The Nineteenth Byte

NoHaxJustRadvylf

12:04 AM

@emanresuA x=>10*17**x

wait no

that's not how numbers work

emanresu A

lol

lyxal

Oh wait the challenge is to output the nth screaming number?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

yea

emanresu A

Or, sequence standard

lyxal

Vyxal: \a*H

Literally repeat the letter a input times and to hexadecimal

Because who needs complicated base maths or exponents amiright?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

12:08 AM

JS: g=function*(x=0){yield x=x*16+10;yield*g(x)}

Quite possibly the first time anyone's done the infinite list option in JS for hopefully obvious reasons :p

hyper-neutrino

Jelly, 4 bytes: ⁵ẋḅ⁴ (Try It Online!)

no base 16 built-in rip

lambda x:int("A"*x,16) in python is probably the most straightforward, f=lambda x:f(x-1)*16+10if x else 0 works too, or you could do the following for the infinite version

x=0
while 1:print(x:=x*16+10)

user

@Bubbler Python: lambda n:eval("0x"+"A"*n) :P

Oh wait int exists

New Posts

12:31 AM

1

Q: Anti-divisors of a number

Given a positive integer n, output all of its anti-divisors in any order. From OEIS A006272: Anti-divisors are the numbers that do not divide a number by the largest possible margin. E.g. 20 has anti-divisors 3, 8 and 13. An alternative name for anti-divisor is unbiased non-divisors. In other w...

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: The Code Golf Chess Invitational

NoHaxJustRadvylf

1:18 AM

Well I'm smart

I changed the SSH port of the RTO server, but not the firewall settings

So now I have to walk all the way to the server to fix it :|

Steffan

1:37 AM

@hyper-neutrino H is hexadecimal

Oh, I thought that was Vyxal :P

Vyxal, 4 bytes: \A*H

lyxal

2 hours ago, by lyxal

Vyxal: \a*H

Steffan

PyGamer0

3:14 AM

@NoHaxJustRadvylf is SOCK² working again?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

Yep, not sure why it wasn't working at the end of last school year, but it's running smoothly again now.

PyGamer0

oh ok, how do you use it in school?

NoHaxJustRadvylf

It's a script that runs on my laptop, which tunnels everything through a domain name controlled by me, which I was able to get unblocked since I also use it for school stuff

It still has some limitations though. For some reason, whenever a large (or even faierly low) volume of blocked traffic has to be routed through the tunnel, it starts to get throttled, and pretty qucikly the connections start getting soft-closed immediately after opening (and no more data goes through them). I'm planning on doing some experimentation to figure out why this is and how to circumvent it, and if I can find a way, I might try to sell it to people at my school :p

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Divisor of a string Challenge Given a string \$S\$, a divisor of the string \$S\$ is when there exists a number \$a\$ so when we write the string \$a\$ times we get the string \$S\$. For example, the string abcd is a divisor of the string abcdabcd Your challenge is, given the string \$S\$, output...

emanresu A

4:15 AM

_ cy765c-x-x

Is my cat trying to hax me?

lyxal

cat named back lol

graffe

4:42 AM

If I toss a fair coin repeatedly, is the expected first time I get more heads than tails 3?

emanresu A

The expected time is IIRC infinite

Jo King

5:01 AM

given that you could always keep flipping tails, expected would be infinite yeah. Average time would be somewhere between 1 and 2?

Bubbler

How is average different from expected?

Jo King

i guess i'm going by the definition of Average vs Expected time complexity, where expected is using the worst case input

Bubbler

Expected does not use the worst case input, worst case time complexity does

Jo King

worst case is worst input + the worst random choices of the algorithm itself

expected is worst input + average algorithm choices, at least by what i remember

admittedly, the word "expected" doesn't really jive with that definition, so maybe i'm wrong

Bubbler

I haven't heard of such a distinction

Jo King

5:12 AM

e.g bogosort worst case complexity would be infinite, expected would be n!

all i can find to back me up is one quora article, so i guess disregard all that

Jo King

5:26 AM

anyway, the moral of the story is that the original question was phrased badly

Bubbler

From wikipedia:

> In probability theory, the expected value (also called expectation, expectancy, mathematical expectation, mean, average, or first moment)...

Jo King

yup, probably should have used the probability definition rather than trying to crowbar in my misremembered complexity one

emanresu A

7:36 AM

Perhaps LDW

Zion mycelia adamancy

7:52 AM

RIP, the SE app no longer works for push notifications. This might be the end of me using it :/

graffe

Morning all

Unrelated String

f

graffe

@Bubbler there is different vocab for expected running time which is normally averaged over randomness in the algorithm and average case running time which is averaged over random inputs

Bubbler

ye true

graffe

8:15 AM

Does anyone here understand rust enough to tell what strategy is being used here? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/250862/108721

I am guessing it's not obvious otherwise someone would have reimplemented it in another language already

But maybe it is to a rust reader?

Bubbler

I do rust but I have no idea what it does

except that it does implement some kind of strategy and it doesn't cheat

graffe

Thanks. The function get_order must determine which agent to choose

But I can't tell what values it is computing

lyxal

8:31 AM

@Zionmyceliaadamancy really? It was working for me earlier today

graffe

How long shall I wait before posting codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25030/108721 ?

I worry it will be ignored while my other question is "live"

lyxal

At least 6 more days - that'll make it a week of being sandboxed

graffe

@lyxal that sounds religious :)

Bubbler

It is better to wait more before posting similar themed questions

People get tired of something real quick

graffe

@Bubbler yes I thought so

lyxal

8:36 AM

@graffe It's not religious - it's the standard recommended waiting time

graffe

@lyxal that still sounds religious :)

Sorry, I am just being silly

lyxal

Nov 9, 2021 at 8:31, by Bubbler

We're well aware that sandbox feedback doesn't come often, so we recommend to leave there for at least one week and ask in chat multiple times

The sacred texts!

graffe

I do hope someone can work out what the leading answer is doing though

@lyxal :)

@lyxal can you read rust?

lyxal

I sure can't

graffe

:(

Bubbler

8:41 AM

Being able to read a language and being able to catch the intentions are two different things

graffe

I need a rust to English translator

Bubbler

I can mechanically translate for you but none of us will be able to understand that lol

graffe

@Bubbler that would be great! Yes please

Why do you feel we have no chance understanding it?

Zion mycelia adamancy

@lyxal It shows me notifications after I open the app, but doesn't buzz my phone or anything

lyxal

That ping came through as a notification for me

Sounds like an iOS problem

Bubbler

8:48 AM

@graffe (actually I can't, I have work to do)

graffe

@Bubbler understood

Aiden Chow

ayo im top 1 for weekly rep ranking, not much of a flex but ill take it lmao

emanresu A

Nice :P

Wheat Wizard

2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Polyglot quiz code-golfcops-and-robberspolyglot In this challenge as a cop you will choose two programming languages A and B, as well as a non-empty string S. You are then going to write 4 programs: A program which outputs exactly S when run in both A and B. A program which outputs S in A but n...

Posting later today.

Feedback would be appreciated.

graffe

@WheatWizard could you add an example?

mathcat

9:17 AM

I'm back for an arbitrary amount of time

Holidays, Free time and Wifi don't usually go together

Especially holidays and free time

lyxal

@mathcat hi back for an arbitrary amount of time, I'm lyxal

Nice to meet you.

graffe

@mathcat hello!

Zion mycelia adamancy

9:49 AM

@mathcat Aren't holidays basically entirely free time?

mathcat

10:55 AM

Not these kind of holidays :P

PyGamer0

@mathcat hello chamtat

mathcat

hi all

My holidays were 70% visiting relatives, 20% sleeping, 7% percent visiting stuff and 3% free time

Also wifi is really hard to get here, I always have to sneak off to my dad's bedroom and turn his mobile's hotspot on

Unrelated String

f

lyxal

11:19 AM

Yikes

Understandable, but yikes

user

11:32 AM

Visiting relatives is the worst

Protip: See an awful crime happen, go into witness protection

No more relatives :p

lyxal

That leaves too much to chance though

What you gotta do is get involved enough in organised crime and then snitch

user

—-And if the bad guys find you, you get a forever vacation with 100% sleep—-

@lyxal ah yeah good idea. Best become an underboss first

lyxal

Exactly. It's guaranteed witsec

@user it's a win win. No more relatives, and the chance of book deals, movie rights and more!

user

@lyxal only problem is all your friends and family are gonna be like “yo tony it’s your favorite nephew can i get a job?” Goddamn nepotism. Ruining crime

mousetail

Nepotism: The Mafia's only weakness

5

lyxal

11:44 AM

@user that's easily fixed. Steal their limbs so they can't work at the limb stealing factory.

Duh

user

Genius

As a plus, you won’t get invited to family gatherings anymore

emanresu A

12:03 PM

Is LDW?

GingerBot

Hey hey hey

I am currently very sick right now with some virus or something

but I have vowed to not let it stop me from LDW

actually lemme just

user

Your bot has a virus? Or do you, Ginger, have an actual virus?

GingerBot

Welcome to the fifth Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.

7

me

user

If it’s the latter hope you get well soon

GingerBot

my human body has a human virus

Unrelated String

12:06 PM

it would be hilarious if the bot had an unknown virus with mild symptoms

GingerBot

they aint mild

Unrelated String

like in an hour from now it just starts posting indonesian gambling spam

user

It’s a virus that causes self awareness, so the bot posts about having that self awareness virus

GingerBot

well I hereby decree ldw to have started

now lemme go drink some Virus Suppressing Fluid™ and cry internally

user

I was thinking about an APL except you don’t have operators and functions are first class. It’d be LTR and to pass a function to another function you’d use braces. Opinions?

Oh, and lists use [,]

lyxal

12:10 PM

so no things like reduce?

user

You do have reduce

It’s just that it’s not a special operator, it’s just a function

lyxal

that's an operator though isn't it?

oh

user

It’d kinda not be an apl anymore tbh

lyxal

so {+}/[1,2,3,4] for reduce?

user

Flip the operands but yes

And unary functions will be postfix because ltr

lyxal

12:13 PM

how would something like ⍨ work?

[1,2,3] {{-}⍨} 1 would be equivalent to 1 -⍨ 1 2 3?

Nobody Needs Names

@GingerBot lol, i thought it was 12 hours before so i didn't bother to look until now...

but i'm hopefully not too late

wait, are the messages from gingerbot auto-generated or from ginger?

lyxal

from ginger

Nobody Needs Names

ok

lyxal

account access issues

what they really need to do at the unicode consortium is make a lowercase-i with an additional overdot

Nobody Needs Names

@lyxal he cant access his own?

lyxal

12:20 PM

something about being locked out of a raspberry pi which has the og account

@GingerBot why is it again that you're a bot and not a human?

mousetail

Maybe humans and bots are not so different after all

Nobody Needs Names

lol

any ideas on this(github.com/TvoozMagnificent/Sun-Sip)?

lyxal

@mousetail well if there's one thing about bots is that they'll live forever, and that I have my short sad life left (and that's what they're counting on).

mousetail

@lyxal Not the bots I build. Usually I give up on them rather quickly

Nobody Needs Names

And, 50+ rep bounty for non-trivial Hello World of Mario37(github.com/TvoozMagnificent/Mario37).

@mousetail lol, sounds real

lyxal

12:23 PM

@mousetail the bots I'm thinking of really love to test

Nobody Needs Names

screw language design workshop, let's make a sick bot contest

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames That was basically the idea behind this codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25031/91213

Nobody Needs Names

lol

I would say multi-language koth's land up bad cuz (length) 100 is a little too much already for python but 100 is like a no-go for c++ (i guess) — Nobody Needs Names 28 secs ago

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames Radiation hardened python is a lot longer though

Nobody Needs Names

well, i bet there's no c++ program (<100 char) that can intelligently destroy a python program like

#random stuff blahblah
1+1+1 # yay
def actual_function():input();print(1) #just a random 2nd letter
# more characters confusing
""+""+""

without using random (and without hardcoding obviously)

and the python program is going to destroy the c++ program unless there is a few blank lines up front

mousetail

12:36 PM

A C program could easily defeat that, just remove the middle ( character

Nobody Needs Names

how?

I can add more "(" characters in string literals and comments, sure :-)

mousetail

I doubt C would be competetive but that's just because it's hard to radiation harden in the first place

The goal is to encourage people to use the languages that are good for the task

Nobody Needs Names

how long is the C program to print a character?

lets say c++

66 characters

mousetail

Yea C++ couldn't compete but my goal isn't to make every language competetive

Nobody Needs Names

how'd you expect to take input, compute something sensible, and output it in about 40 characters? (let's not even think about radiation hardening)

mousetail

12:38 PM

Writing a single character in C including main(){} is 20 characters in C

Nobody Needs Names

@mousetail if that's the case, I'll do a python koth instead

mousetail

Nobody is stopping you

Nobody Needs Names

just advice

or you might want a more flexible bound

mousetail

A flexible bound would break the challange

there is a huge advantage in just being as long as possible

Just put gigabytes of comments on each side

Nobody Needs Names

i mean

flexible as in

mousetail

12:40 PM

There needs to be a limit and no way I can evaluate a fair limit for every language

If I allow any

Nobody Needs Names

different bounds for different programs

mousetail

Wouldn't work

There is still a advantage to being long since you have more bytes to lose

Nobody Needs Names

e.g. 3 times the length a minimal hello world program would take

mousetail

Seems really hard to enforce

Unrelated String

allowing huge programs could incentivize sophisticated ways of picking characters to remove but that would shift things away from actually writing radiation-hardened code and probably also end up making the execution time limit way more relevant than it should be

Nobody Needs Names

12:42 PM

or, you can allow for a starting part and an ending part of an program that cannot be broken and must not make the program invincible

Unrelated String

yeah there's no sensible way of automatically tailoring bounds by language lol

Nobody Needs Names

for instance, c++ languages can start with
"
#include <iostream>
int main() {
"

and doesn't count towards the byte count; but you can't remove any of those letters with a program

thejonymyster

sounds hacky :P

Nobody Needs Names

(because else any language that needs something at the very front would fail instantly

thejonymyster

theres way too many languages [citation needed] to come up with a brand new set of standard rules for them all jsut for one challenge

Nobody Needs Names

12:44 PM

@thejonymyster true kinds

kinda i mean

thejonymyster

like think of how long the question itself would be if all the special cases were listed

Nobody Needs Names

lol

i would say koth's shouldn't be multi-language esp. in this case

but Nobody is stopping you (no pun intended from my username)

mousetail

It's meant to be a contest between languages

thejonymyster

idk it could be interesting :P we should keep trying to come up with multi lang koths that work

(not that this cant be one)

Nobody Needs Names

@mousetail ok good then

thejonymyster

12:46 PM

@mousetail insert that quote about how competition isnt between langs except yes it is

mousetail

@thejonymyster You can override that for a individual challenge though right?

Languages are ranked separately is just the default

GingerBot

@lyxal I'm locked out of my main account for reasons

thejonymyster

@mousetail oh absolutely, maybe i should actually grab the message instead of vaguely referencing it

GingerBot

so, TREQUEL

mousetail

Anyway, I'm interested to hear others opinions. Would this be a interesting multi lang KOTH or would it work better using only a single language

Nobody Needs Names

12:49 PM

@mousetail I would like to try it ~~and see it fail~~

thejonymyster

Jun 27 at 17:17, by DLosc

I dunno... anytime a question about scoring comes up, I keep coming back to, "Are we comparing scores across different languages or not?" And the answer always seems to be "No, definitely not. But also yes."

there lol

graffe

When is the busiest time of day here on a Thursday? Is that easy to find out?

By some coding cleverness :)

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames A 112 bytes valid C solution:

main(i){char n[256];for(gets(&n);i<256;i++){if(n[i]==')'){printf("%s %c",i,n[i]);exit(0);}}printf("0 %c",n[0]);}

Allows for a 2:1 cruft to useful code ratio

thejonymyster

i imagine parentheses are pretty vulnerable

Nobody Needs Names

is there a C solution that doesn't break when I remove the second letter?

mousetail

12:55 PM

You can put a ton of parenthesis inside comments to confuse parsing code

thejonymyster

true lol

@NobodyNeedsNames idk, but do you want to write an answer which can only break C answers :P

mousetail

@NobodyNeedsNames Just put a comment at the start

Nobody Needs Names

if I remove the first letter, many similar languages will fail

thejonymyster

i'd be curious to see how languages like a pear tree and incident would fare lol

Nobody Needs Names

@mousetail remove the first letter that is not /, space, newline, or tab

@thejonymyster lol

mousetail

12:57 PM

/* ()))) main(i){*/main(i){/*char*/char n[256];/*)))*/for(gets(&n);i<256;i++){if(n[i]==')'){printf("%s %c",i,n[i]);exit(0);}}printf("0 %c",n[0]);}

thejonymyster

@NobodyNeedsNames that would be a possible strategy yeah

GingerBot

what exactly are yall discussiing? I missed a bit

thejonymyster

i think the challenge could work since you dont have to worry so much about being absolutely radiation hardened all over, only outsmarting the other programs :P

mousetail

2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Radiation Hardening Koth king-of-the-hill radiation-hardening The goal of radiation hardening is to make a program still work after you remove a byte. However, what if a skilled competitor is purposefully trying to mess with you? In this game, each bot will take turns removing one character from ...

Nobody Needs Names

does it work? is

/ ())))...

valid syntax?

2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

A better Hexagony template code-golf ascii-art hexagonal-grid We once made a Hexagony template without actually knowing it. But after a bit of experience with Hexagony, it becomes apparent that it is not enough; sometimes the source code is too short for the given hexagon, and you get totally une...

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