« first day (2724 days earlier)      last day (2289 days later) » 

1:00 AM
DogAteMy, you with me? We're almost at the end.
 
like right for a sphere no matter how it's embedded you expect the heat after a long time to uniformize out the the initial average of the heat distro right
it doesnt matter how the sphere is stuck up in space, it's mean curvature can go crazy but the distribution doesnt care (if it's like properly insulated or w.e.)
 
I'm with you, where does $d\omega_i=\sum_j\omega_{ij}\wedge\omega_j$ come from?
 
idk physics lol
 
OK, so this comes from taking the defining equation $de_i = \sum \omega_{ij}e_j$ and differentiating it by the product rule, DogAteMy. Give it a try. [$d$ of LHS is $0$ of course.]
 
mostly I'm curious b/c it's the mean curvature which showed up in the electrostatics formula
though, come to think of it
 
1:03 AM
$\sum d\omega_{ij}e_j+\sum\omega_{ij}de_j$?
 
that formula is all about how the electric field varies as you move away from the surface of the conductor
so it's inextricably linked with the embedding of the conductor in 3D space
 
yes definitely
 
Wedge missing in the second term.
 
heat equation is definitely the thing people use to study MCF
 
1:06 AM
but that's a different heat equation to the one im using
mean curvature flow
 
kk
hmm
that's definitely a detail I don't know
 
ricci flow is also all about the heat equation lol
but idk if there's any physics beyond some differential geometers being like "hey heat equation smooths shit out what if we apply heat equation to geometric quantities and see what happens"
 
@TedShifrin $\sum e_jd\omega_{ij}+\sum\omega_{ij}\wedge de_j$?
 
well, i mostly find myself wondering what the relation between the two notions of the heat equation are
 
Minus in the second term, DogAteMy ... and then substitute what $de_j$ is.
 
1:08 AM
yeah idk enough about geometric flows yet, only a tiny tiny bit
the idea for ricci flow is that Ricci curvature is kind of like the second derivative of the metric that looks most like $\Delta$ kind of so $g_{t} = - \text{Ric}(g)$ is kind of like the heat equation kind of
 
Oh, right, the product rule is weird for forms. $\sum _je_jd\omega_{ij}-\sum_j\omega_{ij}\wedge\sum_k\omega_{jk}$?
 
g being the metric on some riemannian manifold
(this one has nothing to do with mean curvature)
 
hmm
nice explanation .
 
$e_k$ on the last term, DogAteMy. Then change indices to make the second one with a sum on $e_j$ too.
 
1:11 AM
ok .
After then what should I do ?
 
I think I've seen some of this stuff in other contexts @eric
gradient descent such and such
 
mean curvature flow is like $\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\varphi = H$ or $-H$ or something
$\varphi$ being a parametrization of your surface or whatever
 
cause $H$ is also kind of like $\Delta$
by $H$ i mean the mean curvature vector
 
$\sum _je_jd\omega_{ij}-\sum_j(\omega_{ij}\wedge\sum_k\omega_{jk}e_k)$
 
1:13 AM
i never remember how to do the arrow over the top
 
ah kk
 
sniped
 
Can now I raise my question ?
 
1:14 AM
then $\frac{\partial}{\partial(t)}\varphi(t, x) = \vec{H}$
 
DogAteMy. So we want to collect terms, so switch $j$ and $k$ in the second sum and you'll have everything in terms of the basis $e_j$.
 
But $j$ is already in the outer sum
I'm confused
 
You can always re-letter :)
 
But I can't have $\sum_j(\sum_j)$
$\sum _je_jd\omega_{ij}-\sum_k(\omega_{ik}\wedge\sum_j\omega_{kj}e_j)$?
Just switch $j$ and $k$?
 
There you go.
 
1:17 AM
the problem with this one @Semi ( i guess it's not a problem, it's why it's so fruitful to study) is that this thing can get crazy singularities because deforming along mean curvature isnt very nice
shit goes crazy
 
Oh, crap, I had you doing the wrong one. My fault.
 
i buy that
 
even for curves it goes crazy
 
We got the wrong structure equation, DogAteMy. There are two different sets of 'em. I just wasn't thinking.
 
1:18 AM
i know that a big part of why Perelmen's work was significant was that Ricci flow, done naively, leads to a Bad Time.
 
Consider the inclusion map $x\colon M\to \Bbb R^3$. We have $dx = \sum\omega_i e_i$. Do the same thing with that.
 
yeah he figured out how to cut out the crazy shit or something
i wanna know that story some day
 
right
 
$0=\sum_i\omega_i\sum_j\omega_{ij}e_j$?
 
@EricSilva that reminds me of a question I did a year or so ago, lemme find it
 
1:21 AM
$0 = \sum d\omega_i e_i - \sum \omega_i\wedge \sum \omega_{ij}e_j$.
Now we switch $i$ and $j$ as before. in the second sum.
 
so much $\Sigma$ it's like a fraternity up in here
 
fun pictures in there
 
$\sum d\omega_i e_i = \sum_j \omega_j\wedge \sum_i \omega_{ji}e_i$
 
these pictures are like pornography
 
Right, so $d\omega_i = \sum \omega_j\wedge \omega_{ji}$ [since $e_i$ form a basis]
 
1:23 AM
lol
 
wow these answers are pretty great
 
In particular, with $i=3$, $\sum \omega_j \wedge \omega_{j3} = 0$ ... which is what we wanted !!!
 
yeah, i was pleased as punch
 
Sorry about the longwinded route, DogAteMy. There's a learning curve to this method, but it's extremely powerful. See section 3.3 of my diff geo notes if you ever get interested.
 
read Clelland
@Akiva
 
1:24 AM
That requires a purchase.
But, yes.
 
yeah but i think it's worth it
im an advocate for that book
 
@EricSilva I followed it up with this question, which never really went anywhere: math.stackexchange.com/questions/882955/…
 
Maybe you guys could help out @IccheGuri, who's been very patient. I don't understand the question.
Eric, I'll have to tell Jeanne you're a fan. :)
 
hmm interesting
 
@TedShifrin , Thank you boss
Let me tell the problem .
 
1:26 AM
@Semi I like this problem
 
DogAteMy, if you're done with me, you should get @IccheGuri's question if you can understand it :P
 
mORNING EVERYONE
 
@IccheGuri Are the dogs moving in two straight lines?
@Faust You're up
 
Heya Faust.
 
Yes
@AkivaWeinberger
 
1:27 AM
@TedShifrin that induction proof was unsolvable prof made a mistake
 
Four dogs reside in each corner point of a square .
 
So after the first run, do they end up in the midpoints of the sides of the square?
 
Each side of square is 1 km .
 
Oh, great, @Faust. I really didn't understand it as you wrote it up.
 
yes
@AkivaWeinberger
 
1:27 AM
@TedShifrin its cause i speak Engrish and you speak English
 
Like that?
 
yes
 
And then in the second run, do they go half the distance to the new position of the dogs?
 
In 2nd run , they will cover $\frac{1}{k}$ km distance
 
1:29 AM
I have found answer for $\frac{1}{k}$ distance cover .
yes
 
If I understand you correctly, it looks like that... but I'm not sure how long those new lines should be
 
LOL @Faust.
Maybe I need a martini first.
 
$\sqrt2/4$?
 
@AkivaWeinberger , your understanding is correct
If they always cover 1/2 km distance then they will meet at the center of square .
 
@IccheGuri Should the new red lines have length $\sqrt2/4$ (half the side length of the inner square)?
 
1:31 AM
Yes
 
@TedShifrin i was eventually able to show it was unsolvable in the way it was stated and the prof fixed it, actually was the third problem on the same assignment i was able to show was either incorrect or unsolvable
 
For this question all dogs will meet at center of square
 
So it kinda looks like you end up with this spiral, piecewise-linear path that leads everyone into the center
Yeah
And the lengths of each of the linear pieces decreases exponentially
 
Can you tell me , where will the dogs reside if they cover 1/k km distance after first run ?
 
1:34 AM
And then 1/k of the side length of the inner square for the next run?
So that each run gets shorter and shorter again?
 
Yes
For this situation , where will the dogs reside after infinite time ?
 
@IccheGuri Like that? (For k=3)
I tried to make each run 1/3 the side-length of the square
It seems to me that the optimal strategy is to make sure that the size of the squares approaches 0
 
First run will cover half of side length
 
@Faust: I think it's OK for a prof to screw up occasionally in class or on homework, but it shouldn't be that often. I'm fond of "Prove or give a counterexample" questions, where there's room for error. :P
 
Then in each run they will cover a/k km distance
 
1:39 AM
1/k km, not 1/k * sidelength?
 
@AkivaWeinberger , I also think that the size of the square approaches to 0
 
'Cause the sidelength of the inner square keeps on changing
 
sorry
1/k*sidelength
 
@TedShifrin i way prefer when im not told what's happening
i also really like questions that are like "how are these two things related"
 
1:40 AM
Your best bet, I think, is to measure the side-length of the inner square after each step
and make sure that it goes to 0
You'll need the Pythagorean theorem
Call the nth sidelength, a_n
 
I know pythagorean theorm .
 
(That should be a subscript)
 
What is the value of a_n ?
 
1:43 AM
So a_{n+1} is the hypotenuse of a right triangle
with one leg a_n/n and another leg (a_n - a_n/n)
 
yeah
 
Do you know how to activate LaTeX in chat?
 
Go there ^, you want the "start ChatJax" one
$\displaystyle\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac1{n^2}$
 
@BalarkaSen your were saying that rational equivalence can be seen as
 
1:45 AM
If you get it working, that^ would look like a piece of math instead of random code
 
just cobordism
can you explain that bit more ?
 
@AkivaWeinberger , please tell me what should I do ?
to activate latex ?
 
Follow the instructions in that link I just gave you
 
oh hi @TedShifrin are you here?
 
Put the "start ChatJax" link as a bookmark
 
1:47 AM
Done
then ?
 
Nope, Karim. Am I supposed to be?
 
@TedShifrin can we discuss little bit the intuition of rational equivalence
 
@TedShifrin yeah he made up a nice question but it wasnt actually quite right, so he changed it so show why it wasnt true and added a second part but made anther mistake in his additional part, i was fine with the mistake question the unsolvable one sucked cause i spent like 8hrs on it before finally being able to show it was not provable.
 
@TedShifrin :P
 
@IccheGuri Test: $x^2$
 
1:47 AM
test is done with failure
 
@Faust: As long as you students don't get discouraged, it's a good learning experience.
LOL @IccheGuri.
 
latex is not activated
 
You want to click on the bookmark while you're in this tab
once you've made it a bookmark
 
Yes
now test successfull
THank you
 
1:48 AM
@TedShifrin I was wondering how can we see rational equivalence I don't have as of yet a picture in my hea
 
Karim: So what's the definition of rational equivalence?
 
One side is $a_n/n$, another side is $a_n-a_n/n$
which equals $a_n(1-\frac1n)$
 
yes
 
DogAteMy: Isn't one side $a_n/n$?
 
So, $a_{n+1}=\sqrt{a_n{}^2+a_n{}^2(1-1/n)^2}$
@TedShifrin Er, whoops, yes
$a_{n+1}=a_n\sqrt{\frac1{n^2}+(1-\frac1n)^2}$
 
1:49 AM
So factor out $a_n$, anyhow?
 
Nooo ... The first $1$ should be a $(1/n)^2$?
 
@TedShifrin the definition that I like is that $\alpha_1 \equiv \alpha_2$ iff there exists $\beta$ cycle in $\mathbb{P}^1 \times X$ such that if we restrict $\beta$ on the fibers $\{t_0\} \times X$ and $\{t_1\} \times X$ we will get $\alpha_1$ and $\alpha_2$.
 
@TedShifrin Ach. Same mistake twice in a row.
 
I forgive you :P
 
1:51 AM
@AkivaWeinberger , you are really a boss
 
So, uh, I guess I can factor out $\frac1n$ as well? $\dfrac{a_n}n\sqrt{1+(n-1)^2}$?
 
yes
 
Yup.
Karim: So what's linear equivalence?
 
Hrm, this is starting to look kinda ugly to be honest
 
what is the value of $a_0$ , $a_1$ ?
 
1:52 AM
$a_0$ is the original side length, $1$
 
$a_1$ would be what you get after the dogs each run halfway into the square, so $\sqrt2/2$
Er, actually sorry
 
@TedShifrin I don't know what is linear equivalence
 
$a_1$ is $1$; $a_2$ is $\sqrt2/2$
 
This formula is for covering 1/n * sidelength distance , right ?
 
1:54 AM
Yeah
 
ok .
 
Karim: That's the primary notion. Two divisors $D$, $D'$ are linearly equivalent if there is a holomorphic mapping $f\colon X\to \Bbb P^1$ with $D=f^{-1}(0)$ and $D' = f^{-1}(\infty)$. (Of course, you could make those any two values you want.)
 
okay sure
 
I'm not quite sure how to continue this to be honest
 
@AkivaWeinberger , so we want to find our the value of $a_1+a_2+a_3+....................$
 
1:56 AM
Well, I think that if we figure out that $a_n$ goes to $0$ as $n$ goes to $\infty$, then we'll know that they all end up in the center
 
ok .
 
So Balarka's cobordism comment is (topologically speaking) to take a curve from $0$ to $\infty$ and take the preimage. What does that give you "upstairs"?
 
So we should apply the knowledge of limit here right ?
 
Yeah, but we kinda end up with an infinite product
'cause $a_5$, by the formula is $\dfrac{\sqrt{17}}5$ times $a_4$
 
DogAteMy: Of course, you don't need a formula for $a_n$ to prove convergence to $0$. You get a decreasing sequence, but I haven't worked on it.
 
1:58 AM
which means it's $\dfrac{\sqrt{17}}5\cdot\dfrac{\sqrt{10}}4$ times $a_3$
 
it traces out a homotopy between $D$ and $D^{\prime}$ ?
 
@TedShifrin Each new factor goes towards 1
 
It depends how quickly. Take logs and turn into a question about summations.
 
I have applied knowledge of limits here .
 
$a_5=\dfrac{\sqrt{17}}5\cdot\dfrac{\sqrt{10}}4\cdot \dfrac{\sqrt5}3\cdot\dfrac{\sqrt2}2$
 
1:59 AM
Karim: Right. But it actually gives you a (smooth, not complex) $3$-fold whose boundary is $D-D'$. That's what cobordism is.
 
So $\frac{a_{n+1}}{a_n}$=1
 
ohhh
ohh
 
@IccheGuri It goes to 1, yeah. Which means that the ratio test is indeterminate
 
when the value of n tends to infinte
So all our efforts are in vein .
 
@TedShifrin I was wondering do you know what is a good learning route to be able to see algebraic cycles intuitively?
 
2:01 AM
@TedShifrin I have no reason to think that makes it easier
 
DogAteMy: Can you see anything taking logs of your product?
OK. I haven't tried.
 
WolframAlpha says it's 0
 
I was thinking of learning classical algebraic geometry good and along with modern algebraic geometry
 
The intuition is basic algebraic topology stuff.
 
oh
 
2:02 AM
@AkivaWeinberger link ?
 
The point is that manifolds can be cobordant without being homologous, Karim.
Do you know the usual picture for that?
 
no
 
ok
then what is the value of $a_1+a_2+a_3+ \dots $
 
It's called a "pair of pants." Draw a pair of pants. The waist is joined by the pair of pants to the two cuffs at the bottom of the legs. However, you can't have a circle homologous to a disjoint union of two circles. (Number of connected components can't change!)
 
2:04 AM
ohh
I see it now
when you mentioned pair of pants I saw it right away
 
Oh, actually, I think I see how to prove that it goes to 0
 
It involves the fact that $\prod(1+a_n)$ converges iff $\sum a_n$ does.
At least, I think that's true
 
Yes, by Taylor approximation for $\log(1+a_n)$. :)
So now what's the picture in your rational equivalence case, Karim? You still should have a picture, just not for divisors.
 
@IccheGuri I don't think there'll be a good way to find the total distance
 
2:07 AM
I am astonished.
Is this math for 9th grade students ?
 
Whoa!!
It's a good exploration for any students :)
 
yeah got it
 
Wait, actually, this diverges
 
yeah for example for rational equivalence it is also if we take a circle let us flip the pair of pants upside down. Then, if we look from bottom to top we see that bottom circle is rationally equivalent to the top one
top two
 
$a_n\ge1/n$
 
2:08 AM
Well, Karim, you have to be in the algebraic category, which we're not.
 
The total distance is infinite
 
But ninth graders wouldn't know that :P
 
@IccheGuri Is this the actual question that you've been given? Honestly, I thought that you were just exploring on your own
 
Yeah, me too.
 
If this is something for homework, double-check that you've read the question correctly
 
2:09 AM
Can I have chat in another room with you ?
 
@TedShifrin what do you mean ?
 
anyone know why this isn't rendering on mathb.in
$z_{o} \in \mathbb{Z}$ and $\big\{z_{o}\big\}_{j=1}^{\infty} \subset \mathbb{Z} \backslash \big\{z_{o}}\big\$
?
 
I meant we were drawing a smooth picture of a surface in $\Bbb R^3$, with cobordant $1$-manifolds. ... Algebraic cycles are complex (algebraic) subvarieties, not real ones.
You left off a final slash before }, @Zophikel.
Oh, and you have \big\ in front of nothing. It needs to be before the final }.
 
just take the real points ?
 
2:16 AM
Nah.
I honestly have never thought that much about rational equivalence other than for linear equivalence ...
But you need to stay in the algebraic (or complex analytic) category.
OK, I'm going to cook dinner. Bye, all, for now.
 
thanks @TedShifrin
 
@TedShifrin Can we show that $\prod(1+\frac1{n^2})$ converges without relying on the log-approximation fact?
I imagine yes; compare it to something else that converges
 
thanks @TedShifrin I am starting to see a better picture of what is going on
 
Because that's essentially the final ingredient in that infinite product
Hm. What's $1+\frac1{n+1}$ divided by $1+\frac1n$?
Er, better, $1+\frac1n$ divided by $1+\frac1{n-1}$
$\frac{n^2-1}{n^2}$
$1-\frac1{n^2}$
Hm. That's not quite what I wanted.
Actually. Hold on. $1+\frac1{n^2}=\frac{n^2+1}{n^2}<\frac{n^2}{n^2-1}$
and that last one telescopes
which means that $\prod(1+\frac1{n^2})$ converges
 
2:43 AM
Hm. Say $b_n=\dfrac{\sqrt{n-1}}{n\sqrt n}$.
What's $b_{n+1}/b_n$?
$\dfrac{\sqrt n\cdot n\sqrt n}{(n+1)\sqrt{n+1}\cdot\sqrt{n-1}}$
$\dfrac{n^2}{(n+1)\sqrt{n^2-1}}$
And we previously established that $a_{n+1}/a_n=\dfrac{\sqrt{1+(n-1)^2}}n$
 
3:22 AM
Ignore all that
 
3:50 AM
I go to the casino with $50. I decide I'm going to go to the roulette table and repeatedly bet $10 on black until I run out of money. Each bet, if I win, pays my original bet back plus $10 (1 to 1 payout).
Let's assume that the house edge on a $10 bet is exactly 50 cents.
What is the expected value of the total number of bets I make before running out of money?
 
if i have to integrate 1 /(4x^2+1) i know this is can be tan^-1 but if i just apply u substitution and get a natural log of of u where u = 4x^2 +1 is this also correct? I'm a bit confused since i can get two different results
 
My best guess is 100, but that's based on the assumption that E(number of bets) = total amount lost / E(amount lost on a given bet).
 
I know that expected values don't necessarily behave in the obvious way.
 
in no way does that link answer my question @orbit-stabilizer
 
3:56 AM
@TannerSwett You should go from the definition of expectation: E[number of bets]=1*(probability of going out on first bet)+2*(probability of going out on second bet)+3*(probability of going out on third bet)+...
 
IAre you saying the antiderivative of that function is $ln(4x^2 + 1)$?
 
@WDUK Well, take the derivative of ln (4x^2 + 1).
@WDUK Do you get back 1/(4x^2 + 1)
 
You may be able to estimate the expected value by some other method, but there's no way around finding the probabilities if you want to actually compute it
 
well no, but then that means the u substitution doesnt work in all cases but then what can i look for to tell me it won't work
 
@Semiclassical Do you know if it is possible to prove any version of the CLT without dominated convergence?
 
3:58 AM
You did your u-sub incorrectly.
 
@WDUK It works in all cases if you do it correctly, but it looks like you're making a mistake in applying it.
 
no clue
 
u = 4x^2 + 1, then du = 8x dx.
 
ok let me redo it just to be sure
 

« first day (2724 days earlier)      last day (2289 days later) »