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4:00 PM
x^t A x was right
my vectors are column vectors
 
Makes sense. That gives you a quadratic, uh, thingy
 
damn I wrote it wrong
 
yep @Akiva
loool
i didnt notice
 
Yeah he wrote $xA^\top x$ I thought
@BalarkaSen So continue
 
what is happening in here
 
4:01 PM
5 mins ago, by Balarka Sen
@Akiva learn symplectic geometry with me dawg
 
@Akiva So a symplectic vector space is kinda like that, but your symmetric billinear form is now an antisymmetric billinear form (a 2-form). The right condition to replace "positive-definite" is non-degeneracy; f(u, v) = 0 for all u iff v = 0
 
ah symplecto-boiz
 
yeppity yep
 
@Eric can I bug you with a couple of functional analysis questions?
 
Antisymmetric. Like a $\wedge$ type of dealy
So what's the notation for it?
 
4:02 PM
f(u, v) = -f(v, u). Yeah it's a 2-form
$\omega \in \Lambda^2(V)$
 
i am in lecture so i will be on low brain power but go ahead @Alessandro
 
@BalarkaSen And the output of this is the reals (or some other field)?
 
First of all a sanity check, a compact operator between Banach spaces cannot be surjective, right? Because otherwise by the open mapping theorem we'd get an open precompact set in the codomain and that can't happen
 
Reals, reals. All real vector spaces
 
Arright, no fakery going on here
 
4:04 PM
you are correct you would get fuckery
 
no fuggs
no algebraic fugging
 
Does there exist a nowhere continuous function on a non-zero set regarding the lebesgue measure?
 
if everything is infinite dimensional* - trivial caveat
 
if i have gradient for function $f(x,y)$ $$ \nabla f(x,y)=\begin{bmatrix} \frac{\delta}{\delta x} \\ \frac{\delta}{\delta y} \end{bmatrix} $$ so for example vector $ \hat{a} =\nabla f(x_0,y_0)$ points to the direction of largest increase of function $f(x,y)$ at point $(x_0,y_0)$. Now if i want to find out the largest decrease in $f(x,y)$ we can call this vector $\hat{b}$ is it just $\hat{b}= -\nabla f(x_0,y_0) $ we make both components negative ? that would flip vector in negative direction ?
but is inverse of $\hat{a}$=decreasing direction ? probably not ?
 
@EricSilva right, of course
 
4:06 PM
@quallenjäger 1 if rational, 0 otherwise?
 
Well, it is continuous on the set of irrationals
 
You mean, like, something that can't be "fixed" by changing the values of the function on a null set?
 
non continuity occurs only on the null set.
 
@quallenjäger No, it's discontinuous everywhere
Unless you mean the restriction to the irrationals, I guess
 
I need the nowhere discontinuity on a non nullset with respect to the lebesgue measure.
 
4:08 PM
@Akiva The point of analogy of "positive definiteness" and "non-degeneracy" is the following. Suppose $(V, \langle - , - \rangle)$ is a (finite dim) inner product space; then the map $f : V \to V^*$ given by $f(x) = \langle x, - \rangle$ is an isomorphism. If $(V, \omega)$ is a symplectic vector space, similarly the map $f : V \to V^*$ given by $f(x) = \omega(x,-)$ is an isomorphism
 
This is clearly not the case as the non-nullset is the irrationals and it is constant 0
 
So, you want that the every restriction to a non-null set be everywhere discontinuous
 
exactly
 
I'm not familiar with measure theory. Is a null set a set with measure 0?
 
4:09 PM
Hmmmm that would interesting in a probability sense
 
For every $\epsilon$, there exists an open set containing it with total length less than $\epsilon$
 
there's probably a way to nuke this problem using a compact embedding theorem
 
(which is quite counterintuitive for $\Bbb Q$)
 
@EricSilva How do you mean?
 
@BalarkaSen Arright. And do we only care about infinite-dimensional thingies?
 
4:11 PM
 
@AkivaWeinberger Finite-dimensional, you mean
I do
 
The problem arises from the fact that I want to disprove the following statement:
 
can someone explain why $v(N) = \mu(N) = 0$ ?
 
I imagine for finite spaces this corresponds to $x^\top Ax$ where $A$ is antisymmetric
 
Every lipschitz continuous function has almost everywhere continuous derivative.
 
4:12 PM
That's right
 
$v(N) = 0$ is trivial, but why $\mu(N) = 0$ ?
 
Well, really, write $x^t A y$
$\omega(x, y)= x^t A y$
$A$ is antisymmetric and of full rank
 
If I can find a nowhere continuous $g(x)$ with $|g(x)| \leq M$ and consider $f(y)=\int_0^y g(x) d\mu(x)$
 
"Full of rank"?
Oh, the nondegeneracy thing
 
Then $f(y)$ is lipschitz continuous but its derivative is nowhere continuous
 
4:14 PM
@Akiva Yep
 
If $y\ne0$ then exists $x$ such that $x^\top Ay\ne0$
 
@Liad Again, I'll add that I don't know measure theory. But here's a complete guess: isn't it because you have that $\nu(N) = 0$ and since it's a sum of two other measures, the other two measures must be $0$ as well because measures are nonnegative?
 
or whatever you wrote
 
In fact you can change basis so that $A = [O, -I; I, O]$
 
@quallenjäger lipschitz functions are in fact $C^{1}$ outside of a set of arbitrarily small measure
 
4:15 PM
Cool. Weird
 
Thats also what I suggested, but my professor are not the same opinion
 
Kinda is. It's interesting to study subspaces of a symplectic vector space
 
So is that the "standard", uh
 
@EricSilva I mean, it is bounded a.e. and by darboux theorem, it has to be continuous
 
what's this called? It's not an inner product
 
4:15 PM
this is a well known fact from geometric measure theory
 
@Clarinetist thanks for the help :) $v(N) =0$ is really trivial , but we have that $\pi$ is a sum of 2 measures , not $v$ . so what do you mean?
 
Morning
 
@Akiva Symplectic form :)
Yes, that's the standard dude
 
@Liad Eh, just ignore anything I'm saying. Again, I don't know measure theory. I'm just guessing. Sorry.
 
@EricSilva Any proof?
 
4:16 PM
look up corollaries of whitney extension theorem
 
Mnirnog
 
@Clarinetist that's fine, thanks
 
Oh, and, notice that symplectic vector spaces are automatically even dimensional
 
it's not easy enough to write it in chat
 
@BalarkaSen Why? Can you not get nondegeneracy otherwise?
 
4:17 PM
but i dont think your original question really makes sense
$C^{1}$-a.e. isn't really a coherent concept
 
@EricSilva how do you mean that?
 
well ok i guess you mean, $C^{1}$ on a set that's co-null, which makes sense
 
sees "Symplectic" on chat woooooooooooooooosh
 
but yeah the famous theorem is that any lipschitz function is equal to a $C^{1}$ function on a set whose complement has measure as small as you want
 
@Akiva There are no odd dimensional full rank antisymmetric matrices, yeah. It's a nice exercise to prove it.
 
4:19 PM
co-null?
 
I don't know if you can get to 0 because there are convergence issues to worry about
complement of a null set
 
@BalarkaSen I don't actually see why full rank is the same as nondegeneracy
 
Ok, you mean I have to consider a version of the lipschitz function?
 
but whatever, I'll believe it
 
@EricSilva Where can I read this kind of stuff?
 
4:22 PM
uhhh it would be in any book on GMT but all the books suck so I dont know what to tell you
 
Haha :D Can you give one which sucks the least
 
Greenwich Mean Time?
 
@AkivaWeinberger lol sure
 
guys send some help
 
@quallenjäger uhhhh frank morgan has a nice book that mentions this theorem but doesnt prove it
all the books i know that prove it suuuuuuck
 
4:23 PM
Not to be confused with IST, which is math
Or NSA
 
@EricSilva Back to my very original question. How can I see that this kind of counterexample won't work?
 
@Tuki My helicopter's ten minutes away
 
i.e. the $g(x)$ cannot exist
 
well i dont know if it wont work
 
@AkivaWeinberger ok
 
4:24 PM
what im trying to say is that the counter would have to be very hard
 
do I need geometric measure theoretical argument to nuke this down.
 
if there is one
 
More seriously– What do you want help with
 
Why? I thought the theorem about lipschitz function is right?
 
gradient
 
4:25 PM
@BalarkaSen So where were we
 
So there should be not able to counter it.
 
@quallenjäger If you post this as a question, let me know (post the link up), and I'll upvote it
 
yes but the theorem doesnt guarantee that you can get $C^{1}$ on a co-null set
 
@Clarinetist Thanks
 
How do you link old chat message ?
 
4:26 PM
just you can get $C^{1}$ on a set which is arbitrarily close to being co-null
 
@EricSilva Right. Thanks
 
but the jump from $\varepsilon \to 0$ is nonobvious
 
@AkivaWeinberger i forgot
maybe i was going to talk about subspaces of symplectic vector spaces?
 
I will post this later when I am home
 
Like this?
@Tuki
Mouse over a message, an arrow should appear by its left, click on it
 
4:27 PM
the point of my comment was to indicate that any counter would have to be very sharp
 
coisotropic spaces are nice.
 
can we discuss programming stuff here?
 
Sure, but I don't know how helpful we could be @DelMonte
 
As with all bilinear forms you can discuss the orthogonal complement of a subspace with respect to the form.
 
right
but complements are ... weird in the symplectic world
 
4:29 PM
Yes. Because it's not symmetric.
 
orthocomplement of a line contains that line and orthocomplement of a hyperplane is contained in it
True
 
@EricSilva I see, I will include it in my question.
 
Coisotropic spaces are those subspaces which contain their orthogonal complements with respect to the symplectic form.
 
@BalarkaSen I think Physics has a use for that fact: it’s why Dirac needed to go to 4-by-4 matrices to get the desired Clifford algebra rep
And from that you get that antielectron states ie positrons should exist
 
Isotropic spaces are those subspaces of a symplectic vector space where the restriction of $\omega$ is 0.
Isotropic means something like "same in all directions".
 
4:33 PM
isotropic and coisotropic spaces are complements of each other
 
So relative to $\omega$, isotropic subspaces are the same in all directions.
 
i parsed it badly but yeah
 
@anakhronizein That's a nice intuition
 
What type of programming, @DelMonte?
 
4:34 PM
@skullpatrol: Have you seen this?
-7
Q: Why are my answers being quietly deleted?

George ChenIn the past month or two, the following answers are being quietly deleted two or three at a time without any explanation. I have spent significant amount of time and effort on these answers; I think I deserve some explanation. I do refer to these answers from other forums once in a while; they a...

 
nope
 
What's nice about isotropic spaces is that they have a delightful bound on their dimension.
 
A weird question "Prove aliens don't exist by pythogoras theorem."
 
It's less than or equal to half that of the vector space.
 
True
 
4:35 PM
(Dirac needed four Hermitian matrices which squared to the identity but which mutually anti-commuted.)
 
how to connect aliens and Pythagoras theorem?
 
(When it's equal it's a Lagrangian subspace)
 
@AbhasKumarSinha aliens — Pythagoras’s Theorem
 
@Semiclassical for what
 
There, connected
 
4:37 PM
@AbhasKumarSinha ????
Strange
 
@EricSilva to get a version of the Schrodinger equation which made sense for relativistic electrons
 
I've saw those questions being asked over internet several times
 
oh that's dope
 
4:37 PM
Actually, I vaguely remember someone who wanted to draw a huge picture of the Pythagorean theorem (the triangle with the squares on the sides) in the middle of the wilderness
 
heheheh @AkivaWeinberger
 
with the idea that aliens looking at us through telescopes would see it and know that we're intelligent
 
inb4 illuminati
 
Philosophically, There's someone who did that
"Assume aliens exist Then given that there are at least two intelligent races in the universe, humanity is not a unique event and there must be an infinite number of intelligent species in the infinite universe. At least one of these races must have discovered Pythagoras' theorem before Pythagoras. If that was the case then the theorem would have been named after the alien discoverer. BUT the theorem is known as pythagoras' theorem which is a contradiction. Thus aliens do not exist. QED"
see those
 
This prove is trivial since Pythagoras is not an alien.
 
4:39 PM
lol
But Pythagoras' theorem wasn't even first discovered by Pythagoras anyway
 
I can believe there are people who have convinced themselves that they have a proof
 
It was known for centuries before him
 
gauss tried to prove that
In 1820, German mathematician Carl Friedrich Gauss sought to incorporate the work of Pythagoras in his quest to communicate with alien life on Mar
*mars
 
> A Frenchman, Charles Cros, suggested building a huge mirror that could focus sunlight and burn messages into the very surface of Mars.
Pretty sure that's a declaration of war
if there are aliens up there
 
4:40 PM
heheh XD
 
The dimension bound is what is used in the proof of Lefschetz's hyperplane theorem that I know.
 
I heard someone say that "theorems are named after the first person after Euler to discover them"
That doesn't apply to Pythagoras, clearly, but it makes the point that a lot of the time things are named after the wrong person
 
and also Euler proved a shitton of stuff
(Not to be confused with Euclid)
 
@anakhronizein Ohh
 
4:42 PM
Just define a non-Euclidean space with alien and show that Pythagoras theorem doesn't hold.
 
Pythogoras and ramanujan believed that they were messengers of Aliens
 
My own position re: alien life is that the universe is both too big for alien life not to exist and too big for us to expect causal contact with alien life to occur
 
Those came into their minds when they slept
 
@AbhasKumarSinha [citation needed]
 
I thought Ramanujan thought he was the messenger of deities
 
4:43 PM
I mean, humans are technically "aliens" with respect to the universe
 
Which makes sense because the Lefschetz hyperplane theorem can be explained by "a lot of homology disappears where you wouldn't expect it to".
 
Like, Hindu gods
 
In particular I agree re Ramanujan
 
4:43 PM
@Semiclassical I'm pretty sure we're functionally the only """intelligent""" entities in the universe
Where intelligence is characterized by how well we can communicate with others
 
In Ancient Aliens Episode Knowledge @Semiclassical
 
and functionally means we will never be able to communicate with any other beings
 
I think that, mathematically, there exists a number that encodes an intelligent Turing machine
 
I dunno, if you look at humans, we don't do the most intelligent things :P
 
Technically there's probably many others
 
So, if numbers "exist", then so does intelligence outside of humans
 
If u think I'm just kidding
 
@CookieToast I mean that's a loose terminology but I want to rule off bacterium and stuff like that
 
4:45 PM
@CookieToast continuing to watch the history channel these days being one of them
 
Should bacteria be considered as aliens who did Pythagoras theorem?
 
@BalarkaSen yeah, I buy that
 
@Semiclassical It's kind of a disappointing hypothesis
 
@AbhasKumarSinha Relevant bit at 2:15 seconds in
 
“The universe is large enough that alien life is both inevitable and irrelevant”
 
4:46 PM
That's right
 
yep, agree
 
@Semiclassical well said
 
aliens vs human, so prove who'll win, mathematically
XD hehe
 
I mean, one can always appeal to ignorance ie we don’t know what technological breakthroughs are possible
But I find that pretty unpersuasive
The scales involved are just too big
 
I also liked the idea in the comic Akiva gave me to read, where in the eventual future we've simply stopped trying to find life in the universe :P
 
4:48 PM
> "All of the science that we need to eventually create portals, stargate travel, hyperdimensional access mechanisms, levitation, teleportation, it all needs a mathematical foundation. And the closest that we have right now is the Ramanujan equations that we've been able to decipher so far, which came to him directly from this goddess who appeared to him in dreams."
What a load of BS
 
@Semiclassical we can, for example, the greek and indians were far away and were not discovered till 16th century, but both had same mathematics, but in different languages, for ex- both invented pythogoras theorem,
So, even if there are aliens and we are isolated, we'd have a lot in common
not language, though
 
> "Could Ramanujan have been telepathically receiving important information, that might enable humans to build a portal or stargate to other dimensions or alien worlds?"
What the hell happened to the History channel, man
 
yea
i like that show, a bit philosophical
 
Money
 
I mean, I've seen some of Ramanujan's work
It's brilliant
It is not space travel
 
4:51 PM
Specifically, the ability to make money by airing crap like that
 
45 mins ago, by Tuki
if i have gradient for function $f(x,y)$ $$ \nabla f(x,y)=\begin{bmatrix} \frac{\delta}{\delta x} \\ \frac{\delta}{\delta y} \end{bmatrix} $$ so for example vector $ \hat{a} =\nabla f(x_0,y_0)$ points to the direction of largest increase of function $f(x,y)$ at point $(x_0,y_0)$. Now if i want to find out the largest decrease in $f(x,y)$ we can call this vector $\hat{b}$ is it just $\hat{b}= -\nabla f(x_0,y_0) $ we make both components negative ? that would flip vector in negative direction ?
 
#gladIdonthavecable
 
This is the one i need help with
 
yep, aliens and we have money, time, space, maths, and science in common not matter how isolated and how different we are @Semiclassical
*no
 
Ehh. I prefer not to speculate about things which are empirically inaccessible unless o have to
 
4:52 PM
@Tuki Yeah, the greatest decrease is the negative gradient, so negate each component
 
#gladIdontwatchmuchTV
 
The nature of quantum mechanics, sure
 
I think humans will create a superhuman intelligence of our own long before we find anything intelligent in space
 
history has proved that, as i gave you an example @Semiclassical
not hstv
i mean
 
The only TV I watch these days is news (occasionally, maybe 3-5 times a month) and SNL
 
4:53 PM
Ehhh
Two data points is not s proof
 
0
Q: Lipschitz continuous function and $C_1$ function

quallenjägerI want to disprove the following statement. Every Lipschitz-Continuous function is almost everywhere continuous differentiable. From Whitney-Extension theorem, we know that the derivative of a Lipschitz-continuous function is continuous on a set being arbitrary close to a co-nullset. Does there...

 
okay now include greek @Semiclassical
 
Posted @Clarinetist
 
they also had 10 numbers
 
Additionally, those cultures were hardly isolated in the same sense as alien vs human life
 
4:54 PM
@quallenjäger Already voted
 
Hey guys, is there a way to "cancel out" Derivative operators?
 
@Clarinetist Thanks.
 
For example $D(x^{2}y - \frac{y^{2}}{2}) = 0$ where $y$ is a function of $x$
 
quora.com/… lol I laughed this time
 
4:55 PM
I.e. is there anything wrong with rearranging and then integrating?
 
Trade/commerce may have travelled much more slowly, but it was there
 
@CookieToast It seems to me that that's equivalent to $x^2y-\frac12y^2=C$
 
So it’s not as though Greek/Indian mathematics were developed in separate jars.
 
@Semiclassical If you met Aliens, then how you'd explain to them what is called 'left' and what is 'right' to them without any physical contact in microphone, for example?
 
4:57 PM
How to explain them Right and what is left?
 
you've watched too many sci-fi movies
 
@Akiva so in effect theres an "antiderivative operator" $I$ that I can apply to both sides to "remove" the $D$ operator?
$I(D(x^{2}y)) = x^{2}y = I(D(\frac{y^{2}}{2})) = \frac{{y^{2}}{2} + C$?
 
heheheh @BalarkaSen
 
I wouldn’t necessarily be able to do so?
 
yep, you can do
 
4:58 PM
@CookieToast Yes, it's written $\int$
 
I’m not claiming we would by any means
It hardly seems obvious to me
 
$I(D(x^{2}y)) = x^{2}y = I(D(\frac{y^{2}}{2})) = \frac{y^{2}}{2} + C$
to fix your LaTeX
 
as i gave you an example, that isolations doesn't means different
think a little
heheh :)
 
Ah so I'm literally just integrating? Yeah my sorry for the TeX
 
4:59 PM
again, you’re overestimating the isolation of these cultures
 
Thank you @akiva :)
 
@AbhasKumarSinha You're very much underestimating the physical form and perception of the "aliens" you speak of.
 
If $D$ is the derivative with respect to $x$ (i.e. $\frac{\rm d}{{\rm d}x}$) then $I$ is $\int{\rm d}x$
 
They wouldn't be built off of the aliens you see in Hollywood
 

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