The Nineteenth Byte

Ginger

00:04

ಠ_ಠ

I leave for a day and yall start murdering people smh

lyxal

@Ginger we've also started commiting people too

Ginger

have you merged anyone?

@lyxal :D

I am smiling IRL

Adám

I have a life?

Ginger

like in your basement?

lyxal

@Ginger Another happy customer of Lyxal Analytics (tm)

Adám

00:11

@Ginger In my hands.

Ginger

You're either holding a child or about to sentence somebody to death

caird coinheringaahing

~~why not both?~~

Adám

You'd be surprised how much a newborn wants to be held.

Ginger

@cairdcoinheringaahing mafia bosses be like (definitely not speaking from experience)

Rydwolf Programs

02:29

Anyone know how to make VScode actually pay attention to editor.maxTokenizationLineLength?

I set it to like a hundred thousand and it still won't syntax highlight a line that's only like 4kb

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing I put "You don't need to know that" :P

Though I just checked and I did indeed enter my full name in my SE profile. Not that it's hard to figure out anyway, since it's in the copyright notice of most of my GitHub projects.

Rydwolf Programs

?

DLosc

You get +50 for verifying your email address, apparently

Rydwolf Programs

Not entirely sure but I feel like you have more than 151 network rep :p

DLosc

Oh, did it actually not connect to my network account? :P

Heh

Rydwolf Programs

02:38

Yeah apparently it didn't...but when I click on your account it takes me to the right network account?

A51's weird lol

DLosc

I must not have done the dark rituals correctly :P

Rydwolf Programs

Maybe has to do with email verification?

DLosc

@RydwolfPrograms As befits a site about aliens

I wonder if it has to do with how you log into StackExchange. I think I use my Google account. Maybe Area 51 doesn't like that?

Rydwolf Programs

Oh, maybe

DLosc

I wonder if there's a way to fix that. I'm willing to put in a nonzero amount of effort to do so, since it looks like commitments from people with a high amount of SE activity are more effective toward reaching the beta threshold.

Aiden Chow

02:43

i have no idea, it worked for me and i signed in with google account

Rydwolf Programs

lol A51 is now one of my top sites by rep

Aiden Chow

@RydwolfPrograms how is that even possible lol

Rydwolf Programs

Every follower in definition gets me rep :p

emanresu A

How much do you have? lol

Rydwolf Programs

Like 1200

I can edit people's proposals and view vote count totals :p

DLosc

02:56

@RydwolfPrograms Maybe it has to do with this:

Also i think it takes a day before your contributions show up on area51 after you link ur accounts — Anoushk Jun 17, 2022 at 9:35

Rydwolf Programs

Oh that makes sense

(well it doesn't but it fits with A51's kafkaesque brand of user experience design)

emanresu A

03:23

→ 46 messages moved to CG&CC-gaming

emanresu A

03:37

Challenge idea (posting here because idk if it's good / a duplicate): You have to map all previous answers' programs to their post index, possibly with a byte limit

DLosc

Could be fun

Aiden Chow

so like u take the program source as the input or what?

emanresu A

Yeah

@emanresuA (including your own answer)

Aiden Chow

i remember there was smth similar that input the user id and output the index of their answer, lemme try to find it real quick

34

Q: Which answer did this user write?

EDIT (Jan 19, 2022, 18:00 UTC): This challenge is now over. The winner is Citty with this Pyth answer. Congratulations! This is an answer-chaining challenge where each answer must take an integer \$N\$ as input and return the 1-indexed ID of the answer which was written by the user whose ID is \...

Jonah

04:09

Anyone have insight on why site traffic has declined so much over the last year or so: i.imgur.com/iFBUnN4.png

lyxal

04:42

could be that lots of people started going back to offices and having less time to procratinate on code golf

Procrastinate

Not procratinate

Nike Dattani

06:01

Clearly a lot of people here knew about the proposal for a new SE site about Programming Language Design but I wonder where it was advertised here? I didn't see it on the Meta site or in the last cuple days in this chat room.

Unrelated String

check the starboard :P

i think there was something about not getting to use meta directly for it though

Nike Dattani

Jan 27 at 16:32, by Rydwolf Programs

Quick update: Our site proposal for Programming Language Design and Implementation is doing great. However, we really need votes on questions. If you haven't followed yet, or if you've followed but haven't voted, we'd really appreciate some upvotes on questions currently between +1 and +9!

I see!

Thanks!

Unrelated String

np

Nike Dattani

It wasn't visible in the star board, I had to click on something to view earlier starred messages!

@RydwolfPrograms why is Area51 not visible in your profile here?

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Any idea why the bot works here but not here?

mousetail

07:25

Wow PLD already has 75% of the required committer reputation score. I thought that would be the most difficult part, but it seems like raw low-rep users is going to be the bottleneck

emanresu A

07:44

Clearly we need to teach a ton of people vyxal /hj

UndoneStudios

Woohoo PLD in commitment finally

Sandbox Posts

08:11

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Toggle Hangul Vowel Harmony (This post is partly self-plagiarized.) Objective Given a Hangul syllable, toggle its vowel harmony. Introduction to Hangul syllables Hangul(한글) is the Korean writing system invented by Sejong the Great. Hangul syllables are allocated in Unicode point U+AC00 – U+D7A3. ...

New Posts

09:00

0

Q: Sum numbers which are string

Your function must accept 2 strings which are correct numbers, summarize them as normal numbers and return a result as string without leading zeros in integer part and trailing zeros in decimal part Correct number is a string which can start with leading minus, contains only digits and can contai...

code-golf

caird coinheringaahing

13:24

@NikeDattani it is also currently pinned:

15 hours ago, by lyxal

The pld proposal is in commitment now

New Posts

0

Q: Reverse the polyglot, change the language

Task Write a polyglot in two languages that when run, outputs the language it is run in. Additionally, this program must also output the other language's name if the source code is reversed Example: Program ABC in language foo outputs foo. ABC in language bar outputs bar. CBA in language foo outp...

code-golf polyglot

caird coinheringaahing

13:40

@Adám Don't expect any ads refreshes in the first half of the year, is the response I got back from a CM

Ginger

13:59

If I had a nickel for every time I've had to compile Python 3.10 from source I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

mousetail

That's a pretty normal thing to need to do multiple times

Ginger

shame it's as slow as balls because the VM I'm compiling it on only has 1GB of RAM

whoops, I broke it

:/

mousetail

Don't do that

Ginger

the VM is not responding

New Posts

0

Q: Distance to the average of the next two prime numbers

Suppose we have a sequence \$P\$. Every element \$P_n\$ represents the distance between the \$n^{th}\$ prime number and the average of the next two prime numbers. For example, \$P_1\$ would be the distance between the first prime number (2) and the average of the next two prime numbers (3 and 5),...

code-golf sequence primes

Rydwolf Programs

14:17

@NikeDattani caching

It is now :p

(or maybe it only shows up for me?)

mathcat

that is really cool

1454 is a lot of rep on area51

Nike Dattani

@RydwolfPrograms how could caching have anything to do with it?

Rydwolf Programs

14:54

Oh true

Rydwolf Programs

16:06

→ 43 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Jacob

is it allowed to create an interpreter for an already existing language to solve a challenge if the lang was designed before the challenge was posted but is unimplemented

Rydwolf Programs

Usually yes, and highly encouraged actually

But some older questions disallow it

Ginger

^^

Jacob

i wanna do the polyglot thing in emojistack

Rydwolf Programs

Polyglot challenges may have additional notability requirements

parz

16:12

‘lo!

Jacob

well the new one

Rydwolf Programs

@parz o/

parz

So, what is the current topic of conversation?

Ginger

well, PLDI just reached commitment

Rydwolf Programs

Outdated site rules regarding languages newer than the challenge

Oh yeah ^^

parz

16:13

ok?

Ginger

@parz area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/127456/…

you should click that link and press the commit button

caird coinheringaahing

I've also realised that lyxal's original message was kinda vague, so I've gone ahead and 11'ed it

Rydwolf Programs

16:29

→ 48 messages moved to Programming Language Design and Implementation

Ginger

this is cool

~~and definitely a good idea for golfing in~~

Seggan

CMM: is this edit too extensive?

nooo @RydwolfPrograms i liked ur old pfp better

Rydwolf Programs

The ice storm is over, sorry :p

mathcat

Grywolf programs

Rydwolf Programs

Back to normal pfp until I switch to emowolf for some time

@Seggan no

PyGamer0

16:42

original rydwolf has arrived

Rydwolf Programs

I think this pfp's a little...saturated

I might darken it a bit

Nike Dattani

@RydwolfPrograms I still don't see A51 in your network profile (whether from desktop or phone). Can you check if you see A51 on my network profile? I have at least 3000 points on A51. Maybe it's just that A51 doesn't show up on network profiles when viewed by someone other than one's self.

Rydwolf Programs

I see A51 for you

pxeger

You can hide certain sites from your network profile

Rydwolf Programs

Ohhh wait that might be why it shows as gray for me

I hid a bunch of sites like four years ago

Nike Dattani

16:46

@RydwolfPrograms ok that's precisely it.

If it's grey, then it's hidden.

hyper-neutrino

rydwolf is NPSP still working? if you try starting up a second instance does it also work or does it break?

Rydwolf Programs

A second instance would work but could occasionally double post

hyper-neutrino

APL bot and Vyxal bot are both not working anymore and it seems like the format for some webpage changed because the auth part can't find a specific field/element within the response or something like that

Rydwolf Programs

Oh huh. I reimplemented NPSP in Rust after the JS one broke a while back, lemme check if it's still working

Looks like it's running fine

It also logs in fine

hyper-neutrino

hm, interesting

Ginger

16:49

Here's an interesting little thing I just came up with:

Rydwolf Programs

I used an HTML parser instead of regexp for finding fields in things, that could be what changed maybe?

Like the order of some stuff changing

Ginger

(([0...], {x % 3 == 1? "Fizz" : ""}, {x % 5 == 1? "Buzz" : ""}) map, concat) map print

I was thinking about language syntax and came up with that

Rydwolf Programs

17:24

@Ginger That's a very unusual fizzbuzz

Unless you mean == 0 or your modulo is 1-indexed

(actually no, a 1-indexed modulo would be == 3 and == 5 I think)

I think I'm gonna re-add the STATUS command to NPSP

Maybe make it do a more extensive self-test

Ginger

17:47

@RydwolfPrograms I may have done a stupid q:

Seggan

18:06

so i decided to do python style decorators

except that they can take any type (not just functions), and since functions are syntax sugar for variables in Rol, any variable assignment can be annotated

so you can do stuff like this:

@StringFromFile
val veryLongString = "long string.txt"

and then StringFromFile is like:

fun StringFromFile(file: String): String {
  return read(Path(file))
}

although i might make it that you have to explicitly mark it as decorator fun or have to do @Decorator

DLosc

@EzioMercer most regex syntax is identical across languages. the one I added would be exactly the same in absolutely any language (assuming the backslashes are properly escaped) — Seggan 23 mins ago

I'd hesitate to say absolutely any; I suspect there's some regex flavor out there that doesn't support backslashed character classes like \d. But certainly the vast majority of regex flavors would support it.

pxeger

@DLosc POSIX regex, for example

Seggan

huh

what

oh well, cant edit it now :P

(besides, it doesnt really change the point)

DLosc

Yeah, it's close enough--a lie to children, if you will

Adám

@DLosc It often bothers me that JS regexp doesn't support \pL etc.

Newly Featured Posts

18:30

7

Q: Keep elements in sequence that have a letter repeated at least 3 times

Challenge: Given the input array l with a list of strings, only keep the elements in the sequence that have a letter that's repeated at least 3 times. Like 'lessons' has 3 s letters, so it should be kept in the sequence. But, 'lesson' has only two s letters, so it should be removed. Notes: l wil...

code-golf string sequence array data-structures

DLosc

@Adám Python flavor doesn't seem to support that either. What does it do?

Adám

match characters with the character property of Letter.

The L can be any Unicode character class, or you can write p{Xy} to also specify sub-class, e.g. {Ll} specifically for Letters that are latin.

Rydwolf Programs

18:48

@Adám It does

You just need the unicode flag

And brackets to remove ambiguity

Adám

Ooh, noice.

DLosc

The thing I appreciate about JS regex (coming from Python) is that JS supports variable-length lookbehinds.

Rydwolf Programs

As cursed as it is, I like the regex literals existing

IMO regex shouldn't really be used at all in clean code, but it makes it easy to just get things working

hyper-neutrino

you mean i'm not supposed to use /^(1?[0-9]{1,2}|2([0-4][0-9]|5[0-5]))$/ to check if a number represented as a string is in range [0, 256)?

Rydwolf Programs

Of course not. You forgot to support leading zeroes.

hyper-neutrino

18:56

oh I don't really care about those cuz this is for param matching for routing URLs

I just want to only have /codepage/0 up to /codepage/255 be valid and everything else 404

Rydwolf Programs

Oh...this wasn't hypothetical....o_o

But yeah I guess that makes sense

hyper-neutrino

nope

Adám

At this rate, PLDI will hit 100% in two days. I wonder if that ever happened to a proposed site.

Rydwolf Programs

It'll slow down soon

Commitment tends to be the quicket stage from what I can tell tho, probably happened before

@DLosc Oh really?

printf 'aa+\n' | grep -o 'a+'

Grep's regex flavor doesn't support + :p

DLosc

19:16

printf 'aa+\n' | grep -o 'a\+'

Similar problems in Vim regex

It's always bothered me that Vim regex uses * without a backslash but \+ with a backslash

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Much simpler: eval(`/^${Array.from(Array(256),(x,i)=>i).join("|")}$/`)

Rydwolf Programs

19:33

@Adám [...Array(256).keys()]

Big golf

Adám

Yeah, I really don't know JS.

Rydwolf Programs

TIL you can provide a second argument to Array.from

Adám

Guess my ungolfed code was worth it.

Isn't it possible to write (a,b)=>b as a=>b=>b or something?

Rydwolf Programs

No, but we allow curried functions on CGCC which is why people do that here

a=>b=>b is a single argument function that returns another single argument function

Adám

Ah, but since JS is functional, it'll just give an array of functions rather than apply to multiple args. Got it.

Jacob

19:50

> JS is functional

Adám

I mean, it is deeply dysfunctional, but it is functional in the functional programming sense.

mousetail

20:08

Dysfunctional would be a great name for a functional esoteric language

Ginger

todo

Jacob

i’ve never really seen JS as a functional language. you can use some functional programming stuff in it but it’s closer to OOP

but i would love to be convinced otherwise since i’m a JS dev and like functional stuff

Ginger

here's Wikipedia's example "functional program" written in a language I just came up with:

[1...10] ,{(2 x) mod not} filter ,{,10 mul} map ,{sum} reduce

Rydwolf Programs

JS is typically considered multi-paradigm I think

It doesn't really commit to functional, it sorta does to OOP but its relationship with it has always been a little weird

Jacob

yeah

mousetail

20:21

JS was originally intended to be functional, then they tried to make it less functional, then they tried to make it functional again

Rydwolf Programs

It doesn't have things that I'd expect more functional languages to have, and it didn't even have map until like the late 2010s

And even then its map is cursed, along with its other methods

E.g., [1, -2, -8].reduce(Math.max) is 2

...or it would be

If there wasn't the even curseder third/fourth param

mousetail

That's not really a issue with how map/reduce works, but just how functions don't have a fixed number of arguments

Rydwolf Programs

IMO it'd make more sense to still have variadic functions, but to only pass a single arg in map/reduce

If JS had a proper selection of functions, you wouldn't need the second and third

mousetail

The second argument is incredibly useful though

Rydwolf Programs

E.g., the only time I need the second is cursed reimplementations of zip since JS stubbornly doesn't have it

mousetail

20:26

Third one not so much

Rydwolf Programs

There could always be a map_with_index method for those rare situations

hyper-neutrino

yeah having to do x => parseInt(x) instead of just parseInt is a bit annoying lol

Rydwolf Programs

I don't think I've ever used parseInt for something other than base conversion lol

mousetail

Having a seperate map with index or enumerate map would probably be a improvment, agreed

Ginger

21:00

I hereby present my most cursed creation yet: A Fibonacci program in Dysfunctional

fib(n) -> ,1,1 swaplast ,{(##$)sum} replacelast ,{,1 (#$)sub} replacefirst ,{fib} ,{(#$)} (^#)if call

if you don't like the swaplast type functions I have alternate syntax that doesn't use them

(@RydwolfPrograms you might like this)

Rydwolf Programs

Now's not a good time to distract me. I am has SE Nitro!

Ginger

:D

Rydwolf Programs

This chapter will feature a cameo from everyone's favorite ghost town, Windows Phone.

Ginger

cool

~~OLIMAR cameo when~~

@mathcat didn't know my PFP had a name

(we do a little transcript diving)

mathcat

... that was like a year ago

Ginger

21:13

(we do minor amounts of transcript inspection)

Jacob

minor

Ginger

(we do miniscule amounts of chatlog reading)

Jacob

unmeasurable quantities

could go either way

if you're implementing a language which uses a custom codepage how do you do that

AviFS

Hey guys! I just got back from a trip.

Ginger

vacation or acid? :p

AviFS

21:25

All of the above

Ginger

._.

AviFS

Mostly acid, but I had some bases, too

Ginger

⦂|

AviFS

@Ginger \⍤/

Jacob

-_-

AviFS

21:27

-

lol

Adám

OK, I think that's enough.

AviFS

Nothing's going on in the room to disrupt?

Adám

@Jacob Assuming you want to use Unicode symbols that do not match any existing code page, just provide functionality to convert between the code page and Unicode.

Jacob

hm ok

Adám

It can be built into the interpreter/compiler, or stand-alone.

AviFS

21:30

@RydwolfPrograms Doesn't everyone say it's prototype-based?

Jacob

well i'm trying to implement emojistack but not sure how since the codepage has 553 symbols

Adám

that can't fit with 1-to-1 mapping

Jacob

would it have to use 10-bit bytes or smth

AviFS

I thought that was supposed to be like a gotcha interview question. Or is that just about the fact that it's not properly OOP? Is it more multi-paradigm than any number of other industry langs?

Adám

@Jacob Or reserve 2 bytes as modifiers for an adjacent byte, giving you 3×254=762 codes.

AviFS

21:32

@Jacob You can always log256 the character count if there's no codepage.

Rydwolf Programs

@Jacob It's probably designed for UTF-8

Not very golfy but I doubt that's what it's meant for

Jacob

it has a codepage esolangs.org/wiki/EmojiStack/Codepage

just the codepage has 553 symbols

Rydwolf Programs

My recommendation would be a hamming code

AviFS

@Jacob Oh, right. I meant a 256 one.

Rydwolf Programs

Looks like it's designed for UTF-32 tho based on the footnote

AviFS

21:34

@RydwolfPrograms Isn't that a little overdone relative to what we usually do? I thought taking the log was our classic solution.

Or am I just totally missing the point of this.

esolangs.org/wiki/EmojiStack

Do they even document what all the emojis do?

Jacob

i think so

it has most of them at least

AviFS

Where?

Jacob

on that page

esolangs.org/wiki/EmojiStack

AviFS

That doesn't look like all 533 of the emojis to me.

Jacob

im going to check

AviFS

21:38

That's relevant because if in fact ≤256 are defined, as it looks to me, that sure makes life simpler.

Jacob

yeah that's what im checking now

AviFS

Alternatively, just map Vyxal's primitives to emojis and you'll get a competitive golflang :p

4

Plus, you'll get an interpreter for free

#shamelessplug

Jacob

it's only 50 commands <:-{-0>==]

that's meant to be a face

@AviFS not a bad idea lol

AviFS

XD

Jacob

i should implement emojistack in vyxal

Rydwolf Programs

21:58

@AviFS Not really classical, it only started to be allowed this year :p

DLosc

22:10

@Ginger That translates into FunStack as Plus foldl1 Times 10 map Even? filter, though 1) that errors if there aren't any even numbers in the list (but so does the JavaScript code), 2) a more idiomatic way to write it would be Sum Times 10 Even? filter, and 3) I haven't implemented filter yet.

Oh, I guess if you want to hardcode the array as numbers 1 through 10, stick IFrom1 10 on the end.

Seggan

@RydwolfPrograms *last year

LDQ: should i allow accessing uninitialized variables if they are in a higher scope?

Adám

22:30

@Seggan You mean they've been initialised in the higher scope?

Seggan

example:

var a
fun b() { return a }
a = 1
b()

should this be legal?

note this is a statically typed language

Jacob

i dont see why it shouldn't be legal

Adám

Right, that's just lexical scoping.

New Posts

0

Q: Exactly two neighbors

Given as input a list of positive integers, your task is to determine if every integer present has exactly two neighbors in the list. The neighbors of a integer \$x\$ are the distinct characters that appear next to an \$x\$ anywhere in the list. For example in the list: [1,3,4,4,3,2,1] The numb...

code-golf self-validating

user

22:59

@Seggan I don't think so

I'd feel a lot more comfortable if only initialized variables could be accessed

Perhaps there should be a way to explicitly tell the compiler that it's okay to access a there

caird coinheringaahing

@Seggan Yes

The question is, how do you resolve this:

var a
fun b() {
a = 2
return a
}
a = 1
b()

user

What's complicated about that?

Both as refer to the variable declared at the top with var a

caird coinheringaahing

It should return 2, but depending on which a takes precedence, it could return 1

user

There's only one a

caird coinheringaahing

But two assignments

Rydwolf Programs

23:02

^^

Seggan

but the variable is mutable

Jacob

um i would assume that to return 2 but

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing The a = 2 assignment happens after a = 1, so there's no reason to return 1

Seggan

@user hehe... but then mutual recursion would be impossible in Rol

caird coinheringaahing

Ah, but you're assuming good language design :P

user

23:02

lol

Seggan

you dare assume my language design abilities? :P

user

@Seggan Allow marking some variables as lazy then

Seggan

or maybe smth like kotlins lateinit where ure saying "i know you cant make sure but i promise you the variable will be initialized for any access"

user

That works too. You don't have nulls, right?

Actually, does lateinit work with primitives? There's no way to check if a variable holding a primitive has been initialized or not unless it's boxed or something

Seggan

@user i borrowed kotlins typing system

user

23:05

Cool

Seggan

@user yeah it does, it uses boxed primitives

user

Just note that since lateinit doesn't work with nullable types, you might want to support lazy variables anyway

Either through a Kotlin-like lazy delegate or properly integrated into the language

Seggan

hrm thatll need some thinking of syntax

unless i literally do lazy val x = whatever()

user

23:29

Well you could always do it like Kotlin

OCaml has let rec

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