03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

3:22 AM
@DavidCarlisle Coffins unhealthy in 2020? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/573514/…
@DavidCarlisle Shouldn't she be wearing a mask in a public area?

3 hours later…
6:07 AM
@DavidCarlisle Aaaw, spit! Knew I should have gone to Weston-super-Mare. :p

2 hours later…
7:52 AM
@cfr let me look (@JosephWright..)

quack

@cfr I can confirm it has changed, we will get back to you. I assume @UlrikeFischer is to blame.
@PauloCereda Brecwast

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda is longtable-man frightening you again?

@Skillmon hi mr. rabbit! <3

8:00 AM
@PauloCereda Hi, Mr. Duck! Thanks for the carrot!

@Skillmon ooh

@PauloCereda here, have one, too: <3

@Skillmon awwwwww <3

@DavidCarlisle I'll take a look

8:16 AM
@DavidCarlisle sometimes I think we should blame @UlrikeFischer less often.

@Skillmon oh, why?

@DavidCarlisle I don't know. Maybe my heart is just too soft :)

Sep 16 at 15:51, by Ulrike Fischer
@DavidCarlisle you should have pinged me with a blame;-)
2

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Oct 30 at 21:36, by Ulrike Fischer
@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz I'm quite addicted to blames. I worked hard on avoiding that the newcomers take them away from me.
2

8:30 AM
@UlrikeFischer sorry, I never intended to harm you :P

@Skillmon we could blame the author of commit feefe946f6f72e5686108660885d7479a0f8f2a7

@UlrikeFischer vvvv
[paulo@cambridge ~] $git ulrike usage: git blame [<options>] [<rev-opts>] [<rev>] [--] <file> git config --global alias.ulrike blame <3 must … not … link … to infinitely deeply nested “deja vu” comment … @PauloCereda it should also filter out all the commits not done by @UlrikeFischer. @HaraldHanche-Olsen please do, I was searching for it yesterday and didn't find it. @HaraldHanche-Olsen do it :) 8:32 AM @DavidCarlisle how do one find a commit by number on github? oh, heck … y'all talked me into it Jun 9 at 19:36, by Paulo Cereda 9 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda 12 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda 2 mins ago, by David Carlisle Jan 27 at 15:06, by Phelype Oleinik Jan 15 at 13:41, by David Carlisle Nov 15 '19 at 9:45, by David Carlisle Oct 28 at 22:50, by Phelype Oleinik Aug 1 at 16:26, by Phelype Oleinik Jul 3 at 9:43, by CarLaTeX yesterday, by David Carlisle Dec 12 '17 at 20:26, by Alan Munn 20 mins ago, by CarLaTeX Dec 26 '14 at 0:17, by Faheem Mitha I've got a feeling we had this discussion in this channel before. I'm getting a sense of deja vu. I blame @UlrikeFischer! @UlrikeFischer just use https://github.com/latex3/latex3/commit/<hash> ooh maybe that's how the pyramids were built @DavidCarlisle that passed through all of the test-suite, had review by 3 team members, and had only one very minor change to l3coffins. Seems reasonable. 8:36 AM @HaraldHanche-Olsen LOL @UlrikeFischer cd l3kernel then git log feefe @DavidCarlisle she asked on how this could be done in github.... @DavidCarlisle ^^ @Skillmon which I class as anything that reports: @PauloCereda LOL 8:38 AM $ git remote -vvv
origin  git@github.com:latex3/latex3.git (fetch)
origin  git@github.com:latex3/latex3.git (push)

8:50 AM
@DavidCarlisle hm, \linewidth is different in tl19 is was 90pt, now it is 360pt, and this affects lists.

@DavidCarlisle looks so. The coffin now only sets \hsize.

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Ah, right: of course I did an upload last night :)

@JosephWright naturally this is the reason! Bugs can only appear at midnight after an full moon upload.
6

@UlrikeFischer and by a duck :)

9:05 AM
@DavidCarlisle yet confirmed, if one reset \__coffin_set_vertical_aux: it works again.

@UlrikeFischer uh-oh, coffins

@egreg how would you fake (with xelatex) y if the font doesn't have the grave accent?

@UlrikeFischer use an acute instead: it doesn't really matter much which accent you use, it just shows willing that you haven't simply used ascii

@DavidCarlisle well I fear if the font hasn't the grave it won't have acute either (they used $\grave{\text{y}$ as a work around, and I was wondering if there exists something saner ...)

@UlrikeFischer Just use ỳ and assume the reader will read the codepoint from the source. lack of visual glyph is an over-rated problem?

9:24 AM
@PauloCereda coffins seem to be very en vogue this week :)

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas quite :)
@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas I have a suggestion for texdoc xcoffins :)

@DavidCarlisle can one extract the total width out of tabulary when it doesn't fill up the whole planed width? E.g. to get the right dots here:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tabulary}
\begin{document}
\begin{tabulary}{10cm}{CC}
blub & blub \\\hline
zzz  & zzz  \\\noalign{\hrule height \arrayrulewidth}
yyy  & yyy  \\\noalign{\noindent\cleaders \hbox to .44em{\hss.\hss}\hfill\kern0pt}
zzz  & zzz
\end{tabulary}
\end{document}

How to find the documentation for the kernel version of filecontents?
@PauloCereda yes!

@UlrikeFischer er yes it must have had it to hand when deciding not to force the width Ill look
@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas texdoc source2e

@DavidCarlisle thanks!

9:37 AM
@UlrikeFischer if you turn on debugging it shows Natural Width: \the\TY@tablewidth, so one might expect that using \hskip\TY@tablewidth in the leaders would do the right thing, but you'd be disappointed. I can look later...
@UlrikeFischer the width must be there somewhere but this works
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tabulary}

\begin{document}
\makeatletter
\begin{tabulary}{10cm}{CC}
blub & blub \\\hline
zzz  & zzz  \\\noalign{\hrule height \arrayrulewidth}
yyy  & yyy  \\\omit\span\omit\cleaders \hbox to .44em{\hss.\hss}\hfill\kern0pt\\
zzz  & zzz
\end{tabulary}
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle \hskip\dimexpr\TY@tablewidth+4\tabcolsep works too, the diagnosing seem to take out the column spaces.

@UlrikeFischer hmm I wonder if the column width calculations know that TY@tablewidth doesn't include tabcolsep :-)

9:52 AM
@DavidCarlisle you mean if there are more text in the columns? It works, I get a 10cm tabular in this case. So your math seems to be ok.

@UlrikeFischer obviously my math is OK, it says mathematician on my passport. If the math had been wrong here I would have blamed you.
I really can't remember how tabulary works at all, I should read the code one day....

@DavidCarlisle ;-). But if the tabular has the target width, \TY@tablewidth does fit, and one shouldn't add tabcolsep. One the whole the \omit\span\omit method is easier.

@UlrikeFischer it's a shame you can't use \multicolumn{num of columns}{...} but it is inconvenient to get rid of the \strut in that case.

@DavidCarlisle but then one would have to know the number of columns, which would be rather inconvenient too.

10:07 AM
@UlrikeFischer you need the number of columns, if there had been three you would need omit\span\omit\span\omit

@DavidCarlisle oh right. pity.

@UlrikeFischer \TY@count has the number of columns in at least some parts of the code Z \message{Col \the\TY@count: Initial=\the\wd\tw@\space}%

Been pondering for a week now why cross references for my custom environment were not working. I wondered if it might be my change to LuaLaTeX but I couldn't see any obvious reason. And then, just before I set out on a massive solution hunt it struck me. I wrote the first one out with \label and \caption reversed and then copy-pasted the environment into the document everywhere I used it #hazardsofcopypaste #embarrassing #noob

@Plergux we could have answered to check position of \label if you had just said Been pondering for a week now why cross references :-)

@Plergux /duck hug

10:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, I guess. :p But I was putting it off because of other things and it was just there, nagging me in the back of my brain. :p

@Plergux And that's why I prefer a key=value approach to captions and labels for custom environments.

@DavidCarlisle I'll remember to annoy you with stupid questions in the future. :p

@Skillmon Yes, it's come up on the team list (\label is ... problematic)

@PauloCereda /wooly hug
@Skillmon How does that work? (brain screams: YOU ARE NOT CHANGING THIS AGAIN NOW!) :P

@Plergux once a day for last thirty years, eg yesterday:
\label{fig:A} \caption{Some text.} label has to be in or after caption, not before. — David Carlisle 16 hours ago

10:17 AM
@DavidCarlisle o.O

@Plergux don't change it now, but perhaps in the future. If you're using a custom environment for your floats (as I did for tables in my bachelor's and master's thesis), you can set up that environment to have a key=value interface in which you can specify loads of things, including caption=This is my cool table, label=tab:cool, for the key=value parser the order of those keys doesn't matter, it is all handled later and used in the correct order.

@Skillmon civilised people write their documents in xml with ids in attributes <section id="zzz" and only convert to tex when they need to typeset.

@Skillmon A la ConTeXt, indeed

@Plergux then I can globally configure the appearance of all my tables, because I can set the defaults. (though the code how I wrote it for my thesis template, is quite static to a base-style of tables, a style that isn't what I'd have used myself...)

@Skillmon No, I won't :p But I will certainly keep the key=value thing in mind. After I hand it in I want to pad it out a bit and add things back in that my advisor told me to cut and make proper book of it. :p

10:21 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh it's like % for egreg :)

@DavidCarlisle Who are you, JF?

@JosephWright ha

@JosephWright I don't think I have written a document in \  and { syntax for 10 years.

@Plergux and @Skillmon talking about stuff ^^

@Plergux you can take a look if you want: gitlass.de/jonathan/MRTbundle/src/branch/master/MRTtab/… documentation is in the file gitlass.de/jonathan/MRTbundle/src/branch/master/Doc/… (chapter 6, MRTtab)

10:23 AM
@DavidCarlisle Well, I've never been civilised. Though I've been living in urbanity for over twenty years now I'm still just sveitapakk :p
@PauloCereda :D

@Skillmon ooh a secret repo

@Skillmon Oooh! Thanks :)

@DavidCarlisle Sure :)

@Skillmon well adding longer text through keyval can be a bit of a pain.

@DavidCarlisle I was just saying to someone else about what the 'ideal' syntax is for most people to write in; my feeling is XML is a bit much, but what do I know

10:24 AM
@JosephWright you need a proper editor

@DavidCarlisle vim
@DavidCarlisle it's because you catcoded \ to j :)

@DavidCarlisle Wasn't exactly my point ... I was thinking more of the great majority of people for whom a word process can be challenging enough

@PauloCereda can you get context sensitive validation of partial documents to a schema and completion for element and attribute names to match the schema grammar in vim?
@PauloCereda doesn't everyone? (especially at this time of year)

@DavidCarlisle oh no, XML /runs

@PauloCereda it's not secret. It's just all unpublished code that'll never go to CTAN (in that form) as I absolutely don't understand why every little thesis template should go into TeX Live. There are one or two things contained which might really be interesting to a bigger number of people (MRTtab with quite a few changes to make it more versatile in styles, and MRTsfacc), but the rest is just for myself and the few poor students who want to write their thesis in LaTeX.
3

10:28 AM
@JosephWright yes I know and the XML mantra of every error should be a fatal error didn't exactly cause xml to sweep aside all other document formats in the way that was planned in 1998

@Skillmon quite
@DavidCarlisle ooh xii

And MRTfonts is a mess, currently. It works for pdfLaTeX, but I completely broke it for Xe/LuaTeX. MRTif has a few interesting bits, but it's been more a playground for me than a serious package.

2
@DavidCarlisle ^^ As the magi decided to bring gold, frankincense and myrrh, I went for XML :)

@PauloCereda "WHat did you bring that for?! It might bite him!" :p

@Plergux uh oh

10:33 AM
Since I've got you here, and I can't seem to see it in the fontspec manual, how do I change one page to a different font and font size?

@Plergux a specific, easy to hook into page (like the titlepage) or an arbitrary page?
however, got to go for now. Until later!

@Plergux You can set a new font: \newfontface{\noto}{NotoSans Nerd Font}, then {\noto quack in Noto Sans}
@Skillmon see ya, mr. rabbit! Have a lovely day!
hmmm tofu

@Plergux as @Skillmon says this is easy for pages with forced breaks like a titlepage. Changing fonts at an automatic page break is ... hard (verging on not possible)

@DavidCarlisle Well, it's for the title page which has to be in Arial so I should manage with @PauloCereda's suggestion, or what?

@Plergux then inside the title page something like \fontspec{Arial} could work.

10:39 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ok, and then it should "shut off" at the pagebreak?

@Plergux how are you creating the titlepage? With maketitle or with titlepage environment?

@Plergux fonts are always local settings so they are scoped by any environment. so the setting is local to \begin{titlepage}..\end{titlepage} because it is an environment, not because it is related to a forced page break or two.

@UlrikeFischer Well, it's just a regular page atm. I suppose I should use a titlepage environment since it's available.
@DavidCarlisle Ah, ok.

@Plergux the other approach is simply not to believe whoever said you had to use Arial on the titlepage. (Often people don't mean Arial when they say that, they mean, "Arial-or-Helvetica", or "sans-serif" or "any font that doesn't look like Times Roman" or ....

@DavidCarlisle Heh heh heh... Well, I'm certainly not using Times New Roman for the main text, so I suppose that I can give them what they ask for on one page. :p Using \fontspec{Arial} inside a titlepage environment worked perfectly :) Now I just have to convince them to allow me to put a background on the cover :p

10:59 AM
@Plergux ooh a sheep

@PauloCereda heh heh heh... not quite :p
4

@Plergux wow, nice! Klimt-style multi-colored exploding sheep! (No, really, I like it).

11:18 AM
@Plergux Oh, you have an actual family name? I know only one other Icelandic person with a family name (Briem).

@Plergux gorgeous!

@Rmano Thank you :D And because it's created with random, every time it's rendered it's different. :p

@Plergux you mean each time you fail and have to re-submit you get a new cover? Clearly you are planning ahead!

Oct 31 at 11:16, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I do actually. There's not many of us cause you're not allowed to take up new ones any more (like some people did, e.g. Halldór Laxness), but if your parents have one you can use it. And since my father has it registered (from the Danish line of his family) I can use it. There is also an English surname, Long, in the family line but those went a different way :p
@PauloCereda Thank you :D

11:29 AM
Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

@DavidCarlisle That is exactly what it's for :p

2 days ago, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle oh

3 hours ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen
must … not … link … to infinitely deeply nested “deja vu” comment …

@DavidCarlisle you are in a maze of twisty passages, all looking the same

ooh

11:42 AM
@Plergux Interesting. I hadn't seen it used in combination with a patronymic before, though. Is that common practice?

@PauloCereda where do these critters come from?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen they are from a web cartoon named "Foxes in love": foxes-in-love.tumblr.com/ :)

@PauloCereda I'm afraid that doesn't increment your “ooh” count, though …

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh

11:49 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen No, I don't think so. There are few who have an actual family name, and some who want to use the family name (like Beck, or Long) but can't show a direct link to someone who has it registered as a family name resort to using it as a middle name. So I could have been Þórhalla Beck Guðmundsdóttir if I'd taken it up as a given name instead of a family name.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Also, I think some of them might be registered in the National registry as having a patronym as well as a family name, even if they only use the family name.

@Plergux Interesting how naming customs change. A few generations before my great-grandfather, my ancestors were alternately named Greger Olsen and Ole Gregersen. Then at some point patronymics where out, and we were stuck with the Olsen name. Until my great-grandfather Oscar Olsen married a woman called Othilie Hanche. And the rest, as they say, is history.

12:08 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yeah, we stuck with the patronymics for some reason. :p Oh, and don't get me started with people who always name their children the same things! It's a little bit better when you have patronymics, but in my family there are like six generations of Gunnar Gunnarsson and Jón Jónsson. shudder

UK people: chattyfeet.com

@Plergux By now, I imagine it's a matter of national pride, just like the aversion to importing foreign words without at least adapting them so they fit in better with your language. Not that I think that is a bad thing!

12:35 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen It is. But some times it goes a little far. For example for a period of time immigrants were required to take up a completely Icelandic name, complete with patronymic, but they've stopped doing that now.

12:52 PM
4 hours ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen
Jun 9 at 19:36, by Paulo Cereda
9 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
12 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
2 mins ago, by David Carlisle
Jan 27 at 15:06, by Phelype Oleinik
Jan 15 at 13:41, by David Carlisle
Nov 15 '19 at 9:45, by David Carlisle
Oct 28 at 22:50, by Phelype Oleinik
Aug 1 at 16:26, by Phelype Oleinik
Jul 3 at 9:43, by CarLaTeX
yesterday, by David Carlisle
Dec 12 '17 at 20:26, by Alan Munn
20 mins ago, by CarLaTeX
Dec 26 '14 at 0:17, by Faheem Mitha
I've got a feeling we had this discussion in this channel before. I'm getting a sense of deja vu.
I like the 20mins ago for a message sent in 2017. Gives a timelord-esque vibe.

@PauloCereda Ohhh! Brian Sox!

@Plergux Oh, is Jonathan Islandic enough?
(not being Islandic at all...)

1:30 PM

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas LOL
@Skillmon LOL
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh my name is said to be common in Sweden

@Skillmon I can't even see that on my 13 inch laptop screen. But on a (much) bigger monitor, I can.

@Skillmon Weeell, I'm not so sure that you'd get away with "Jonathan". "Jónatan" on the other hand.... :p
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah, I was gonna say that page was full of crap until I scrolled down. :p

@Plergux Needs more accents!

1:45 PM
@PauloCereda @HaraldHanche-Olsen, you shall from now on be Páll and Haraldur. :p (LOL, my brain immediately went to George and Harold from Captain Underpants, never getting that out of my brain now XD)

@Plergux Then I'm Jónatan Friedemannsson

@Skillmon Well, if you want it completely Icelandic I would say Jónatan Friðmannsson :p

@Plergux of course, we also need strange-d instead of the normal one :)
@Plergux could we also place an accent or something on one or two a's?

@Plergux ooh
@Plergux ooh a partial derivative rabbit

@Plergux (honest question, are there accented forms of a's in Iselandic?)

1:49 PM
@Skillmon Yes, Paulo > Páll :)

@Plergux could I then be Jónatán Frieðemánnsson?
(I somehow like the double-n double-s from that)

@Skillmon :)

@Skillmon You could :) But since they aren't the standard here you'd have to deal with the Icelandic Naming Committee if you wanted to take them up here. :p

@Plergux So weird: here in the UK it's 'will the registrar write it down' :)

@JosephWright LOL, you mean as in 'can the registrar spell it right' ? :p

1:54 PM
@Plergux I think you can write it down for them, but they have to copy it into the official register (mandated ink and all that)

@JosephWright Ooooh! I just went to the National Registry and filled out a form. :p I was quite prepared for a fuss but I escaped unscathed. :p
@PauloCereda What is your fathers name? :p

@JosephWright In Germany we have some strange rules as well, which are as much enforced as the registrar has bad temper... My aunt wasn't allowed to name her son Mika, as the registrar thought this was not a clear boy's name, so he had to get two given names, Mika and another one which is clearly a boy's name (I forgot the second name, tbh., but he hates to be called by his second name, so that's not the worst thing to forget)

@Plergux My patronymic would create some trouble in Iceland, I think: My father was named Ola. Apparently, Óla is a female name in Iceland, though a male name in the Føroyar. So I could be Haraldur Ólasson there, I suppose.

@Plergux Cereda :)

@PauloCereda as first name?

2:06 PM
@Plergux BTW, what happens in Iceland if the father is unknown? Can you have a matronymic instead?

Was in U.K. Le Guin's "the dispossessed" that they gave the name at random? With the Clarke idea to name the parliament at random ("it can't go worse than now") are a couple of my often-cited SF fun facts

@UlrikeFischer oopsie... sorry, you meant first name. :) My dad's name is a strange one for Brazilian standards... it's Ederval

@PauloCereda Páll Edervalsson almost sounds Icelandic to my ears.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oooh
Will I be able to hold the Mjölnir thingy?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, you could always first change it to the Icelandic variant and be Ólason, and there are some names that are unconventional names that don't conform to what you would expect, such as Ilmur (scent, masc.) being a womans name. You'd have to be prepared to explain your name alot but it would work, I think :p

2:09 PM
@PauloCereda No, that's for Þórr.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes. You can :)

Arrrrr ahoy matey, cleave him to the brisket!
Oh wait, that's pirate
@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh

@HaraldHanche-Olsen It does. :) If you want to make it more Icelandic you could say he was Eðvaldsson, though I don't think that's the same name. :p

@HaraldHanche-Olsen He might be worthy ....

@PauloCereda (Actually, it's Þór in Icelandic. Þórr is Old Norse.)

2:13 PM
@Plergux I have lot of fun here --- I have relatives and friends named Andrea and Rosario in Italy (both males) and in Spain (both females).

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Fun fact, during the second world war the US soldiers were very popular among the Icelandic female population and there was a rather large increase in children who were registered as Hermannsson. Hermann is a totally legit Icelandic name, but it also means "soldier" :p
@Rmano I think Icelandic instinct would go for female for the former (female names very often end with -a) and male for the second (along the lines of Romeo and Leo).

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh
@JosephWright ooh

@HaraldHanche-Olsen no worries, I cannot even pronounce that thingy. :)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen There is one Þórr registered in the National Registry :p
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I would have suspected hipsters but he's born in 1965 :p

2:19 PM
I suddenly feel the urge of listening to the Ride of Valkyries

@Plergux yes, that is the norm for Italian and Spanish too, but it's fun that the exceptions tend to go the opposite way

@Rmano :) I just remember my (Belgian) French teacher laughing about half the male population of France being named Maria :p

@PauloCereda you mean this one? vimeo.com/337320777

@UlrikeFischer YES!

@Plergux here is used a lot for composition. María Jesús is female (often contracted to Chus) and Jesús María is male (but also sometimes contracted to Chus, you bet). Names and surnames in Spain can get fun.

2:25 PM
@UlrikeFischer ^^ @Skillmon Mr. Rabbit is in the audience!!!!!!!!
@Rmano e Jose? :)
(as in Jesús, María e Jose)

@PauloCereda José is male, as José Maria

@Rmano I meant the holy family. :) Yes, in Portuguese too. :)
@Rmano and there's Josemaria too, as in Escrivá. :)

Yep, what I said, fun 😀

@Rmano do you know Manuel from Fawlty Towers? :)

@Plergux I think the original Þórr was born quite a bit earlier.

2:34 PM
@PauloCereda wow, it's been a while since then...

@Rmano :D
@PauloCereda Si???
@HaraldHanche-Olsen :D Quite possibly :p (some say in Kiev :p)

@Plergux LOL don't mind him, he is from Barcelona

@Plergux like "Heer" (army) + "Mann"?

@Skillmon Yup :)

@PauloCereda +1 for the nice free hand circle :)

2:37 PM
@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas "there was an attempt" :D

@Plergux Heh, soldiers … In Norway, a couple centuries or so ago, there was quite a harsh penalty for impregnating a woman other than your wife. But for soldiers, no penalty at all. So soldiers could make some good money claiming to be the father, to get the real father off the hook. No doubt they sired a few of their own, too.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen :D It's like in the song, The Gentleman Soldier: "Two wives are allowed in the army (but one's too many for me!)" :p

@DavidCarlisle Should I drop the begin-document stuff in l3coffins?

Where can I hire such soldiers? :-)

@PauloCereda ...no :-(

2:42 PM
@Rmano oh
@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ^^ ooh more coffins

Hey, another linguist on board!

@StefanKottwitz LOL, you been busy? :p

@JosephWright I fear if you fix the test so it works then you hit top level atbegindocument issues so just not doing it at all would simplify it, probably:-)

@Plergux In the past! And who knows about the future too.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Jeg var ensom alene

2:45 PM
@PauloCereda ... and the nice DPC colour scheme :)

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh :D

@PauloCereda I feel hunted by coffins :)

Oct 29 at 20:47, by barbara beeton
@Skillmon -- Polyglot is not the same as linguist. @DavidCarlisle's degree is in math.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas same :)
2 hours ago, by Skillmon
4 hours ago, by Harald Hanche-Olsen
Jun 9 at 19:36, by Paulo Cereda
9 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
12 secs ago, by Paulo Cereda
2 mins ago, by David Carlisle
Jan 27 at 15:06, by Phelype Oleinik
Jan 15 at 13:41, by David Carlisle
Nov 15 '19 at 9:45, by David Carlisle
Oct 28 at 22:50, by Phelype Oleinik
Aug 1 at 16:26, by Phelype Oleinik
Jul 3 at 9:43, by CarLaTeX
yesterday, by David Carlisle
Dec 12 '17 at 20:26, by Alan Munn
20 mins ago, by CarLaTeX
Dec 26 '14 at 0:17, by Faheem Mitha
I've got a feeling we had this discussion in this channel before. I'm getting a sense of deja vu.

@StefanKottwitz :D Well, not much room for that kind of busy in the times of Covid. :p

2:47 PM
@PauloCereda Help! What have I wrought today? Is there no end to it?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, it's got a few more vu's go go until it goes out of the bounding box. :p

@DavidCarlisle I've changed the test and dropped one \AtBeginDocument

@JosephWright ok thanks, just saw the rule diff checkin as well

@Plergux It's already way out of its box on my small screen. As a result, it is at least three screenfuls tall.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah, I see. It's only about the half way across mine on my laptop. But then again I've got a fairly high resolution to have room for my seventy two tabs in the browser and twenty two app icons in the taskbar. :p

2:51 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh <3

@Plergux how very German of you, to build a word from two others :P

@Skillmon Heh heh heh... oh you don't know the half of it. We are obsessed with compounds. You could pretty much smush anything together and any Icelander would go "Yeah? And?" :p

@Skillmon This is something the Scandinavian languages, too, have in common with German. For a simple example: Høyesterettsdommer = Supreme court judge.

@Plergux @HaraldHanche-Olsen I was aware of it, it's just that, in this chat, there seems to be an agreement that Germans don't use the spacebar that often.

3:01 PM
@Skillmon Spacebar? Is that where astronauts go for a drink?
5

@HaraldHanche-Olsen exactly that!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen (actually I meant that elongated key on your keyboard that, if you press it, inserts these weird distances between the letters)

@DavidCarlisle A few issues ...

@PauloCereda oooooooooh.....
@Skillmon Thewhatnow? :p

3:25 PM
@JosephWright just adding a space? github.com/latex3/latex3/commit/…

@JosephWright Who is the webmaster at www.latex-project.org?
@JosephWright I found a few broken links :(

@PabloGonzálezL Frank mostly (if you mean where does email go to, but any of us can fix stuff, or break stuff)

@DavidCarlisle Great...I have a list :)
PAGE: https://www.latex-project.org/news/2004/03/22/tlc2-table-of-contents-available/
LINK TEXT: PDF file containing the toc, the tables of figures and tables as well as the book’s preface

PAGE: https://www.latex-project.org/news/2004/05/05/tlc2-appeared-more-extracts-available/

PAGE: https://www.latex-project.org/news/2011/10/14/tugboat-paper-on-lppl-history/
@DavidCarlisle I remembered, I have another request for texfaq.org , but, I think an extension of the one I already did...many of the references within the same site point using http ...that "bothers" mobile browsers. Can you modify, at least, those that point directly to texfaq.org?

@PabloGonzálezL hmm except those ones as I can't remember how they are supposed to work, the pdf are not in the github staging and are supposed to appear by magic in the public site... I'll pass it on...
@PabloGonzálezL ?

@DavidCarlisle Some references use http and others https
@DavidCarlisle From my computer it's not a problem, but from my cell phone or a tablet some links show a warning ...I know you can change your browser, but, Google dominates the mobile world :(

3:37 PM
@PabloGonzálezL oh I misread. There are https pages linking to http? that would be bad, let me see...
@PabloGonzálezL (@JosephWright) hmm on texfaq.org/about.html there is a link to texfaq.org/faq-latex3 (https) but that redirects to a http: address which isn't great but may not be easily modifiable as it comes from the jekyll redirect plugin but on site we should be able to use "real" addresses and not rely on redirects. Do you have an example of a bad link?

@DavidCarlisle In my mobile phone this link (tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=LaTeX3) gave a warning
@DavidCarlisle n general those that start with 'http' show a warning on the top bar, those that still contain the word 'cgi' show a safety warning (I haven't checked all of them)

@PabloGonzálezL yes that's the even worse case. https isn't (currently) supported at tex.ac.uk at all so you get a security violation on the certificate in firefox I have to change the location by hand to http:// to proceed. But there should only be one cgi-bin link in a paragraph that says not to use that form.
@PabloGonzálezL they are a bit hard to find as there are no http: in the markdown source (to this site) they are cases where the url doesn't match the filename by case and it has gone through the redirect plugin.

3:56 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, it's quite a problem, but, I think I see a pattern that can simplify things a bit...the links pointing to texfaq.org should all start with https, just like the ones pointing to tug.org, maybe you can start there (at least I see a regex)
@DavidCarlisle And from my point of view, this
For compatibility with exiting references to the FAQ, the form
https://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=LaTeX3
may also be used, but this again relies on the client supporting JavaScript in the new hosting arrangement and is just intended to support existing references that link to the site.

Opinion: in a Dutch name like van Gogh, you capitalize at the beginning of a sentence. What about as the first word of a section heading?

@DavidCarlisle I don't think it is necessary to write it, it is transparent to the user, not knowing it directly does not affect the visitor :)

@AlanMunn that's no opinion. That's a question! And you call yourself a linguist? :)
@AlanMunn I'd capitalize.

@Skillmon Yes, one who knows about pragmatics too. ;)
@Skillmon It looks weird. I think it's because of the section number, so the name isn't really "initial".

@AlanMunn But the section number is not part (of the "sentence") of the title.

4:05 PM
@DavidCarlisle I was annoyed

@PabloGonzálezL the ones going to texfag.org are all relative <a href="FAQ-foo" so if they are changing from https to http there is a "feature" in teh jekyll processing

@JosephWright I totally understand you!

4:18 PM
@AlanMunn I would simply avoid putting "van Gogh" anywhere I had to make that decision. :p

@Plergux this. :)
@Plergux "The bloke who cut his ear off"
"The guy from Don McLean's song"

@PauloCereda lol, yeah.
@PauloCereda Which Don McLean song would that be again?

@Plergux Vincent, I guess (or "Starry starry night")

Hello @DavidCarlisle

I would be grateful if you could give your thoughts on why the first footer unexpectedly moved here https://tex.stackexchange.com/q/573380/2288

@PauloCereda Ah of course! One only ever hears American Pie. :p

4:28 PM
Hi @PauloCereda

@Diaa fire at wll. :)
@Plergux ooh the day the music died
WE STARTED SINGING
ooh pie

@PauloCereda heh heh heh... lemon merengue :p or blueberry :p

@PauloCereda mind blown

@Diaa no idea, I have never used that class though

4:31 PM
Thanks

Here https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/525606/2288, I have a problem:

When the folder is empty of any file except <main file>.tex and I delete that part of looking for changes in subfolders, I got an error message saying that there is an error running flag = found ('log','(Undefined control sequence|Error)') || flag; due to the missing *.log file.
@DavidCarlisle Thanks for the consideration :)

@DavidCarlisle heavens no

@PauloCereda also, the rules you mentioned here tex.stackexchange.com/questions/411538/… I don't know how to use them :)

@DavidCarlisle Never seen it.

@Diaa flag = (!missing('log') && found ('log','(Undefined control sequence|Error)')) || flag (this probably solves the error)

4:37 PM
@Plergux don't worry too much about that.

@DavidCarlisle every time I see \AtBeginDocument ...

to double check, you mean that the last two lines should be

% arara: --> flag = (!missing('log') && found ('log','(Undefined control sequence|Error)') || flag;
% arara: --> return flag

@Diaa I guess so, untested. :)

@DavidCarlisle I don't :p This is more my style :p youtube.com/watch?v=rNsP8SIRGIs

@Plergux quite an achievement to reject american pie and then move down the cultural scale:-)

4:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oh, I'll go all the way down to the Bottom and stay there quite happily :p

@Plergux you may find there is no bottom

@Diaa for each identifier in the rule, it means one potential parameter in the directive...

@Diaa why are you resetting the page size so often, it is hardly surprising that the page gets confused. This might be enough but you should need to call \geometry at most once.
%\AtBeginDocument{
%}

@Plergux /insert minions' quote: BOTTOM /giggles

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooooh! you mean there might be something even more puerile down there somewhere?
@PauloCereda LOL

4:51 PM
@Diaa these two rules are yet to be documented in our new manual... I thought I did, but it's in our internal TODO.

@UlrikeFischer ^^^ happier?

@DavidCarlisle Imho \AtBeginDocument is needed because the header \headerContents contains code which breaks in the preamble (tcolorbox). But I'm not sure I want to debug this class. I found this comment:
% Bugfix: We changed \@setheadheight and \@setfootheight to fix a bug
% that was introduced by the bugfix in version 2.306beta, 2009/03/28:
% If the second page has a different \textheight (because of a change
% in either headheight or footheight between pages 1 and 2), then page
% 2 would use the \textheight of page 1.  Pages 3 and beyond would get
% the correct \textheight.  The original version of this set \@colroom
% and \vsize to the new \textheight, but that had a bug in that if a
% float appeared at the top of a page, there would be no notice taken
That it quite enough to confuse more than the page ;-)

@Plergux :D

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