The Nineteenth Byte

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13:00

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Rock, Paper, Scissors... But with a twist... If you don't know how to play rock, paper, scissors; rock, paper, scissors is a game that everyone knows to play and if you don't I'll eat my hat even though I don't have one. But here's a twist. This time, you are not allowed to generate random number...

thejonymyster

@NobodyNeedsNames its within /*these*/ which i believe makes it a comment

Nobody Needs Names

yah, but I remove the *, right?

mousetail

Then you can use /*//kdfjakefjkdsfj

There are varous ways to make comments hard to break

Nobody Needs Names

4000th answer to this question, hooray — Nobody Needs Names 2 mins ago

thejonymyster

and also this is only one strategy and it might not break many other programs

the fact that youre having so much fun trying to break just one program speaks to the supreme genius of this challenge :P

Nobody Needs Names

13:02

brainfuck might have a very big upper hand at not including (){} and being virtually un-error-able

mousetail

I don't think the C program is strong at all, just a demonstration that it possible even in a somewhat verbose language

@NobodyNeedsNames You need to produce a valid output too

Nobody Needs Names

@mousetail what's the output format again?

ohh

mousetail

The index of the character you want to remove in base 10, a space, then the literal value of the character

Nobody Needs Names

why the space and the byte value, ruins all the fun

mousetail

Purposefully a bit complex so you are unlikely to produce it by accident

Also it forces you to actually read the input

Nobody Needs Names

13:04

brainfuck program on the way...

thejonymyster

im excited now honestly lol

graffe

Sad that none of the top answerers are here in chat :(

thejonymyster

idk how stdin works though

Nobody Needs Names

some confusing characters with no impact ^&%^$&^@!***( {}{}}{)))( SOMEPLUSESFORTHENUMBER0ANDASPACE getinput print0 printspace outputinput

thejonymyster

@graffe im on my side account right now, i assure you i am a sock of one of the top users on the site /j

also lol if someone writes a program that doesnt take input and just guesses

... tempting myself with that one actually

mousetail

13:06

Probably won't last very long but would be very funny

Nobody Needs Names

lol yes

thejonymyster

@mousetail i mean making it last is an issue of radiation hardening it

scoring is another issue

mousetail

@thejonymyster If you produce invalid output you are eliminated. So you need to read the source code to output the correct character

thejonymyster

oh right! shoot

i was thinking it just had to be in valid form

misremembering, the rule is pretty clear

also "the victims byte" => "the victim's byte"

Nobody Needs Names

try break this brainfuck code:

https://tio.run/##SypKzMxLK03O/v@fS1lfn0tfi6tIhYtLS1NBo7a6tlobCqLttO20QQiMIQSUhFFwGsFAsLi4kIVR2agcNB4SlwurvLa2DRrQjbUDAz0IF87Uy1DOUNDR09JXCElNzsjLT8pJTElV8EstSy1ScMlMLf7/vxgA

and try not to target brainfuck specifically

mousetail

13:12

@NobodyNeedsNames Just remove the first [ or ], would work for many other languages too

thejonymyster

already broken, two spaces in the output instead of one :P

Nobody Needs Names

most languages use () or {} right?

@thejonymyster wait really?

@thejonymyster where?

thejonymyster

...in the output

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames A solid program could probaly look for all 3 types (){}[]

thejonymyster

should be an easy fix though

Nobody Needs Names

13:14

@thejonymyster in the output, where?

thejonymyster

...wait wtf

mousetail

Seems there is a NULL byte in the output

thejonymyster

ahh

thought it was a space

Nobody Needs Names

one quick fix later... tio.run/##SypKzMxLK03O/…

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames A program targeting C would probably take a few attempts at that, nicely done

Nobody Needs Names

13:15

@mousetail what makes it want to take out the "[" or "]" especially instead of the "(){}" that is way before in the program ~~and seem stupid~~?

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames Maybe it looks for middle values first since most programs have the most useful stuff in the middle

thejonymyster

or maybe itd check which ones are actually matching lol (that would be easy to dodge too though)

Nobody Needs Names

hmm, then we can add more rubbish in the middle

*/r)({}h#,.[]/ are all suspicious characters but only 4 matter, and they are in the very middle

thejonymyster

bf has the advantage of having a lot of characters which are comments for free, but the disadvantage that you cant really do anything if you lose one of your actual characters

Nobody Needs Names

@thejonymyster of course: main(){} except it is actually brainfuck

@thejonymyster yes indeed

thejonymyster

13:18

picking interesting languages for this would also be fun

imagining a hexagony answer designed to survive shrinking hexagon sizes xd

mousetail

I hope people will try competing even in less competitive languages for fun

Nobody Needs Names

revised: tio.run/…

@thejonymyster yah lol

@thejonymyster why? if you take out like 20% of the source code there's no need to "design" to survive shrinking hex sizes

@mousetail me too, and ~~let's hope there are some submissions in Malbalge or how is that spelled~~

Hi PyGamer

BTW gotta go man, just ping me bunches and I'll be back in 30 minutes

PyGamer0

@NobodyNeedsNames hi

this is the last time i post this message:

in flax, Jul 24 at 15:57, by PyGamer0

feebdcakc?

thejonymyster

suggestion: you should totally steal it from vyxal

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster done

thejonymyster

13:25

lol

what's the difference between these?
- χ all
- ψ any and all

PyGamer0

jelly has them

thejonymyster

idk jelly :P

lyxal

> Any and all; return 0 if z is empty, or contains a falsey value when flattened, else 1.

> All; return 0 if z contains a falsey value, else 1.

thejonymyster

ah i get it

ty

json decode but no json encode?

lyxal

useful for challenges where json is the input format

@thejonymyster you can blame seggan for that

in Vyxal, May 5 at 16:38, by Steffan

!!/issue Add JSON parse element Useful for JSON-related challenges. Already exists in Jyxal. Maybe make it øJ for parity with Jyxal element request difficulty: average enhancement

we don't have a json encode

thejonymyster

13:31

right but why not the other way around :P

lyxal

because the amount of challenges where you need to output json are few

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster added

although it doesnt really make sense for a language without any strings

thejonymyster

@lyxal yes but its also sort of a thing where youd be doing a challenge where you do need it and going like "why does it have one way but not the other"

but yea fair i didnt consider that

lyxal

@Seggan explain yourself for I am doing a horrible job

thejonymyster

@PyGamer0 would i use œt if i wanted split at specific indices based on the index numbers themselves?

or o for split at occurrences

PyGamer0

13:34

@thejonymyster i think i coped that from jelly, i think its "split a list at the index before the truthy indices of another list"

thejonymyster

oh hm

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster can you give an example?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 unless you mean "Partition y after truthy indices of x. (k)", you got it elsewhere :p

thejonymyster

i have this magic number list [3,5,19], and lists X that i need to split at those specific indices

lyxal

oop found the jelly version

Split list x at occurrences of y.

no wait

that's not it

Yeah Jelly don't indice split

thejonymyster

13:36

so if it were a string, i need "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuv" to become "abc", "de", "fghijklmnopqrst", "uv" or something to that effect

PyGamer0

@thejonymyster huh i should add that that sounds useful

thejonymyster

yeah, it was pissin me off that js didnt have it when i needed it lol

though tbf that time it could have just been a "split at indices where..."

PyGamer0

ok its now assigned to k

thejonymyster

ok

what character is that omg

lyxal

curved k by the looks of it

I thinl

PyGamer0

13:38

ascii k

lol

thejonymyster

oh wtf is that just how it looks in code form? weird

(on chat anyway)

what's cartesian power?

wait i can google that gfsdg

user

@lyxal Yes

Maybe just plain parentheses would be better than curly braces

lyxal

@thejonymyster I think we both thought it was ⲕ

mousetail

@thejonymyster I'm guessing it's a cartesian product only with N copies of the same thing

thejonymyster

@lyxal yeah

lyxal

13:40

thejonymyster

@mousetail no i was just looking for exponentiation

why is it so far from the other math ops lol

dumb idea: sign preserving exponentiation

(-2)^3 = -8

idk if thats useful LOL im just brainstrorming

reversed concat is fun

lyxal

@thejonymyster you might be interested in this little list of core functions a golfing language should probably have

and by little, I mean 340 things I stole from a multitude of languages used on cgcc

thejonymyster

yes lol

not drooling and crying emote

@PyGamer0 you have capitals and smalls, do you have "both"s

for letters i mean lol

also [a-zA-Z0-9_] and [a-zA-Z0-9] tends to come up maybe

i wish hax were here

but theres nohaxjustradvylf hi lol

lyxal

yeah gosh dang it nohaxjustradvylf

we never get to see hax anymore :(

it's been years, is hax even still alive?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

I actually deprecated hax; they've been replaced by me as of version 1.1.7

thejonymyster

13:48

i used to be a hacker like you but then i took a 90s computer monitor to the head

alt: noflaxjustradvylf

NoHaxJustRadvylf

For LDW, I'm working on RTO right now, but I've got a ton of ideas for future languages to dorp hints about

thejonymyster

i should get back to work on my language but everything suuuuucks :D

@NoHaxJustRadvylf please do dorp hints im very curious in the things you make

NoHaxJustRadvylf

E.g., I'm working on a Rust library which will contain hundreds of common golfing language operators, which I can use to make a normal SBCS golfing language, catstruct, something new (:o), all at once

thejonymyster

ah smart

lyxal

CMP: Which do y'all think will be finished first? Radvylf's Rust library or vyxal 3?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

13:51

It'll also handle arbitrary precision numbers and infinite lists, two things I've wanted for my next golfing lang for ages but totally couldn't be bothered to do in JS

thejonymyster

oh that reminds me shouldnt we index version numbers at 0

plus it means anything prerelease would be negative

NoHaxJustRadvylf

@lyxal I'm gonna guess my Rust library, since I'm guaranteed to get bored of RTO within a week and start on it :p

@thejonymyster Usually we do, right?

lyxal

> finished

thejonymyster

no i mean like

NoHaxJustRadvylf

0.x.x for pre-final-release

thejonymyster

13:53

ok fair yea

im used to games which keep getting releases idk how it works in other software

NoHaxJustRadvylf

@lyxal Yeah but once I start on a new project, this being summer and me having no life, I can usually grind it out in like a week of 8 hour days (see Trianguish :p)

thejonymyster

also i think this is how we should do version numbers

lyxal

@thejonymyster I use 0.x.x for the testing/progress builds

NoHaxJustRadvylf

I don't version anything because I usually either am actively writing it, haven't touched it in three years, or have three separate and slightly different releases of it in different places

E.g., rSNBATWPL, which has minor variations between the NPM, GitHub, and downloaded-on-my-laptop copies :p

Nobody Needs Names

@PyGamer0 do you have all the math constants?

mousetail

13:56

@NoHaxJustRadvylf That seems like a good reason to use versioning

NoHaxJustRadvylf

@mousetail That would be a huge pain for very little real improvement

user

@lyxal A fellow Zerover user, I see :P

@NoHaxJustRadvylf You can automate it

lyxal

@user laughs in v0.0.0

Nobody Needs Names

@NoHaxJustRadvylf I suggest you version it every month, version 2022August or something

user

@lyxal Yeah I've kinda lost my motivation to do much right now but I promise I'll pick it up again in a couple weeks

lyxal

13:58

@NoHaxJustRadvylf NPM should have whatever your latest release was, and github should have whatever commit you're working on (as should the laptop version) unless of course you don't actually push changes regularly in which case start pushing more often

NoHaxJustRadvylf

@NobodyNeedsNames That would be really really useless since I usually finish a project in way less than a month, meaning there'd be only a single version, and/or take year long breaks halfway through

@lyxal I don't git

Github is my google drive

lyxal

@user the scala part is only half the battle - I'm more talking about the painful process of choosing what does what

NoHaxJustRadvylf

It's just so I have a way to share stuff with people

mousetail

@NoHaxJustRadvylf There is your problem

lyxal

^

mousetail

13:59

Much easier to version in git

lyxal

get github desktop at least

user

@NoHaxJustRadvylf It amazes me that you can make such good software while managing it so horribly

7

lyxal

^

NoHaxJustRadvylf

I know I should use Git, but a) it's a pain on a Chromebook and b) I don't really see much real gain from it

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