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12:03 AM
@BESW Interested in what? The Fate tool?
 
1:03 AM
@JonathanHobbs Yes.
 
Yes. Waiting to see what @Problematic will hack out :)
and considering putting together my own version of it so we can see both our approaches
 
@JonathanHobbs what stack?
 
@Problematic Tech stack? I'd be putting together a client-side version because I'm most interested in working out the interaction, but that would be with just... html5, javascript, css, maybe with some assistance from bootstrap.
 
@JonathanHobbs aye. Any specific JS frameworks in mind?
 
Server-side... I'm not sure! Asp.net MVC with C#? Ruby? Python? I haven't done much server-side programming before. I've read plenty about it and picked up a lot but never really sat down and made anything.
(I'm also a relatively recent graduate, and only in my first few months of real IT work, though I'm more skilled than the average graduate because I fiddled around with programming all the time prior to Uni)
@Problematic Bootstrap and jQuery are ones I've used before, and I'm only recently getting exposed to others, like Knockout and Node.js. A friend of mine is using Knockout with the client side of an MVC project, and apparently it's very useful for that purpose?
The real answer is "I'm not really sure!" :D
 
1:19 AM
Fair enough.
 
and "None because it's going to be relatively simple and I'm sure later I'll come across something I wish I'd used!"
 
I'm mostly happy with the API I'm working up in Django; I'll open source it once I'm done rebasing the shame out of it and you can use it as a base if you want
 
@Problematic O: Yes please, I'd like to see it when you're done. That sounds great.
Now that a ton of technical issues are solved: onwards, and time to do some paying work!
Ttfn!
 
2:23 AM
@JonathanHobbs want to do pool party for the FATE dice?
 
3:00 AM
@JonathanHobbs Chop chop, only 46 hours to go.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Yes, I do. :D
@BESW Thanks for pinging me, my internet cut out then I forgot ;o
 
@JonathanHobbs how much are you willing to put in?
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I'll take half the shipping since there's 2 of us, and I'll pay for my share of the dice. The default is enough for 6 $15 sets, though we can add more and split it any way we like as long as it goes over $90, and I'm considering getting a fourth set.
 
@JonathanHobbs so down the middle?
assuming 3 $15 each?
goes to you or me?
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Yes, down the middle, 3 sets each.
 
3:07 AM
@JonathanHobbs okay...
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton When are they shipping?
(I'm going to have a different mailing address by the end of the year, so if they're not shipping for a while they should go to you)
 
Early Batch shipping target is September.
So if you guys want Centurion, Core, Atomic Robo, or Winter Knight dice, that's Early Batch.
If you want Valentine, Vampire, Eldritch, or Leather/Ivory/Brass dice, you'll have to order them separately: one full Pool Party order per batch.
 
Oh nuts. The three dice sets I'm most keen on are the second batch.
Vampire, Eldritch and Brass/etc.
 
Dat Shipping Cost.
Second Batch is aimed for early 2014. If you order sets from both batches without paying extra money, you get ALL of them when the Second Batch is ready.
So if Brian is willing to wait....
 
@Brian Which sets are you after? We can work something out (including that I'll consider forgoing the second batch dice for first batch dice)
 
3:17 AM
@JonathanHobbs no idea. and magician is also interested.
2014... I've got no idea what country I'll be in
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton So, needs to be the early batch then?
 
If any of my other players were interested in Second Batch, I'd be more inclined to go for some L/I/B.
But... sooner dice is good.
@이성수 Hi!
 
I'll be happy to take the order then post it out if they can send out a shipping address survey just before shipping, in any case. But if you're going to be in a different country, that means one of us will have to deal with international shipping costs :P
So I'll find my Eldritch dice at a game store instead
 
3:40 AM
@JonathanHobbs So, you'll get Early Batch dice? Which ones?
 
@BESW I'll check with my friends this afternoon
 
Oh, only 46 hours to go for that. Thanks for the reminder.
 
hrmm, that timing worries me
but yeah, @JonathanHobbs you handle it?
and I'll throw you monies with the funds transfer thingy
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton What timing?
 
@JonathanHobbs end of year
cause may be facing a "leave country" pronblem
 
3:51 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I didn't know it was that kind of PhD
 
@Problematic [blink] I don't think it's possible to be a Wernher von Braun of Philosophy.
But if anyone can do it...
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Are we talking October, November, December or 2014?
 
@JonathanHobbs I speculate that it will be based on scholastic calendars.
 
"... where they were closely guarded by the SS with orders to execute the team if they were about to fall into enemy hands."
History is horrifically awesome.
The only question that remains, then, is into whose hands Brian is about to fall.
 
@Problematic "Vaunce ze datas are oop, who cares vhere zhey come daoun?"
 
4:01 AM
@BESW ... he's a Jaeger with a PhD in philosophy?
 
I am approximate Lehrer's bad German accent.
 
@BESW That was awesome. Can we still pretend he's a Jaegermonster, though?
 
Hoo boy. Efferyboddy vants to be un Jaeger. Ve dozzen't grow on treez.
 
They iz desirous uv hyu goot looks and sottle charm
 
Also, it's always better with Lehrer's introductions: youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio
 
4:10 AM
He looks overly pleased with himself while singing that.
 
Lehrer is pretty awesome.
He deserves to be pleased with himself.
 
Not a lot of people can put "singer-songwriter, satirist, pianist, and mathematician" on their resume.
 
He probably would've put "mathematician" first.
Can't find a live video of New Math.
 
4:39 AM
Hmph. I think I'm done clicking through Tom Lehrer videos and it's time for bed.
I said good DAY, sir!
 
5:38 AM
Thought re: web app. Tie dice rolling to "fractals" rather than users, so that GMs can roll NPC vs NPC.
 
6:06 AM
@BESW I'm not sure what you mean by "fractal" in this context. What would that look like?
 
yesterday, by BESW
The Bronze Rule, or the Fate Fractal, is thus:
yesterday, by BESW
> In Fate, you can treat anything in the game world like it’s a character. Anything can have aspects, skills, stunts, stress tracks, and consequences if you need it to.
yesterday, by Problematic
I'm calling the model that a card will represent a Fractal, because it makes me smile
That is, each individual card (creature, item, etc) has its own independent roll function.
Are you familiar with GDrive spreadsheets and/or Excel?
 
@BESW Ok, that's excellent. I get it. And that's some great use of vocab, since calling it a "Character" is confusing when you come across the fact the Sun or a stick or a house can be a character.
Hey @Problematic: Nice choice. ;)
 
My favorite fractals are metafractals.
 
@BESW What are those?
 
Like, in a Highlander game, the idea that "There Can Only Be One" would probably be a well-developed fractal of its own.
 
6:17 AM
@BESW Aspect: Rule of Cool Incarnate
 
 
1 hour later…
7:23 AM
@JonathanHobbs I got chided once for removing tagged information (specifically game names) from question titles.
 
@BESW What was the circumstance? I do it when the word is just there, and not even part of the following/preceding sentence. Like "Pathfinder How do I do a thing?"
(I would avoid it for tags at risk of being automatically deleted, but this isn't one of those)
 
Can't recall exactly, but it felt similar at the time.
 
Ok, well, hm. I've done it loads of times already.
 
On another topic, you can probably do a lot better yourself, but if you'd rather not re-invent the wheel, this is the spreadsheet I'm using to track my players' dice orders.
 
Oh! Good thinking.
 
7:35 AM
The "2nd Batch?" line adds $5 for shipping separately, which you'll be uninterested in.
 
@BESW Why is it you live halfway between Australia and Japan and yet you don't pay international shipping costs?
 
Because Guam is part of the US Postal Service.
 
But hooooooowwwwww. I guess because you already have ships going to and fro anyway?
 
Any non-USPS service, including nearly every US-based private shipping service, charges international.
UPS, FedEx, anybody like that, because they like to send things by truck, and that... doesn't work so well.
Many services won't ship to us at all.
 
@BESW Oceantruck
 
7:38 AM
(Amazon will send me books, but not software.)
 
@BESW Oh. Well, dear. :(
 
So I had to check with Evil Hat specifically if they'd be using USPS or not before I joined the KS.
 
7:50 AM
@JonathanHobbs Is this more clear?
1
Q: Can a Paladin take levels of other classes?

David Allan FinchIn 3.5 D&D, paladins have severe restrictions on multiclassing: Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, t...

 
@BESW Much much better. :)
Thanks
@BESW Hooray for Pathfinder improving fun levels!
 
Yeah.
That's the kind of improvement they managed: deleting paragraphs of obviously obstructive material.
When the difficulty was embedded in the mechanics, though, they generally faltered or failed.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:19 AM
@Brian Are you there?
@BrianBallsun-Stanton If I ship you your dice (possibly internationally) when they arrive, do you mind if we place an order that includes Second Batch dice?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:22 PM
@JonathanHobbs is good
 
 
1 hour later…
1:38 PM
@BESW I had that thought as well. Needs a clean chat syntax though, so you don't have to find the "roll" button on the card you're wanting to use
 
I was thinking that would be exactly the system.
 
Card-clicking?
 
Yeah.
Nice big ROLL graphic or something.
 
Yeah, that's good, but you should be able to do something like "!dice +4" in chat to get your roll and final result
Especially for players with only one card and no real need to split focus from chat
 
Agreed.
Concept (probably too restrictive): on cards with Skills/Approaches, a way to click one of them so that it automatically rolls with that modifier.
 
1:41 PM
I like that
Something like "!dice +clever" would be cool
 
So, a "ROLL + [<box>]" button on the chat window and click-to-roll-with-this-mod on cards with stats.
@Problematic But would require the app knowing which card was meant.
 
Sure.
We can hammer out the details when that feature's ready to be built, but there should be a way to make it work
 
If Wil has a staff fractal that's also Clever...
 
I suspect the topmost card with roll by default, or some sort of "active card" mechanism
 
Harum. I can see that getting finicky, but maybe!
@C.Ross Hi!
Take a look around, and check out our forum with narrative recounts of play so far.
 
1:51 PM
New player?
 
Pooooosssibly.
 
@BESW will do
 
Happy to answer questions.
But my players are almost as much in the know as I am, and about the important stuff they have just as much agency.
@Problematic In particular has a firm grasp of the setting's nature/ethos.
 
Ah shucks
 
'struth.
 
2:00 PM
I fell asleep thinking about code; I'm trying to burn through as much of it as possible before work. I will probably regret this later.
 
Did visions of ORGATES dance in your head?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:13 PM
Indeed.
 
The only reason I remember ORGATES is that I re-learned them when trying to build a D&D campaign based on the old Doctor Who episode "Tomb of the Cybermen."
 
4:01 PM
Think I should have the data API finished today. I'm... consciously ignoring the realtime component for now.
 
What does that mean?
 
It means that it'll be ready for the UI to be built, but I'll still have to go back and address how to broadcast updates later.
 
Ah, how people can see what other people are doing?
 
Aye.
Until that's solved, we can still do short polling, but it's not ideal.
 
Sigh. I'm eternally at a liminal state of understanding and failing to understand programming.
On an entirely unrelated note, I want to give the EF campaign an ethos aspect but I don't know how to phrase it.
 
4:11 PM
Possibly because it's 2 in the morning?
 
No, it's the kind of brain I have to work with.
I can understand math on a theoretical, conceptual, philosophical level, but I can't keep 2x3 and 2+3 straight.
Programming runs into the same snags.
 
@BESW I meant this one, sorry
 
...maybe so.
 
The Forest is a harsh mistress
 
Something about the way silly things can be serious without losing their silliness?
 
4:20 PM
How do the characters in the books refer to the Forest?
 
With fear and respect.
...and sometimes exasperation.
 
But how specifically?
 
> People who traveled there were always getting changed into flowers or trees or animals or rocks, or doing something careless and having their heads turned backward, or being carried off by ogres or giants or trolls, or enchanted by witches or wicked fairies. It did not sound like a good place for a casual, pleasant visit.
Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the second book, which is really the one I need.
 
"The Laughter is Quieter"?
(Hey everyone! @BrianBallsun-Stanton pointed me here)
 
> The Enchanted Forest comes in two parts, the Outer Forest and the Deep Woods. Most people don't realize that. The Outer Forest is relatively safe if you know what you're doing[...]. I'd never gone more than an hour's walk from our cottage, and nothing particularly interesting ever happened, but I'd always known that something might.
@Sohum Welcome! Did he say why he did such a thing?
 
4:26 PM
/me cough
"It would, of course, be wrong to tempt you into that game. so I won't."
 
I think of the Forest somewhat like the One Ring, especially that scene from the movie where Frodo tells Gollum "the ring is treacherous, it will hold you to your word"
 
> I waited for a couple of minutes, but nothing happened. Somehow, I wasn't reassured. Being lost in the Enchanted Forest does not do much for one's peace of mind.
 
And then he left me a link and I spent dinner reading campaign logs.
 
@Sohum Thoughts?
 
@BESW Am I supposed to have thoughts deeper than "I wanna play"?
 
4:28 PM
No, but it's always interesting to hear any if they exist.
 
mmm.
The Forest is a cool concept
The Forest as a roleplaying setting is a cooler concept
 
This is largely new territory for me: a system I've never run before, a setting I've always sublimated instead of making explicit, and play-by-chat is totally new.
 
shades of West Marshes, I assume?
 
It's explicitly set in the forest of the Enchanted Forest Chronicles novels.
 
ah
not explicitly familiar with that
but by West Marshes I meant arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/78/…
 
4:31 PM
But since that setting is "Every forest in every fairy tale is this Forest," that setting is pretty fluid and copes well with player initiative.
 
oooh.
okay that yes pulls together what I thought was cool
 
I chose it because while its ethos is rather unique, the setting is very open. There's no sense of canon here. Even if we establish something as True, like "Wizards can't cast without their staves," you're free to come up with a wizard who comes from a different tradition.
 
yea. you're pulling every fairy tale ever into one shared canon
 
And then overlaying the ethos that while mashing fairy tales together is necessarily going to result in silliness, for the people involved it's very serious.
 
and if one fairy tale is compelling, ALL OF THEM is necessarily even more compelling!
 
4:34 PM
2 days ago, by BESW
Put it this way: There's a witches' gardening club that gets upset if their members grow un-poisoned apples, because then people will think witches aren't mean and nasty, and they'll get plagued by requests for love spells and teeth-whitening charms, and the witches will have to go live in remote out-of-the-way dead-ends like the sorceresses do; you never see a sorceress around anymore, do you? And why? They got good press.
 
hahaha
 
These are people, not tropes, who live in the Forest and wander through it. Their smallest troubles don't seem so small to them. I think EF 002: Quest for Pants captured it very well.
 
I think I see the flavour you're going for
yea, Quest for Pants was an instant favourite
 
It was silly, ridiculous even. But only to someone watching. For the people involved, it may have had elements of a farce, but it wasn't funny.
 
(can you actually rename it to Quest for Pants?)
 
4:36 PM
@BESW I ended the session kind of sad as a player
 
@Sohum Done.
@Problematic Yes, it was a strong moodswing. I liked it.
 
@BESW excellent
 
In Which Wil Quests for Pants?
 
"Farcical, not Funny"
I'm not sure how ethos aspects tend to be phrased
 
...it's not something we have much experience with.
 
4:38 PM
@Problematic yea, that fits better
 
My limited time in DFRPG comes closest; it gives cities a handful of aspects relating to Theme and Trouble.
 
pretty close, I guess. how do those tend to be phrased?
 
Decay and Corruption, Conflicting Identities, and On the Brink are Baltimore's Themes and Threat.
 
hmmm.
 
The Forest Is Real Life :D
 
4:42 PM
ooh, closer.
Remember, it's an aspect.
We want to be able to invoke it in our favor and against us, and use it to compel people.
 
in order to ... what, make situations matter?
 
That's how it mechanically influences the game, bringing us back to the ethos when we stray.
 
to remind us that even though this looks funny, we're to play it straight?
 
Something about being in the forest for a reason
 
Not so much to remind as to tempt.
The closer we're playing to the ethos, the more we can use the aspect to our advantage.
 
4:45 PM
"Both Masks"
as in the comedy/tragedy masks
mmm, not quite it
 
Ooh, that's coming from a good place though.
Remember, making an aspect doesn't mean it has to be a fully formed phrase at the start.
Begin by talking about the ideas.
The phrase will come out of that.
 
okay
 
So: comedy and tragedy hand in hand, not a game, real life.
Small things are big when it's your small thing.
 
funny things are serious when it's your funny thing
 
I'm looking up Midsummer Night's Dream quotes.
 
4:49 PM
hahah
"Domain of Melpomene and Thalia" :P
 
@BESW what's this about staves, now?
 
"It Still Matters"
sorry
trying to kill the habit, but my brain still keeps heading towards phrases
 
@BESW So, would I need to create my own character for a little introduction, or would you have one you would want me to use?
 
but yea: whatever it may look like on the outside, the stories we're telling matter to the people in them
Hey @C.Ross!
 
Oh, character creation first thing. The first session is partly to settle him into the world as a newcomer to the Forest.
 
4:53 PM
if I did end up GM'ing would it make sense to take a different section of the Forest, or an adjacent country for sake of continuity?
 
Bah, continuity is basically "what's in the narrative logs on the forum."
23 mins ago, by BESW
But since that setting is "Every forest in every fairy tale is this Forest," that setting is pretty fluid and copes well with player initiative.
22 mins ago, by BESW
I chose it because while its ethos is rather unique, the setting is very open. There's no sense of canon here. Even if we establish something as True, like "Wizards can't cast without their staves," you're free to come up with a wizard who comes from a different tradition.
I have... ideas... about what hasn't been seen yet, and I'm drawing from the novels that inspired the setting, but I'm not attached to anything that hasn't hit the pavement.
 
I was more thinking about sharing a setting to make it easy to move characters (based on their player's needs) back and forth
 
Hmm.
The Forest moves in mysterious ways, so it's not like there's a map we have to keep to.
Distances and directions are determined by how much the plot wants you to get to a place.
 
something playing with the normal duality between stories and real life?
 
I need to go to sleep, it's 3am.
Glad to have you two on board.
 
4:59 PM
glad to be around!
 
@C.Ross I think I don't understand what you mean yet, I'm afraid. Clarify and I'll come back later?
 
I'll ping you later for character development, then? Or should I just go off and make one on my own?
Right now I'm inclined to play an Adventurer Princess, Running from Responsibility
 
@BESW aye, will clarify
 
 
4 hours later…
9:08 PM
@Sohum I'd like to be part of the process, please. Adventurer Princess sounds fun, and very much in line with the setting, but she's going to need some specific goal to work toward.
 
Cat
9:25 PM
@BESW Hey!
How's your day/evening going?
 
Busy! Getting ready to take my dad to a neuropsych eval.
 
Cat
Oh my. Best of luck!
 
Thanks.
 
Cat
ttyl
 

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