anymore, I would think
 
Modern "performance art" versions are heavily choreographed because the purpose has changed.
 
yeah
that is what I am saying
I haven't seen an "old" kind
 
But originally the stick dancers were from rival villages and trying to show that they were better than the other guys.
 
10:36 AM
just the ones they do now
 
mmm
 
yeeeeah, that's choreographed.
Nobody in their right mind would pull off something like the jump at 0:41 without rehearsing it, and nobody who saw someone do it wouldn't take advantage of it.
 
the obvious stunt would be: Because Proper Ladies and Proper Fencers Both Have Perfect Poise, I get a +2 when I Forcefully [Attack or Overcome, not sure] with my Staff
@BESW fair enough
 
Also, they're obviously flynning. (Aiming for the stick, not each other, and not trying to knock the stick out of the other's hand most of the time either.)
 
looks up
 
10:40 AM
Look at 0:55 where the guy on the right doesn't swing until the guy on the left has his stick over his head to catch it.
 
oh, huh
 
Not trying to belittle what they are doing; I did traditional stick dance performances myself during high school and they're hard work!
But they aren't improvising, not much anyway.
 
nod
 
(And as someone who has done that sort of thing with long hair, that guy should really tie his back.)
Anyway, irrelephant for Thursday.
 
lol
 
10:43 AM
Stunts?
The "Forcefully [attack/overcome] with my staff" stunt is telling me that you want her to be in physical combat often.
 
lol
 
But I'm tempted to do a stunt like: "Because I Learn By Doing, once per session I can be unprepared and yet somehow succeed", or "Because I'm Running From Responsibility, once per session I can immediately leave a scene, ceding narrative control."
@BESW yea, which I'm not sure I am
 
we did have a good fight in the first session we had multiple PC's in
 
@Sohum The latter is already a mechanic. It's called "conceding."
 
@BESW "*without concessions" :P
 
10:47 AM
Ahah, so you just leave without giving concessions or gaining the FP?
 
mmm. It has good flavour, but I'm not sure I like it as a player :P
 
Agreed; it's not very interesting.
("Interesting" is the baseline evaluation for anything in FATE.)
 
@BESW (:D)
what sort of stunt would Learn By Doing have...
 
possibly a +2 every time you do something you have not done before
 
I'd go the other way.
Okay, this isn't quite following the templates...
> Because I Learn By Doing, I get +2 when I create an advantage that I have already created at least once before in the same encounter.
needs tweaking.
 
10:51 AM
mmm
when I create an advantage I'm familiar with?
 
That's a bit too broad.
 
yea
 
And... any stunt that encourages you to do the same thing over and over isn't interesting. So blah.
 
actually, yea
LbD is meant to encourage her to do new stuff
 
Okay, here's something to keep in mind: your stunt justifications don't have to mirror your aspects.
 
10:54 AM
oh, right
I ... did miss that
 
> Because I am trained in good first impressions, I get +2 on the roll if my first action in a social encounter is to create an advantage.
Meh.
My brain isn't in stunt mode right now, obviously.
 
it's not terrible... but yeah
I'm good with letting it emerge during play
 
> Because I am trained in etiquette, I get +2 when I Cleverly create advantages when I'm in conversation with someone.
 
yea, doable
 
> Because I have good poise, I get +2 when I Quickly defend against actions meant to put me off balance.
(both socially and physically off balance, so good spread.)
 
10:59 AM
poise would be Qui- yea
 

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