The Bridge

StrixVaria

12:08 AM

@Brant Why. Is. This. Getting. Upvotes.

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria Because Hitler. That's why.

Mana

XNA getting discontinued was my first real "Microsoft, why do you need to break my heart like this" moment.

3

I will never recover from that pain.

Tim Stone

Those monsters, them feels. :(

Mana

I will, however, constantly try to make wrappers around any other framework I use to make it feel like I'm still using it.

Ktash

@Mana January 2013 is the first time you had that thought? Wow, I don't know how you dodged all of those bullets, but congratulations

Mana

12:13 AM

@Ktash by not really investing myself in the MS development stack until XNA.

LessPop_MoreFizz

12:25 AM

Ugggffffhggggggghhhh I need/want to write a big long meta post to resolve all these Ideas sloshing around in my head, but I have no time/energy.

badp

user15026

@LessPop_MoreFizz make point form notes for now? Hire a ghostwriter?

badp

That one-hit three-kill swing was just too much

:(

Mana

@badp aw man, they still haven't fixed those crashes?

Wipqozn

@LessPop_MoreFizz I assume it's due to the Diablo 3 question and your belief it's part of the "Magic Word" problem?

badp

12:28 AM

@AshleyNunn Wouldn't it take as much effort to write them as it would to speak them out?

Mana

I hope they at least fixed the ones that made the rooms with lots of gun enemies pretty much always crash the game.

badp

hell, it'd take more effort because the ghostwriter wouldn't be up to par with the lingo

user15026

@badp unless they were... raises hand

badp

or worse, she'd be and then she'd start arguing back

user15026

@badp hahaha nah, I don't argue ever

badp

12:29 AM

(my choice of gender there is absolutely completely 100% random, why are you asking?)

user15026

I just said "I" based oin my hand raising

badp

I'd already half-written that sentence before you got the drop on me, and I'd already half-written the next sentence before I realized

it's like just spurts of writing efforts with casual skimming in between. It's the way the internet works!

Mana

in the future, any sentence that has arbitrary genders in it should use female by default.

badp

The only write-only place in the world

Mana

I think Google Code Jam did that

Lazers

12:31 AM

0

Q: Fallout New Vegas mods to make it more similar to the original Fallout games

I'm looking for mods to make New Vegas play more like the original Fallout games. Not necessarily zooming the camera really far out, but I'd like the combat to be more turn-based if possible, and I'd like stealthy character builds to actually be viable in the game without having to use Stealth Bo...

Mana

which was pretty cool.

Wipqozn

@Mana I'd prefer to come up with a gender neutral word.

I suggest "Wipqozn"

badp

I don't honestly see anything sexist in the "male by default" convention for it is just that, a grammatical convention.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@wipqozn only orthogonally.

badp

(Italian works that way, anyway.)

user20683

12:32 AM

@badp English is weird

Mana

@badp there's nothing sexist about it, it's just kinda interesting to see what reactions you get when you use "she" instead

user15026

@badp grins I am sneaky

badp

@Mana I noticed that sometimes people would use "he" or "she" rather interchangeably when talking about one average random person

(and... that doesn't concern me and isn't even what I'm talking about)

Wipqozn

@Mana I had a Professor that randomly switched between using he and she. We eventually asked why and he then told us it's the best solution he's come up with since English lacks a gender neutral equivalent.

Also, anyone that suggests using "they" is a monster.

They is plural. It's not a replacement for he or she.

badp

(when you make up a person for a thought experiment, if you want to assign a gender to that person... who cares?)

user15026

12:34 AM

@Wipqozn we have some created ones used by some groups, but all of them retain a sound-set that seems to still recall he and she, and they all sound icky to me

badp

...to be 100% fair, in formal situations in Italian you either talk to people "socially superior to you" (like, say, teacher or old unfamiliar people) in third feminine or in second plural

Ktash

@Wipqozn They is only plural in traditional or strict english, however conversation english allows it :P

Wipqozn

Surely there must be some old latin word we can twist around to make use of.

user20683

Se?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@wipqozn singular they has a 700 year history. Stop following the instructions of an uptight 1790s schoolmarm.

3

Ktash

12:35 AM

Gender neutrality in English

Gender-neutral language is a form of linguistic prescriptivism that aims to minimize assumptions about the gender or biological sex of people referred to in speech or writing. This article discusses aspects of gender neutrality as they relate to the English language. Rationale Proponents of gender-neutral language argue that the use of gender-specific language often implies male superiority or reflects an unequal state of society. According to The Handbook of English Linguistics, generic masculine pronouns and gender-specific job titles are instances "where English linguistic convention ha...

pick one

user20683

@LessPop_MoreFizz points and I buy you a beer if we should meet.

Ktash

See also

LessPop_MoreFizz

Singular they is good enough for Shakespeare, it is good enough for me.

user15026

@LessPop_MoreFizz amen to that

badp

is "themself" actually a word that exists?

Ktash

12:37 AM

yes

badp

ewrgh

Ktash

themself and themselves

Wipqozn

@LessPop_MoreFizz I was unaware of this. I just thought it was a recent thing.

Ktash

comes from singular they

user15026

All of the invented ones make me irritated

Ktash

12:38 AM

@Wipqozn See also

user15026

Also, I mainly see them as written things. I wonder if anyone actually says them

Ktash

Unrelated: Anyone have experience troubleshooting what I think is an SSD issue?

@AshleyNunn I wouldn't. They bother me too though, so I'm biased

user15026

@Ktash They make me twich

LessPop_MoreFizz

> If any single person is responsible for this male-centric usage, it’s Anne Fisher, an 18th-century British schoolmistress and the first woman to write an English grammar book, according to the sociohistorical linguist Ingrid Tieken-Boon van Ostade. Fisher’s popular guide, “A New Grammar” (1745), ran to more than 30 editions, making it one of the most successful grammars of its time. More important, it’s believed to be the first to say that the pronoun he should apply to both sexes.

nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-onlanguage-t.html

The prohibition on singular they is literally the work of one uptight 18th century school mistress.

badp

What's the situation like in German?

LessPop_MoreFizz

12:43 AM

@badp as with all things in German, fiendishly complicated and full of hyphens.

Wipqozn

@LessPop_MoreFizz TIL

and knowledge is power!

LessPop_MoreFizz

Next time you hear somebody use a singular they, please don't be that asshole and correct them.

Because prescriptivism is literally bullshit.

StrixVaria

PRESCRIPTIVE GRAMMAR 4 LYFE

Wipqozn

@LessPop_MoreFizz Well, I never was that asshole. I just bitch about it in close company when the issue arises.

badp

I don't honestly care until you say "themself"

then you're wrong

Ktash

12:45 AM

@badp What if they themself use it to describe themselves?

Wipqozn

but now I can just complain about the obvious.

Ktash

:P

Wipqozn

I just want something to complain about.

badp

@Ktash You are wrong

You used the word that makes you wrong

I do not need to answer!

It even gets an official rating on the @StrixVaria official Gir system

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp themselves is generally used as a singular in my experience. Themself feels awkward in a way all other singular they's do not.

badp

12:46 AM

Jun 3 at 1:51, by StrixVaria

Also "themself" makes me cringe so bad.

This is basically 1 gir

Mana

tharself

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Yeah, I'd much rather see it plural all the way

Ktash

@Mana Thar she blows?

badp

but I'm no native speaker so what I like counts only so much

@Ktash Did you mean... Thar they blows?

Ktash

> Call me Ishmael

badp

12:49 AM

(The more I think about it the more I agree with Anne Fisher)

Ktash

Jun 20 at 15:23, by badp

Wrong

badp

@Ktash Yes, you are wrong.

Thanks for reminding me.

LessPop_MoreFizz

DATA ACCEPTED: @BADP IS AN UPTIGHT SCHOOLMISTRESS

7

Ktash

@badp fixed :P

badp

They who disagree is a weird person.

Ktash

12:52 AM

@badp That was placeholder while I did it proper

badp

Mar 13 '12 at 0:11, by Ktash

or am I just borked?

Ktash

Feb 9 '11 at 23:29, by badp

it's not just wrong, it's dangerously wrong, because it kinda sounds true!

Jun 6 at 21:52, by badp

Okay, I was very much wrong

Wipqozn

Also, it's finally happened.

badp

Yep, you were very much wrong

It's okay to admit it

Ktash

alright, I'm done. 'Bout time for food

badp

12:55 AM

We don't think any less of you

Wipqozn

The Bridge has arguing about proper word choice. It doesn't get much more pedantic than that.

Sterno

Just think of all the steam summer sale cards I would have gotten if I'd bought RPG Maker!

Ktash

@Wipqozn This argument has happened a few times already on the Bridge

well, discussion

Wipqozn

@Ktash Oh, well, I can't keep track.

StrixVaria

@Sterno You should have bought the 4-pack.

Sterno

12:55 AM

@StrixVaria 4 times the cards! It all makes sense now!

badp

I'll just keep using singular they hoping to cause enough cringing until even they who like it changes their mind :P

StrixVaria

I'm going to type out "he or she" from now on whenever @LessPop_MoreFizz is in the room.

2

user20683

is it better style to use for (i =0; i < x; i++) or for (i in x) in javascript?

Sterno

Everyone keeps stealing @OrigamiRobot's Data Accepted shtick, without pretending to be a robot themselves. Let's see some follow through, people!

user20683

I prefer the second since Python

Wipqozn

12:57 AM

@WorldEngineer Python <3

badp

@WorldEngineer "in" has the bad habit of iterating over all attributes of an object, not its elements

StrixVaria

@WorldEngineer You can do "in" on an int value?

user20683

@StrixVaria arbitrary examples

Ktash

@Wipqozn You were involved at least one of the times lol

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Sterno everyone thinks I'm a puppet, close enough.

murgatroid99

12:58 AM

@WorldEngineer underscorejs.org/#each

Private Pansy

@WorldEngineer If you're iterating over an object, use the latter. If you're iterating over an array, the former

Sterno

@LessPop_MoreFizz DATA ACCEPTED: @LESSPOP_MOREFIZZ IS A... oh damn it

murgatroid99

@PrivatePansy And if you are iterating over an object, you want to filter the keys with obj.hasOwnProperty(key)

Ktash

Depends on whether or not you believe Crockford is always right, and JSLint is god

@murgatroid99 Depends...

murgatroid99

@Ktash You almost never want iterable keys in the prototype

Private Pansy

12:59 AM

@Ktash ... if you, or any external library has actually modified the prototype

badp

for(i in 2){ alert(i) } doesn't do anything, but it also doesn't error out

Ktash

also, Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call(obj, key) is better

murgatroid99

@badp right, because the Integer object 2 has no iterable properties

Ktash

@murgatroid99 null safety really

badp

argh, IE10 doesn't have dir

murgatroid99

1:00 AM

@Ktash well, yes

Ktash

ah, not me, nvm

Wipqozn

@Ktash My word. I'm involve in all the controversy.

badp

@murgatroid99 not much of an object, is it? :P

Ktash

@badp Use Interger(2) :)

then you have an object

badp

ah! I guess Javascript has that much in common with Java

murgatroid99

1:02 AM

@Ktash you can call functions on 2

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yes, but it does conversions

It is basically doing Integer(2) everywhere you call a function

badp

>> a = Integer(2)
"'Integer' is undefined"

murgatroid99

> (2).toString()
"2"

Ktash

Ah, Number()

Private Pansy

@badp Number, not Integer

Ktash

1:03 AM

sorry

Private Pansy

JavaScript only have one numeral type

murgatroid99

As I said, you don't need to box to get a number object

Ktash

@murgatroid99 In the console, try to assign a value to 2's object ;)

murgatroid99

@Ktash mutability has nothing to do with type

well, not nothing

Ktash

The type of 2 is a raw number, not an object, and has no methods

murgatroid99

1:04 AM

@Ktash Then how did I call toString directly on 2?

Ktash

when you do 2.toString() what that compiles to is Number(2).toString()

murgatroid99

@Ktash Then what is your point? If everything is boxed automatically, what's the difference?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Mutability, performance, and efficiency in compiler. In most cases, things that can be overlooked

but, the more you know

badp

for what it's wroth

>> (2).toString == Number.toString
false

Ktash

Number.prototype.toString

badp

1:06 AM

ah, okay.

Ktash

Also, you might need __proto__ for that equality to work, I can't remember

badp

>> Number.prototype.toString == Number.toString
false

obvious

murgatroid99

@Ktash but Number(2) isn't any more mutable than 2, as far as I can tell

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Assign it to a var

murgatroid99

And typeof returns "number" for both

Ktash

1:08 AM

then you have a number object

Also, relevant

murgatroid99

@Ktash assign what to a var?

user15026

...I go respond to one email and you guys are talking in gibberish

murgatroid99

@Ktash what on that page?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Everything. It's just a fun JS page

murgatroid99

@Ktash OK, but I still have no idea what difference you are talking about between boxed and unboxed numbers

badp

1:10 AM

Are you talking about this?

Numbers and dots

may 1 , 2012

A JavaScript syntax oddity with Numbers and Dots:

// Ok, you may have seen wrapping a number literal with parens to call Number methods
(42).toFixed(2); // "42.00"

// And it is understandable that without parens you get a syntax error
42.toFixed(2); // SyntaxError: identifier starts immediately after numeric literal

// But numbers with decimals work fine without parens (WTF?)
42.888.toFixed(2); // "42.89"

// And whole numbers with two dots work as well (WTF?)

Because Python works very much like that

Ktash

►

badp

@murgatroid99 I guess the problem is allowing 42. to be a valid number with an empty decimal part

Wipqozn

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss I'm orbiting the muuuuun (cc @fbueckert)

murgatroid99

@Ktash OK, I'm not going to watch a 35 minute presentation to get a clue of what you're talking about

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Heh, give me just a sec lol

But if you are interested in JS, I'd highly recommend that talk

murgatroid99

1:12 AM

@badp that's just a syntax thing

@badp If you have a number followed by one dot and then something, it's ambiguous whether you're getting a member of the number object or starting the decimal part of the number

Lazers

0

Q: Is there anyway to get the outfit on the box-art?

On the cover box-art of AC:NL, the boy character has an outfit that has caught my eye. I assumed that the outfit would appear in the Able Sister's shop sooner or later, but it hasn't. Is there a way I can get this outfit?

animal-crossing-new-leaf

0

Q: How can you make Minecraft look like it did back in the Alpha stages?

Minecraft Alpha used to have a brighter texture. How can you apply these bright, vivid colors to today's Minecraft? I am aware that there is a Biomes O' Plenty biome which is like this, but I want it to be like this everywhere I go. Turning up the brightness does not achieve the desired effect. ...

minecraft

StrixVaria

@murgatroid99 I remember implementing a lexer. Ugh.

badp

wtfjs.com/2011/07/26/iteration-demoralization

This answers @WorldEngineer's original query, sort of

Ktash

@badp If you do for (var name in names) it fixes that problem

badp

@Ktash it still iterates over 0 1 2 instead of 'dan' 'anthony' 'pavel' doesn't it?

murgatroid99

1:15 AM

@badp Yeah, global scoping by default is one of the many things I hate about Javascript

@badp but it doesn't put name in the global namespace

StrixVaria

Can we please just all switch to Dart already?

badp

@murgatroid99 but that was the original query's point

Private Pansy

@StrixVaria Not until the browsers do

badp

19 mins ago, by World Engineer

is it better style to use for (i =0; i < x; i++) or for (i in x) in javascript?

StrixVaria

@PrivatePansy Microsoft is literally ruining the Internet.

badp

1:16 AM

19 mins ago, by World Engineer

I prefer the second since Python

murgatroid99

@badp Actually, the original question is independent of the difference between name and var name

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Here's the relevant part of the talk

badp

@murgatroid99 Yes, that was not the original query's point; I'm talking about the first half of the post

murgatroid99

@badp And the first should still be use because of iterable properties in the prototype, which is what started this whole conversation in the first place

Brant

If you use for..in, remember that it's possible to augment Object.prototype, which means some other random script on the page might have added a property to every object, which your for will iterate over.

Ktash

1:17 AM

Object like vs actual Objects

badp

sigh

Brant

So use object.hasOwnProperty inside your for..in to guard against that. Or just use a library that does it for you, like $.each or _.each

Ktash

That is why most scripts don't modify Object.prototypeanymore

badp

the whole point I wanted to stress is that Javascript's "for(x in y)" doesn't behave like it does in Python, or in any sensible language, and it's a false friend

LessPop_MoreFizz

badp

1:18 AM

That was all

LessPop_MoreFizz

I AM IN MARYLAND, NOT KANSAS.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz then pick your server manually

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp That will make it worse, kansas is part of the problem.

this connection is sourced out of kansas for some reason that makes no sense.

murgatroid99

@badp yes, but importantly, neither does for(var x in y)

badp

smashes head on the keyboard

Ktash

1:21 AM

It always gives you the keys to whatever array or object you pass in

enables a bit more flexibility on accepting either, if you ask me

though you obviously lose convenience

badp

@Ktash I forget what does Python do on dictionaries; I think it also gives you keys

Ktash

Yeah, probably

JS just always does that

murgatroid99

@badp yes, it does. But it gives you values for lists

Ktash

and I think that's what Python does, but my Python is rusty

badp

@murgatroid99 yes. And you can actually implement a generator to make your python object iterate in any way you like

murgatroid99

1:23 AM

Honestly, my suggestion would be to just use Underscore.js. It lets you avoid all of those problems

@badp right

Ktash

@badp You can do that ES6 :P

and do getters and setters

badp

>>> class Numbers:
	def __iter__(self):
		i = 0
		while True:
			yield i
			i+=1


>>> for i in Numbers():
	print(i)


0
1
2
3
4
5
6
...

@Ktash can't come soon enough :)

I'm glad Javascript is evolving for the better

Ktash

Anyone know where tomb raider actually installers? I doubt the game is only 19mb

StrixVaria

@Ktash It was like 10GB for me.

Ktash

the .exe in the SteamApps folder is only 19mb for me

murgatroid99

1:26 AM

@badp well, with something that simple you probably just want the generator

badp

@murgatroid99 we were discussing objects anyway.

murgatroid99

@badp true

Ktash

gah, found it all. It's in that folder, just not exe

which means I can't make Ultramon ignore it

badp

__iter__ being a thing that can be modified was very much my point; I'm happy to hear it's coming to browsers worldwide sometimes in the next 8 years D:

Ktash

@badp

badp

1:30 AM

please Internet don't screw this up

Ben Brocka

@badp Is that the rebranded bad zombie game?

badp

@BenBrocka yes

It was already featured in a flash deal and climbed up in the top sellers

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka Oh, that's the one that went live and then was pulled and all that?

badp

It's the War Z

Ben Brocka

Opened the steam store just to vote for L4D2

badp

1:32 AM

from the makers of Big Rigs

Ktash

Also, here's what ES6 looks like right now

Ben Brocka

@badp wait seriously?

badp

@BenBrocka seriously

I was just as surprised

Ben Brocka

Oh wow that explains so much

StrixVaria

Thank you for mentioning that it's The War Z. I doubt I'd have bought it, but now I know not to buy it.

badp

1:33 AM

Now that would've been a Steam moment

StrixVaria

Does it still have pay to respawn sooner?

badp

@StrixVaria no idea.

metacritic.com/game/pc/infestation-survivor-stories

Sterno

I dislike that Steam is giving people an incentive to vote even when they have no interest in any of the games.

badp

@BenBrocka metacritic.com/person/sergey-titov?filter-options=games

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp Voting for the bad game.

StrixVaria

1:36 AM

> Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is so pathetic it makes a sandpaper-and-vinegar enema sound positively delightful.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz I'm just circling it out in surprise that it's even there to begin with

StrixVaria

@badp I wonder why the metacritic score isn't showing up on the game page.

Ktash

@Sterno Only if you're "level 5 on steam"... whatever that means

StrixVaria

If Steam censors bad scores, that's pretty low.

badp

@StrixVaria You do?

Sterno

1:39 AM

@Ktash I'm level Awesome.

StrixVaria

The game dev shouldn't have any say whether it shows up.

Steam should show it for all games.

badp

@StrixVaria I think it's sufficient for game devs to not link to their metacritic page. A lot of games don't do that

@StrixVaria Tsk. You say that as if it'd stifle sales

"Can it possibly be this bad? It's just three bucks! Let's find out!"

They who think this way is probably going to know what they're going for into however

at the end of the day does it probably would boost their bottom line though and they who care for the future of the industry doesn't want that

lest EA starts bribing reviewers into giving their games one star

and locks all the important game items... behind DLC... for... three... dollars. Fuck.

Ktash

anybody here get brave new world?

Wipqozn

@Ktash Yes.

Ktash

how is it?

Wipqozn

1:44 AM

I have to play it, but the people I know who have palyed it like it.

They made some pretty major changes.

They completely redid the cultural victory, and also added a world congress and redid how the UN works.

Ktash

all positives in my book

Wipqozn

@Ktash If you're someone who likes going for non-conquest victories I'd say it's a must buy.

Ktash

conquest victories take too long unless you start off killing people right away

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka Are you seeing the twitch chat right now?

Ktash

I'm in

Ben Brocka

1:48 AM

@StrixVaria the 8 billion soulfists?

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka Morrigan is stupid.

Ben Brocka

Yeah

StrixVaria

I get that it's a competitive game, and that since this strategy works it's completely legit that he's using it.

But Morrigan is stupid.

Ktash

thanks for the insights @Wipqozn

Ben Brocka

Yeah. Morrigan isn't very fun to watch

Love seeing Zero. Actual skill and risk in there

StrixVaria

1:51 AM

I haven't watched much recently, but I did see JWong get wrecked by Zero in his last match.

JUSTIN WONGGGGGGGGG

Ben Brocka

niiiice

Brant

Will Brave New World change my opinion that Civ 4 was perfectly fine and that 5 is unnecessary?

endi t!

YESSSSSS

No more spam

1:53 AM

@Ktash No problem!

StrixVaria

WE GOT OURSELVES A REAL MATCH

Ben Brocka

and I didn't think that last match would be topped

Wipqozn

@Brant I'm not sure.

I just view 4 and 5 as choices.

4 and 5 are both excellent.

@Ktash ACtually, did you buy it yet?

If not, I just remember I think I have a link that details most of the changes.

I'd just need to track it down.

Ben Brocka

this isn't good

Wipqozn

@BenBrocka @StrixVaria What are you two watching?

StrixVaria

1:55 AM

@Wipqozn twitch.tv/srkevo1

Wipqozn

@StrixVaria ooo,I like that game.

Ben Brocka

take er out!

StrixVaria

KILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL HIM

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

RESET

Ben Brocka

oh shit

Wipqozn

@Brant @Ktash Article talking about all the changes, A video which does the same

StrixVaria

1:57 AM

Wow this match.

Ben Brocka

shit

Wipqozn

Oh, is this that charity that Nintendo's Legal department originally tried to mess up by stopping brawl?

StrixVaria

WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Ben Brocka

damn

Wipqozn

Until the PR or whoever was like "legal, wtf, charity"

Ben Brocka

1:58 AM

listen to that chant

Wipqozn

Isn't Wong the guy that always wins?

You'll need to forgive my ignorance since I don't really follow professional UMVC3.

Ben Brocka

ChrisG is. I mean they're both amazing, that's why they're there

but ChrisG (who just lost) is the one everyone expects to win and kinda hates (his Morrigan is spammy as fuck)

Transcript for