The Bridge

Q: Is it possible to play Scrolls offline?

Wow, all the Xbone fanboys are lamenting their precious sharing plan is gone.

Grumpy Lazers

1

Since Scrolls have a single player component I was wondering if it is possible to play the game without an Internet connection? In Minecraft (from the same developer) you can select offline mode in the login screen but I can't seem to find a similar option in Scrolls.

scrolls

0

Q: Lord Darius his lore

I want everybody their honest opinions. There currently is a debate going on whether Darius and Garen are brothers. What do you guys think about that? Personally i think its more than possible since they actually have a shout that is almost the same. + Garen and Darius would be a prime example of...

league-of-legends

Wipqozn

@GrumpyLazers We should set-up a synonym of scrolls to elder-scrolls.

@fbueckert Yes, but he's the main character in the numbered games.

@fbueckert Yeah. I really don't think that would have gone as well as they think

3:10 PM

@BenBrocka Most likely, I suspect they were conflating it to the PS3's gamesharing.

Which got nipped in the bud after it got out of hand.

When, really, most likely it would've been locked and restricted to the extreme.

Yeah. And I mean, you're staking clearly invasive DRM, online requirements and BS region locking with a possible, vaguely detailed sharing plan which 95% of people clearly intend to abuse for non "family" purposes

@GrumpyLazers I'm glad @agent86 closed this. I would've hit the close button so fast.

@BenBrocka How much you want to bet it works like the current family aspect of Xbox live?

@fbueckert I'm not familiar with it. Is that just a family account sort of thing?

Either they're whining about that, or, "Being able to re-sell our digital games would totally have lowered game prices!"

@BenBrocka I'm not too familiar, either. I do recall there being a family pack of some sort.

@fbueckert The "reselling digital games" thing was only once and to someone on your friends list for 30 days, right? And it was really just giving the game right, you'd have to work out payment elsewhere?

3:15 PM

@BenBrocka I don't think MS provided enough info to figure out exactly how it would work.

But the fanboys just took it and ran with the best case scenario.

@fbueckert they didn't provide enough info about anything to figure out how anything worked

Honestly "like Steam but better" wasn't such an evil plan to follow

...on paper

Most of the "features" of this bold new DRM future seem to exist purely in the minds of /r/xbox

@BenBrocka And Kuchera's strange mind.

"Like steam but better!" "How" "FUCK YOU IT'S NOT DONE YET JUST BUY IT"

3:16 PM

@BenBrocka "Game resale, lending, sharing"

I don't see why publishers should ever get a cut of used game sales.

@badp "Game resale*, lending **, sharing ****"

@fbueckert I don't see why GameStop has more rights to that to be honest

@fbueckert It's violation of the first sale doctrine that they do, actually

This "innovation" is just propping up failing industry practices, and used games are being used as the scapegoat.

@badp They don't.

They just built their business model around it.

Which, apparently, people like.

3:17 PM

@badp They do when they own the game. They own the game because someone sold it to them

First sale doctrine means whoever owns the product has 100% right to resell it

@BenBrocka You never actually buy a game, even when it physical. You can only own the piece of plastic itself. </pedant>

@badp See, that's where game "licenses" and physical disks conflict.

The EULAs are scary but they're also mostly unenforceable and illegal

I do agree that it sucks to have your rights removed from you, even if it's legal

Just because an ELUA says something doesn't actually make it true or legal

3:19 PM

@badp You either buy a copy of the game or a licence to use the game. Either of which can be resold.

@BenBrocka Software is protected by copyright no matter what EULAs say

@badp It's not. First sale doctrine trumps EULA

@badp Sale isn't protected by copyright, only redistribution and other things

Is today over yet

As an object of copyright, the only owner is the creator (and who this creator explicitly passes ownership to)

I don't even care about hometime, I just want it to no longer be today

3:20 PM

> Copyright law grants a copyright owner an exclusive right "to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending." 17 U.S.C. 106(3). This is called "distribution right" and differs from the copyright owner's "reproduction right" which involves making copies of the copyrighted works.

Doesn't matter who made it, sale is explicitly different from other copyright protections due to First Sale

@badp This is the argument the movie and music industries are making.

You gain the distribution right of a particular copy once you purchase it. The copyright owner has no claim to any further proceeds

Never mind that they're screwing over the artists in the process.

Yeah, because the artists are giving the publishers complete ownership for an exceedingly small cut of the proceeds

and that's where the XBO was and remains evil: forcing you to get a publisher

But by conflating your purchase as only a "license", they're trying to bring copyright law into the process, because it's more advantageous for them.

This is incredibly consumer unfriendly, and isn't something anyone should stand still for.

3:23 PM

@fbueckert but it is a license of the content itself. On a printed book you own the printed paper, not the words

You buy something. It's yours to do with, whatever you want.

Wrong

You don't get to photocopy it

You don't get to type it all up on your computer and put it for others to download

You don't get to erase the author's name and replace it with your own

As long as you're not infringing the copyright, yes, it's right.

@BenBrocka Last I checked, courts in the US have found in the other direction.

I don't care what companies say I can and can't do with what I've bought. As long as I'm not making money on it, I'll do whatever I want with it.

3:24 PM

Those things explicitly infringe the publishing/distribution/reproduction/moral rights of the creator

@fbueckert .. and that's where the recent ECJ comes in and rules that - in the EU at least - if you want to "only licence" your software, the licences are as re-sellable as physical goods.

@MartinSojka And, BOY, do companies HATE that.

It means they can't double/triple/quadruple dip for the exact same thing.

somebody needs to upvote fredley

@fbueckert You might get away with it, sure, but it doesn't make it right

(I've photocopied some university books too, mind you.)

@badp Companies might not agree with me, and they've bought laws to make it wrong, but that doesn't make it morally wrong to do so.

3:28 PM

@fbueckert I guess I'll have to accept the fact that you have a moral system that isn't mine

While I do love myself some customer rights, I think you're going way too far in that direction

@badp Probably for the best; I feel rather strongly about my rights, regardless of what companies think I should have.

@fbueckert I think you're wrong in talking about "companies" in an era where publishers are - hopefully - becoming increasingly irrelevant, but that's just what I think.

Mostly what I'm referring to is physical goods; digital is slightly different, but it should be cheaper than a physical copy for the limitations.

@badp that's not the future MS paints. And that's what puzzles me about people claiming the Xbone's DRM was a step forward to a digital future. It's not, because to MS, a publisher is still required, and a publisher is still someone who prints physical discs

For example, I bought my PS3. I can do whatever the hell I want to it. Crack it, homebrew it, doesn't matter.

3:34 PM

11 mins ago, by badp

and that's where the XBO was and remains evil: forcing you to get a publisher

It's mine.

@fbueckert The PS3 is more complicated than that, because you sure as hell can't license the hardware in it

It's not something protected by copyright

@badp Nope. Doesn't matter. It's mine.

@badp Doesn't stop Sony from trying.

Why do you think they got rid of Linux?

Someone figured out how to crack the system wide open.

That's irrelevant really

They're using the anti-circumvention clauses in copyright to prevent reverse engineering and bypassing it.

3:36 PM

@fbueckert You're confusing the order of events. First Sony pissed off their customers by removing the capability of running OtherOS (Linux), then some of those pissed off ex-customers cracked PS3 open in retaliation.

@MartinSojka I'm pretty sure the removal came after a proof of concept showed they could crack it wide open.

OtherOS was being removed anyway through the slimmer consoles

@fbueckert We knew how to crack it for some time, yes. Nobody bothered, because there was no need to. You could always run Linux.

and then some pissed off consumers took down PSN in retaliation

which AFAIK never supported OtherOS to begin with, right?

3:38 PM

@badp and that justifies them removing it from all older console models how?

but all of this is irrelevant to what rights you get to have on a piece of software

and now, ever since that, console manufacturers have a "no class action lawsuit" clause in their EULA

@kalina Hell, even Steam has that now

@Powerlord Companies patch security holes in their software all the time. Go cry at Apple for closing jailbreaking holes in iOS.

@kalina I think for sony the no class action is only for the network, not the console

3:39 PM

@Powerlord they didn't actually force it, they stated "if you get the latest patch, it will remove it, you don't have to get the latest patch if you don't want to though. PS: not getting the latest patch may stop you from playing newer games"

it was still a user choice

Unless it's the same EULA, I'm not actually sure come to think of it

Q: Questions about Beta Software

@kalina The problem was that they shouldn't have to make that choice.

Sepia Lazers

-1

I just saw a question about the Steam Trading Card service (here) and I was thinking, "This system is still in beta. This system may change entirely and the answers might end up being wrong". I see these ways to remedy situations like this: First option is to ignore all questions relating to ...

discussion beta-phase

Honestly, OtherOS's entire existence was scummy as it was only there for Sony to try to pass the PS3 off as a computer for some tax break or other.

of course they should, if their console is a pirates' haven, nobody will make games for it and it dramatically diminishes the value of the platform

3:41 PM

The whole discussion about software and what rights you have to it is completely independent to contract law or specific companies, it's something inherent to the creation of the software itself (or anything else covered by copyright)

Every piece of text, drawing, programs you create is by default protected like this

@kalina Not getting the patch stopped you from playing any networked games on PSN, not just the newer ones.

It's important to know what rights you have on it and what others get and don't get to do

@badp In this case, this is why I prefer physical copies.

Honestly, I didn't care about OtherOS, but that didn't make what they did any less shady.

@fbueckert Physical or digital it is completely totally absolutely authoritatively perfectly 100.00% irrelevant

3:42 PM

I'm sure it was just new games, I could be wrong - don't really care either way since I hate consoles

I can do what I want with them. Trade them, sell them, Will-it-blend them, whatever.

They shouldn't have included OtherOS to begin with

@kalina No, because you can no longer connect to PSN if your firmware is out of date.

Immediately after it launched a bunch of people bought up a bunch of (heavily subsidized) PS3s to use them as number crunchers, Sony probably wasn't happy with that either

@Powerlord solution: PC

3:43 PM

@badp I disagree. My copy is mine to do with whatever I like. It doesn't give me the right to copy it, but neither does it give the creator the ability to dictate what I can and can't do with it.

It's not a one way street, where the creator can dictate what is done with his product.

@fbueckert Yes, actually yes it does. Just because the book doesn't enforce that on you, it doesn't mean the author gives up all rights on it

@fbueckert see I don't understand the whole physical vs digital argument because I've always seen everything as a license rather than a product

You are being one hell of an argument for people to lock down their stuff with EULAs and whatnot

If he sells it, he gives up rights to that copy.

@badp, I can still roll levels with the latest CCS patch

3:44 PM

@agent86 wat

I had put off patching it, but I did this morning, and it seems like it still works...

@badp That doesn't work, either. The vast majority of it is unenforcable and probably illegal, if they tried.

@agent86 Okay, what exactly do you do? You press play, you don't like the board, now what?

@badp I press the "back" android softkey, and it takes me back to the board

@fbueckert Doesn't stop The Man from trying!

Shotgun Ninja

3:46 PM

@agent86 CCS? Cardcaptor Sakura?

@badp I can also open the lower left hand menu and use the "quit" button

oh wow

I guess you have to do it before you make any single move

@badp oh world of warcraft?

@ShotgunNinja something far more insidious, deadly, and dangerous. I dare not name it.

@badp And that's exactly what I don't accept. I don't care what the EULA says. I have a product, it's mine to do with what I want, and the seller can scream to high heaven for all I care.

3:46 PM

@badp yes, you can't have moved first.

okay, that's a "hidden feature" if I ever saw one

@BenBrocka So, is Virtue's Last Reward on PSPlus yet?

@fbueckert but it's not a matter of EULAs

@badp yeah, so now do you see why I extol its virtues? :)

@fbueckert you know that by opening the product you've accepted the eula right?

3:47 PM

If I gave you a program without EULAs attached to it you still don't get to copy or redistribute it or anything!

@Powerlord Not when I last checked (last week). Which is weird, the PS3 ones dropped, which is when I checked

Do you know why the BSD "EULA" is a thing that exists?

I have no idea if PS3 and Vita have the same schedule though

Because you have to explicitly give away the rights you don't intend to keep

@BenBrocka I still think playing 999 first helps you understand the plot of VLR... plus VLR spoils the main plot points of 999.

3:48 PM

@badp Providing a physical copy gives away unalienable rights, whether you like it or not.

The whole point why open source is a thing that exists is because software by default is not open source

Which shouldn't be surprise since one of the non-player characters from 999 is in this game (Clover)

That copy, I can burn it, stab it, slash it, do whatever the hell I want to it, and the seller has no recourse.

@fbueckert It doesn't matter! It doesn't! At all! You're confusing the piece of plastic with what's on it!

@badp No, I'm not.

3:49 PM

Fine!

@Powerlord I'll probably read a synopsis or something. I have enough games to play before I track down a copy of 999 for DS, but I might as well play a free version. And the iOS one has zero gameplay so I'd rather just read something

@BenBrocka I still think it's dumb they removed the puzzles.

I still think you should ~~emulate it~~ find a copy of it somehow.

I haven't heard that it runs pretty well in DeSmuME

How long is 999?

@BenBrocka I... don't remember. I want to say 10 hours.

Granted, a lot of 999 is unlocking all 6 endings and figuring out what you need to get the best ending.

Because, despite having "6 endings" there's only 1 true ending to the game.

That's a bit more than I intended to spend, unless I only really need to see the true ending

3:52 PM

The reason I say figuring out how to get the good ending is... wait, that's a spoiler.

Well, no, I can just tell you.

The order you pass through the rooms changes the dialogue.

Which is why I wonder how the iOS version of 999 works, since the dialogue in the puzzle rooms is important.

From memory, there are only 14 different combinations of rooms in 999.

I may have that wrong, though

4:23 PM

Xbox One's 'Family Sharing' would've only been a 15-45 minute demo, according to this "heartbroken MS employee": http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

Tweeted by Babylonian on June 20, 2013 at 4:18 PM

This still seems like BS. IF it was really, seriously THAT EASY and MS didn't even attempt to demonstrate it before canceling everything they're too incompetent to pull it off anyway

@Powerlord Ehhh I'll just find a Wiki or something and spoil 999 for myself

Q: Does my PS3 not enjoy the summer?

@BenBrocka It also tears out the biggest advantage that the fanboys figured would save the system.

Grumpy Lazers

2

I am currently playing The Last of Us on my PS3 Slim and have been running into various technical troubles. The first being the infamous auto-save bug, the second being the game loading forever (I don't even get as far as the Main Menu), the third being the PS3 no longer loading anything ingame,...

ps3 hardware

0

Q: i have a problem with the first temple and i have a question for anyone who reads this

i was wondering if you die at the final fight in skyward sword do you get to see what happens or is it a regular game-over? i have tried to get to the end of the game but i cant find the boss battle for the first temple. i have tried looking everywhere in the temple but Girahim isn't there.

zelda-skyward-sword

Also reading this, the employee is so clueless. Used games are not the problem.

Massive costs for games are.

Sconibulus

...

"We've always been for the gamer"

@GrumpyLazers How is this a problem to solve?

Unionhawk

4:28 PM

@GrumpyLazers What?

@fbueckert I like how used games only recently somehow became a problem

> We at Microsoft have amazing plans for Xbox One that will make it an amazing experience for both gamers and entertainment consumers alike. I stand by the belief that Playstation 4 is Xbox 360 part 2, while Xbox One is trying to revolutionize entertainment consumption. For people who don't want these amazing additions, like Don said we have a console for that and it's called Xbox 360.

Yup. Clueless.

@BenBrocka They're a convenient scapegoat, same with piracy.

Remember when the SNES bombed because you could just resell games and even take the whole game and save files to play with your friends? RIP man. I'm so glad the Dreamcast's DRM made it the ultimate, piracy free system it is today.

Why change your business model when you can just blame something outside your control for your problems?

> I stand by the belief that Playstation 4 is Xbox 360 part 2

Sconibulus

4:32 PM

they don't seem to get that when prices go up, sales go down

There's no way that's a real MS employee, that's just rabid fanboy talk

Wipqozn

@GrumpyLazers When I see questions like this with upvotes I just assume the OP has a sock puppet.

@Wipqozn It looks to be more two questions in one.

Wipqozn

@fbueckert Yeah, I'm not sure what he's asking. I'm voting to close as NARQ.

> The motto around the offices for the family plan was "It's the console gaming equivalent to spotify and pandora" it was a social network within itself!

There's absolutely no way it was anything remotely like either service

4:37 PM

@BenBrocka If it was fanboy talk, then their "family" sharing would sound much better.

@fbueckert read the above statement, it DOES sound way too good to be true

to be pandora or spotify of gaming it would have to basically give you piles of games for free at a whim. That's nothing remotely like the explanation we were given and there's no way they were going to give such access to non-F2P games

@BenBrocka I don't use Spotify or Pandora.

@BenBrocka Yeah, publishers would have their heads.

It's got the hallmarks of an employee completely invested in their current scheme.

Spotify is a service you pay for and you get streaming access to tons of music, "unlimited" except by their catalog and whether you have a subscription

Sony's game streaming thing actually sounds much closer to "spotify for gaming" depending how they do it, but I assume you'll still purchase a licensefor a game and that lets you stream it, vs "pay 19.99 a month and get all streamed games forever"

I DO wish we had a lot more details on Sony's streaming though though. That's the one thing where Sony's about as clear as MS

@BenBrocka This would never work for publishers. It would be awesome for Sony, though.

The War Z is now renamed to "Infestation: Survivor Stories"

@fbueckert Yeah I assume they're going to do game-by-game licensing, but I really don't know

@fbueckert thank god I can stop reading "three letter word Z" and briefly wonder which is the shitty one and which is the okay but still just zombies one

4:45 PM

@BenBrocka They probably chose the name to gather from Day Z's customers, but they couldn't get their trademark in America, probably due to DayZ going, "Uh, what? It's a clone of our game. Go away."

@fbueckert also world war z

@BenBrocka That, too.

...their new logo is Day Z's but with red instead of black

MS should hire the War Z crew

So it's still a completely plagiarized version of DayZ. Right down to their logo.

@fbueckert I don't think the plagiarism was going to go away ever