CMC create a complete list of enforceable rules for this site in the minimum number of bytes (in english)

And most "loopholes" aren't interesting interpretations of rules that make answers more interesting

make a deterministic ruleset for this site

They're someone breaking some obvious rule that nobody thought to codify, like this

@RadvylfPrograms I'm okay with that except for the fact that we have to rely on people downvoting them

@mathcat No we don't

Well, sort of, but not really

how so

The downvotes aren't what actually makes it more invalid than not, they're just enforcement of it

Okay well I guess we still rely on that, but ^^^^^^ is evidence that we can in some capacity

And we already rely on this sort of "do what you want but take it too far and we'll downvote you" all over the place

I'd actually like to do a refresh of our loopholes. A lot of them are old. Like what % of our active users were around for code-trolling? Yet we have multiple loopholes for code-trolling. Plus it's hard to tell which answers are high scoring due to simple inertia vs. which are actually well supported by a modern consensus.

and code-trolling is no longer in use

I think the loopholes are an equal mix of "a list of things that already wouldn't be allowed, but we need to remind people of" and "a list of rules that should really be specified somewhere else"

It would probably be better to just split them into some separate consensus posts and a "list of jokes that are not funny"

shouldn't the latter be in, say, the help page?

is that even possible with se?

^^^^^^

^

^ ^^^^^

can we get an autoarrows userscript

click a message and it posts the correct number of arrows at post time

@Ginger The help page is not a great place to hash out site consensus

@thejonymyster did you mean: makina

@thejonymyster Replies are a much better option over two or three arrows

but we can't reply to multiple messages

so you want us to just reply "yes good" to messages instead of using arrows?

Some girl in my european history hid in a trash can (long story) and jumped out to startle our teacher, but instead of being startled he was just like "I marked you absent" and it was so funny

@RadvylfPrograms but i dont want to ping :o and yea ^^, ^^^

Then pay attention and post the arrows sooner :p

@RadvylfPrograms chat fast bro T_T

@RadvylfPrograms I think I got whiplash from the speed of that topic change

Unless the script also lets you click some arrows to highlight what they point to

that would own actually

well how do we handle, say, emoticons like ^_^?

_ is a word character

guess you could only check arrows with spaces or arrows next to them

@Ginger dont worry about it. it doesnt matter. thats how you handle it

But even for things like ^.^ that would be difficult to tell, nobody goes around clicking emoticon eyes anyway

And the formatting would probably be not too different

^^

handle it by pretending it doesn't exist, I like it

should be the solution in more cases tbh

So uh how did we get from subjective loop holes to arrows?

@thejonymyster Another feature: it'll auto-edit the arrow count if more messages get posted that are in the way

@mousetail loophole no allow

@RadvylfPrograms thats what i meant by "at post time"

I maintain that there should be a synchronized timestamp between the client and server, and the client sends the time the message was originally sent, so they can arrive out-of-order

...that does happen

interesting(?)

I have several times sent a message and had another message appear before it

Sure, it allows some abuse (like inserting "my dog died" before someone saying "wow that's awesome") if you mess with the JS, but it makes chat less confusing

@Ginger Yeah I know, this would prevent that

oh

whoops :p

@WheatWizard thatd be nice

The client would send when you sent the message, so even if it arrives at the server after one sent by someone else later, it could figure out that yours goes first

I think Mojang Microsoft does something like that for the MC chat reporting system

Mojang still exists y'know...

I know, but they didn't add chat reporting (at least not voluntarily)

Do we know that?

Do Mojang really seem the type to not only add a feature like this, but then not listen to the instant and overwhelming backlash from the community?

Yes

Yes

...what

1.17-1.19 were nothing but poorly planned features and failing to listen to feedback

They've been on an extremely consistent downward trend, this is no different

but minecraft was good once! and the people who made it good are the same people working on it today!

something has changed and it's not mojang

@Ginger Guess what? Mojang is owned by Stack Exchange.

Has anyone ever seen Microsoft and SE in a room together? :b

Even when it "was good" they were adding features and not listening to overwhelming backlash.

And Stack Exchange is owned by Cisco, who is owned by Westinghouse, who is owned by the Dutch East India Company

examples please

1.9 was met with a very strong backlash when it came out.

Mojang very rarely listens to feedback, even in the best of updates

(Despite the fact that 1.9 was definitely good)

@RadvylfPrograms who are owned by Google, probably

1.16 getting an extra nether biome and an equivalent to lava boats was a big surprise to me. Mojang changing their minds in response to feedback is rare.

. - .

true

i only play on education edition but its pretty similar to the real minecraft

I can't play minecraft anymore because they migrated accounts again.

education is just bedrock with some extra features and I despise bedrock

you play java?

yes, like all sane people

Bedrock is perfectly fine. Java does many things better, but everyone's tired of this stupid fight

except for me! I will die on this hill!

one of my friends has every version of minecraft available on his iPas

but that don't matter if mc just... dies

*iPad

@py3programmer you can edit messages

...and that makes you annoying, along with everyone else on that hill, being elitist for owning a $26 video game

pocket, bedrock, you name it

he has ir

*it

pocket edition (old pocket edition) is legacy console edition, which was a more-or-less exact port of java

as it should be

exactly

Uhhh...no lol

?????????

They were totally different

@RadvylfPrograms and how dare I have opinions on things

which is why my friend was not playing them anymore

And legacy console and pocket were not the same either

waste of money

huh? I thought it was

well today I learned a thing

Totally different.

Nether reactor core

My beloved :(

oh right

sorry

@RadvylfPrograms yes

but I don't want mc to die! I like it!

i couldnt care more about its death

I'm expecting that this isn't Minecraft "dying", it's just bad luck, and probably a ton of external pressure on Mojang.

i think mojang should make a new game instead :-)

In school, if you're a Minecrafter, you're totally dealt as if you're different

@thejonymyster See: Minecraft Legends

like you're doing classic stuff

@Ginger new as in new ip :P

I'm expecting one of the next few updates to be the combat update we've been waiting on, which will be a return to the 1.12–1.16 era

@thejonymyster See: Scrolls (? I forgot the exact name)

@RadvylfPrograms 1.16 was the best version of mc hands down

^

why am i agreeing with everyone today

hey and btw why is my rep on meta codegolf lower than in codegolf

forge didn't move from 1.16 for something like another two versions

1.12–1.16 was an era of polish. Every update took an outdated aspect of the game and updated it, and made it look good. If 1.20 is the combat or end updates we've been hoping for, it'll be a return to that.

and i dont think mincecraft is made by notch today

*minecraft

it is not

nope, he left

@Ginger how long ago was that?

@RadvylfPrograms yep

@thejonymyster no clue

so who said "and those who made it good are still working on it today"

Who left?

[not sic]

@RadvylfPrograms but they sure aren't going to remove the things they added post-1.16

i dont like the very concept of the deep dark

I'm really eager for ten updates from now. If datapacks and edition parity keep going in the direction they have been, we could see a game where modding is built-in and the versions are unified

I shudder to imagine microsoft trying to make modding built-in

@Seggan I actually kind of like it. The big issue was 1.18 is that the caves didn't add anything; it's just more empty space for content, with no content. The deep dark is something

"Unlock getPlayerRotation with the Ultimate Functions Pack for only $19.99!"

@Ginger Datapacks

datapacks are no good

@WheatWizard notch left

They've been steadily becoming more capable, and Mojang has expressed their intentions to make them as powerful as mods

Who's notch?

or markkus persson fyi

that'd be impressive

@RadvylfPrograms in my eyes its the other way around

how would mixins work???

@Ginger They...wouldn't?

how would CREATE work with datapacks?

That's one approach to modding a game, one very very very specific approach

a lot of the best mods (create, galacticraft, etc) involve doing things to the game that I can't imagine mojang will ever make possible with datapacks

I can

i cant use datapacks

Resource packs and data packs combined already allow for insane things

my version of minecraft is very restrictive

school issues

ig

And Bedrock's add-ons or whatever they're called with JS show that they're looking into more powerful scripting than command functions

JS?????? wow

in my opinion bedrock is much easier than java

python datapacks when

JS is more performant :p

WHAT

@Ginger yeah how are you supposed to make a planet selector with datapacks

@Ginger This should not surprise you, it's literally 20× more performant :p

@RadvylfPrograms Just you wait until 3.11 and Faster CPython q:

@Seggan well now that we know that JS is an option I have no doubt radvylf could do it easily

Speaking of Python versions, what do you think will come in python 4?

assuming it does come

I'm not sure there will ever be python 4

What makes you think there'd be a Python 4

just asking

It's nearly perfect already, I don't think there will be any changes big enough to prompt a new major version

assuming it does come

Maybe symbolic numbers as the default type, continuing Python's trend of getting rid of simpler number types :p

And a better class system

The current version is 3.10 right?

better? like how better

3.11b is in python.org

you can use metaclasses to do all sorts of crazy shit

tio now

All OOP is bad, there's always things you can find to improve

(Darth Vader sound) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

truly the words of a JS programmer

...JS is OOP lmao

(and the worst kind, too)

js is reeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaal boring

exactly, your perception of OOP is tainted by using such an awful language :b

I missed a JS class last Wednesday

the grass is greener on the Python side

Well I've also used Java and Rust

but I caught up because I already new what twas

@Ginger not wrong

Java is Object Oriented Everything

Java < JS < Rust, and that's also conveniently most-to-least-OOP

OOP means?

Object Oriented Programming

oh short forms

i hate them

...this is code golf

our whole thing is using short forms

aw shoot

You FOOL!

considers leaving codegolf

...

we talk about normal things here at The Nineteenth Byte

# OOP, 3 bytes

such as: minecraft, loopholes, up-arrow message reference notation, oop languages, datapacks, the ownership of Stack Exchange

and that's just the tip of the metaphorical iceberg

the usefulness of short forms, the references to major music videos, such and such.

> major music videos

complicated math equations,

anecdotes

this is what i see

when i join tnb

any opinions?

lots

of what?

pronunciations of lyxal

ok i couldnt hold myself

that sounds off-topic enough to go in OTTNB

i've seen it here

i think

and speaking of pronunciations of lyxal

i just did a text-to-speech with Scratch

and it's pronounced "licks-all"

@Fatalize I rarely answer in Python anymore, because a) usually someone else posts a Python answer first, and b) usually someone else posts a Python answer shorter than anything I could come up with. (Not necessarily the same person in parts a and b.) I'd rather stretch my brain by answering in a language no one else has used.

and I don't like losing

Okay everyone freeze

How can I get (or lose) exactly 1 rep?

It's complicated

Downvoting an answer's an easy way to lose 1

For gaining 1 you need to gain 2 then downvote an answer

Which involves either suggesting a (tag) edit or accepting an answer

downvoting will do

Which is literally the only reason I've got multiple tag edits :p

nice

@mathcat why

look at my rep :P

4990?

and?

well I want to get exactly 5000

which you'll have to increase by 10

mhm so now ure waiting for an upvote?

yes

done

(constantly reloading lol)

@DLosc totally agree. When I joined, I thought there'd be a lot of questions where Python can be used with, but it turns out there isn't many.

yes!

congrats

broke it

now your at 5010

but I still got a screenshot :P

but who'll see you had 5000?

only you, right?

Personally, I need 13 upvotes to get to 1000 rep

now ure back :P

follow the link and youll get a free RAM download, no viruses and you can see his rep

whyd i get pinged 2 times?

yeah right

his rep is 5010

STILL

yeah okay

yeah you see?

i put an upvote

so mathcats rep is 5010

I can now uh approve tag wiki edits I guess?

take that divisibility by 100

maybe?

@mathcat very powerful :P

ikr

yeah but 10k is awesome

ill give you the upvote back :)

hey can someone help me get to 1k?

need 13 upvotes

Don't ask for upvotes btw, while it's usually harmless, it can be construed as voter fraud if done in too large a scale

Post a couple more posts, and you'll get there organically

That's the cycle of CGCC, kids.

ow that hurt @caird

looks like discrimination again

Huh?

ok jk

What was the joke though

joke = mathcat gets 1 upvote, he gets to 5k, i want to get to 1k

hurt part = mathcat can get but i cant

The difference is that mathcat never explicitly asked for votes

@py3programmer I'm an equal opportunity disciplinarian, I will tell everyone that what they're doing is voter fraud, whether it relates to voting or not :P

They were also just one upvote away, while you're 13 away

true

anyway

Yeah, don't think we really need to continue with this

Exactly

I miss new posts, I have thoughts I want to share on WW's new meta post, but they're a bit too informal for a comment :/

I have a question: when I was browsing sandbox, i saw my rep was 860, but on codegolf it was 870.Now they're equal, but before it wasn't, why?

Caching most likely

oh i see

shouldiblamecaching.com

my laptop was bought a year back, but, umm... its not at its best :(

hey @cairdcoinheringaahing when i wrote my meta answer to @pxeger's question regarding new users, when you wrote your comment, were you @Zion mycelia adamancy?

those usernames correspond to the same user