The Bridge

2:00 PM

It's an extension of the part of the process wherein we do not actually have a "leniency period" for pre-release questions. Rather, it's a matter of case-by-case judgment that we have to make.

fbueckert

@fredley 31 billion cookies a second.

Trying to figure out the logistics for that is mindboggling.

Grace Note

By leniency period, I mean like, we don't have a ruling that "If a question was asked 5 days before release" (which is the period of time that on hold lasts) "it can just be reopened". This is for two reasons, one because time being the source of an open/close charade is dumb and a waste of time, two because all that does is push back the argument five days.

Lazers

1

Q: Does playing as a certain empire affect the great person you get?

For example, when I play as China, it seems that most of my great people are Chinese. Does playing as a specific empire cause you to have great people that come from the empire? Or is it purely coincidental?

civilization-5

0

Q: How do I determine the true DPS increase?

I've been looking to upgrade my gear slowly, starting with my weapon. I've been looking at AH but I'm a bit uncertain as to how I should read out the differeces in DPS. The following SS show a Manticore that has higher stats than my current. I can't really imagine that my current Manticore is t...

diablo-3

-1

Q: Which game is better FIFA 14 or PES 14?

I am planning to buy FIFA 14. Still i thought I should ask u all that what do you think which game is better FIFA 14 or PES 14.... For me personally I think FIFA 14 is better.

fifa-12 fifa-13 pro-evolution-soccer pes-2012 pes-2013

5pike

@fbueckert if it's something like "a dark room" ... could be great

FEichinger

2:02 PM

@GraceNote Tbh, our "seeding" argument is actually most effective during said five days.

fredley

@fbueckert It involves more than 100 time machines

fbueckert

@Lazers New drama! Close that!

5pike

@fbueckert No drama - it's obvious

fbueckert

@5pike So was the other one. There was still drama.

Who knows; we might allow opinion-based questions some day!

5pike

@fbueckert Hopefully not

fredley

2:05 PM

Girl scouts apparently sell 200m boxes of cookies per year, with ~30 cookies per box - a paltry 190 cps

fbueckert

@fredley I'd actually like a browser-based game that forces you to actually store everything that you're generating.

Make it like an isometric city builder-esque thing, and it'd be amusing.

Yeah, you make 30 billion cookies a second. Now store 'em!

fredley

Trying to estimate custard cream cps, I imagine that would be large

@fbueckert Supply Chain Management Simulator 2013

Private Pansy

Aug 25 at 2:40, by Private Pansy

@OrigamiRobot If you distribute them evenly amongst the world's population, each person would get around seven cookies. Seven cookies.

fbueckert

@PrivatePansy per second

Can you eat seven cookies a second? I know I can't.

There. New question's been asked, thereby invalidating the whole drama.

fredley

@fbueckert I'm at 4.4 per second, probably still above human consumption capability

5pike

2:09 PM

@fbueckert 7464960000 cookies a day

OrigamiRobot

0

Q: How is loot shared on console-based co-op play?

I have read that Blizzard have built the console version from the ground up and that they have made a few changes to the loot mechanic. Is there any difference to how loot is shared in the console version in co-op?

diablo-3

fbueckert

40 secs ago, by fbueckert

There. New question's been asked, thereby invalidating the whole drama.

FEichinger

@fbueckert Do we get to kneejerk dupe vote it now?

Because that's the way we do things around here, right?

fbueckert

@FEichinger If the other one gets re-opened, I'd say yes.

fredley

@FEichinger Closing it would create more drama. Let's close it.

Wipqozn

2:10 PM

Did I miss something, @Sterno?

0

Q: How is loot shared on D3 console co-op?

I have read that Blizzard have built the console version from the ground up and that they have made a few changes to the loot mechanic. Is there any difference to how loot is shared in the console version in co-op?

diablo-3

How is this a valid, on-topic question?

The PS3 version isn't out yet.

TZHX

The xbox version is.

Sterno

@Wipqozn xbox is

Wipqozn

@Sterno Ah, okay.

Oh it just came out today

FEichinger

Yeh, that. Whatever. A console version is released.

OrigamiRobot

A mod should just delete the original.

FEichinger

2:12 PM

@OrigamiRobot Not while there's an active meta about it.

Sconibulus

@FEichinger so delete the meta thirty seconds earlier? :)

Sterno

I agree the drama related to this particular question is out of proportion. However, this is becoming something of an epidemic on Arqade. We seem to be getting more and more caught up in our internal rules and closing things because "Policy says so!" not because the actual question has a problem. This is basically what that entire piracy debate a few weeks ago was.

2

FEichinger

@Sconibulus Then I'll ask a new meta about the meta.

OrigamiRobot

I will never understand why we insist on tying our own hands here. We have the power to put things in the state they should have always been in. Why not do that?

FEichinger

@Sterno I still think there's a difference to the piracy debate.

fbueckert

2:14 PM

@Sterno That's sort of strawmanning that debate.

Sterno

@FEichinger The only difference is we're talking about the oid associated with a question mattering, instead of the user asking.

Powerlord

From an email sent to all state employees:

> You will need to enter you current password in ALL CAPS both at the initial login screen and again when you’re prompted to change it.

FEichinger

@Sterno The piracy question needs its content altered to become valid. This one doesn't. Fundamental difference.

Shotgun Ninja

@Powerlord Nice.

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot That would resolve the whole problem nicely.

Sterno

2:15 PM

@FEichinger I don't think it did. The only problem with the piracy question was a comment that admitted to piracy.

badp

@Powerlord When you initially set your password were you required to use mixed case?

Wipqozn

I agree with @Sterno. That question should have been deleted,but it wasn't. It's silly to now delete it. This is just a good example of why closing / deleting fast is good.
People are still wondering about the question because someone asked it after release.

Powerlord

@badp Yes. Which is why this disturbs me.

fbueckert

@Wipqozn Slow turtle is slow.

Powerlord

In a properly maintained system, you wouldn't know what my password was in order to force me to enter it in all uppercase.

fbueckert

2:16 PM

@Sterno That's still misunderstanding the whole piracy debate.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Nah, fast chat is fast. And then I kept thinking of something else to add.

badp

@Powerlord Well, now you just need to try and put in your password with the wrong case and see if it still lets you through

just to see how much deeper you need to go.

Sterno

@fbueckert Then I guess I misunderstand it.

Mad Scientist

@Powerlord In the best case they always uppercased it before hashing it and now just changed it so that the hash is case-sensitive

Sterno

Because that seemed to be exactly what the resolution ended up being.

FEichinger

2:17 PM

@Sterno As far as I recall, the piracy thing was in the actual question. Which doesn't change my stance, though: I always said I'd be fine with just altering the question to become valid. I just called for a clear policy on that because we used to do it by "piracy -> close, ignore anything else" before.

Powerlord

This timekeeping system has other wtfs, too.

badp

@MadScientist Slightly bester case is they used an encoding that is case insensitive

Powerlord

Such as upgrading your .NET Oracle drivers breaking it.

Wipqozn

@Sterno The problem is that people don't want to offer support for pirated games. Admitting to piracy means you're offering support for pirated games.

fbueckert

@Sterno It's been my understanding that any whiff of piracy, prior to our debate about what constitutes piracy, is that the question got closed. Period. I wasn't the only one who understood it that way.

Powerlord

2:18 PM

(the app tosses "Server too old" if you do)

OrigamiRobot

I like how this has gone from arguing about the topic to arguing whether the topic is like another topic.

Grace Note

...did we really just have a second incidence of "Well, let's just ask a duplicate of an existing question that is still closed", except the two questions here are even more identical than the piracy situation?

2

Private Pansy

@badp Shouldn't affect the hash, unless the password is stored in plaintext

fbueckert

@GraceNote Silly people are silly.

FEichinger

@GraceNote Essentially, yes.

Wipqozn

2:19 PM

@fbueckert I did as well. Because that's exactly what the policy was.

TZHX

@GraceNote isn't that what the community wants?

Sterno

@fbueckert I agree with what you just said. I'm not sure exactly where we are differing.

Wipqozn

IT may have been a stupid policy, but it was still the policy.

Grace Note

@TZHX I kinda hope not?

badp

@PrivatePansy I mean, the actual hashing function is case insensitive

which is actually a thing that exists apparently

fbueckert

2:19 PM

@Sterno That was how we understood our piracy policy.

Sterno

But either way, it's sounding like it will be unproductive to equate the two questions, so I'll drop it.

TZHX

@GraceNote well, the alternative would be reopening the closed questions, but that's dumb.

fbueckert

Regardless of whether or not the problem was related to piracy, it was closed.

FEichinger

@Sterno With nothing. The piracy debate was always more about changing our policy to spell out that we apply common sense.

Private Pansy

:11057493 Huh

Grace Note

2:20 PM

@TZHX If you understood what I explained about why I considered the reopening dumb, you'll notice that reasking the question is actually exactly the same kind of dumb.

Sterno

Another thing to remember is that the highest voted answer on meta doesn't actually mean all that much. Anyone remember the "game completion time" questions debacle?

Grace Note

As with before this doesn't mean we should do anything about the newly asked one.

FEichinger

Could we all just not act about that particular question right now? We have a meta on it, let's discuss it before opening new questions, closevoting stuff or reopening other stuff.

OrigamiRobot

Really my only problem with leaving the new one open (had it stayed open) is that it basically says "This slipped through the cracks so it's OK." That's not a very good precedent to set.

Grace Note

As my Meta post is about to point out, we're about to have wasted over an hour on one of the dumbest course of actions that this site has seen. I don't care how we end up in the state, we have a valid question that is open and we're going to stick with it. It's not at all worth any additional time to even dwell on "reopen original versus keep new".

3

Ronan Forman

2:22 PM

@GraceNote We don't fix dumb with more dumb.

Powerlord

I think we should all just go cook and eat some bacon.

And watch Danganronpa.

Grace Note

@RonanForman Which is why closing it would be dumb.

FEichinger

@RonanForman We already have. twice.

Powerlord

I wonder if it'd be on topic for Anime (does SE have an Anime site?) to ask why the blood in Danganronpa is bright pink.

Grace Note

@FEichinger Far more than twice at this point but that, again, is my upcoming point.

Ronan Forman

2:23 PM

@FEichinger Fine. We shouldn't fix...

FEichinger

@GraceNote Well, with the topic at hand. Not the entire history of ... the past couple of weeks.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot It's an excellent precedent. It motivates people to actually delete things if they care about the policy that much. My underlying problem with a lot of our policies if that if they are too difficulty to implement and lead to silly situations (like the current one), maybe they shouldn't be policy.

Grace Note

@FEichinger I do mean the topic at hand. We've had several levels of dumb at this point. It's quite dumb.

Sterno

The real answer is to give everyone currently in chat 20k rep so we can all delete!

:)

FEichinger

@RonanForman Indeed. Hence why I'm against reopening the original, myself.

OrigamiRobot

2:24 PM

9 mins ago, by OrigamiRobot

I will never understand why we insist on tying our own hands here. We have the power to put things in the state they should have always been in. Why not do that?

FEichinger

@GraceNote I wouldn't say that was more than two instances, but go ahead.

fbueckert

@FEichinger Perhaps you should include the fact that it's been asked yet again into your Meta question, as that will have to be included in how we handle this.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot By the same token, why bend over backwards to implement policy and close a question that clearly 5 people cared about, isn't hurting anyone, and just makes everything take more work to close it again and get it reasked by someone else? Who's winning, here?

fbueckert

@Sterno Honestly, no one. All it's doing is causing grief for everybody.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno "Clearly 5 people cared about?" Seriously?

FEichinger

2:25 PM

@Sterno Well, it's four people, kalina also reclosed it.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Maybe just one person? Someone must have started off the reopen votes. It certainly doesn't seem to be happening to every single closed-because-too-early question

Wipqozn

We really need to be less rigid with our application of our policies. We need to be more flexible in situations like this.

OrigamiRobot

I don't care at all about the current situation, I only care about preventing it from happening again. So lets talk about that. Let's look at why this happened.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot I can get on board with that.

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot It was a question that was irreparably off topic that wasn't deleted.

Sterno

2:27 PM

I think the fundamental problem there is that getting delete votes organized is a lot of work.

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot The question wasn't deleted fast enough. That's all.

badp

This happened because Fredley pushed the good things out of our brains with hidden Rebecca Black links

3

Powerlord

Why can't it be going home time yet?

OrigamiRobot

What should have happened was the question should have been deleted. Why wasn't it?

Powerlord

I don't want to wait another 7 hours.

badp

2:27 PM

The solution is to blame and ban @fredley.

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot Not enough 20kers, and no mod voted to deleted it.

OrigamiRobot

It wasn't because everyone forgot about it by the time it was eligible for deletion.

StrixVaria

@OrigamiRobot There are restrictions on casting delete votes on recently closed questions.

Wipqozn

10kers can't vote until 2 days after closure. 20kers can delete right way, along with mods.

StrixVaria

SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE PINGED ME I LOVE DELETING THINGS

2

OrigamiRobot

2:28 PM

So what's the solution? Flag questions like this for moderator attention.

FEichinger

To be quite honest, I really don't think we should use this as precedent to delete fast.

OrigamiRobot

Future problems solved.

fbueckert

I don't even have delete votes, so there's nothing I could have done to help out.

badp

@StrixVaria Go!

StrixVaria

@badp My hero!

fbueckert

2:29 PM

@badp Closed is now not just a mod search?

badp

@fbueckert Closed never was. Deleted is though.

Wipqozn

@FEichinger Why not?

OrigamiRobot

32 secs ago, by StrixVaria

@badp My hero!

fbueckert

@badp Your search still includes duplicates.

badp

@fbueckert then skip them!

Powerlord

2:30 PM

@OrigamiRobot DATA ACCEPTED

fbueckert

@badp Why'd you include it in your search terms!?

FEichinger

@Wipqozn Deleting fast really leaves a bad taste with me. Bombarding stuff into oblivion leaves barely anything to contest.

badp

@fbueckert there's a minus sign in front of it

fbueckert

@badp And it still includes dupes, though!

badp

@fbueckert I DON'T KNOW OKAY

fbueckert

2:31 PM

@badp OKAY! WHY ARE WE YELLING?

badp

@fbueckert IT WAS JUST ME AND THEN YOU JOINED ME

Wipqozn

@FEichinger If there's anything to contest, sure, but there wasn't anything to contest here.

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/129761/…

When someone asks a question like that there's nothing to contest. The policy is clear.

30 mins ago, by Lazers

-1

Q: Which game is better FIFA 14 or PES 14?

I am planning to buy FIFA 14. Still i thought I should ask u all that what do you think which game is better FIFA 14 or PES 14.... For me personally I think FIFA 14 is better.

fifa-12 fifa-13 pro-evolution-soccer pes-2012 pes-2013

The whole 2-day delay is in place to allow time to contest, but there are questions which are clearly just off-topic / can't be fixed / et cetera.

contest and/or fix.

Sterno

You know what this really makes me wonder? Whether or not D3 for Xbox sucks.

OrigamiRobot

@badp 1113 is a lot of broken windows.

Fluttershy

Did I miss all the drama regarding a mishandling of site policies?

FEichinger

2:33 PM

@Wipqozn It's clear (that it applies) for the people who close it, otherwise they wouldn't close it. I really don't think we should be deleting in a matter of minutes after closing.

Sterno

@Fluttershy Never too late to beat a dead horse.

OrigamiRobot

@Fluttershy There's always meta.

badp

@OrigamiRobot Our number of closed deleted questions is 4,363

so that's about 1 in 5

OrigamiRobot

@badp 20% failure rate is terrible.

badp

Failure? More like non-automated deletion

fbueckert

2:34 PM

@Sterno Wasn't it supposed to be just like a twin-stick shooter?

OrigamiRobot

@OrigamiRobot @GraceNote @badp Thoughts?

Powerlord

@Sterno On the minus side, it's a game designed for a mouse ported to a system whose primary input is a gamepad. On the plus side, the shitty auction house isn't there nor is the always online requirement.

Also on the minus side is that it's Diablo 3.

Grace Note

@OrigamiRobot We have 19 users who have 20k, and 60 users with 10k, at least 7 of the former are fairly regular in chat, far more of the latter.

Wipqozn

@GraceNote We have 19 users with 20k? My word.

OrigamiRobot

@GraceNote The problem is you can't vote to delete immediately unless it's at a negative score.

@GraceNote The whole problem here is that the question was forgotten.

Sterno

2:38 PM

@GraceNote Are some of those 19 mods?

Grace Note

@OrigamiRobot This... shouldn't be a problem if a question doesn't belong?

@Sterno None of the ones I counted as among the 7.

Powerlord

@GraceNote The fact that after two years Gaming only has 19 20k users is a bit concerning.

Or is it 3 years now?

Sterno

@Powerlord They keep deleting themselves.

fbueckert

@Sterno One got undeleted!

Powerlord

@Sterno Yes, they do.

FEichinger

2:39 PM

@Powerlord 3. Bad Pea has another Yearling.

Grace Note

@Powerlord Ask Ubuntu is bigger than us and has only 18.

FEichinger

@GraceNote We have a different problem, though.

Powerlord

@fbueckert Yes, which I found odd because I was told that deleting accounts was permanent.

FEichinger

We have vote laziness.

fbueckert

Oh. @Raven just duped our new question. Joy.

Powerlord

2:40 PM

Apparently not too permanent because even now, my total rep displayed on Area 51 includes my Gaming rep.

TZHX

Glad things are consistent.

Grace Note

@FEichinger My point is more than 19 isn't actually all that concerning.

Powerlord

@GraceNote Ask Ubuntu has been around for how long?

Grace Note

The sites that surpass us... kinda do so voluminously, which puts that age is far less relevant in their situation.

fbueckert

@TZHX Welcome to daily life at Arqade, where consistency is an idealistic goal.

Grace Note

2:41 PM

@Powerlord Same as us, they're basically our competitor except with corporate sponsorship.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert ...and he didn't bother re-opening the original question. What?

FEichinger

@GraceNote Well, given that AU can't really get high-rep users when no one votes, the comparison is just ... not all that helpful.

Sepia Lazers

5

Q: Why was this question re-closed?

129350 (" diablo-3How is loot shared on D3 console co-op?") was put on hold today, with the following close reasons given: "Questions about unreleased or illegal content are off topic on Arqade. We only support questions about games available to the general public through legitimate means....

discussion closing reopen

fredley

@badp booo

Wipqozn

Did you not notice the original question was closed, @RavenDreamer?

TZHX

2:41 PM

@fbueckert thanks. :)

badp

We don't have to have 0 undeleted, closed questions older than x days

fbueckert

@TZHX We try, though. Which is what our whole drama was about.

badp

That was never a goal, or a thing that needs to be true

I don't think there's any SE site that's anywhere near that point

FEichinger

@badp Nope, because the other sites are either too large to ~~care~~ reasonably maintain, or have a significantly lower Content Advocate to User Advocate ratio.

Wipqozn

@TZHX I just noticed your picture is a monkey. I thought it was some gray alien.

OrigamiRobot

2:43 PM

@badp I think that should be a goal.

badp

@FEichinger This ratio is not something I'm familiar with and I think pretty much all sites put policies before users

Lazers

1

Q: How is loot shared on console-based co-op play?

I have read that Blizzard have built the console version from the ground up and that they have made a few changes to the loot mechanic. Is there any difference to how loot is shared in the console version in co-op?

diablo-3

-2

Q: Number of tiles in civilization

How many tiles are there in each different sized civ 5 map? Including all land and water tiles.

civilization-5

0

Q: Is it possible to play Magicka in LAN?

Me and some friends have bought Magicka on Steam and we would like to have a session in a LAN party, without direct internet connection. Is it possible with some tricks?

magicka

FEichinger

@badp Not that heavily, though. We act a lot more harshly on that end.

badp

because stack overflow tried (remember when CW was a get out of jail free card?) and failed terribly

TZHX

@Wipqozn That's alarming.

fbueckert

2:44 PM

Oh. A question has to be at -3 for me to be able to cast a delete vote.

Powerlord

@GraceNote Define bigger. Because Area 51 tells me that Gaming gets approximately 5.5 times the visitors Ask Ubuntu does per day.

badp

@Powerlord Area 51 numbers are frozen on graduation day

Grace Note

@Powerlord stackexchange.com/sites#traffic

FEichinger

@Powerlord Area51 is outdated. stackexchange.com/sites#traffic

@GraceNote Oh, you gorram ninja, you!

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert That's why I think these questions should be flagged as soon as they are closed.

Grace Note

2:46 PM

They kinda dwarf us in every single category that I can attribute as "volume". Users, questions, questions per day, answers, and even traffic for this period.

badp